Judiciary Committee Hearing, Jan 19

how many will go thats what i would like to know and can drive their but could use other to drive with but you will have to ride in the back seat my car door is broke

KISS i will be their as soon as we no were to meet dont have gas but i fell i must go

We voted to grow our own medicine. That's a major argument imo.

We also voted to allow caregivers to provide for up to 5 patients.

We all understood that. Kuipers is a complete dick head.

.

netb.

bfeq

How does this affect us. I read it as doing away with Federal Drug Schedules for Michigan.

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2009-2010/jointresolutionintrodu...

04307'09 DKH SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION K
SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION K
SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION K
August 27, 2009, Introduced by Senators KUIPERS, CROPSEY and BROWN and referred to the
Committee on Health Policy.
A joint resolution proposing an amendment to the state
constitution of 1963, by adding section 28 to article I, to provide
a right to independent health care.
Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the
state of Michigan, That the following amendment to the state
constitution of 1963, to provide a right to independent health
care, is proposed, agreed to, and submitted to the people of the
state:
1 ARTICLE I
2 SEC. 28. (1) EVERY PERSON HAS A RIGHT TO PROVIDE FOR HIS OR
3 HER OWN HEALTH CARE.
4 (2) A FEDERAL LAW OR RULE SHALL NOT COMPEL, DIRECTLY OR
2
04307'09 DKH
INDIRECTLY, ANY PERSON, EMPLOYER, 1 OR HEALTH CARE PROVIDER TO
2 PARTICIPATE IN ANY HEALTH CARE SYSTEM.
3 (3) A PERSON OR EMPLOYER MAY PAY DIRECTLY FOR LAWFUL HEALTH
4 CARE SERVICES AND SHALL NOT BE REQUIRED TO PAY PENALTIES OR FINES
5 FOR PAYING DIRECTLY FOR LAWFUL HEALTH CARE SERVICES. A HEALTH CARE
6 PROVIDER MAY ACCEPT DIRECT PAYMENT FOR LAWFUL HEALTH CARE SERVICES
7 PROVIDED AND SHALL NOT BE REQUIRED TO PAY PENALTIES OR FINES FOR
8 ACCEPTING DIRECT PAYMENT FROM A PERSON OR EMPLOYER FOR LAWFUL
9 HEALTH CARE SERVICES.
10 (4) SUBJECT TO REASONABLE AND NECESSARY RULES AND LAWS THAT DO
11 NOT SUBSTANTIALLY LIMIT A PERSON'S OR EMPLOYER'S OPTIONS, THE
12 PURCHASE OR SALE OF HEALTH INSURANCE OR COVERAGE IN PRIVATE HEALTH
13 CARE SYSTEMS SHALL NOT BE PROHIBITED BY FEDERAL LAW OR RULE.
14 (5) THIS SECTION DOES NOT DO ANY OF THE FOLLOWING:
15 (A) AFFECT WHICH HEALTH CARE SERVICES A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER
16 IS REQUIRED TO PERFORM OR PROVIDE.
17 (B) AFFECT WHICH HEALTH CARE SERVICES ARE PERMITTED BY LAW.
18 (C) PROHIBIT CARE PROVIDED PURSUANT TO, OR PROHIBIT
19 PARTICIPATION UNDER, WORKER'S COMPENSATION LAW OR AUTOMOBILE NO20
FAULT LAW.
21 (D) AFFECT LAWS OR RULES IN EFFECT AS OF JANUARY 1, 2009.
22 (E) AFFECT THE TERMS OR CONDITIONS OF ANY HEALTH CARE SYSTEM
23 TO THE EXTENT THAT THOSE TERMS AND CONDITIONS DO NOT HAVE THE
24 EFFECT OF PUNISHING A PERSON OR EMPLOYER FOR PAYING DIRECTLY FOR
25 LAWFUL HEALTH CARE SERVICES OR A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR ACCEPTING
26 DIRECT PAYMENT FROM A PERSON OR EMPLOYER FOR LAWFUL HEALTH CARE
27 SERVICES.
3
04307'09 Final Page DKH
1 (6) AS USED IN THIS SECTION:
2 (A) "COMPEL" INCLUDES PENALTIES OR FINES.
3 (B) "DIRECT PAYMENT" AND "PAY DIRECTLY" MEAN PAYMENT FOR
4 LAWFUL HEALTH CARE SERVICES WITHOUT A PUBLIC OR PRIVATE THIRD
5 PARTY, NOT INCLUDING AN EMPLOYER, PAYING FOR ANY PORTION OF THE
6 SERVICE.
7 (C) "HEALTH CARE SYSTEM" MEANS ANY PUBLIC OR PRIVATE ENTITY
8 WHOSE FUNCTION OR PURPOSE IS THE MANAGEMENT OF, PROCESSING OF,
9 ENROLLMENT OF INDIVIDUALS FOR, OR PAYMENT FOR, IN FULL OR PART,
10 HEALTH CARE SERVICES, HEALTH CARE DATA, OR HEALTH CARE INFORMATION
11 FOR ITS PARTICIPANTS.
12 (D) "LAWFUL HEALTH CARE SERVICES" MEANS ANY HEALTH-RELATED
13 SERVICE OR TREATMENT, TO THE EXTENT THAT THE SERVICE OR TREATMENT
14 IS PERMITTED OR NOT PROHIBITED BY LAW, RULE, OR REGULATION, THAT
15 MAY BE PROVIDED BY PERSONS OR BUSINESSES OTHERWISE PERMITTED TO
16 OFFER THOSE SERVICES OR TREATMENTS.
17 (E) "PENALTIES OR FINES" MEANS ANY CRIMINAL OR CIVIL PENALTY,
18 FINE, TAX, SALARY OR WAGE WITHHOLDING, SURCHARGE, OR ANY NAMED FEE
19 WITH A SIMILAR EFFECT ESTABLISHED BY LAW OR RULE BY A GOVERNMENT20
ESTABLISHED, -CREATED, OR -CONTROLLED AGENCY, THAT IS USED TO
21 PUNISH OR DISCOURAGE THE EXERCISE OF RIGHTS PROTECTED UNDER THIS
22 SECTION.
23 Resolved further, That the foregoing amendment shall be
24 submitted to the people of the state at the next general election
25 in the manner provided by law.

Back when kuipers first introduced his bills, i did a back search for the last 6 years of all of Kuipers donations he received.

Many from the pharma industry and a few from nursuries.

I would have to attempt to dig these back up from this bottomless pit of posts we call a forum.

But in general,

Donations from a pharmacists group
Donations from pfizer
Donations from a couple other lobbying groups based in those areas.

He himself will only profit in the form of huge donations from those companies and lobbying groups for his run for national office. Thank god Kuipers is restricted by term limits.

just got off the phone with his office the bill #s for this issue are SB 616'09 SB617'09 SB618'09 you can go to michigan legislature and read these to see what kuipers is proposing for OUR community. this should give someone a little fire power and insite to what will be said by kuipers.

These bills are in fact "dead men walking."

This is about scoring points w/ the conservative base, the opening salvo of the 2010 election season.

Medical marijuana is simply an all too convenient pawn in their political machinations.

Just because these bills have zero chance of passing, doesn't mean we can ignore them The prohibitionists have done the math and believe they can gain more by appeasing their base than it will cost them by antagonizing our community. A strong show next Tuesday will show otherwise and could save us a lot of grief in the future.

Senator Kuiper's does have family, social & professional ties to the nursery & plant industry. So does every other dutchman in this part of the state, including me.

I believe that Senator Kuipers has worked &/or held management positions in the past at nursery &/or landscaping firms.

When we met w/ Senator Kuipers he clearly stated that he currently owns no interest in any nursery or related business nor would he personally benefit financially if his bills were enacted into law.

I am unaware of anything other than those particulars that would suggest the Senator has acted in an illegal or unethical manner, at least as regards conflicts on this particular issue.

Senator Kuipers has his eye on the U.S. House seat that will open when Peter Hoeskstra makes his run for governor. If in fact, as is suspected, Senator Kuipers' motivation for pushing these bills is to make political hay w/ his conservative base and win next August's primary, then this is most likely only the first of many meetings, hearings and media hoopla's on medical marijuana. We need to pace ourselves so that we don't burn out or use up all our energy & resources in the first burst.

This is an open meeting, anyone may give testimony, nobody has to have their comments pre-screened, none of our community leaders has any right to ask our members to do that. Your testimony is a matter of personal conscience and my advice on this matter is only that, advice. Advice based on years of experience and in consultation w/ political experts at the ACLU, MPP, ASA & attorneys. But still, advice and not official MMMA marching orders.

Your time will be limited. So be brief and be on point.

Stick to one or at most 2, key points. Your message will have much more impact if you repeat one or two simple talking points several times rather than try to cover too much ground or get into too much detail. Your written testimony is the place for detail. KISS, Keep it Simple, Stupid.

Marijuana is safe & effective medicine. We've already won that debate, Nov 4, '08. Rehashing that argument doesn't really move us forward, why go back to debate something we've already won? I would suggest the talking point here is, "The voters have spoken." period.

Or, "I am walking, talking proof medical marijuana is safe & effective. Sixty three percent of Michigan voters agreed. Regardless of intent, your bills will make medical marijuana unavailable to those who need it, effectively undoing the will of the voters."

"Give the voter approved law a chance to work before politicians start tinkering with it."

"Medical marijuana patients are not political footballs to be tossed about. Proposal 1 passed in every single Michigan House & Senate district. Every single one. The citizens of this state want to protect patients. Regardless of the merits of the bills, it is highly unlikely that you will convince 3/4 of the members of both chambers to defy the will of their own constituents."

"While still technically legal to use medical marijuana, these bills will make it illegal for seriously and chronically ill patients to obtain or possess marijuana. This is not what 2 out of every 3 Michigan voters approved."

I hope that one common talking point is apparent in all of those statements. "The voters have spoken." And, "defying the voters is potentially perilous" is left unsaid but very much implied.

We've already won the debate on the efficacy of med mj. Sure, make a personal statement if that is your will. My suggestion is, don't use a lot of time debating something we've already won. Elections have consequences, we won, the prohibitionists lost, it serves their interests but not ours to continue that debate, move on. "The voters have spoken, mj is medicine. Respect the wisdom of the voters."

The Judiciary committee does not have direct oversight on MI-DCH so our complaints about inefficiencies over there are red herrings. "Not their department." The one caveat though, is that Senator Kahn, who sits on the Judiciary committee and is an avowed foe of our issue, is the chair of a committee that DOES have direct MI-DCH oversight.

Which leads to next subject, there are 7 other members of this committee besides Kuipers. Kahn is from Saginaw and is opposed to our issue. Good chance he and his committee will be our next focus after Kuipers.

Other members include Cropsey (33), Sanborn (11), Stamas (36), Patterson (7), Whitmer (23), Clarke (1), Basham (8).

Does anyone have any insight into the sympathies of these Senators? Whitmer is an ally. Cropsey is opposed. Others?

Actually had some personal stock in having his distribution bill passed

Doesnt his family or an association of his own a bunch of greenhouses?

Somehow isnt it part of a haliburtonesce scheme to create the legislation to give himself a semi-monopoly by supplying the marijuana

Anyone have the real story on this part of it?

MPP has issued a release about the meeting on January 19th..

http://mail.live.com/default.aspx?wa=wsignin1.0

3MED plans on being there (with bells on) John

I am from Big Rapids, would also like to lend my support at Tuesdays meeting in Lansing. If someone from this area is going, would like to share a ride. I will be happy to pay my fair share.

There is no way i want this web site talking for me.I'm up with the 1st ..free speach..you have a right...but i don't wanna hear it.If you feel your need to speak out..no Sarah Palins word salad.Get a set of talking points and stick to it..keep your eye on the ball.If you feel the need to tea bag no natzi signs,,,,anti gov signs, no freaking guns..Stay on topic...exaples..this is how much dope phizer had me take before...this is how much now.Laser light beam on the topics.Have sick people do the talking...this has helped me.Why should i pay for a drug that kills me..when i can grow one that helps for free?Well placed words have a impact..some leave a crater hole.Explain the facts as you see them...then attack...attack attack attack.Violence of action and suprise have always worked best for me.Elected personal are political targets and unlike Sarah do have to answer questions.In this time of grey areas between people that really need help and law enforcement in this state have have looked to Mike Cox ...our attnny whatever for guidence.I find it disgusting that he has failed to do his job.Bla bla bla..I am sick of having someone telling me the way to live my life ..what companys drugs i have to take when the man that interperts the law for this state can't be faithfull to his wife{insert familey values here}.on to the sponcer if this bill..whats his kick backs for getting our grow under roof?Kinda when the head of the epa left Bush and went to work for Exxon.Whats his kick back for the dispencerys?Follow the money.Don't gonna drag me with you..your current is sucking me down the St Clair river.. fight smarter.Bad press must stop..the next person over on plant count i'm hitting with a louiseville slugger,,The game has its rules,,you dont wanna play...get off my ice..

you in favor of this bill , u are a slap in the face to the voters that fought and died for the country to have the right to vote ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

They came out of the asscracks that elected them.

It is the way the game is played dlovas. Getting mad is good. Being smart is better.

generally deadline to turn in written testimony is a few days AFTER the hearing. Not more than a week. Ideally, turn in day of so will be fresh in mind of Senators.

They will hear public comment on the 19th. Before the hearing you may walk right up and put a copy of your written testimony on each Senator's desk, and there is even a fair chance it will get read that way. That is the best way. That is what I will be doing.

Or, when you walk up to the podium (and there is no guarantee everyone who wants to speak will be called. I still say everyone who wants to speak should sign up though) pass your written comments forward then. Ask the Chair, who is Senator Kuipers, if you can pass out your testimony? Good chance he'll say yes, worse case he'll tell you to give to clerk.

Or, you can mail to clerk later but do it w/i a few days.

In a week or so the clerk will put together an official record of the hearing. Any written testimony will be included and copies of entire record will be available to each member Senator. Along w/ rest of day's mountain of paper. So written testimony sent after the hearing may never be read. Not a good strategy.

Let the law work before changing the law, is that your talking point? Makes perfect sense and I won't tell anyone what they have to say. It is bad strategy to all go in and recite the same mantra over & over, I agree.

My advice, and the advice of the experts, is not to confuse the committee w/ a lot of detail. Pick one or two points and drive those home. Whatever those 1 or 2 points are.

"The law has not been given a chance to work. Give it an honest chance before tinkering w/ it." That is a clear & concise talking point. But get into detailed analysis of those problems, along with possible remedies and you'll soon lose their attention.

KISS. Keep it Simple, Stupid. Not that I'm calling anyone, "stupid!" Sheesh. Stupid refers to your listener. Keep it simple so, so even "stupid" can get it. OK?

Each speaker--and I encourage everyone who wants to speak to do so--will have a limited amount of time. Maybe 3 minutes, maybe 5. Maybe more if you're engaging, maybe less if you're rambling. So keep it simple and keep it brief. Other wise you risk using all your time on tangential details and never communicate the whole picture.

The thinking is that Senators may or may not grasp the detail here, may not be able to personalize the problems. But they understand the power of the voters. Senator Kuipers is one of 8 on this committee, they all have to answer to voters back home.

But I think I also left out a huge chunk here. I'm talking about your oral testimony, KISS. But the committee will also receive written testimony. Now this is the place to go nuts. Well....., maybe I better rephrase that. This is the place to go as long and as detailed as you need, hehehehe.

Seriously, keep the oral testimony simple, brief and just 1 or 2 talking points. Do the detailed analysis in your written testimony. You need only 1 copy of your written testimony to provide the clerk and s/he will make copies to distribute to all the Senators, as well as add to official record. BUT to be absolutely sure it gets to each Senator and while fresh in mind, most people will bring multiple copies of their written testimony. Hope that also clears up some misunderstanding.

Yes, a press release and statement is being drafted.

And I'm heart attack serious, anyone who wants to speak should speak. This is one of the most empowering things a citizen can do. Speaking at an official hearing like this is one of the 5 core freedoms in the First Amendment--the right to petition our government for the redress of grievances. A petition is not just a list of names. It means a request, a supplication, telling our own government what we as citizens want.

I've spoken at a few of legislative and administrative hearings and regard each as pinnacle high points of my activist career. I wish everyone to have the same experience. Empowering. There is no other word that better describes it. And no other word more precious to a long oppressed community.

Hope to see you all there. Please introduce yourself to me. We are looking for a place to meet ahead of time. We may have outgrown Gone Wired, need to talk to the owner.

Do we have a speech writer in the house that could help me stay the course and still do what is best for our community?

I am in PT three days a week and cannot attend. Do your damnedness and good luck.

This is a public meeting and anyone may attend and speak according to their own conscience.

The "experts" at ACLU, ASA & MPP, plus Greg Schmid are all saying however that it is lousy strategy to put out flaws in current law as rationales opposing changing the law. If the current system isn't working then why on earth would we oppose changes to it?

Kuipers wants to change the existing law. Best strategy is to drive home the steep political price w/ small chance of ultimate success of messing current law. Plus, this committee does not have direct oversight over MI DCH. That is another committee which we are currently preparing to focus on.

Any discussion of flaws in current law only reinforces Kuipers position that the law is flawed. Bringing up all the problems w/ MI DCH at this hearing plays into the hands of our opponents and is harmful to our own efforts to protect the law.

Shredder is correct, listen to the experts on this one. And I don't mean me, I am merely the conduit of information from a lot more experienced and brighter minds than my own.

Put the focus on high political price and low chance of success. If we go in and start talking about how current law does't work, it merely gives our opponents ammunition w/ zero benefit to us. This committee has no power as a committee to force DCH to issue cards in a more timely manner. And even if they did, that is not the topic of this hearing.

But if I show up, do I have to speak? I'm not one to hold back on much so for our sake I would like to be present but not speak and go off on them for what is not being done.

But I do think a reply is needed from us in writing as to how to fix the problems so that each one on the Judicial Committee can have some extra reading material to look at, at another time.

Suit up is what I hear????

It's time like this when I sure wish the UP had walk-in representation (that actually does, in fact, "represent" us common-folks) in Lansing at the local level.

But, since we don't have that option, and we don't expect that we will have any time in the foreseeable future (like, by the 19th of this month), if we ever do, I'm always a bit more relieved to believe and have faith enough to know that compassionate, careing, and courageous people are living and fearlessly also acting on behalf of the thousands of us Upper Michigan patient-resident-citizens who (as usual) are not able to "speak our minds" in person.

On that note, I have to wonder, what would anyone's "Higher Power" say, on our behalf, in less than "three minutes" maximum?

Can't say that most of us didn't want to nip this Big, Bad, Rotten Bunch of Slimey, Over-Fermented Grapes in the vine - way before the zombie-gatekeeper nahtzeez showed their putrid, stinky mold even worse than they already have been.

Sometimes it is reaaaallly hard to cope with crap like this; Especially on top of all the constant stress of needle-pokes, X-rays, CT Scans, MRI's, PT, Pills, pills, and more pills . . .

And then there's the health problems. Muscle cramping, spasms, brain and limb pains, aches, convulsions, tremors, nausea and all that . . .

But, hey . . . what the &%#$ do self-seeking, heartless, hate-mongering slave-drivers like Mr. Profit-minded Politician actually care about our health problems?!

That would be like the Director of the Health Department actually caring enough about patient-residents of Michigan - at least enough to post something healthfully relevant on the home page of their website, for us health-minded PEOPLE, that her job was intended (and financially supported) to help!

http://www.michigan.gov/mdch

And, that reminds me, why can't I seem to find any mention of this critically relevant meeting about Michigan's historical Voter Initiative in this month's issue of the Michigan Register?

Surprise of all surprises! : /

Although, the term "Medical Marihuana" can be found - but, just once, that I can see - in the entire document.

Though, in all fairness, is the Michigan Register ever published in a timely and constructive manner?

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dleg/MR24_011510_307149_7.pdf

Thank you, each and all, and every one of you who speak and act on our individual and collective - otherwise unexpressable - behalf.

We still will always continue to say and do what ever we can - whenever, and however, we can - to help our spirit-minded humanitarians everywhere.

So, how about we all rally a "Cannabis Caravan", right away, in early springtime, from "tip-to-mit", or "mit-to-tip"? (Or, something like that)

I've seen LEO's Motorcade from one far border of Michigan to the opposite border, numerous times.

And, then there's the "Torch Run".

Why can't we organize to do something - only much, much larger than that? Sure would revitalize all our interconnected communities.

Thanks all, for every "little thing", and all those extraordinary things, that the members of the 3MA accomplish for everyone concerned - whether they realize what you're doing for them as well or not.

I realize, and I thank you, for all that you do for the many of us who feel compelled to need a voice on our behalf in Lansing.

Much obliged.

Knowledge is POWER!

Cannabis Cures - Not Fears.

Free the Tree

me too

I will do my best to make it there.

So far the "experts" are counseling what Preacher is saying, to wit, our message should be:

"We must show Kuipers and his constituents that the ball is in our court and always will be and if they dont want to play by the peoples rules, than they can take their oppressive bills and (insert creative but not too resque explative)."

We think it important that the Senator understand the political price he will pay if he proceeds. He has his eye on the US House seat currently held by Peter Hoeskstra. If he thinks this issue will hurt him there, he will reconsider. My guess is he has done math and believes being tough on med mj will score him the most points. We need to drive home that it won't.

As for confronting him on the very real woes of MI DCH time ags, that is not topic of this hearing and it is not something the Senate Judiciary Committee even has oversight over. As important and real an issue it may be, the problems at DCH are a red herring for this particular meeting. The Kuiper's bills have to do w/ a distribution system, not the actual registry program.

it is a public meeting and anyone is of course free to show up and talk about whatever s/he wants. However, the counsel of the experts so far is that we need to stay on topic, not go off on tangents, however pressing they may be.

We are working on another project to put pressure on MI-DCH to issue cards in a timely manner. This committee has not oversight of that matter.

well i want to go maybe we can all meet at the café their in Lansing

Anyone in the Benzie, G.Traverse, and surrounding areas...
we may be able to commandeer a small tour bus, usually used for casino runs full of drunkards.
This is a privately owned bus. Gas and driver compensation will have to be donated by the riders. We could grab a bunch here and pickup people on the way down.
If anyone is interested send me an email wildsidefarm@aol.com as soon as possible. It will take a couple days to coordinate.

This is it guys and dolls! We must show Kuipers and his constituents that the ball is in our court and always will be and if they dont want to play by the peoples rules, than they can take their oppressive bills and (insert creative but not too risque explative)
RevJ

Maybe we could bring up the point that the system we already have in place is hampered by lack of funding for the program? How can they even contemplate a new system of supply when the original avenue of supply hasn't been given a proper chance to work? Shame them with the lag time and lack of due diligence getting us our LEGAL medication. Mention the undo fear and harassment patients get, and will continue to get, because they do not have an actual card that can readily be validated. Point out that stacks of paperwork waste our public servants time trying to validate them. Point out that we have donated a quarter of a million dollars to the state's economy last year and we have not been treated fairly and as the law dictates.

There are several alternative bills floating around. This (the meeting) probably is not the appropriate time/place to discuss them in great detail.

Focus on this package of bills. No harm at all of submitting written copies of alternatives but probably best to keep testimony of the day focused on these 3 bills.

Your opening position is rarely what the final outcome is, be careful and listen the experts. This has the potential to hurt us all...............shredder

any one in macomb county email me for ride share too
i dot know what i can do but i can follow directions and be another person and voice..

for a distribution system ready as far as a coherent legal proposal that can be submitted for review? If in fact that is the case, it could be the best opportunity to get an equal review from all required at the same time the other proposal was being reviewed.

I really want to be at this meeting, anyone in Rochester area please contact me about ride-share that day.