Police seize medical marijuana plants
BY ART BUKOWSKI
abukowski@record-eagle.com
August 20, 2009 07:45 am
—
RAPID CITY -- Police swooped in and confiscated several marijuana plants from a man after a local weekly newspaper wrote about him growing marijuana for medical use.
The Grand Traverse County-based Northern Express on July 27 ran a story about Kalkaska County resident Archie Kiel and others who grow and use marijuana.
Kiel, who lives on the outskirts of Rapid City, is authorized to grow marijuana for himself and two patients under Michigan's recently approved medical marijuana laws.
But officers with the state police-led, multi-jurisdictional Traverse Narcotics Team arrived at Kiel's house last week and seized about half of his nearly 70 marijuana plants. Authorities told him photos in the Northern Express revealed he had more than he was authorized to grow, Kiel said.
Kiel, 48, is allowed to have 12 plants for himself and 12 more for each of his patients, he said. He contends the remaining plants were intended for patients who hadn't yet obtained medical paperwork to permit them to use marijuana, but were in the process of doing so.
"I was totally trying to stay legal in every way, shape and form ... I'm trying to stay legal and take care of my patients," he said.
TNT Commander Lt. Kip Belcher wouldn't comment. Kalkaska County Prosecutor Brian Donnelly said he and Belcher discussed seizing all of the plants, but weren't comfortable going that far.
"There's not enough consensus on this ... I don't want to be in the position where we appear to, or actually do encroach on something that's legal," Donnelly said. "If it turns out there's a prevailing legal (opinion) that we should have taken the rest of them, we can go back and take them all."
Donnelly said he learned of TNT's plans to visit Kiel's property after officers arrived there and called him. He said isn't sure if police will seek criminal charges against Kiel.
"One thing I think is safe to say is if the situation is as such that he was legally authorized to grow a certain number of plants and he had more, he's almost certainly going to be charged," he said.
Kiel's excuse -- preparing for patients who soon will have medical marijuana certification -- doesn't hold much legal weight, Donnelly said.
"If you say, 'But I'm going to have my drivers license in two weeks, can't I drive now?' Then the answer is no," he said.
Traverse City-based reporter Anne Stanton wrote the Northern Express story. She said she contacted Belcher prior to its publication and assumed police wouldn't bother Kiel, though they made no such promise.
"(Belcher) didn't give me any guarantees. He acknowledged that the people I was writing about weren't his typical targets," Stanton said. "Maybe, because I'm a tender-hearted person, I thought that he would leave them alone."
Kiel said he wasn't surprised when authorities arrived at his door, though a police fly-over conducted shortly before the raid was a bit unsettling, he said.
"They buzzed my house with a helicopter close enough to shake everything," he said.
Neighbor Steve Saunders, 70, said those who live near and know Kiel thought police might come knocking after the Northern Express story.
"Everyone expected something to happen," he said. "They expected Archie to get arrested."
But neighbors were outraged when police took the marijuana, and community support is swelling for Kiel, Saunders said.
"Archie's family is an old family here ... they'll stand by Archie," he said.
Copyright © 1999-2008 cnhi, inc.
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One of the biggest problems
One of the biggest problems here is the plants they decided to kill.
The ones closest to harvest. They left seedlings.
That means patients will now be forced to wait an extra couple of months for their medicine.
That is an example of the police deliberately inflicting pain and suffering on completely law abiding patients.
Leo perceives their job as
Leo perceives their job as removing as much marijuana from the public as they can.
The mmj law protects the patients medicine.
These two conflict.
The public isn't supposed to get marijuana. Patients are supposed to get marijuana.
To resolve the conflict the police decided to get as close as they could. However there was no thought about the patient. None at all. By the police, anyway.
It seems that the PA has a small amount of thought in the process and decided that it wasn't the correct thing to do to deprive patients.
On the other hand that thought wasn't on the minds of the police. They went with their first perceived duty. That being destroy as much marijuana as possible.
well written brother
i totally agree could not have said it better myself
These are the patients that
These are the patients that the AG of Michigan, Michael Cox, has refused to protect.
This was an attack against five patients that the voters said need protection.
Yea, publishing illegal plant
Yea, publishing illegal plant counts in local publications is just plain foolish. Now he's on their radar too..
The moral of this story seems
The moral of this story seems do not have the news come to your house to take pictures of your questionable plant count. My goodness.. then they DO have an opportunity to get a warrant, you publicly admitted to a possible crime when you agreed to have those pictures posted.
Arrest??
I don't see how Archie could be charged with anything, he was left with cannabis plants. By doing this they acknowledged he is "legal" to possess them. What charge on the books could even be applied here if he is a legal.
There isn't a law on the books for being over the limit, but then again over the limit can be fought based on need.
Will be interesting, the Kalkaska PA and local State Police have been very vocal on there disagreement of the new law. They must not of been able to take seeing those pictures in their local paper.
One last thought isn't it scary when law enforcement people, from the PA down to the local deputy take an opinion on any law?
it is scary - we are not
it is scary - we are not privy to their bible thumping morals - we just live here and hope that our leaders exercise real judgment in applying our laws, and not judgment based on their own personal set of morals and beliefs - DAD I ALREADY DID MY HOMEWORK DAMNIT, see what I mean, parenting the world will not work
And By The Way
Traverse City police suck pond water, and TNT is a joke. They are the lowest form of life, and are some of the most corrupt task force units in the entire US. Period.
A Little Poor Judgement and Planning Can Cause You Problems
He was "legal" for 36 plants. Now, if he had possessed copies of the other patients Doctors Recommendations and NOTARIZED MDCH documentation showing his patients were waiting for their cards and the aforementioned documentation copies had been sent in to the MDCH via REGISTERED MAIL this would have helped his case tremendously; it may not have prevented seizure of the plants but then again, it may have, and it would definitely have made a hell of a difference in the courtroom. As it now stands, the seized plants fall under the AD, and the AD is a bargaining tool, not a "case dismissed" scenario. EVERY case I have researched which has utilized the AD and "won" has been appealed. EVERY SINGLE ONE. And these are the cases that will set the precedents. We need to back these cases 110% and do our level best to show up at ALL major court appearances by the defendants. Unification is the only way we will get our point across and win. Our enemies are very well unified. And we desperately need to be as well. We need to stop this foolish infighting and UNITE, regardless of differences of opinion. Period. Half of the bickering going on here is initiated by "members" who are actually LEO in disguise. They are raising hate and discontent to keep us from focusing on our true goals. Think about that the next time you start fighting with another member. Agree to disagree, move on and focus on what's important: MAINTAINING AND IMPROVING THIS NEW LAW! And honestly, do your best to use proper grammar and spell correctly; poor grammar makes us all look like "ignorant potheads", regardless of whether or not you are getting your point across.
Yo Scooter...
I like the way you think...
What the mind of women and men can conceive they can achieve with a Positive Mental Attitude!
Yours in the Bond of Buds,
Marijuana Ranch
Ron Klug
Head Wrangler/ Patient, Caregiver
West Branch, Michigan
ph. 989-701-2 420
Exit 212 on I-75
drivers license
I voluntarily gave mine up. I take too many drugs for pain including mm to drive safely. Luckily for me my husband does the driving. I don't miss it.
I got
23years and 2.5 professional miles under my belt, as an Independent Cross-country driver, before I changed careers! Accident free, ATA Safe driving Awards! I trust a driver utilizing Marijuana way before I'd trust a driver on synthetic drugs, alcohol, and/ or cell phones. Since I'm not a polotician, what do I know about driving!
A point of clarification
A point of clarification regarding this case. 3 additional patients are in the process of certifying Archie as a caregiver but it may actually be weeks before the certification from the state of Michigan arrives in the mail. There is a huge backlog at the Dept. of Community Health and patients are reporting a wait of 6 weeks between
the time that they applied and when they actually receive their
card. In the interim, patients and caregiver are protected under the
"affirmative defense" provision of the MMM Act.
Like always people jump to conclusions. As I remember as long as you haven't received a rejection letter within 15 days of cashing your check then your legally covered by the michigan medical marijuana act.
I met Archie at the Expo here in detroit and I do believe he's in it for the right things. For some of you to call him out and not stand behind a brother in his time of need by us is so wrong. Sit on your mighty thrones and cast judgement all you want but I'll let the facts play out.
Reading between the lines I
Reading between the lines I figured Archie was using affirmative defense. The state is taking so long to get cards out, they know they are going to make a little extra money here and there from cases just like this.
I was asking about AD as a defense for a caregiver. People here told me it is ok to use AD as a craegiver.
Then this ignorant cop is quoted saying "If you say, 'But I'm going to have my drivers license in two weeks, can't I drive now?' Then the answer is no," he said.
Obviously this idiot cop didn't read the law and is spouting pure B.S. He should be receiving countless wake-up calls that inform him of what the law really says.
I hope Archie nails these bastards to the wall but it's like pissing directly into the wind when you fight LEO.
Good luck Archie!
So Tri
Thats that god awful smell . Me pissing in the wind .Thanks for the heads up bro
Not to mention the Secretary
Not to mention the Secretary of State issues a temporary license to any one that has applied and has been given a drivers license - there is only a doctors recommendation, documents mailed with proof of service as your temporary licence in the MMP - so yes officer I CAN drive if I am getting my license from the state department soon - and my temp license says so :)
Just Renewed
My drivers lic. Yesterday . Had no problems
This TIME...& until when...
They're already getting together to assault and hassle medical marijuana patients abilities to drive as a way to limit the sheer numbers of registered M.M.M. patients and future applicants. I have proof of this if you'd like sources. Still do not cower in fear nor hide as subversives and drug addicts but join in vilifying and destroying their arguments against medical marijuana patients driving. The vicodine I took for years was always in my system it can and does effect me and could affect driving what gives... why no concern for me and the public then?
Guy was given a finger and he
Guy was given a finger and he took the entire hand, nothing more to it.
On a side note
Be careful mixing tomato's with MJ, tomato plants attract thrips.
The only thing I can say is the dude should have known the heat was going to be on him, although I disagree with those that think he should be punished. The law sadly is pretty clear.
Another example of the dangers of "Showing our faces".
donnely
obviously decided he wanted his own test case...I think he will have his ass handed to him. I hope someone can take this case pro bono...it screams test case..
Spreading the fear
This article shows the "compassion" of the prosecutor early in Kalkaska.
http://www.9and10news.com/category/story/?id=151855
Confusion and concern still remain with new medical marijuana law
Posted: 4/1/2009
The state is putting the finishing touches on its rules for medical marijuana, even though some concern and confusion still remain.
Patients who qualify for the program -- with their doctor's approval -- will be sent a state issued ID card. Law enforcement is still waiting for guidance from the state in exactly how to enforce the new law.
Kalkaska County Prosecutor, Brian Donnelley, is also concerned about legal users driving on the road.
"If a person smokes marijuana everyday because their doctor says that's what you need, you might as well surrender your drivers license," he says.
Under Michigan law, it's illegal to drive with any traces of marijuana in your body. It doesn't matter whether the substance impairs your driving.
In some cases, it can take days for the drug to leave your system.
"I'm concerned about people using medical marijuana that might not be aware that it may effect their status as a driver," says Donnelley. "But I'm also concerned that it might affect their driving and put the public at risk."
9&10's Ryan Raiche and Photojournalist Jeremy Erickson explain the concerns.
Fight fire with fire...
The fact is that Federal Marijuana patients can drive while smoking...Have there been accidents? How can they enforce this notion of impaired driving and why are they attempting to you might ask. There is a tolerable level of alcohol with which in your bloodstream you are still legal to drive unless visually showing signs of impairment! Everyone knows alcohols effects on drivers and the affects to the public ask them about this. Prescription drugs quite frequently list do not drive until you know the effects of this medication upon you ask them about that too! Question and challenge authority legally and knowledgeably and watch them stammer and stutter! Our enemies and they are enemies to our cause will not stop unless we stop their anti-medical marijuana crusade all of course to protect the people from themselves and the laws they believe in and VOTE into law.
how did they know how many patients he had
sure there were 70 plants ,,, how did the police know he olnly had a smaller quota of patients?? did they call mdch to see how many care giver cards this man has? found out that he has 48 ?then counted came up with 70 then got the warrent?
I was wondering the same
I was wondering the same thing. How did the police get this guys information. They aren't supposed to know anything about his grow. WTF?
Think about it...
I saw plants...Do you like plants; I like plants! Didn't the newspaper show plants on a balcony? They can come to ask it's a free country, right; or check the number if you publicly show and open the door. Perhaps they just wanted to talk. C'mon get the laws of the land right! The law enforcement had the right to obtain a warrant. Next they know that the common Joe will answer their door.. bingo entry is simpler and cheaper than bothering a judge and all that paperwork. How do you answer your door? Most open it to talk...1st mistake...2nd letting them in as I've nothing to hide (mistake) 3rd most people assume I asked you in I can ask you to leave which is not true. Once let in to a domicile they're in control...this type of scenario will help them to entrap and they will lie, conspire, and corroborate then falsify testimonies. The Judge will not care how the law enforcement broke the law but they sure will about how you did...In Traverse's Northern Express case that article is damaging I swore I saw plants on a balcony so... so could they; know your rights beforehand as afterward is too late.
Two patients
He said he had two patients in the article. Can you incriminate yourself? Can your own words be used against you? Probably enough to get you 'investigated'.
Yeah this a tough one,
Yeah this a tough one, especially if you have a CDL. It's my understanding under the influence means if you have THC in your bloodstream. Depending how much you ingest will determine how long it takes to leave your bloodstream, but I believe from the last time of ingestion it should take no longer than 12 hours for THC to leave your bloodstream.
However, CDL holders are required to take a urine screen at least once a year. So they don't have to be under the influence, just a user to get denied.
Also, it's not any amount in your blood stream, there is a cut off on a blood test, I think it 40 nanograms, not much, but I don't believe if you take a couple puffs and get pulled over, accused of being under the influence, then detained and driven to the hospital to be administered a blood test that your test is going to come back under the influence.
I am not 100% certain on any of this infomation, but a call to the Michigan State Police should clarify this issue, they are usually very helpful if you have a question regarding laws or police procedure.
I did have two friends who were in this situation, one got charged the other didn't, both were given blood tests at the hospital. The penalty is the same as driving drunk and three of these charges are a felony.
Well,
in my previous life I had a transportation job that keep the public safe through the use of random drug testing.
Once, I was was worried about some cough medicine I had taken and went to my family doctor to ask about random drug screening. He didn't have the answers but called three different testing labs before he reached an employee who was willing to go on the record. They told him that the cough syrup (prescription) couldn't be detected after a couple of days. They also gave out info on other drugs that are sampled. THC can be detected for at least a month using random testing. Cocaine, 24 hrs.
This isn't just a CDL problem. It's a concern for all.
THC supposedly can be
THC supposedly can be detected for a month in your urine, I know I've read this before, but I don't buy it anymore, more like two weeks. I cite my friend who went to Brighton for rehab and upon giving him a urine test it was stated that he had the highest level of THC they've even seen, but he was clean in 11 days.
But we're talking about proving someone being under-the-influence here, so the police will request a blood-test at the nearest hospital. Marijuana rids itself from the blood system quite rapidly, usually with 12 hours or less.
Ummm....I was citing the CDL issue as one that would pertain to a person recieving an urinalysis.
Again, this is another example of an area of the law that hasn't been tested by a court....yet.
fear
All this cracks me up.You mean to tell me that people who are perscribed legal narcotics are allowed to drive ( oxycoton valium,tylenol 3 s, not to mention all these pills they advertise on TV for dick problems,fibro, depression,etc..,) all these can cause dizziness,but thats okay.go ahead an drive, you won`t lose your drivers liscense,only if your a MM patient, PLEASE PEOPLE , GET A Fricking grip ! The effects of Marijuana wear off after 30 min.( depending on the strain ).That prosecuting attorney,I`ll out drive him anyday,You`re so worried about putting the public at risk,why don`t we take everyones drivers liscense away that wants to go to the bar.,or take a pain pill,oh, got a scrip from your Dr. for Valium?, lose your drivers liscense,.This is absolute Bullshit!
I agree 100% with your statement...
I think it is common sense, but that goes out the window every time a loophole artist/lawyer gets involved....UN FUCKING REAL..
TRUE TRUE TRUE!
TRUE TRUE TRUE!
bummer, but....
you cant say you are "trying to stay within the law"---when you just aint.
i feel bad for him , but mostly his patients. they r screwed through no fault of thier own.
just cant do silly stuff like this. plain and simple
Nonsense
If Archie's patient's have their recommendations then TNT is going to get handed their ass over this. It's a ready happened elsewhere in the state. Affirmative Defense. It's not just a notion, it's the law. You don't have to be registered to be legal.
Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Archie is innocent at this point regardless of the fact that in your mind he's guilty.
Apparently Archie suspected this might happen. I would expect he has a plan to deal with this. If not why did he hang himself out there?
TNT
I agree that it's way cool his neighbors are supporting him. Just shows that even the Average Joe is sick of the Narc Squad and their terror tactics against mj.
If you're only growing for
If you're only growing for yourself I believe it is fine to grow inside your home. However, if you're taking on patients it would be best to find some place outside your home. Considering what has transpired here it sounds like some over zealous agency could tear every bedroom in your home apart looking for more than the alloted amount of "dried plant material".
My advice is to form an LLC or a non-profit. The disadvantage to a non-profit is that you need to have three board members, an LLC you need just one.
I recommend renting a suitable commercial space in the name of the LLC. This should protect you home from a search warrant.
Alternatively, if you live on land that has space for a small building i.e. prefab steel or fibreglass the same protections could be afforded to your home if you were to rent this building to your LLC. Your may use your own street address and add stuite A to any correspondence pertaining to your care giving operation.
Does the card prevent inspections?
If you are a registered patient with a card does that prevent inspections? Even if they have a search warrant?
This is what the law says.
(g) Possession of, or application for, a registry identification card shall not constitute probable cause or reasonable suspicion, nor shall it be used to support the search of the person or property of the person possessing or applying for the registry identification card, or otherwise subject the person or property of the person to inspection by any local, county or state governmental agency.
Search warrant...
They have to have a reason to get the search warrant. Someone would have to tell them you did something wrong and have some kind of proof.
Here's a recent simple example;
A patient gives his brother some meds.
The brother's wife is mad for whatever reason.
She calls 911 and tells the cops her brother-in law, the patient, is giving away cannabis. She shows them the bag and they get the warrant....
I'm sure there is much more to the story but that is what was reported. The brother may have been a patient too, who knows? And that would make it legal under the affirmative defense. But all the plants are still down at the cop shop waiting on the court.
This is not a step forward.
If his patients had a doctor's rec, then they are legal and so is he whether the state issued the cards or not. He had his state card and cards for a number of the patients, but not for a couple of patients waiting on the state. Having a legal grow is not probable cause and he is not subject to inspection. I understand a doctor's rec does not stop arrest, but the police should not arrest them just so it can be dismissed by the courts.
Subject to inspection....
Registration protects you from arrest and LEO, at least it is supposed to. Affirmative defense(doctors rec) only protects you from the judge. You can expect to be checked out if you stick your head out there and are not completely registered. Why? Because they can.... Think about this; The cops have the right to make sure your legal grow is for patients only, that is still their job, like it or not. You can give them a short cut by being registered, then they do not have to investigate and take evidense, they have to give you the benefit of the doubt....
agreed - they approached this
agreed - they approached this entirely wrong - what if someone had got hurt in this, it could have gone wrong in so many many ways
definitely an affirmative defense case
leo should know that the affirmative defense is retroactive, meaning that Archie can get his other folks signed on and be their caregiver from the time of the arrest to the time of his arraignment. If he has them signed on as being their caregiver before his arraignment the judge will have no choice but to grant Archie the dismissal under the affirmative defense. That is the best section of the Michigan Medical marihuana Act, that fact that one does not have to even have a rrecommendation when arrested, but can go get a recommendation from the time of arrest til the time of arraignment, and get all of their charges dismissed. Cant wait to see how it unfolds.
Not entirely so...
The Michigan Court of Appeals will soon rule on the effective date issues. Certainly the law was written and crafted to protect Medical Marijuana patients retroactively but DO NO ASSUME this is the case. Two Michigan Judicial Circuit Judges have ruled in favor and two against. Thank the Gods and someones bravery to challenge unto the Michigan Appeals Court. Yet it may not even then be over..Ever hear of the Supreme Court? A prosecutor can also appeal to a higher court to continue the legal battle! So you could be waiting a long time..as for me...The Circuit Court Judge Batzer has supposedly stated my affirmative defense will be upheld if the Michigan Appeals Court rules in favor of the retroactive effective date. So what you write should be true but is not. If you think I lie use freedom of information act to check out the 85th District court of Michigan which bound me over to the 17th Judicial Court over the effective date issue and affirmative defense!
Grow room media exposure is great...
but the fact is the State of Michigan's law officials and law enforcement don't particularly like this law! Too much public exposure and the next thing you know the people may rise up and want marijuana DECRIMINALIZATION or worse yet LEGALIZATION. Don't you understand human nature and see efforts to control people from themselves and for their own good even if it violates the 1st amendment to the United States Constitution and the right to the pursuit of happiness? I sure am healthier and happier smoking and I harm no one but this doesn't matter, ask yourselves why!
While I understand the AD being retroactive
I find it hard to use it unless he has three patients more with signed Doctors statements that MM could be benificial to them who cliam they were in the process of submitting forms to the State.
I want the law to cover any amount; but people in Hell want ice water too.
It's going to be very interesting to see how the Court decides on this if the prosecutor goes ahead with charges; I see a small clue in that story saying he might not even prosecute:
Where the story says Donnelly learned of the raid once it was underway, and isn't sure if the cops are going to ask for charges - that reinforces his statement that he doesn't want to overstep his authority and wasn't comfortable taking all of the plants over what they, (him and the cops), see as his limit.
I feel for the Brother who was busted here as a result of speaking out when asked to by the reporter and her contact; but I wouldn't lay any blame on them as it was Archies decision to let them photograph everything and he must have known he was exposing a grey area that could cause him problems.
I sure hope Archie prevails, and sets a precedent for the rest of the community. I talk a lot of what if, why not, etc. in these threads; but the truth is I don't have the gonads to do what Archie did. I am determined to stay without the law using the most conservative interpretation of it until more of these cases are resolved. I even waited for Bob and Torreys' case to be resolved before getting forms and approaching my Doctor who had known I used MM for years and never gave me any problems. I hope I am done with Courtrooms; so I'll just stand here on the sideline and cheer, and try to donate to the cause in other ways.
Thats pretty much what I see as well
With a AD, they should have taken everything, booked him, etc. He SHOULD not have had more than his allowable amount. Trying to bank on patients that don't have papers is just abuse of the law.
There is one other thing, we are legal and should we want to have the paper come and shoot our grow room then we shouldn't feel like we have in the past, and that information shouldn't be used to perform a bust, unless you weren't legal.
This is just a mess from where I am sitting, but, and its a big but, the LEO did only come and remove all but the allowable, so there is that to be grateful for.
UP I like your thoughts on
UP I like your thoughts on this but your statement, "leo should know that the affirmative defense is retroactive" will probably lead people to believe that the police are in a position to deal with AD. The AD is a defense to be presented to a judge. A police officer is simply not qualified and does not have the authority to make that decision....so if you put him in the position where he has to make that decision he will err on the conservative and take your stuff.
Now, I'm all for the officer exercising discretion and realizing that if he does yank the extra plants and the patients do file the AD, then it is a big waste of everyone's time. But if you expect this from LEO, be prepared to get run through the system.