Michigan Medical Marihuana Review Panel

[peanutbutter]

Yes, I believe we have definitely concluded that peanutbutter is sensationalizing and fear mongering (again).

 

I have a concern about the safety of persons that testify.

 

I also have a concern that these proceedings could be used to identify classes of patients to attack. Again, safety for the patients.

 

That safety concern was heightened when someone pointed out that BS had his fingers in the process.

 

Do you think it is fear mongering to be concerned about the impact of BS in the process?

Edited December 18, 2012 by peanutbutter

[Hayduke]

I could not agree with your assessment PB. Bill Schuette is not omnipotent. There was an Asst. Atty Gen. there to answer questions about the Open Meetings Act and Roberts Rules of Order.

 

And yes, I think it fear mongering to be concerned about the impact of BS in the process.

 

Didn't you leave very early in the meeting? If so how would you have any insight into the tone of the meeting. As a participant, I was pleasantly surprised at how many of the Doctors seemed open to learning and considering new conditions.

[peanutbutter]

I could not agree with your assessment PB. Bill Schuette is not omnipotent. There was an Asst. Atty Gen. there to answer questions about the Open Meetings Act and Roberts Rules of Order.

 

And yes, I think it fear mongering to be concerned about the impact of BS in the process.

 

Didn't you leave very early in the meeting? If so how would you have any insight into the tone of the meeting. As a participant, I was pleasantly surprised at how many of the Doctors seemed open to learning and considering new conditions.

Yes I did leave early.

 

My impressions are gathered from those that reported on what took place.

 

I went to a board of pharmacy meeting. A request had been made to reschedule cannabis.

 

They made a request to the office of Bill Schuette for his opinion about if it was lawful to make the change. End of the process.

 

The same office was allowed to be involved in the development of the application.

 

Did BS work to cause the passage of the bills before the governor right now?

 

Did he not run the campaign against our law?

 

The members of the board seem to be completely willing to be open and honestly evaluate the information presented. I gained that impression just waiting for the meeting to start. Those that reported back all seem to have that impression.

 

WONDERFUL to that point.

 

It's Bills involvement that has me worried. I don't trust him at all.

[peanutbutter]

For instance. The director can disapprove the vote of the board about Parkinsons.

 

Hopefully not. I don't know how to gauge that.

 

And I wonder if the opinion of the AG will be sought about that approval. If so, why?

[Dr. Bob]

Yes I did leave early.

 

My impressions are gathered from those that reported on what took place.

 

I went to a board of pharmacy meeting. A request had been made to reschedule cannabis.

 

 

Quick suggestion-- let's stop speculating and putting spins on things and listen to those that were actually there and made it a priority to stay at the new condition panel....ok.

 

We are getting good information from people present and involved in the process, and we don't need to complicate it with speculation that our friend Bill is waiting on the wings to arrest people that testify to improve the condition list and serve patients. That is not productive.

 

Chad and Cl are correct on what the panel wants, I believe Chad actually put up a list of specific types of evidence. As a physician, that is the type of information I want when I need to make a medical or treatment strategy condition. You won't see a lot of medical studies on slamming an asthmatic in failure with a high dose of Magnesium as you get ready to intubate them. That little trick breaks the spasm immediately in about 20%. I learned it as a paramedic from an old fart pulmonologist and pulled it off 5-10 times in the last 20 years. Works so well it scares you. Docs listen to things like that.

 

Currently I am working to get letters and emails from Vets with PTSD. I'd also like to get some from rape victims, prisoners, and others that have been through bad experiences. I'll remove the names and submit them through my contacts at the board.

 

Dr. Bob

[Herb Cannabis]

three petitions, in the proper format (as determined by LARA), have been received and we have discussed and preliminarily voted. Internet comments begin 1/11 and there will be a hearing 1/25. The panel meets again sometime between 3/15 and 4/15.

 

File a petition for asthma with the supporting documents, and it seems likely you could get that on the agenda for the future. Address questions for LARA to Steve Creamer. He is a nice guy who is very helpful on logistics.

 

You're on the board, correct? Have there been any mention of petitions dealing with Bipolar disorder or depression?

 

I put together a binder with everything I could find on the net concerning Bipolar disease and depression when our law was passed waiting for this moment.

[Herb Cannabis]

Yes i can start up a grow and i agree it would help me i tell people the same as you have said that

 

Marijuana is not addictive but growing is LOL

 

I am back living in the same city were we got raided because my Mom died

 

A few months ago so am liveing in her house and i just cant get up the Nerve

To grow but i know it would help me so some day soon i hope

 

Just do it, you will be glad you did, I was! This is a crazy smile.

[Hayduke]

You're on the board, correct? Have there been any mention of petitions dealing with Bipolar disorder or depression?

 

I put together a binder with everything I could find on the net concerning Bipolar disease and depression when our law was passed waiting for this moment.

 

no discussion at all. as frustrating as it must seem, you need to file a petition on the forms they suggest. I am with you brother...

[Restorium2]

I hate to do this, but we need to discuss what this language means, as it seems to encompass something more than was declared at the opening meeting, and I do not know what it means:

 

 

 

I didn't write it.

I think I understand it. Treatments. Like a breathing treatment for Asthma by vaporizer. I was actually thinking about this earlier today. What you do for Asthma is a treatment. A specific treatment involving cannabis used in a vaporizer. So you could get the condition on the list and also the treatment on the list. It gives the doctors on the panel more flexibility.

[peanutbutter]

I hate to do this, but we need to discuss what this language means, as it seems to encompass something more than was declared at the opening meeting, and I do not know what it means:

 

I didn't write it.

 

So a treatment can be identified as a Debilitating Medical Condition.

[+Malamute]

I cannot stress the importance of people or groups of people to get together and fill out QUALITY petitions with SUPERB quality references and scientific backing into this panel.

 

The panel can do nothing but review the information given to them from quality petitions and use their expertise and judgment as to whether to recommend conditions or not.

 

Please, do not make this more difficult than it needs to be.

 

I do not think anyone harranged people for testifying in the legislative committee hearings. This is even less "scary" than that. Heh.

 

We want this panel to be our friends, hear our concerns, read our proof and studies, and make informed quality decisions to add conditions to our law. We don;t even have to get 75% to get conditions added. This is a gift granted to us by our law and if we do not take the utmost care and dedication to utilize this portion of our law than we are fools. Lazy, conceited fools. People spent 1.4 million dollars and thousands of hours of work to give us that section of our law, the least we can do is respect it and put some serious professionalism into making the future for some future medical cannabis patients possible by adding conditions to our law.

 

Focus.

 

Pick a condition that means something for you. Do research. Pool research. Write down your research. Cite your references. Print your evidence. Ask others to help. Ask others to proof read it. Send it in.

 

We can do this people.

 

I am officially asking and or begging for members of the Michigan Medical Marijuana Association to pool your resources. knowledge and hopefully expertise into producing ONE high quality petition for a new qualifying condition every single month.

 

Make this a perpetual machine. Boom Boom Boom. The beat of the drum recommending new conditions.

 

This is something anyone can do. Granny Storm Crow is FAR from the end all. It is a WONDERFUL starting point. We can do better. We are Michigan.

 

Let's be the first state to actually implement a reasonable new qualifying petitions panel.

 

It is happening now.

 

What will we make of it?.........

[CaveatLector]

Rah rah rah, sis boom baa! You sound like a fricking cheerleader mal.

 

I do hope that people submitting info will take the time to source the info with primary source citations. Don't just link to internet stories. Cite peer reviewed journal articles where available. Put it together with as much time as you would have on spent on a college research paper. Make it readable. Ask someone to proofread/edit.

[Restorium2]

Here's that link again to cannabis clinical trials and case studies;

http://www.cannabis-med.org/studies/study.php

[CaveatLector]

Here's that link again to cannabis clinical trials and case studies;

http://www.cannabis-...udies/study.php

Excellent resource!

[+Malamute]

Rah rah rah, sis boom baa! You sound like a fricking cheerleader mal.

 

 

[t-pain]

I think I understand it. Treatments. Like a breathing treatment for Asthma by vaporizer. I was actually thinking about this earlier today. What you do for Asthma is a treatment. A specific treatment involving cannabis used in a vaporizer. So you could get the condition on the list and also the treatment on the list. It gives the doctors on the panel more flexibility.

 

i agree with this assessment of the definition of treatment as written in the law. (doesnt make us correct! haha)

treatments will be limited. but i have an idea already , so i'm going to go write me a petition, yay.

thanks guys for paying attention to the law. i thought it was just a word-for-word copy of what was in the mmma (conditions/symptoms only).

[mibrains]

i would like to start to work on insomnia. (if it is not being worked on yet that is)

 

i am not sure where to begin yet..

 

but i know my medicated caramel candy (Marmels) has helped tremendously mine as well as at least one of my patients inability to sleep (sleep disorder.)

 

one has all but come off of ambien (i think is the sleep medication she used)

 

so i will start the process on insomnia and any cannabis treatments known to help alleviate the condition. if anyone has experiences and ideas on that process and conditon i would be happy to have help with this project...

 

thank you every one

 

and

 

Good Night ?

 

 

i

[+Malamute]

I will contact you privately mibrains.

 

Someone is about 75% way through the insomnia petition.

 

I can update you and use your help.

 

Give me a couple days.

[mibrains]

excellent mal thank u

[SFC]

I know the emu oil infused topical one of our brothers here made is having a wonderful effect on my patients arthritis in her knuckles.

[t-pain]

btw, dont get hung up on 'debilitating medical condition' on the petition. sec 3.a.3. states:

(3) Any other medical condition or its treatment approved by the department, as provided for in section 5(a).

[knucklehead bob]

Michigan Panel Recommends Marijuana For Parkinson’s Disease

Edited December 19, 2012 by knucklehead bob

[mibrains]

thanks bob

 

Michigan Conditions Panel Recommends Marijuana Use For Parkinson’s, Asks For More Info On PTSD

 

By Rick Thompson

A long-awaited panel was convened in Lansing on Friday to evaluate adding medical conditions to the list of ailments that can be treated with medical marijuana in Michigan. The panel of was composed almost entirely of physicians and health care professionals. They recommended Parkinson’s Disease be added to the list of qualifying conditions contained within the Michigan Medical Marijuana Act (MMA).

A second condition, Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, failed to receive a recommendation from the panel by a narrow 4-5 vote with two abstentions. The call from panel members was for more information, and a second vote on the issue, after the new year. PTSD petitioner John Evans said, “One individual voting no expressed his vote was to motivate individuals… worried a yes vote at this time by the panel would result in a lack of enthusiasm for public testimony.”

The panel met for the first time despite the MMA’s four-year history in Michigan. Over one hundred applications were received to suggest new conditions for addition to the MMA listing. In 2012 the Snyder administration devised a new form and asked for the previous submissions to be reworked. They discovered that, as a result of the untimely delay, some patients had died while waiting for their conditions to receive a hearing. Attorney Matthew Abel of Detroit says he has a lawsuit pending against the state for the delay in convening the panel.

Additional input on PTSD is being sought by the Panel. A website will be active in mid-January where personal testimonials can be delivered to the Panel, and the Michigan Library in Lansing is reserved for public commentary on the issue. That event will be held January 25^th at 712 W. Kalamazoo.

The Medical Marijuana Review Panel will reconvene sometime in the month preceding April 15^th to make final recommendations to the Director of LARA, who will issue the final decisions before May 20^th, 2013.

Mr. Evans’ struggle to get PTSD considered for inclusion on the MMA list is documented in a series of emails made to a pro-marijuana email listing, compiled here:

www.thecompassionchronicles.com/opinion/guest-bloggers/john-evans/

[Restorium2]

I'm getting my asthma petition together and starting to think about finding another and BINGO, I found a fantastic use to petition. I'm sure a lot of people have seen this for themselves. An alcoholic switches over to cannabis and they eventually quit drinking and become healthy. I have interesting back up started already on this one:

 

Title Cannabis as a substitute for alcohol and other drugs Author(s) Reiman A. Journal, Volume, Issue Harm Reduct J 2009;6:35. Major outcome(s) 40 % use cannabis to substitute for alcohol, 26 % to substitute for illegal drugs Indication Dependency/withdrawal Abstract Medication Cannabis

Background

Substitution can be operationalized as the conscious choice to use one drug (legal or illicit) instead of, or in conjunction with, another due to issues such as: perceived safety; level of addiction potential; effectiveness in relieving symptoms; access and level of acceptance. This practice of substitution can be observed among individuals using cannabis for medical purposes. This study examined drug and alcohol use, and the occurrence of substitution among medical cannabis patients.

Methods

Anonymous survey data were collected at the Berkeley Patient's Group (BPG), a medical cannabis dispensary in Berkeley, CA. (N=350) The sample was 68% male, 54% single, 66% White, mean age was 39; 74% have health insurance (including Medical), 41% work full time, 81% have completed at least some college, 55% make less than $40,000 a year. Seventy one percent report having a chronic medical condition, 52% use cannabis for a pain related condition, 75% use cannabis for a mental health issue.

Results

Fifty three percent of the sample currently drinks alcohol, 2.6 was the average number of drinking days per week, 2.9 was the average number of drinks on a drinking occasion. One quarter currently uses tobacco, 9.5 is the average number of cigarettes smoked daily. Eleven percent have used a non-prescribed, non OTC drug in the past 30 days with cocaine, MDMA and Vicodin reported most frequently. Twenty five percent reported growing up in an abusive or addictive household. Sixteen percent reported previous alcohol and/or drug treatment, and 2% are currently in a 12-step or other recovery program. Forty percent have used cannabis as a substitute for alcohol, 26% as a substitute for illicit drugs and 66% as a substitute for prescription drugs. The most common reasons given for substituting were: less adverse side effects (65%), better symptom management (57%), and less withdrawal potential (34%) with cannabis.

Conclusions

The substitution of one psychoactive substance for another with the goal of reducing negative outcomes can be included within the framework of harm reduction. Medical cannabis patients have been engaging in substitution by using cannabis as an alternative to alcohol, prescription and illicit drugs.

[mibrains]

i was thinking the exact same thing rest...

 

is it possible to treat alcoholism with cannabis? yes in my humble opinion and limited life experiences it absolutely is.

 

this would be a very very difficult one but i am on board to help wherever i can.