Vaping Co2 Preparations

[Restorium2]

 the natural decarbing and keeping the terpenes

 

You can decarb (or heat for other reasons) at low temps, even as high as 220 F(maybe higher), and keep most all of your terpenes and flavonoids. 

[GrowGoddess]

 the natural decarbing and keeping the terpenes

 

You can decarb (or heat for other reasons) at low temps, even as high as 220 F(maybe higher), and keep most all of your terpenes and flavonoids. 

 

I can somewhat agree with your previous comment, but it seems you have crossed the line here. At 220F or higher, you have lost MOST of the terpenes and flavanoids and damaged what is left behind. Heck the THC and CBD is also damaged at that point.

 

You know darn well that you are just looking for an argument, as usual. You have a sick obsession when it comes to oil and me and I am tired of it. It is fully clear and obvious to me that you have zero experience when it comes to comparing. It is obvious to me you have never had essential terpenes in your oil. Otherwise, you would know the difference. I believe GreyWolf would also disagree with you. The BS information that you post here goes against all science, the credible authors I have read, and all of my experience. This is just an attack on me and a put down on my naturally decarbed oil. Probably because you did not speak of it first.

 

I wish MMMA would ban you. We each know you deserve it and I have nothing else to contribute to this thread. Thanks for once again ruining a good topic, even though we have gone somewhat off topic. We have had this discussion before, then suddenly you disappeared from the forums for a while....

 

I am not going to waste my time loading up photos from my books and digging up the scientific articles to show you and others that you know nothing of what you speak. Only half truths and false information. It appears to me you are jealous and ill. Maybe you are out of medicine.

 

The book titles are posted to my oil blog for those who are interested. The essential oil and herbalist books points out more about the natural decarbing of many types of plants. (I am studying to become licensed in both areas) Link to the blog is above and you can find the books and research for yourselves.

 

Many terpenes, the most valuable actually, are very delicate and can evaporate as easily as alcohol. I can see somebody preferring a heat decarbed oil because the buzz is preferred or different. It is not for me though after having compared. Any heat causes oxydation, evaporation, and degradation to all of the medicinal properties of the cannabis plant. Yes, heat dose assist in decarbing just the same as an oven assists drying fresh harvested flowers. It does not make them any better, just convenient and causes damage to the quality.

 

I would like to apologize to the new readers, but this butting of heads between Resto and I has been going on for years now.

 

I really get the impression Resto, that since you invested so much in your iso machines, you just won't give it up and will defend them at any cost. I hope you are not still buying those things on e-bay. I assure you I can do better with a  $15 rice cooker if I were to want a heat decarbed oil. I no longer have a need for the rice cooker to make oil unless it is an emergency like cancer, because it is convenient to whip up a large amount for an immediate need and ready to use within 24 hours.

[Restorium2]

I should be banned because I crossed the line describing my temperature curve? Just because you disagree with it?

 

Seriously? 

 

LOL

[Restorium2]

Terpenoid essential oils, their boiling points, and properties


ß-myrcene 
Boiling point: 166-168*C / 330.8-334.4 degree Fahrenheit, Properties: Analgesic. Antiinflammatory, Antibiotic, Antimutagenic


d-limonene 
Boiling point: 177*C / 350.6 degree Fahrenheit 
Properties: Cannabinoid agonist?, Immune potentiator, Antidepressant, Antimutagenic

linalool 
Boiling point: 198*C / 388.4 degree Fahrenheit 
Properties: Sedative, Antidepressant, Anxiolytic, Immune potentiator

pulegone 
Boiling point: 224*C / 435.2 degree Fahrenheit 
Properties: Memory booster?, AChE inhibitor, Sedative, Antipyretic

1,8-cineole (eucalyptol) 
Boiling point: 176*C / 348.8 degree Fahrenheit 
Properties: AChE inhibitor, Increases cerebral, blood flow, Stimulant, Antibiotic, Antiviral, Antiinflammatory, Antinociceptive

a-pinene 
Boiling point: 156*C / 312.8 degree Fahrenheit 
Properties: Antiinflammatory, Bronchodilator, Stimulant, Antibiotic, Antineoplastic, AChE inhibitor

a-terpineol 
Boiling point: 217-218*C / 422.6-424.4 degree Fahrenheit 
Properties: Sedative, Antibiotic, AChE inhibitor, Antioxidant, Antimalarial

terpineol-4-ol 
Boiling point: 209*C / 408.2 degree Fahrenheit 
Properties: AChE inhibitor. Antibiotic

p-cymene 
Boiling point: 177*C / 350.6 degree Fahrenheit 
Properties: Antibiotic, Anticandidal, AChE inhibitor



Flavonoid and phytosterol components, their boiling points, and properties


apigenin 
Boiling point: 178*C / 352.4 degree Fahrenheit 
Properties: Anxiolytic, Antiinflammatory, Estrogenic

quercetin 
Boiling point: 250*C / 482 degree Fahrenheit 
Properties: Antioxidant, Antimutagenic, Antiviral, Antineoplastic

cannflavin A 
Boiling point: 182*C / 359.6 degree Fahrenheit 
Properties: COX inhibitor, LO inhibitor

ß-sitosterol 
Boiling point: 134*C / 273.2 degree Fahrenheit 
Properties: Antiinflammatory, 5-a-reductase, inhibitor

[GrowGoddess]

I should be banned because I crossed the line describing my temperature curve? Just because you disagree with it?

 

Seriously? 

 

LOL

 

No, that is not the reason. I thought I stated why quite clearly, but it seems you choose to leave that part out, and I do not find any humor in it either.

 

When one cuts information and quotes it, leaving other valuable information behind as to be misleading, I think that warrants some form of punishment. The line that was crossed was once again providing false information, which drove me to reply.

 

I bet you are real proud of yourself with posting the "boiling points" of the terpenes   The boiling point has nothing to do with what I was talking about. However, it is a nice display of your inexperience and lack of knowledge of the subject matter.

 

Here is the difference sir, I can validate my information and can also show that your statements are false regards to the initial context being discussed. I would rather educate the community than mislead like you chose to.

 

Here is a bubble popping moment for you:

 

This is an excerpt from: International Association for Cannabinoid Medicines, Cannabinoids Vol 7, Issue 1 May 5, 2013 pg 4-5

 

“Besides cannabinoids, the cannabis plant contains a range of terpenes, which are the volatile compounds that give cannabis its distinct smell and may act syner-gistically with cannabinoids [10]. Although preheating the plant material may release more of the known active (neutral) cannabinoids, it may simultaneously also cause loss by degradation or evaporation of components such as terpenes. Our tests were intended to better clarify the balance between desired decarboxylation and unwanted degradation. Unheated cannabis material was analyzed as a control.

 

Figure 1A shows the cannabinoid profile of the decarboxylated samples, obtained by HPLC analysis. The mild water bath treatment did not lead to significant changes in the acidic-to-neutral cannabinoid ratio. In contrast, the oven treatment resulted in a complete decarboxylation of the major cannabinoids detected. THCA, cannabigerolic acid (CBGA) and cannabichromenic acid (CBCA) had all fully converted into THC, cannabigerol (CBG) and cannabichromene (CBC), respectively. Further conversion of THC into its’ main degradation product cannabinol (CBN) only took place to a small degree during the oven treatment. Figures 1B and 1C show the terpene profile acquired in our decarboxylated samples using GC. Compared to the untreated control, monoterpenes (the most volatile class of terpenes) were reduced to about half of their original levels even after exposing the plant material to boiling water for just 5 min. After the more intense oven treatment, only small traces of the monoterpenes terpineol, myrcene and terpinolene could still be detected. As may be expected, the less volatile sesquiterpenes were more resistant to the mild treatment with the water bath. However, most of them were lost in the oven treatment, and only traces of gamma-cadinene and eudesma-3,7(11)-diene remained.

 

These data indicate that significant decarboxylation of the major cannabinoid acids occurs only by exposure to higher temperatures for extended time (oven at 145°C for 30 min), which is in agreement with previous studies [18,22]. However, under these conditions all major terpenes present were affected by significant evaporation. Although milder decarboxylation using a boiling water bath may be efficient when applied for longer time [22], the terpene profile already changes significantly after only 5 min of treatment. For this reason, all further experiments were carried out without application of a preheating step.”

 

Keep in mind befor looking at the graph that is mentioned above that the terpenes that are left behind could be degraded and oxydized. I believe THC and CBDs with suffer similar effects. All of my comparisons over the last 5 years, verify this from hands on experience. The difference is night and day when comparing heat decarbed oil to natural decarbed oil and it is not just the terpenes.

 

Wow! this was only heated to 100C. Also keep in mind there are 133 known terpenes in cannabis, this shows just a few. Look at the damage caused by heat.

 

 

Here is a link to the entire article, it is a PDF document, worth the read.

http://www.bedrocan.nl/userfiles/file/cannabs%20oil%20hazekamp%20Romano.pdf

 

 

[Highlander]

Something to consider....and a point I tried to discuss with a former poster here with no success....

 

It is helpful to identify the boiling points of various therapeutic components of the cannabis plant. But we also need to employ basic knowledge of physics, considering boiling point AND vapor point.

 

Consider water. Water boils at 212 degrees F at sea level. But water evaporates at any temperature above 32 degreesF. And water (ice) will sublimate even at temps below the freezing point. (Not to be pedantic, but to those who don't know, sublimation is when a solid shifts directly to a gas....think dry ice....when you see clouds emmenating from "dry ice," that is a solid changing its physical state directly to a gas.)

 

You can set a pot of water on your stove and not give it any added heat for it to eventually evaporate. The more heat you add, the more quickly the water will become a vapor. You can boil it and quickly boil off the water...or you can heat it to 100F and it won't boil but will vaporize more quickly than if you left it at room temps.

 

Same goes for cannabinoids. Say, for example that you have an oil preparation with a specific cannabinoid you want and that cannabinoid boils at 400F. You can heat the oil to 200F and that cannabinoid won't boil off, but it will experience an accelerated evaporation rate, so you lose some concentration of that cannabinoid even though you don't heat to the boiling point.

[Restorium2]

Sure, evaporation happens.

 

Let's put evaporation of terpenes and flavonoids in context as we experience it with THC:

 

If you look at the boiling point chart I posted you see that most all the terpenes and flavonoids have similar boiling points as THC. Some higher, some lower.

 

We know from cooked medibles that the THC doesn't leave all that easily if heat is used wisely. Since the terpenes and flavonoids have similar boiling points as THC there is no reason to think they evaporate faster than THC. No reason to think they are more volatile than THC, so the ratios of these components should stay the same as some evaporation occurs during gentle heating below their boiling points. 

[Restorium2]

Everything in context, my post that is being contested so vehemently was not stating that you can heat the heck out of oil and lose nothing. What I said we KNOW to be true for THC. So I extrapolated from a known to an unknown. I think it was quite reasonable to make the statement:

 the natural decarbing and keeping the terpenes

 

You can decarb (or heat for other reasons) at low temps, even as high as 220 F(maybe higher), and keep most all of your terpenes and flavonoids. 

Edited August 11, 2015 by Restorium2

[Restorium2]

Knowing the boiling points is useful to adjust ratios in the compound if you go above one components boiling point and staying below other's.  Then you get one part leaving faster than the others, changing the ratios in the oil. 

[Restorium2]

Further;

 

If using a 'different' technique to remove your solvent is giving you some 'really improved' oil, then I would suspect that the method you were using in the first place was the problem, not that your new way is something revolutionary. 

Many of us use some heat wisely and patiently to remove the solvent with fantastic results we can repeat endlessly.

Many of us also use some heat wisely and patiently to coax all the cannabinoids into our oil.

Many of us have also learned how to remove unwanted parts from our oil using freezing cold temperatures.

Many of us use heat to make medibles that are awesome and powerful.

This has been the case for thousands of years now. Nothing new. The power of fire and ice have been used with cannabis for a long time.

[trichcycler]

I've noticed the red oil extracted from a fresh(right now) plant is vastly different in appearance, flavor, viscosity and effect when compared to a plant dried for a week.

 

Tastes very good, but so does the week old plant, just different.

Effect from the "fresh" is way up on the heart rate/alertness/paranoia scale

compared to the "normal" from week old plant. I always guessed it to

be the difference between decarb'd and not.

 

My scissor hash comes from whole living plants at harvest but after a couple weeks when its time to clean

the results are good hash with effects just like the week old plant extract, unlike the fresh one.   neato, I love growing medical cannabis!!!

[GrowGoddess]

Edit 2:  Here is another perspective to consider that most people here in the community have experienced. Instead of boiling points, let's talk about vaping bud. I am very confident that when a bud vaporizer is set to a low temperature it does not activate the THC, but you are getting something, even if there is no vapor cloud. That something you are getting is terpenes, and possibly even CBD. With my vaporizer for buds, I notice the subtle effects at the low temperatures. I have to crank up the heat to get the THC effects. This is due to each element requiring different temperatures and there is a very noticeable difference.

 

Edit 3: Another example that should be taken in consideration. It is popular in the medical marijuana community, but I don't see much of it here. I must say, many of the experienced BHO makers I have seen online, I have seen the majority switching to using very expensive vacuum ovens to purge their product. As time went on, many pointed out the best purge temp to be 110F. They say the reason is to keep all of the terpenes and flavanoids they can. Most claim any temps over 110F, you lose all of the taste (flavanoids/terpenes). They don't even decarb it, just want to purge it. It takes many hours, sometimes days if they want to keep the flavanoids and terpenes. Fear not, one more edit is to come LOL!

 

In case you missed it: 

 

This is an excerpt from: International Association for Cannabinoid Medicines, Cannabinoids Vol 7, Issue 1 May 5, 2013 pg 4-5

 

“Besides cannabinoids, the cannabis plant contains a range of terpenes, which are the volatile compounds that give cannabis its distinct smell and may act syner-gistically with cannabinoids [10]. Although preheating the plant material may release more of the known active (neutral) cannabinoids, it may simultaneously also cause loss by degradation or evaporation of components such as terpenes. Our tests were intended to better clarify the balance between desired decarboxylation and unwanted degradation. Unheated cannabis material was analyzed as a control.

 

Figure 1A shows the cannabinoid profile of the decarboxylated samples, obtained by HPLC analysis. The mild water bath treatment did not lead to significant changes in the acidic-to-neutral cannabinoid ratio. In contrast, the oven treatment resulted in a complete decarboxylation of the major cannabinoids detected. THCA, cannabigerolic acid (CBGA) and cannabichromenic acid (CBCA) had all fully converted into THC, cannabigerol (CBG) and cannabichromene (CBC), respectively. Further conversion of THC into its’ main degradation product cannabinol (CBN) only took place to a small degree during the oven treatment. Figures 1B and 1C show the terpene profile acquired in our decarboxylated samples using GC. Compared to the untreated control, monoterpenes (the most volatile class of terpenes) were reduced to about half of their original levels even after exposing the plant material to boiling water for just 5 min. After the more intense oven treatment, only small traces of the monoterpenes terpineol, myrcene and terpinolene could still be detected. As may be expected, the less volatile sesquiterpenes were more resistant to the mild treatment with the water bath. However, most of them were lost in the oven treatment, and only traces of gamma-cadinene and eudesma-3,7(11)-diene remained.

 

These data indicate that significant decarboxylation of the major cannabinoid acids occurs only by exposure to higher temperatures for extended time (oven at 145°C for 30 min), which is in agreement with previous studies [18,22]. However, under these conditions all major terpenes present were affected by significant evaporation. Although milder decarboxylation using a boiling water bath may be efficient when applied for longer time [22], the terpene profile already changes significantly after only 5 min of treatment. For this reason, all further experiments were carried out without application of a preheating step.”

 

Keep in mind befor looking at the graph that is mentioned above that the terpenes that are left behind could be degraded and oxydized. I believe THC and CBDs with suffer similar effects. All of my comparisons over the last 5 years, verify this from hands on experience. The difference is night and day when comparing heat decarbed oil to natural decarbed oil and it is not just the terpenes.

 

Wow! this was only heated to 100C. Also keep in mind there are 133 known terpenes in cannabis, this shows just a few. Look at the damage caused by heat.

 

Here is a link to the entire article, it is a PDF document, worth the read. I highly recommend everyone to read this document. They show comparisons of different solvents. Keep in mind, with glycerine extracts, they don't last as long as alcohol and can go rancid much easier than alcohol extractions.

http://www.bedrocan....kamp Romano.pdf

 

 

According to my essential oil and herbatology books along with additional research, natural decarbing has been in practice for thousands of years. Nobody really knows how long these methods have been used. At one time it was considered a lost art due to it being considered witchcraft.  Maybe it is in my blood?

 

 

 

That's interesting grassmatch, I haven't gotten around to trying to make oil with fresh bud yet. It is on my to do list though. I prefer the more calm mellow buzz over the high anxiety. Anxiety or not, I still want to try it. Don't know until you try eh? That is why I prefer the naturally decarbed oil, just a personal preference putting medicinal aside, they offer low anxiety and a longer lasting buzz. The RSO I make offers an intense high anxiety buzz that last have as long as the ND Sap. If it were for managing cancer, I would recommend oil made with the RSO method since there have been well documented successes. I would also eat fresh bud daily as well as using the ND Sap to play it safe.

 

 

Edit: Oh yah, HIghlander, kind of off topic but it does have to do with vaporizing of terpenes. All of my books recommend using a diffuser for essential oils. They do not use heat, but it increases the vapor production. They recommend these because any heat can damage the terpenes and reduce the therapeutic effects with essential oils (terpene extracts).

Here is a quick example of an essential oil diffuser. http://www.vitaminworld.com/diffuser/aromaharmony-diffuser-with-bluetooth-0070058535.html?scid=32691&cmp=gpl&gclid=Cj0KEQjwuqauBRDhnfvnxMvKy6UBEiQAmTLQuzvGlrc1Vog6CoadEpjTS0f6iW1Dpf22YEE5VtmcZ5MaApu88P8HAQ

Can't wait to try one with frankincense and some of my other oils. I enjoy the aroma and the effects. I get a lot of headaches and peppermint essential oil helps a lot.

 

 

Edit 4: All this talk about terpenes. It has been a while. I am usually eat the oil, but I love vaping the oil with the terpenes, but it can be expensive. I took the dropper out of one of my vials that was quite low of ND Sap and attached the vial to my eclipse. Boy do I have a good buzz going. I love terpenes!

Edited August 11, 2015 by GrowGoddess

[trichcycler]

The effects of vaporized cannabis extract  are already being altered with the post addition of supplemental terpenes. After reading about this going on in California and Colorado dispensaries I gave some a try. I own many of the ones found in cannabis, for a "someday I'll build my own" thought.  These like other essential oils are very powerful medicines. The effects can be noticeably enhanced and even totally changed with the additions. I don't know enough about the effects of each, and I didn't grow the sources either, so my vaporizing effects are limited, but one that sticks in my mind is d-Limonene, the very first one I heard of being added to commercially available concentrates too. Varying this terpene alone will greatly affect a cannabis experience. Similar can be had with an aroma session before partaking in the sacred herb, my favorite practice btw. I first reach for alpha-pinene/dlimonene/myrcene...in that order. We love the pine/menthol/fuely strains here. Linalool is avoided in and out of the garden mostly. just sharing

 

I grow in selective composting including items like pine needles, lemon rinds, melons, etc and can influence an already existing terpene profile this way. really, I do love growing medical cannabis.

 

peace

[Restorium2]

Back to the science of cannabis;

What makes you 'think' that terpenes are more volatile than THC and would boil off, or evaporate, quicker than THC?

Hint; I'll put up the this cheat sheet again to help you out.

THC boiling point; 314.6F

 

ß-myrcene Boiling point: 166-168*C / 330.8-334.4 degree Fahrenheit Properties: Analgesic. Antiinflammatory, Antibiotic, Antimutagenic

ß-caryophyllene Boiling point: 119*C / 246.2 degree Fahrenheit Properties: Antiinflammatory, Cytoprotective (gastric mucosa), Antimalarial

d-limonene Boiling point: 177*C / 350.6 degree Fahrenheit Properties: Cannabinoid agonist?, Immune potentiator, Antidepressant, Antimutagenic

linalool Boiling point: 198*C / 388.4 degree Fahrenheit Properties: Sedative, Antidepressant, Anxiolytic, Immune potentiator

pulegone Boiling point: 224*C / 435.2 degree Fahrenheit Properties: Memory booster?, AChE inhibitor, Sedative, Antipyretic

1,8-cineole (eucalyptol) Boiling point: 176*C / 348.8 degree Fahrenheit Properties: AChE inhibitor, Increases cerebral, blood flow, Stimulant, Antibiotic, Antiviral, Antiinflammatory, Antinociceptive

a-pinene Boiling point: 156*C / 312.8 degree Fahrenheit Properties: Antiinflammatory, Bronchodilator, Stimulant, Antibiotic, Antineoplastic, AChE inhibitor

a-terpineol Boiling point: 217-218*C / 422.6-424.4 degree Fahrenheit Properties: Sedative, Antibiotic, AChE inhibitor, Antioxidant, Antimalarial

terpineol-4-ol Boiling point: 209*C / 408.2 degree Fahrenheit Properties: AChE inhibitor. Antibiotic

p-cymene Boiling point: 177*C / 350.6 degree Fahrenheit Properties: Antibiotic, Anticandidal, AChE inhibitor

[Restorium2]

Has anyone ever ate a medible cooked at 300 F for a half an hour? Anyone beside me? Any anecdotal evidence of what the heat did to it? Was it 'ruined'? Or did it still have a considerable cannabinoidal effect on you?

[GrowGoddess]

An interesting article in regards to cannabis and terpenes. Interesting to see that some terpenes will even evaporate below room temperature.

http://cannabisdigest.ca/cannabis-terpene-synergy/

[Restorium2]

An interesting article in regards to cannabis and terpenes. Interesting to see that some terpenes will even evaporate below room temperature.

http://cannabisdigest.ca/cannabis-terpene-synergy/

They say they evaporate but do not explain the science behind evaporation.

 

The chemical bonds, and how strong they are, decide the rate of evaporation. There's no guessing about it. Boiling points also show how strong the bonds are. So the rate of evaporation would be related to the boiling points. You can get a good idea of the evaporation rate from looking to the boiling points in the chart I posted above. As you can see the boiling points are fairly high. Comparable to that of THC. Some higher some a little lower.

[GrowGoddess]

I am dumbfounded....

 

Evaporation is just as scientific as boiling points

 

Amazing, in the winter, my dogs water bowl is lower in the morning without boiling. No additional heat, and he is caged at night so it can't be that he got up and had a drink in the middle on the night. An anomaly? Could it be the science of evaporation? Could it be the humidity or lack there of? Airflow and temperatures do have an effect on the rate of evaporation.

 

I wonder, what is the boiling point of brain cells?

[Restorium2]

I am dumbfounded....

 

Evaporation is just as scientific as boiling points

 

Amazing, in the winter, my dogs water bowl is lower in the morning without boiling. No additional heat, and he is caged at night so it can't be that he got up and had a drink in the middle on the night. An anomaly? Could it be the science of evaporation? Could it be the humidity or lack there of? Airflow and temperatures do have an effect on the rate of evaporation.

 

I wonder, what is the boiling point of brain cells?

The boiling point of water is lower than all the terpenes in the chart. Thank God for that.

 

It evaporates very easily too. Not an anomaly at all, it'a good example for comparison. All the terpenes are MORE stable than water. Kind of puts things in perspective. 

 

When evaporation happens among components with similar boiling points the ratios will stay somewhat the same. So what you brought to the party will have the same effects but your total volume will be less. If you brought a lot to the party then you don't have to fear it being totally gone. Just a little diminished but still in the same ratio as it was before evaporation.

 

Just because you can smell something doesn't mean that you are losing that faster, it just means it's something your nose can detect more easily. What does THC smell like? It's there right next to the terpenes but you don't smell it.  Water evaporates easily but you don't smell that either. To say something is evaporating quickly because you can smell it is not science. It's reacting to your senses without knowing the science of evaporation. 

[GrowGoddess]

Well, it happened again. Last time I vaped the remains in my vial, it was good and all, but this was far better. This has been naturally decarbing for about a year, just cracked it open today. Ate about 4 drops 10 minutes ago and I feel it coming on strong. Super tasty, no sticky residue, quick dissolving, no taste of solvent, 100% organic, and delicious.

 

Feeling Good!

 

[Restorium2]

That's great! Patient accounts are far better than these funky web cut and pastes that just are wrong. Like what they said about The Kush Family. They have no idea about Kush at all and fake it up. Just like trying to say they smell terpenes so they are gone like a whiff in the wind. All hype without any substance. 

 

I can't wait until you get the real reasons why this long term rest makes it better. I'm not doubting what you are feeling at all. I'm just trying to find out the mechanism behind it. I have oil that is over 6 years old in the freezer and I swear it's exactly the same as when I put it in there. Awesome on day one and awesome to this day 6 years later. No change. 

 

A question for you; If you didn't boil off the alcohol how do you scientifically know it is gone? 

 

I use science to know it is gone by boiling it off. I wouldn't feel as comfortable with oil that might still have alcohol in it.

[Restorium2]

Food for thought;

 

You quick washed right? I'm betting you missed a lot of the mellowing agents doing that. When I quick wash I get a product that is very psychoactive. Like a brain bomb. Too strong for my liking. Makes me nervous and jittery. Easily overdosed. I like it more mellow. I find I only get that from a longer wash. 

[GrowGoddess]

I have no fear of organic grain alcohol.

 

I can tell it is gone by the taste and when vaporizing. No gagging fumes when vaping. No burning when ingesting.

 

I like to make the oil in the winter when the humidity is next to zero. The solvent will evaporate more quickly and I do not need to use a fan to try to speed the process. Besides, a fan blowing across the pan of cannabis infused solvent will also cause the terpenes to become partially lost.

 

Yes, the oil in the freezer stayed the same. Even if it were uncooked, like QWISO, I don't believe it will be able to naturally decarb due to the suspension of zero degrees.

 

These two books explain the natural decarbing, which has been known for thousands of years. Rosemary Gladstar's Herbal Recipes for Vibrant Health and Rosemary Gladstar's Medicinal Herbs, A Beginner's Guide.

 

The only thing I have not figured out is the exact amount of time it takes to naturally decarb. Sometimes it is within 100 days, and others 4 months. Not sure if it is strain related, solvent related, ambient temperature, etc. I can tell it is done when CO2 is no longer being produced.

 

You know how with QWISO when you eat some it has a bland taste? Kept in a more liquid form, sealed in a vial, after it begins to naturally decarb, flavors/taste become obvious. Not as sticky either. This is based upon observation, which is a part of the scientific process.

[GrowGoddess]

Food for thought;

 

You quick washed right? I'm betting you missed a lot of the mellowing agents doing that. When I quick wash I get a product that is very psychoactive. Like a brain bomb. Too strong for my liking. Makes me nervous and jittery. Easily overdosed. I like it more mellow. I find I only get that from a longer wash. 

 

Funny, it must be different body chemistry offering different effects. I have found that I get the exact opposite effects between long soak and quick wash. However, I do the quick wash three to four times aggressively shaking with the same bud material to capture the most I can.

 

Heat decarb is also a factor in the effects, whether quick wash or long soak. I will admit, I have only compared long soak and quick wash effects with a heat decarbed oil.

[t-pain]

We welcome all discussion, just don't fight too rough. Agree to disagree. Also, grow goddess and resto, feel free to post links to sites with info.

 

That's the way we learn, by reading others experiences