Canceled Insurance

[PFC Stone]

 

My agent called and stated that he has found a company willing to write insurance for cannabis "purposes."

 

Lexington Insurance, a sub-sidiary of AIG. Waiting on a quote. I'm sure it's going to hurt!

 

I have found Cannassure as an alternative as well.

[t-pain]

went looking for answers as to what starts on fire.

 

here are some good threads with information to read.

 

in one of the grow books it says make sure you count all circuits and whats on them and go under. so if a circuit is rated 15amp, make sure there is less than 12 amps on it.

 

you can count based on the stickers they put on the devices, should measure each thing with a kill-a-watt just to be certain.

 

common theme is hot wires, flammable objects in grow rooms (rags, wood), water hitting electronics, faulty wires/plugs.

 

need something non flammable to set things (ballast) on?

large clay garden pot.

 

"arc fault breaker"

 

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=24347

 

 

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=15468

 

 

cords should not be laying on carpet or flammable things. or laying across holes in floors/walls.

 

http://sensiseeds.com/en/blog/top-five-tips-grow-room-safety/

 

I had a MH bulb catch fire on me after a hot start once. I was new to the game and didnt know that the bulbs needed a cool down period. Tripped over the cord..knocked it out then immediately plugged it back in. So i guess i would add power outages to the list of things to be concerned about. They sell delay timers that wont turn on for 15 mins if power is interrupted but they're a but pricey.

never heard of this before. some ballasts have protections for this and some do not? or maybe he was using a wrong bulb for that ballast? well its something to check.

[mibrains]

my ballasts all recommend a 15 minute shut down period before attempting to restart...

 

i did not know it was because of fire risk with the bulb...

 

i have always tried to ensure that time frame happens... once in a while i have plugged one in directly..\

 

last fall i pulled all 3 fire extinguishers out of my closet and actually installed them.

 

one is located just outside the grow facility.

one is located in my kitchen

one is located in my master bedroom. (if a fire breaks out while i am sleeping its the last chance to clear a path to a window)

 

overheated wires are a real and dangerous concern as well as use of extension cords and multi point outlet adapters...

 

i know when i rebuilt my facility this last fall i had to install 6 gauge wire for the light controller and 8 gauge for the air conditioner....thick a s s wire.... i have never worked with 6 before but it was like trying to install a piece of steel... PITA bending it around a corner and getting it through the wall stud hole was quite the task... but the instructions require a 50 amp dedicated breaker and 6 gauge wire so thats what i did...

 

the most important thing to remember when it comes to fire prevention and electrical products is to be sure to READ AND FOLLOW the manufactures recommendations even if (like myself quoted above) you do not know why its important..

[trichcycler]

I pulled permits and hired a pro to do my 200 amp wiring. I also installed those hanging fire extinguishers over ALL of the electrical area/ballasts/controllers. had insurance for a couple years, required monitoring service, paperwork sharing, photo's and an interview. the policy covered plant deaths at the time, due to flood, fire, theft, power outage only. All of my ballasts were upgraded to the generator ready ones, they have an auto shut down/start up  sequence(to avoid hot starts) .  when I had hard line service my room would call me with temperature fluctuations, fire, water, movement, breach, RH, etc. with cell service I enjoy none of those luxuries any longer. it all seemed so much more important to me when growing hydro, not sure why, buzzing pumps, monitors, etc, more extension cords, dunno.  Digi ballasts cause less fires than magnetic ones I think.

I keep a dozen extinguishers in and around the house, farm, barn, garden, garage, bedroom, cars. Still, fire hurts, and its always on my mind.

[PFC Stone]

I hired a pro as well for all wiring of my room. Grow room has it's own 125 Amp box with dedicated circuits, 50 amp hard wire for new controller. We replaced every cheap 15 amp outlet for 20 amp outlets and wired each on their own. Before the upgrades I would plug a ballast in and then a fan in the 15 amp outlets...BOOM! Kicked breaker. Now I have a light controller with each ballast has their own 20 amp circuit. I did not get any permits though. This weekend I'm adding a fire extinguisher, and will be giving deep thought on fire protection

 

 

Edited January 28, 2016 by PFC Stone

[trichcycler]

for the record I never had a spark, a tripped breaker, a hot ballast, melted breaker goo.

I have had one ac failure needing to be replaced, and two box fan failures, neither were sparked/flamed/smoked though. These concern me more than my 50 amp controller/ballast/c02 generator-- combined.  I'm going to hang my box fan from the ceiling soon, and mount another auto fire control over the top of the ac unit now that I think about it. thanks to input in these threads

My c02 gen is hanging from a ceiling about three feet. I can hold my hand on the top of it indefinitely. Its got a tip shut off, and all the safety bells and whistles, no concern there anymore with o2 sensor, carbon monoxide sensor. still seems weird to operate a bbq grill burner type indoors but I've had no issues. adds a bit of humidity and heat but I'm equipped to handle that and its worth it I think. I spend minimal time inside of the rooms anymore, but in the first years it was like a man cave experience. Literally a tropical getaway for me anytime I wanted. Even the lights added to the effects. I used to grow fruits and vegetables in there along side of cannabis and the smells combined were over the top. I still grow ancient herbs but no other veggies. I lighten my registry in winter months and admit spending more time during summer months in he garden. Working in there is easier for me in the summer compared to winter.

 

Still not sure why I settled on living in a place where the air hurts my face

[Restorium2]

If you have a questionable connection where you plug in a HID ballast, like where it plugs into an extension cord or power strip, you can have a melt down of the plastic cord end where it is getting a bad connection. That has always been the worst case scenario in my rooms even with great wiring and breaker boxes. So make sure these connections are really good and isolated from other combustibles.  Same with your Christmas lights.

[Restorium2]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zodSAVwXACA

Like in the video I posted earlier; If your shingles are looking dry and curled up you just might have an issue with heat in your attic that may eventually cause a fire.

[Wild Bill]

A fireman friend once told me that the two of the biggest offenders in house fires are clothes dryers and coffee makers.

[Restorium2]

A fireman friend once told me that the two of the biggest offenders in house fires are clothes dryers and coffee makers.

Good call. Get that lint out from under your cloths drier. If you can, put a small piece of sheet metal under there because when the heating element goes bad it can drop hot embers on the floor. 

Edited January 28, 2016 by Restorium2

[Wild Bill]

Good call. Get that lint out from under your close drier. If you can, put a small piece of sheet metal under there because when the heating element goes bad it can drop hot embers on the floor. 

 

I thought the protocol would be to make possession of coffee makers and dryers punishable by 15 years in prison.  For the children.

[pic book]

pfcstone--id drop any idea of suing 

they'll claim you knew of a risk within your residence yet you did not disclose----and they are right.

what are your damages during the time you were covered-----zilcho-----case dismissed with u paying your atty and if they are mean, theirs as well.

Edited January 31, 2016 by pic book

[PFC Stone]

Pic, I was never going to sue but it sure sounds fun! I just want to be insured and left alone. Legalize please.

[t-pain]

https://www.usfa.fema.gov/downloads/pdf/statistics/v14i12.pdf

 

Few, if any, building codes require smoke alarms in resi-

dential garages, so very few garages have smoke alarms

installed.

[PFC Stone]

 

Well it's been about 10 days and I have NOT heard boo from my canceling agent.

 

So I shopped around a bit and found an agency willing to write me a new homeowner policy that covers a legal MMMP operation...

Once I have a Declaration of Insurance I'll share the name of said company with you.

[Murph]

Know this is kinda old to respond to ....

 

We all agree this nonsense needs fixed NOW and I think (hope) most here are active pressuring the Reps/Sen to support reforms

as the Mich. Court of Appeals has eviscerated most of the protections in the Mich MMA, 

 

But If you ever have to have someone in to do repairs, claims, inspect. I would remove ALL grow equipment. I know personally

it is a hassle and can do damage, but we have little choice these days. Even Consumers/DTE is the enemy now, and they are

essentially part of the Gov., now as are many private companies.

 

I think if you had done that before you had the claims guy over, you would not have the issue.

 

Making sure you have H1 or H2 homeowner's coverage (which does not exclude much of anything) is needed. costs more but its necessary,

As far as telling on yourself up front, not good idea - as you are screwing yourself given the current situation in 2016.

 

Upgrading all home utilities that handle grows is a must-do especially wiring upgrades to atleast 20 amp. wiring (12ga) and maybe more, is in order

with appropriate breaker panels -- everything -- which we know most people do not going to do upfront.

 

Finally, owning your place is another thing -- renters have the issue of NOT having complete control over their property, as they do not own it, a landlord

can and could consent to a search (which one never ever wants to consent to ANY search under ANY circumstances -- once they have that your cooked)

 

Lastly, make sure you have a practiced plan to break down everything and advance plans where it will go to continue growing on a temp basis (and that

place can handle the added load and stress) if you have to move it, as well as a utility van with card carry person to help as even transporting nowdays

requires specific requirements to avoid any problems if pulled over in the process (which one would go to extreme measures to avoid any chance of).

 

Finally, according to current COA decisions, even letting the Adjuster in would have been a violation - no? Only the card carry grower themselves is allowed

in the locked enclosed facility ever - no one else can enter, so that is another reason just to move it, do the insurance stuff (and make sure you wait a few

days after in case they need to come back) before you return every thing....yeah, it sucks, but better safe than sorry

 

(and yes insurance companies have databases they ALL check with "intelligence" on insureds....anc claims.....I would have said eat the costs less than $1500-$2000

rather than risk making a claim, these days insurance should ONLY be used for major things, the days of them being fair are over.....

[trichcycler]

Well it's been about 10 days and I have NOT heard boo from my canceling agent.

 

So I shopped around a bit and found an agency willing to write me a new homeowner policy that covers a legal MMMP operation...

Once I have a Declaration of Insurance I'll share the name of said company with you.

update??

 

and do you mean to say the policy "covers home owners with a mmmp operation inside", or actually "covers the legal mmmp operation, including losses and damages occurring within the mmmp operation?

 

thank  you

[PFC Stone]

Well, I simply forgot to post as I stated I would. I do apologize!

 

Murph, Thanks for the response. I have put a fair amount of planning into my operation and safety is one of the key factors that drives the operation. We purchased this home based on safety for a legal caregiving operation and made mad upgrades to include a 22w generator, a separate 125 amp sub panel installed, each room rewired with 20 amp outlets and wire in 3 separate rooms by a journeyman electrician. Each room is equipped with steel doors and deadbolts, etc...I could go on but you get the drift. As far as breaking my gear down for entry...that is NOT gonna happen AND no body will have access period from here on! So the first was on me for doing the right thing when deep inside I knew the risk of doing so. The insurance company, Auto Owners eventually paid the max amount of the policy while waiving the deductible and simultaneously cancelling the policy. Good riddance.

 

Grassmatch, I can find no specific language in my policy regarding a legal caregiving/grow operation being covered. I can only take the agent from Allstate at his word that a claim would be paid as he stated-even if it is a legal MMJ caregiver operation. Risky? Yes, with caveat. I simply want Home Owners Insurance - ONLY! I have no intention, nor have I ever had intentions of submitting a MMJ claim. Having said that, I believe it a valid policy as is with or without covering medicinal grade cannabis and all equipment.

Edited May 19, 2016 by PFC Stone

[Scarlet_Begonias]

I'd suggest you also set up a meeting with an attorney specializing in homeowners insurance policies, to simply review the policy. That goes for any of us with homeowners insurance policy holders. Mine had cost a few dollars, he just went over all the language in the policy and noted issues that needed to me amended. Have a name if you need one. He also used to do free Friday phone consult.

[Willy]

if you dont have it specifically mentioned, you dont have much of a chance, they will find a clause that says, they weren 't aware of it so they dont/can't cover it..  In my case they will cover the contents of a room indoors, but the catch is the grow set up. They hve to know it was there.. thats the big one,, hate to say it but ya gotta tell them if you want to feel confident that is covered. 

 

As a side note,, i have outbuilding insurance..  if a tree comes down and crushes it , and its contents are damaged as well. they dont cover the inside stuff, unless i itemize it ahead of time.   it has a straight out cost they'll pay me, in my case that is 3500. per building. including any contents.. In house, its the same way, but it says covers up too 5k per room for contents. I use state farm, im sure some are different but that is how mine works. non itemized loss has to be established before hand. 

 

I am glad they paided out, imho you were lucky they did.. hard to win with insurance comp. 

Edited May 19, 2016 by Willy

[PFC Stone]

Yes, I do feel lucky all things considered. I've learned a very good lesson in the proce

 

if you dont have it specifically mentioned, you dont have much of a chance, they will find a clause that says, they weren 't aware of it so they dont/can't cover it..  In my case they will cover the contents of a room indoors, but the catch is the grow set up. They hve to know it was there.. thats the big one,, hate to say it but ya gotta tell them if you want to feel confident that is covered. 

 

As a side note,, i have outbuilding insurance..  if a tree comes down and crushes it , and its contents are damaged as well. they dont cover the inside stuff, unless i itemize it ahead of time.   it has a straight out cost they'll pay me, in my case that is 3500. per building. including any contents.. In house, its the same way, but it says covers up too 5k per room for contents. I use state farm, im sure some are different but that is how mine works. non itemized loss has to be established before hand. 

 

I am glad they paided out, imho you were lucky they did.. hard to win with insurance comp. 

[rkdent]

i found this for Michigan. http://michigan-marijuana-lawyer.com/growing-marijuana-in-your-home-may-cost-you/