I would have to say yes medmanmike.

Technically there are not any impurities. Pretty much everything about the cannabis plant has some form of usable value.

Even the stems are usable and the seeds. Hemp seed oil for instance. Ground up stems are extremely high in fiber, a great supplement over medimucal.

I have been keeping the coffee filters from each extraction and keeping the remains jarred up and set aside. Not sure yet what I plan to do with it yet. If I believe it is worth it, I can use it separately. For instance, it can be made into a tincture and take that with the RSO dose.

I would have to assume most of the stuff left in the coffee filter has some form of medicinal qualities as long as it is not contaminated with pesticides or chemical fertilizers. I don't use any of that stuff in my grow.

Seems like most foods these days are laced with poison unless you make it yourself.

That is why I am trying to stick with NF additives. Just being USP does not give me that much confidence. NF/USP is more globally accepted and I feel better in the back of my head using products like that.

You can get PEG400 USP or pay a little extra and get the PEG400 NF/USP.

gg, another question for you.  I see your reference to QWET, but couldn't find an explanation as to what it stands for on your blog. I googled and found Cannafarms explanation.  Same thing?  They use heat, right, but you still do a cold extraction?  Is QWET and your ND TAR the same thing? Thanks.

QWET = Quick Wash Ethenal

I saw northern labs post somewhere on the forums what they all mean (QWISO, QWET, and others). That is why I chose ND Sap. Non Decarbed Sap. Sap is known as a thick clean looking cannabis oil with no explanation of what solvent was used. At least that is how I see it.

I do not use heat. If it is humid and you are stuck with just water after the alcohol is evaporated, you will have to pour off the water and recover the THC from it later.

Usually QWISO and QWET are not known to be ingested as far as I know. Letting it naturally decarb over 3 to 4 months, and if no heat was used, it is a superior oil compared to RSO. It should have more medicinal properties. The heat is a known culprit to degrading some of the qualities. Not to say RSO is no good, I just believe the naturally decarbed oil is better.

Yes, it is with a cold wash. I pretty much only do frozen washes. Now, if I were making oil to fight a serious illness, the prettiness of the oil would not be as important to me. The most important thing would be using quality buds.

Some of the most potent oil I have ever ingested was like a black tar. Higher in CBN which can work similar to antibiotics and can have a strong effect on the THC buzz. A bit undesirable for me. The really clean oil with higher THC is more enjoyable for me.

All I can do is give my opinion on that. I have not handled Kief Hash. Also, I have only done this once so far.

 

Take a small sample of your kief and see if it will dissolve in 190 proof or higher grain alcohol. If it will dissolve without heat (weather or not it dissolves may not matter, not sure) anyway, I would dilute it with the alcohol and run it through a coffee filter. Let it evaporate and see what happens.

 

If it works, you can always put the kief in a small jar with some of the grain alcohol. Shake it up real well as if it were buds. I have seen other people use kief to make RSO because that was all they had. They ended up with a nice oil product. I was not able to sample it, but the color looked real good.

 

You may want to just try one gram. It sucks to have to wait 90 days, but I think it will work.

gg, just wanted to follow up re doing a cold extraction with the kief hash.  I used one gram of kief and Everclear and followed your ND Tar instructions.  I did this extraction on July 30.  Last night, for the first time, I took my little spoon from the Stevia (sweetener) jar and filled it with the extracted kief that looks more like, you may recall, a putty rather than tar. This "spoon" is 1/64 of a Tablespoon.  Meaning, not much.  I put it in a 00 gel cap to consume.  WOW!  Very strong high.  The "up" lasted for a solid two hours - very smooth, very up, very calm.  The "down" was a little rougher - some anxiety, a feeling of "too much", etc.  The negative feelings didn't last very long.  I took the cap at 5:30 before dinner.  It hit me during dinner, about 6:15 and I still was feeling the body high when I went to bed at 10:30.  

I had vaped the kief previously, (same quantity) - both alone and added to some bud.  Both produced a very good buzz, etc., but nothing compared to the "putty."

The "putty" had sat, naturally decarbing for three weeks. My plan is to try it again at 30, 60 and 90 days to see if anything changes.  Any suggestings you have for monitoring or detailing the experience would be appreciated.

Next project is to make a QWET oil!

gg, getting ready to do a QWET extraction with new bud.  Wondering if when you have the time if you would review my summarization of your instructions.  Please note any errors or misunderstandings.  

1.  Good quality, bone dry buds

           ? do you just air dry the buds?  My buds are in jars with a Boveda 62% RH pack.  How do you tell when they're dry enough?

2.  Place in mason jar - stick in freezer for a min. of 48 hours

3.  Place solvent (190+ ET) in mason jar - stick in freezer for a min. of 48 hours.

4.  Quickly pour solvent over dried buds about half way and shake.  Buds should crumble. Shake for about a minute.

5. Pour into wire mesh strainer over bowl.

6. Put bud material back in jar, add fresh solvent, and shake again. Process two additional times (total 3).

     When you say "high quality" vs "low quality" do you keep the washes separate for the filtering/evaporating steps?

      What do you do with the filtered sediment? Is it usable? 

7.  Filter through a metal mesh or paper coffee filter.

8.  Move to a pyrex baking dish. 

     ​I'm assuming this should be covered with cheesecloth to keep unfriendlies out.

9.  Use no heat.  Use a breeze or low fan.

10.  If white foam shows, add some more solvent and stir

11.  Transfer the mixture to a metal cup, tip the cup slightly and let a fan blow over it. Cover with paper coffee filter.

12.  Let evaporate until the concentrate is a think sap.

13.  Move the sap into brown vials. May need to use a heating mat to liquify the sap slightly to suck it up.

14.  Store in the dark for 90+ days.

I have all of your various "colored" comments, but left them out to keep this short.  I believe I have the gist of it (the process) but would appreciate your review before I begin.  Thxs!

I wonder if your kief was somewhat already naturally decarbed before you made the oil with it.  If I remember correctly, you received the kief from a friend. I wonder how old the buds were before the kief was made. How old was the kief. All very interesting. Maybe that is why it decarbed so quickly, maybe not...

I have come across a putty for my first time. It was from a QWET run without paper filtering. If diluted with alcohol then filtered with a paper filter it will come out cleaner looking and be like a sticky sap.

1. As dry as you can get them is when they are dry enough. The more dry the buds are the more quickly they will break apart when shaking in the solvent. Then that is the more quickly you can get the solvent drained off of the buds. In effect, less chlorophyll and high amounts of medicinal properties.

I simply air dry my buds. It is much easier in the winter especially since we burn wood for heat and it is a very dry heat.

3. I just put the whole bottle of the 190+ proof grain alcohol in the freezer.   A nice thing about the 750mL bottles of the grain alcohol vs. the pint plastic bottles of the 99% iso is the glass grain alcohol bottles help to keep the solvent cold.

6. The third and/or fourth rinse I like to keep separate from the first 1 to 3 rinses. I like to try to get the most out of my material. When I am finished with a jar and all done extracting, I will keep the bud material in the jar, seal it, then flip it upside down. Every 5 or 10 minutes, I will crack it open and allow it to drip into the lower quality batch. I will do that 3 or 4 times so I can get as much of the solvent out. It will have more chlorophyll and that is why I keep the last batch separate.

As for the filtered sediment. Well, I don't know yet. It may be worth using. I have been allowing it to dry out and have been saving it in a small jar. (just started doing this).

8. I prefer this for QWET, keeping in mind I do not have much experience with QWET. I prefer to just use the reusable coffee filter, no need for cheesecloth, knowing I will be using a paper filter later in the process. What I do is when I believe all of the alcohol is evaporated and there is only water left, I will pour the water off into the lower grade batch. I will then allow it to finish air drying. Dilute it with a small amount of fresh alcohol, then pour it through a coffee filter right into the purge pan. NO HEAT. Then I will have the fan blow on the purge pan. If it is going to take more than a day, I will put a coffee filter over it and secure it with a rubber band.

I will do the same with the lower grade batch. I pour the water off the lower grade batch into a small pan. I will recover that later with some alcohol. It makes a big difference on cleaning up both batches with the QWET, at least it did for me on my last two runs. I still got a good amount of oil. I haven't really tried the premium oil that I made from the QWET yet, but I must say, the batch I made with Strawberry Cough is the best looking yet. I have not tried it yet.

10. I just allow the white foam to build up and pour it off once it seems all of the alcohol has evaporated. As noted above. Most of the good stuff puttys up.

I was able to pour my last sap from the purge pan into the vial. I used a mini spatula to help it along. Way too thick for a syringe. It is being stored now and I hope 90 days will do it.

Yes, I believe you have the gist of it.

With 99% iso, I have never had to deal with water issues, there was so little it would evaporate. I usually make my oil during the colder months so the extra water with the QWET could be based upon the air humidity.

Ok, made my first batch of QWET yesterday! Here's a recap.

I followed your instructions the best I could. I did two washes and then a third and fourth that we're kept separate.

I allowed each batch to settle and poured off the good stuff leaving as much sediment behind as I could. I combined the sediments and put that in a dish to evaporate. More on this in a bit.

I put the high and lower quality extracts in separate baking dishes, covered loosely with cheese clothe to keep out debris, bugs, etc. and directed a fan across the dishes.

This morning, the sediment bowl was completely evaporated and what was left was very similar to the "putty" that I mentioned before doing a QWET using just Keif. This product looked like a high quality, sandy colored, dry hash. Just enough moisture to press into cake.

The high quality extract still had liquid floating on top, but the sides of the dish were coated with a thick gooey, almost like taffy substance that I could not scrape off and had to use some ET to dissolve it. (Pic attached)

The low quality, had a milky substance on the surface that I poured off. I tasted the liquid and it seemed to be mostly water. There was no liquid that I could discern on the surface of the high quality extract, though it smells heavily of alcohol.

Both had sediment which I tried to separate and which I've put in a separate evap dish. I thought about filtering through a paper coffee filter, but wanted your advice first.

I'm confused because there doesn't seem to be much if any "oil". It's just very liquid and as it drys, (I'm assuming its resin that's drying to the surface of the dish). Having said this, the pic of the darker extract looks pretty oily, but up close not so much.

Gg, having trouble posting the pic. It's in my medmanmike album if you know how to get to it. I'll keep trying.

Keeping in mind QWET extractions during the summer months is new to me. Maybe I should be paper filtering in the beginning stages? Not sure yet.

My results were similar to yours. What I did from the point you are at (I took extra steps because it was new to me and was not satisfied with the appearance of the product). here is what I did. What ever puttied up, I would assume there is some THC in there (it is probably like good hash). Anyway, I diluted it with alcohol, it took some time to get the putty to dissolve, it took a lot of stirring. When I do this, I try to get any oil that hardened up in the bowl or purge pan to also dissolve with the alcohol. Then run it through a paper filter. I just used one coffee filter and it made an incredible difference. I have never seen paper filtering make a difference like this. Must have something to do with the gran alcohol. Even winterizing has never cleaned up my oil this much. Mine went from a brown putty to a nice yellow in the syringe with a light behind it. Just by simply diluting it and running it through one paper coffee filter. 

Same goes for the cleaner oil. I had the same results with my cleaner batch. My last one was three quick rinses. It was a brown oily liquid. I diluted it with alcohol to where it became watery and ran it through a paper filter and got premium results going by the looks. As soon as I crack open a vial of it, I will dip a toothpick in there and take a picture. I will probably wait the full 90 days before doing so.

For the strawberry cough that I used most recently, it normally produces my darkest oil. It is among the cleanest doing what we just discussed. It looked different to me, almost like those CO2 extractions or premium winterized BHO or winterized premium RSO. Just different though.

Maybe take a small piece of the putty and put it in a pipe, see what it does.

I did see your picture, it looked dark just like mine until I diluted it and ran it through a paper filter. This was by using 192 proof polish vodka.

I am not sure what is better, two quick rinses or three. I will have to do it a couple more times to have a more valuable opinion.

I"ll check the new putty out and let you know.

Questions/comments:  

1.  When making RSO, it's easy to see the bubbling off of alchohol and h20. Obviously, we don't have that clue with QWET.  Any suggestions for knowing when the alcohol/water (or at least most of it) is gone?

2. I found a recipe today at Cannapharms that is very similar to your QWET method, but they don't worry about a little alcohol remaining IF one intends to put it in caps, or ingest it directly as you do. I know you've said that the alcohol helps "melt" the oil on your tongue (did I remember that correctly?).  Any additional thoughts on this?  

3.  I'm definitely going to dilute both batches slightly and filter as you've suggested.  Lots of sap building up on the sides of the dish as it evaporates. Need to reconstitute that.

4.  You seem to have settled on SC and your 4-G for your strains?  Are they both Indicas?  Do you have experience making oil with Sativas as well as Indicas?  Would a Sativa based oil keep one "up", i.e. awake?  

As always, thanks!

1. With no heat using grain alcohol (190 proof or higher), in this humid weather, all the alcohol will evaporate before the water. you can either allow the water to evaporate off or pour the water off and let that finish evaporating/drying. If I pour off the water, I will let it air dry until it no longer has the wet/runny to it. So far the three strains I have worked with using the QWET method have been coming out a thick sap. Because there is so much water, the potential for mold does concern me. After I fill up a vial I will add a couple of drops of the grain alcohol to eliminate the possibility of mold.

2. I recommend with QWET to leave a touch of alcohol. Unless you plan on smoking it. With vaping I don't see a small amount of alcohol being a problem. I judge it by many factors, thickness, smell, and taste. ISO is easier because you can smell and taste the alcohol. The smell of cannabis can interfere with the smell and taste of the grain alcohol.

3. Yes. Stirring around with a small spatula, it will dissolve.

4. Yes and no, they are both hybrids, indica dominant. No experience with sativa. Well, not sure about sativa oil keeping one awake, but sometimes with my indica oils, it does. Not really the right person to ask. My guess would be, it depends on the person and how potent the oil is. Ingesting a more potent oil I believe will help anyone keep awake because of how stoned they may get. It is different than smoking, but similar.

For some reason with RSO, with many people, it does not make them tired, but does help with sleep.

Let me know how it comes out!

gg, I filtered as you suggested (pic included).  Both are cleaner, though the volume is quite reduced.  

The high quality (HQ) (picture on the right) had a small amount of water that I poured off. What remains was definitely sap!  I bottled the HQ and have approx 1 dram. (it's about ¼ of a 4 dram bottle - the ones you recommended). So that's about 3.5 ml of sap from one oz of bud.   Does this sound right?

The LQ seemed to be all water - there was no sediment, no residue sticking to the sides of the dish, etc. A milky, slightly green liquid with virtually no taste.   I decided not to save this (as sap) and discarded it into my alcohol wash jar.

Wasn't easy getting the sap into the vial!  I poured and scraped what I could and then used a little ET to dilute what I couldn't scrape and poured that in the vial.  Question:  Can I leave it, or should I pour off any alcohol that remains on top after its settled a bit? Any tips for moving the zap to the bottles?

So, now I wait.  I did lick my fingers, etc. so we'll see what happens re current potency. :-)

Another, somewhat related question.  I decided to try to decarb some bud and gel cap it.  I did so at 210º F for 20 min.  Stuffing a 00 cap with the bud didn't do much.  I used Cannatonic, (phenotype unknown) which could be low in THC.  Even with the cap stuffed, I can't say that there was any "high" effects.  It might have slowed me down a bit, but no real buzz.  I don't believe you have any experience doing this, but do you have an opinion regarding the decarb time and temp?  I've read a lot (including one of the most recent Decarb postings where you took a fair share (unfair?) of abuse) and there's a lot of opinions as to what time and temp to use.  I know there's someone on this site who does this regularly. I'll have to track that person down and it sounded like it worked well for them (ingesting decarbed bud).

I'm please that the process worked and I did get some sap!  Thanks for you continued support.

yes, it is about 3.75 ml (gram). Usually I can fit 4 ml (grams) into a 1 dram vial, but that is filled to the rim.

My low quality looked milky too. I decided to let it evaporate and it actually came out to where there was still oil in it. I was surprised. Not much though. I did do 3 rinses on my last batch though.

Well, if you were able to pour anything off, it would probably be water. If you don't want any alcohol in it, leave the lid off the vial and let it air out. It could take days, weeks is okay too. I have done that for over a week a few times. Getting the sap into the vials, use the same method. You may need to add a bit of ET. I have gotten pretty good a working my mini spatula LOL!

I only recommend 2 decarbing methods. One is making RSO in the rice cooker. The other method is the no heat decarb. Any other method I see as destroying the product. This is just my opinion, I could be wrong.

If I were to try to decarb bud, I would probably get it more dry than I prefer to smoke. Jar it up and seal it for 3 or 4 months. I don't recommend oven heating. I just don't feel it is properly decarbed in the oven. I have never had much luck at it anyway. Everybody is different though.

Decarbing bud by jarring up for 3 to 4 months could be the best way to go medicinally, but I can't help but to believe that the CBDs and other medicinal properties are degrading more quickly in plant form than in oil form.

Yes, I take my share of hits, but I keep getting back up.   I don't post on forums much anymore. Getting tired of the bickering over nothing. I will stick to my blogs for the most part.

I had my bad experience for the day with my SAP experiment. My really good Strawberry Cough oil in the dram vial that was full to the rim is only 3/4 full now. I pulled it out and opened it and it reacted like a shaken can of soda! I added a couple of drops of alcohol like you mentioned. I was concerned about mold, there is no need to be concerned, I was wrong. I had the wood stove going in the room where the oil is locked up since it has been cool and damp. Seems that the temperature swing caused it to pressurize. I threw it in the refrigerator for a few minutes and when I opened it, it reacted like a vacuum! From now on, if I leave any alcohol in the oil, I am not filling the vial more than half way due to the potential pressurizing issues. Since it leaked, I tasted it, not decarbed yet, been almost a month since it was made.

I wouldn't take all of these losses unless I thought it was worth it. I had an incident in the past with some QWISO, the SAP that naturally decarbed, before it was decarbed. I intentionally left some alcohol behind and the temperature swings in the house caused the syringe to blow out! There went a good 10 grams!!! OUCH! I must say, I have compared back and forth for a few months and the naturally decarbed QWISO, I have not had anything that compared to it in potency. It seems to stay in my system for days after I stop taking it. The same amount of RSO would only stay in my system for a day to a day and a half. Leaving a touch of alcohol caused the natural decarbing or time, which I believe it is time, I just have to get it mastered.

I have other vials that I am testing and will be ready around October. The best way to get the alcohol out of the vial is in a dry environment, maybe let a fan blow over the vial. I seems that with the pressurization it caused the alcohol bubble to the top.

Just a warning, don't fill them to the rim, even if you believe the alcohol is completely purged.

Back to RSO for a moment. Here is an easy way for patients to treat themselves with a small amount. The doctor in this video only uses one ounce and 190 proof grain alcohol. A good method in getting started treating yourself. If you plan to use 99% iso you want good ventilation. The fumes from isopropyl alcohol are far more dangerous than grain alcohol. Also, it still may require 2 to 6 weeks to finish naturally decarbing if you want the most out of your oil.

After opening the 2 dram vial of 4-G QWET oil and the 1 dram vial of SC QWET oil, they fizzed over from the pressure build up, lesson learned, I wiped up what I could onto a couple of rolling papers and rolled up a couple of hooters.

Here is a close up of the one dram vial with the strawberry cough oil. You can see on the rim how nice and clear the oil is. Keeping in mind it is in a green vial. This is the most clean I have seen SC oil come out. On the other hand, with the 4-G oil, it is the most dirty I have seen it come out. Must have something to do with using grain alcohol vs. 99% iso.

The Grow Goddess has Oil Eyes! I will not stop until I can replicate that ND Sap I made and have it mastered.

Cartoon mug shot with real "Oil Eyes"  LOL

The "Oil Eyes" is reclaim that I cleaned up and took pictures of in my purge pan.

Two more months to go and hopefully some of the oil is naturally decarbed. I will check again in 30 days.

QWET/No Heat update.  Did another batch with (⅛ GSC, ⅛ Jilly Bean) and ET.  I followed your method as best I could, but am disappointed in the results.  Pics attached show HQ on the left - milky/watery; LQ on the right - oily, but with a bit of sentiment (even though I wire meshed and coffee paper filtered both before purging.  The HS is about 2 Tbsp, (note the second pic showing very little oil/extract.)  LQ is about 1 Tbsp.

The only thing I can think that I might have done differently was not getting the bud dry enough.  It was jarred with a Boveda 62% RH oak.  In preparation, I ground up the bud (using a twist hand grinder) and let it air dry for a while.  Humidity in the house is about 50%, so I"m thinking that's probably where the bud was.

QUESTON: What do you use to grind your bud?  I've used a coffee grinder (too much resin left on the bowl) and a high quality hand grinder (leaves the bud really fluffy, but not finely ground like in the coffee grinder).

I'm thinking that maybe I don't have enough surface area with the latter grind, or the moisture content is to high. Your thoughts?

I've made RSO twice and it worked (got oil anyway, not sure of the potency yet.) and hope that the QWET method would be easier, not to mention less dangerous, but so far (2 attempts) I'm a little disappointed.

Any thoughts or suggestions you would have will be appreciated!

I am curious what your disappointment is. Is it the quantity or the color?

I do not grind my bud before doing an extraction. I use nice manicured top buds. I have to fire up my wood burner to get them crispy. Just the dry air from the wood burners sucks the moisture right out. I put the whole buds in a canning jar. After I put the freezer cold alcohol into the jar of the frozen buds I just shake the jar and they fall apart.

I am not sure if I am satisfied with using the QWET or not. Keep in mind my first batch of ND Sap was QWISO (99% iso extraction) that was winterized with 192 proof grain alcohol.

Using only grain alcohol has proven to be more difficult. It has also proven more difficult to get the oil to come out more clean looking.

My second batch of the QWET ND Sap, which is not ready yet was really beautiful oil. After it has been sitting a month now it has a greenish tint to it which I am not really happy about.

My first batch, which is about 45 days old, was a browish color and that was done with a strain that typically gives me the most clean looking oil. Now it has changed from brown to greenish like in your picture.

In the past when I made QWET I may have used a coffee mug warmer, it was in the winter, but it seemed like it went a lot smoother, more normal results. I no longer posses the strain I made it with though.

I am not making the ND Sap for looks or taste. My only focus is all of the medicinal values I can recover without being lost with heat and evaporation.

I can't fairly judge the QWET method until it has been a good 90 days. Then I can properly cast judgement.

The original ND Sap picture, (winterized QWISO), I am sure some of the medicinal values are being lost during the winterization process, but, it is by far the best oil I have ever had.

I am pretty much going to compare the QWET sap to the winterized QWISO sap. Whichever one I like better is the method I will stick with.

If you do another run, try the QWISO (99% iso) and winterize with 190 proof or higher grain alcohol. That will give you some nice looking oil.

Also, I did sample my first QWET batch (45 days), it does seem to be partially decarbed. I am thinking another 45 days and it will be done and just as good as my first discovery batch.

The reason I am trying to switch to grain alcohol is when I did a flame test with the 99% iso, it burned dirty and left residue. Long term use of an iso oil is starting to concern me.

I would not judge the oil until it has naturally decarbed. I am guessing 90 to 120 days.

Three tablespoons of oil to me is 3 ounces of premium bud.

Hi GG,  sorry for not getting back sooner....    

I guess my disappointment is in the quantity of oil produced.  This last batch I ended up with about 1 dram of high quality and only a dried coating of the low quality.  Meaning, once the alcohol evaporated, there was only a dried coating on the bottom of the bottle.

Your last sentence is telling:  3 tbsp = 3 oz of bud.  I used ¼ oz and ended up with about 1 tsp. So, following that logic, ¼ oz times 12 = 3 oz of bud; 1 tsp times 12 = 12 tsps/3 (# of tsp in 1 tbsp) = 4 tbsp.  So, our numbers are similar.

As I mentioned before, I processed smaller quantities because I didn't want to waste the bud and the associated cost of it.  I just harvested yesterday (see below) and am thinking I will try one more "test" of QWET (cold). That will give me three batches:  1) trim and misc (QWISO), 2) bud (first grow, not the best quality-QWET cold) and 3) premium bud (second grow/higher quality bud - QWET cold). 

Part of my angst is having enough bud for vaping while experimenting make extractions. Don't want to short myself!

Ok, the good news!  Harvested 7 plants yesterday - Cattatonic, Jilly Bean and 1 Girl Scout Cookie.  Much better harvest the second time.  Bigger colas, tighter buds, better color, etc.  Here are some pics.  First two are Cattatonic, second two Jill Bean one one overall shot.

I wouldn't be so concerned with the quantity, I would be more concerned with the quality.

It has been just over 2 months. I sampled one of my QWET oils. It is still just a little bit decarbed, not fully yet. It just may take the full 120 days.

As long as it comes out like my last batch to where I can't even handle one droplet, well, that is what I am looking for.

Using nice looking bud like in your pictures, produces quality oil.

I am pretty much doing the same as you. Comparing QWISO vs. QWISO naturally decarbed. Eating the oil is by far the most efficient way to stay medicated. My very best oil, the ND Sap, one drop per day was a bit more than I can handle and it keeps me buzzed 24/7. On the weekends when I am not working, I can handle that one drop no problem. At work though, that is a problem.

I am excited to see each of our results. Just be prepared for it to take 120 days for it to naturally decarb.

Sorry it took me a while to reply. I have been pretty busy too.

How does RSO compare to the Cannabis paste?  My wife has horrible migraines / occipital neuralgia and I don't have the equipment or space to make the oil.  The paste would be much more do-able for me.  I'm just not sure about the effectiveness of it.

Thanks!

I am not familiar with cannabis paste so I really cannot comment on a comparison.

I do know that RSO works well.

Little update with the ND Sap made with 190 proof grain alcohol, no heat.

Working with the grain alcohol has been a pain compared to 99% iso. I have not worked with the grain alcohol in the cold months yet, it may be a whole different game because of how dry my house is.

Grain alcohol and natural decarbing will not offer the good looks. It darkens as it ages or decarbs. It seems as if when it decarbs it releases CO2. My guess is that is what the bubbling is when I open the lid and it foams over. Some chemical reaction or whatever. It also can take place when shaking the vial without opening it. It builds up some serious pressure. I am no scientist so I don't know exactly what is going on. I can tell you what the scientist does not know. I have been taking a dose of this every day. I can tell you the changes it has made. It has been a weird experience to me. Different than my QWISO decarbing after winterizing and different than fresh RSO, still warm, that has not fully decarbed. Very noticeable differences between the three.

I started off taking my first oil every day after about 60 days. I also pre sampled it. It started off plain, no taste. Maybe a little grain alcohol I could taste (intentional to keep liquid and all medicinal properties). Then I started to get the cannabis taste. Over time it tasted more like cannabis. Something was going on there. Then it started to taste like alcohol and cannabis and I got a buzz. A buzz like I have never had. Mind you, this is a strain I have grown for over a decade (4-G) I know it very well. It has been about 90 days since I made the oil. However, the bud being a month old and the oil being 3 months old, it may require the 120 days if the bud were used immediately. Anyway, 90 days, BINGO! It went from some funny buzz, visual, body, but no head buzz. It almost made me feel depressed. That is what I never felt before. It felt as if the CBDs were overpowering the THC. The reason why I say that is the next day, I would wake up, still feel the buzz, but felt normal, like just THC effects. It is as if the CBDs wore off within 12 hours and the THC lasted longer. Just my opinion and first impression. After BINGO, around 90 days, the THC just doubled. It has only been 48 hours since it doubled at this point. It may double again by tomorrow. With the RSO, then continuing the natural decarb, it would all be done within 72 hours after BINGO. It would gain a good 40% if the original oil was treated very gentle during the process. When you reach full potency without damaging the oil or THC, the stuff can be as potent as LSD so to speak. Just different.

One thing I notice off this new oil is right around its decarbing I put a drop on my toothache and instant pain relief. It seemed to long term take away the pain, it has been bothering me for a while now. After treating it for 5 days with the new oil, and i have not had to put any more on it. The RSO did not help it. The ND Sap contains other medicinal properties besides THC and just some basic CBDs. I am convinced that the ND Sap is far more medicinal for almost any illness.

Again, working with grain alcohol is a pain, I don't like it except that it is safer.

I will report back on how it goes during the winter months. It may a whole different experience. If that is the case, I will happily make my annual amount of oil during the winter, no biggie.

ND Sap has proven to be different to me. More efficient, more medicinal, more effective, less wasteful, and potentially much safer for the average person to make since there is no heat involved. If you make it with grain alcohol, it is more difficult (for premium quality). It is as safe as it gets. Grain alcohol does not release much fume. The fume it does release is reasonably safe. There is no need to use the grain alcohol in any dangerous manner. You can make small quantities. The only pain is you will have to prepare 3 to 4 months in advance for every batch. Preferably 4 to 6 months in advance if not more when capable, especially if you have cancer. Maintenance doses are really convenient especially when you have high quality oil.

I will report back on how the other oil comes out. I haven't cracked it open yet. Don't think it has been 90 days yet, maybe I will wait 100 to 120.

I can't say that the new oil I made with grain alcohol is any stronger than the RSO I have made. The winterized QWISO is by far the most potent I have tried yet, naturally decarbed or not.

Little update with the ND Sap made with 190 proof grain alcohol, no heat.

 

Working with the grain alcohol has been a pain compared to 99% iso. I have not worked with the grain alcohol in the cold months yet, it may be a whole different game because of how dry my house is.

 

Grain alcohol and natural decarbing will not offer the good looks. It darkens as it ages or decarbs. It seems as if when it decarbs it releases CO2. My guess is that is what the bubbling is when I open the lid and it foams over. Some chemical reaction or whatever. It also can take place when shaking the vial without opening it. It builds up some serious pressure. I am no scientist so I don't know exactly what is going on. I can tell you what the scientist does not know. I have been taking a dose of this every day. I can tell you the changes it has made. It has been a weird experience to me. Different than my QWISO decarbing after winterizing and different than fresh RSO, still warm, that has not fully decarbed. Very noticeable differences between the three.

 

I started off taking my first oil every day after about 60 days. I also pre sampled it. It started off plain, no taste. Maybe a little grain alcohol I could taste (intentional to keep liquid and all medicinal properties). Then I started to get the cannabis taste. Over time it tasted more like cannabis. Something was going on there. Then it started to taste like alcohol and cannabis and I got a buzz. A buzz like I have never had. Mind you, this is a strain I have grown for over a decade (4-G) I know it very well. It has been about 90 days since I made the oil. However, the bud being a month old and the oil being 3 months old, it may require the 120 days if the bud were used immediately. Anyway, 90 days, BINGO! It went from some funny buzz, visual, body, but no head buzz. It almost made me feel depressed. That is what I never felt before. It felt as if the CBDs were overpowering the THC. The reason why I say that is the next day, I would wake up, still feel the buzz, but felt normal, like just THC effects. It is as if the CBDs wore off within 12 hours and the THC lasted longer. Just my opinion and first impression. After BINGO, around 90 days, the THC just doubled. It has only been 48 hours since it doubled at this point. It may double again by tomorrow. With the RSO, then continuing the natural decarb, it would all be done within 72 hours after BINGO. It would gain a good 40% if the original oil was treated very gentle during the process. When you reach full potency without damaging the oil or THC, the stuff can be as potent as LSD so to speak. Just different.

 

One thing I notice off this new oil is right around its decarbing I put a drop on my toothache and instant pain relief. It seemed to long term take away the pain, it has been bothering me for a while now. After treating it for 5 days with the new oil, and i have not had to put any more on it. The RSO did not help it. The ND Sap contains other medicinal properties besides THC and just some basic CBDs. I am convinced that the ND Sap is far more medicinal for almost any illness.

 

Again, working with grain alcohol is a pain, I don't like it except that it is safer.

 

I will report back on how it goes during the winter months. It may a whole different experience. If that is the case, I will happily make my annual amount of oil during the winter, no biggie.

 

ND Sap has proven to be different to me. More efficient, more medicinal, more effective, less wasteful, and potentially much safer for the average person to make since there is no heat involved. If you make it with grain alcohol, it is more difficult (for premium quality). It is as safe as it gets. Grain alcohol does not release much fume. The fume it does release is reasonably safe. There is no need to use the grain alcohol in any dangerous manner. You can make small quantities. The only pain is you will have to prepare 3 to 4 months in advance for every batch. Preferably 4 to 6 months in advance if not more when capable, especially if you have cancer. Maintenance doses are really convenient especially when you have high quality oil.

 

I will report back on how the other oil comes out. I haven't cracked it open yet. Don't think it has been 90 days yet, maybe I will wait 100 to 120.

 

I can't say that the new oil I made with grain alcohol is any stronger than the RSO I have made. The winterized QWISO is by far the most potent I have tried yet, naturally decarbed or not.

Hi gg,

Wow, a lot of interesting observations in your post!  Can't wait for the follow-up.  A couple of questions though:

1. it sounds like you are moving away from using EA for your cold extractions.  Yes?  Does that mean you're using ISO for the extraction? 

2. wondering if you would consider making a spreadsheet (I'll help if needed) comparing your experiences with RSO, QWISO and ND Sap?  This would be a way for you (and admittedly, me :-)  and probably others) to have a comprehensive "view" of your experiences, both from a creation and use perspectives.

IMHO, your "research" is invaluable to the community.  Keep it up!

Now, a personal update:

1.  Harvested my second grow a few weeks ago.  7 plants, 5-gal pots in a SCROG.  Trimmed, dried and cured came in at just under 7.5oz. A little over 1 oz/plant.  Not great, but it beat my first harvest which averaged ¾ oz/plant.  The 2nd grow did have a fairly bad Scale infestation, so they were under a lot of stress, which probably impacted the harvest.

2.  My first attempt at making RSO, using trim, leaves, and stems and following your heat method turned 90 days yesterday.  Guess what I did??  Took two drops around 5p last night. Not very noticeable.  Some minor sensations of well being, things were brighter and a general calmness. Also, some pain relief. By 9 it was over but pain was still reduced.

Today, I took 4-5 drops (not sure because by the 3rd drop my tongue was numb) around 9:30 this morning.  Whoa, what a mistake.  It's now nearly 11 and I'm sitting here buzzed to the nth degree stumbling my way through this reply (making good use of the delete key...)  At the moment, it's a totally head high, my face is numb and my arms and hands are getting very weak as I type this. There's a slight sense of panic - a little anxiety I suppose, and I feel like I don't dare get-into-the-feeling or I'll succumb to it.  Good thing I"m sitting down. 

Wondering now if maybe I did more than 4-5 drops?  Have to get a mirror to see what I'm doing next time!  This is one of those no talking on the phone and not going to answer the door types of highs. Too much!

I find it interesting that there is such a fine line between a mild high (2 drops) and an over-the-top high (4-5 drops).  I'm definitely going to experiment more with this and titrate more accurately to find that sweet spot.

[grins]

I am going to give it a shot with the 190 proof grain alcohol this winter. Remember, I burn wood for heat so the air is very dry, which does help with the evaporation of the water. That is what I am used to anyway. It is not really fair to compare my results from this summer with the humidity. I usually do my oil making in the winter anyway.

Hmmm, a chart or graph. Nice idea. Not quite done comparing yet.

The QWET ND Sap just hit another threshold. One of my patients came by today and ironically, they were complaining about a toothache. They said they tried everything . Pain pills, numbs stuff, ambesol, and other stuff. Nothing helped. I said, give this a shot, the ND Sap, it worked for me, almost instantly, let's see if it works for you. They looked in disbelief but were more than happy to try. One drop, I could see in their face that it took the pain away almost instantly. They still had a disbelief look, but I could tell. Within 5 minutes of talking, they finally admitted that the pain was gone, but still couldn't believe it. They described it the same as I did. It took away the pain, and numbed it, but not a tingly numb. Like it was coated, protected. They hung around for a few hours and when they left, the pain was still gone. They left with a smile. I know RSO couldn't do that. I am not sure about QWISO winterized though when it comes to a toothache. If I see another patient with a toothache, I will have them try my winterized QWISO that has been naturally decarbed into ND Sap. The patient did comment that they loved the taste too.

That decarbing happens like almost overnight. once it starts, within 72 hours it increases drastically. That is what I have noticed anyway. It is more medicinal for sure. I do like working with the 99% iso a bit better, but I am not done comparing. Just because I like working with ISO better does not at all mean it is a better product. It looks better, but still, it does not mean it is better medicinally.

The QWET extraction I am speaking of was made with my 4-G strain. Stored for 90 days. Right around 90 days it did decarb. It may even get stronger yet. It is about as potent as my average RSO. It should be super clear, but over time during the decarbing it has developed a brownish greenish tint. I think it has more medicinal value, but more difficult to make. Not as high in THC compared to the winterized QWISO. I wish I knew more. That is what I am doing though, learning and sharing.

Maybe do just 3 drops next time LOL. Also, I recommend using the best buds to make the oil. It will probably offer a more clean better medicated feeling and longer lasting too. In my opinion anyway. Honestly, I have never used anything but my best buds and maybe a little sugar leaf, but not much. So, I can't rightfully compare or comment on using material other than buds.

I am happy to hear that you are having success!! Please, any feedback, I am all ears!

First, would you prefer to carry on future conversations via PM, or are you ok doing so publicly?

Using the ND Sap on the toothache is very interesting.  Certainly powerful stuff.

Quick update re my "OD" from yesterday. LOL!  I was still (minimally) feeling the effects at 8:00pm!  Even though the "anxious" feeling was not that pleasant, I found I could function - walk, talk, eat, etc. without any problems.  I don't even think my wife could tell.  About 8:30 I took three drops - this time I put them in a spoon so I could see the amount I was ingesting. The effects were milder but I slept quite well.  Will continue to experiment with the dosage.  

I understand the "why" of using good quality bud:  Again, the material was from my first grow and not wanting to ruin good bud, I chose to use the trim for practice.  Still pretty powerful, but I wonder if using fan leaves, trim and stalks had any impact on causing some of the anxiousness that I felt?

I received an order of Everclear (3L) yesterday and am getting ready to start new batches of RSO and/or QWET/ND Sap following your "cold" method. I'm beginning to think that my stomach isn't handling the chlorophyl very well, so I may skip making RSO.

Have you made any recent changes to your cold QWET/ND Sap instructions?  Any advice on eliminating or reducing the "gassing" that you've experienced once you've bottled the Sap using Everclear?

I'm still not sure I fully understand "winterizing".  It is primarily used just to clean up the oil?  Can you direct me to a good source for understanding winterizing?  

Earlier, I contacted you about using decarbed bud in caps for easy dosing.  I did this with bud and put .25 gr in 00 caps.  never felt anything with one cap.  Two, however, does the trick - almost too much.  And, as I've played with this over time, it seams to be getting more potent which one might expect as the natural decarbing continues.  Any experience or thoughts on this?

I have two full qt jars of sugar trim that I think I'm going to try making an alcohol (EC) tincture.  Any experience with this? Can tincture be winterized and/or is there a method for removing the chlorophyl that you're aware of?

Enough for now.  As always, thanks. :-)