Decarboxylization

[Restorium2]

Some folks like to brag that they only use 'the very best buds' for their oil and they are somehow above us that try to use all of the medical cannabis a plant can give us. Their oil is top notch and ours is trash. When the reality is that we can make our base oil into anything they produce. This has been a major point of contention here with posts about oil.  

[trichcycler]

oh, I see. I'm not interested in comparing with anyone, so I'm out of that loop.

It I true though, I incidentally do only use the buds for oil I make. If I have a

failed plant, or one I wouldn't smoke, I don't use it for anything but worm/rabbit food.

doesn't happen often, but it has. I don't try to recoup moneys with the scraps. My issue

would lean towards more of an overage , and just have no need to fuss with ends.

I have no issue smoking or extracting from any bud big or small. but I don't use trim

or leaves/sticks. kind of a pot snob I guess.

[Restorium2]

'Monies' isn't the issue. Waste is. Fussy snobs have no place in the world of what works for patients. People that are ignorant telling us that you need to use only the very best buds for 'The Cure' are just full of themselves and their self-proclaimed superior product. Rick Simpson, of all people, went there and had his arse handed to him. He has his followers here yet. Just read some posts.

[trichcycler]

yeah, I seen 'em.

[GrowGoddess]

you mean to say that even without heating and further decarboxylation, your fresh oil is awesomely active in the body and brain when ingested ?    mine too, with 100% of the terpene profile in tact, and every possible flavor available to the palate.  If we used leaves and other scraps, the results would be different, because of the lower "quality" or lack of active ingredients in those plant parts.   

 

No but Yes. I am referring to my RSO. As soon as the RSO finishes purging (coffee cup warmer stage) I can eat a lot of it. It gives a completely different buzz. When I say a lot, I am referring to an amount equal to the size of a pea or maybe two. A day or two later, it is a different buzz and it is more potent. It stays that way until it does a final decarbing. For me it has been anywhere from 2 to 6 weeks later. Then it seems to become twice as potent. Almost to where I am a little afraid of it. I am not able to take more than two uncooked rice grain size dose per day and be able to function and get my responsibilities done. Like work full time and manage a grow.

[GrowGoddess]

Well, I only use my best buds to make oil. I don't have time to use trim and shake. I don't have the extra time to waste to salvage the low grade materials. I know it is all useable, I just do not have the extra time to waste on it.

 

Yes indeed. I AM AND OIL SNOB.

 

Is there a problem with one who chooses to use the best buds to make a quality oil? I guess I cannot see why someone would be so against it. I don't smoke anymore. What am I supposed to do eat the buds? As for vaporizing bud, well, I am not a fan. It tastes gross to me. Others like it and that is great.

 

Not everybody has the extra time to make best use of the lower grade, useful parts of the plant.

 

I cannot just quit my job like many have suggested I do. That would be silly in my opinion.

 

I have heard far more success stories of using premium bud oil vs oil made with sugar leaves and popcorn bud.

 

If someones oil keeps coming out black and tarry, please don't be angry with me because mine dose not.

 

Can someone tell me what should be left behind? This is unfiltered and not winterized. Why is this unacceptable that I use premium buds and my oil comes out like this? Is there a problem that I am not seeing?

 

Edit: Also, my harvest, crops, growroom is not capable of supplying me with oil if I only use sugar shake and popcorn buds. That will not even supply my vaporizing use. How is it all these people are making mass quantities of oil with their shake and popcorn buds? Where is it all coming from? I believe in many cases it is a bunch of people donating to make a "soup" of oil from multiple caregivers. This is something I just cannot agree with. All it would take is one dirty donation (chemicals, pesticides, etc) to contaminate the entire batch of oil. The reason why I don't get that much in popcorn buds and all is because I have become more skilled in my garden. I have learned to trim my plants to where I mostly get large buds. Yes, I take a loss in yield, but I get what I need the most, which is time. It gives me the extra time I need to take care of my responsibilities.

 

Everybody's situation is different. I am NOT putting down anyone's oil. I try to stay focused on my oil. When it comes to vaporizing the oil, that is where I prefer it to be as clean as possible. As for e-cannabis, it is pretty much mandatory. The chlorophyll sticks to the wick system in the e-ciggs and does not taste good.

 

 

Just take a look at my blog here on vaporizing oil. There is no way I grow enough to supply this without using all my buds. Combustion is a thing of the past for me. I am not arguing anymore about RSO and the BS that goes along with it. I am in to vaporizing oils now. http://michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/blog/532/entry-1026-my-experience-with-portable-vaporizers-pen-vaporizers-for-concentrated-cannabis-oil-and-e-cigarette-oil/#commentsStart

Edited December 9, 2013 by GrowGoddess

[trichcycler]

I think you're doing it right ! winterizing isn't necessary at all, only one step closer to purifying/isolating some compounds. a little salt, sulphuric acid, and I hear it gets even more concentrated, but I dunno about erowid.  I like my full melt from a dry sift also, and that contains all of the waxy trichome heads, with their essential oils inside. I love the flavor.  

[trichcycler]

 Fussy snobs have no place in the world of what works for patients.

The minute my patients tell me to use trimmings in their meds instead of buds, I will comply. I've got nothing against the practice, or those who use it.

 

From what I read here I think most  patients would appreciate more caregiver fuss while growing, drying, and preparing their herbal remedies.

 

admitted fussy medical growing snob

[GrowGoddess]

Oils and vaporizing is the future. I was told not too long ago that was not so. Well, it appears that it is so. At least High Times agrees with me. The January 2014 issue states that the most viewed subject on their website is portable vaporizers for oils. As for what High Times recommends I do not agree with nor do I agree with their opinions.

 

If you ask me and it is all made correctly, and the vaporizer is used correctly, it probably does provide medicinal qualities. I would say it is better than combustion.

 

Just my opinion. I know many that will never give up smoking a nice fatty. That is cool, and I understand.

 

So the clean oil thing is no longer about RSO. It is also about vaporizing now.

 

Here is my method. No need for decarbed oils. It works both ways. Mostly a personal preference. Not even sure what I like better yet, RSO or QWISO.

http://michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/blog/532/entry-1026-my-experience-with-portable-vaporizers-pen-vaporizers-for-concentrated-cannabis-oil-and-e-cigarette-oil/#commentsStart

 

Just looking to help people see that there are many options to using cannabis. I am not saying at all that my ways are the right ways or only ways it should be done. Just saying what works for me and what I prefer. Most of my patients agree.

Edited December 9, 2013 by GrowGoddess

[trichcycler]

I believe you are correct growgoddess. I know that NO physician, pharmacist, or big pharma will ever condone the combustion and inhalation of dried flowers as a release mechanism of the active ingredients of cannabis. Each constituent will need  to be isolated, purified, and maybe synthesized (for patentability) Active components will then need lab testing to check for contraindications with other medications, long term effects, and dose trials for all ages, before they call it "medicine" for the masses.

 

that leads me to believe that an extraction even in crude from like we do it, will be the first step to discovering the protocols necessary for a prescription medicine.

Now that the courts were forced to identify extractions as "not covered by out Act", these medicinal trials are stalled. A lab cannot even be in possession of extracts of cannabis, without dea approvals now in our state. All it took a few months ago was one person in the lab with a card. The anti mj community is most likely agreeable with this decision, as it directly affects the non release of this "new" medicinal, with full acceptance by the medical community.

 

I am content to vaporize or ingest my mj I guess, but strive to educate myself in all aspects of marijuana relief, focusing on the safest mode of medicating with our herbal supplement, which is best accomplished using cannabis extractions, imo

 

 

keep up the good work , they'll thank you later !

Oils and vaporizing is the future. I was told not too long ago that was not so. Well, it appears that it is so. At least High Times agrees with me. The January 2014 issue states that the most viewed subject on their website is portable vaporizers for oils. As for what High Times recommends I do not agree with nor do I agree with their opinions.

sharedmedia=gallery:images:16747]

 

f you ask me and it is all made correctly, and the vaporizer is used correctly, it probably does provide medicinal qualities. I would say it is better than combustion.

 

Just my opinion. I know many that will never give up smoking a nice fatty. That is cool, and I understand.

 

So the clean oil thing is no longer about RSO. It is also about vaporizing now.

 

Here is my method. No need for decarbed oils. It works both ways. Mostly a personal preference. Not even sure what I like better yet, RSO or QWISO.

http://michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/blog/532/entry-1026-my-experience-with-portable-vaporizers-pen-vaporizers-for-concentrated-cannabis-oil-and-e-cigarette-oil/#commentsStart

 

Just looking to help people see that there are many options to using cannabis. I am not saying at all that my ways are the right ways or only ways it should be done. Just saying what works for me and what I prefer. Most of my patients agree.

[t-pain]

I know that NO physician, pharmacist, or big pharma will ever condone the combustion and inhalation of dried flowers as a release mechanism of the active ingredients of cannabis.

 

dr phil leveque condones and encourages medical marijuana, including smoking.

 

http://www.salem-news.com/by_author.php?reporter=Dr.%20Phil%20Leveque

 

hes a ww2 vet. (oops, medical board revoked his license because he signed too many recs). give his articles a read.

Edited December 10, 2013 by t-pain

[trichcycler]

good articles, I like the old timers still fighting the good fight.  thanks for the link. 

Since the majority of the smoke from combustion contains much of the nasty gases and tars/ that cigarettes do, or even leaves when burning, and vaporizing at correct temps can provide a vapor over 85% active ingredients like thc, it seems a no brainer. I'm not demonizing smoking at all, but it has already been done in the industry. I didn't see the old doc there condoning smoking cannabis in his articles, only "marijuana therapy", "marijuana use", but I'm pretty sure if asked he would condone it now, for he has nothing to lose, anymore sadly.

[Highlander]

Even before the Carruthers decision, there was always the question of transfers....good that a guy in the lab has a card, but unless he is my patient, I can't/couldn't have transferred MJ oil to him.  I never understood how labs dealt with that issue.

 

A lab cannot even be in possession of extracts of cannabis, without dea approvals now in our state. All it took a few months ago was one person in the lab with a card.

[trichcycler]

good point!

[t-pain]

“My co-op hash oil had not been decarboxylated. THCA does not fit the CB-1 receptor that is required to send seramide to the work of apoptosis.” (This is why the cancer made a reappearance)

 

http://patients4medicalmarijuana.wordpress.com/2013/04/18/got-cancer-decarboxylate-your-cannabis/

 

It is possible to perform the decarboxylation either on the extract, or with the dry plant material. Either way will work.

 

Why decarboxylation? If we are fighting cancer, we need to optimize the potency of treatment. THC kills cancer by shredding the mitochondria to disrupt its energy metabolism, while leaving normal cells untouched. THCA will not have this effect.

 

~ Dennis Hill

 

you must heat your product prior to ingesting if you want better amounts of thc and not thca from your medicine.

 

i think we need to make sure more people know about this.

maybe thats why the balm i had didnt work that great?

Edited December 14, 2013 by t-pain

[trichcycler]

If THC effects is what a patient is after, decarboxylation is where its at. But if CBD's are the target, in raw form, marijuana leaves and buds are actually loaded with a non-psychoactive, antioxidant, anti-inflammatory, and anti-cancer nutrient compound known as cannabidiol (CBD). The effects will be much less the stone or high that some seek, and more of the relief sought by CBD seekers. Some strains have more thc available than others, before decarboxylation occurs, all will increase the thc with a gentle heat/evaporation.

 

Jesus decarboxylated the Holy Annointing Oil, according to the bible, in the manner of a perfume maker. He used olive oil and some essential oils, for topicals used throughout.

 

I have to wonder how one jumps from an ancient cannabis extraction using safe olive oil, to using naptha and rubbing alcohol to duplicate results? silly rabbits

[Restorium2]

No one uses naptha or 70% (rubbing) alcohol for cannabis extractions. 100% iso alcohol is safe to use.

Edited December 14, 2013 by Restorium2

[trichcycler]

what?

 

Have you seen  the hundreds of folks using both of these dangerous solvents to extract from cannabis all over the internet, youtube? did you see those facebook folks  yelling all about it for a decade now? Rick simpson himself suggests using Naptha, where have you been?

No solvent is safe to use without proper controls in place. Evaporating into the air is not a safe practice. Warming a solvent in a rice cooker is not a safe practice. Guessing at total solvent removal is not  safe practice.

 

No one uses naptha or 70% (rubbing) alcohol for cannabis extractions. 100% iso alcohol is safe to use.

[Restorium2]

You can find folks on youtube doing things stupidly, granted. Everything you can think of. I bet you can find one where someone pokes themselves in the eye with a fork.

 

On the other hand;

 

You can get a safe extractor that uses alcohol on eBay. You can even use it to purify your alcohol so you know it IS 100% alcohol before you use it. We all need to be safe. It's also important not to paint ourselves into a corner by using broad sweeping statements that would hurt a patients ability to do their own extraction at home. Alcohol is a 'safe use' extraction solvent if you do it correctly.

[trichcycler]

peanutbutter,  in this post you state you switched to naptha awhile ago. now you do not support the use of naptha?  can you tell us what you used before naptha, and now?

 

Member

• 
• Members
• 
• 8,093 posts

• LocationDexter

Posted 13 August 2012 - 08:40 PM

switched to naphtha a while ago.

No one uses naptha or 70% (rubbing) alcohol for cannabis extractions. 100% iso alcohol is safe to use.

[trichcycler]

right, but you said NOBODY is using naptha, and I disagree. The "branded" most popular buzz word is Rick Simpson, and taken today form his website is this ;

 

The process that I am about to describe involves washing the starting material twice with a good solvent such as pure naphtha, to remove the available resin from the plant material. Naphtha has proven to be a very good solvent to produce the oil and in Europe it is often called benzine.

 

considering  the fact that that is the most popular name by which sick people are requesting this oil from cg's and dispensaries nationwide, I'd say naptha is quite commonly used to produce it. To say it is not being done on a large scale is a head buried in the sand. Not just on youtube, but right here in this very forum are many instructionals using naptha,  and other solvents like acetone, etc. The mere use does not justify the safety, but its use is not exceptional, it is almost the standard. Even gw pharms uses naptha when extracting. the difference is in the equipment and knowledge employed there. When 100% of the benzene can be verifiably removed form the end product I see no safety issues at all.

I've never heard anyone here, or elsewhere using a rotational evaporator, digi scales with accurate weight in and out, fume hoods, etc.

You can find folks on youtube doing things stupidly, granted. Everything you can think of. I bet you can find one where someone pokes themselves in the eye with a fork.

 

On the other hand;

 

You can get a safe extractor that uses alcohol on eBay. You can even use it to purify your alcohol so you know it IS 100% alcohol before you use it. We all need to be safe. It's also important not to paint ourselves into a corner by using broad sweeping statements that would hurt a patients ability to do their own extraction at home. Alcohol is a 'safe use' extraction solvent if you do it correctly.

Edited December 14, 2013 by grassmatch

[Highlander]

 

peanutbutter,  in this post you state you switched to naptha awhile ago. now you do not support the use of naptha?  can you tell us what you used before naptha, and now?

 

Member

• 
• Members
• 
• 8,093 posts

• LocationDexter

Posted 13 August 2012 - 08:40 PM

switched to naphtha a while ago.

Oh My!

 

You'd need to go back and read the thread where I dragged PB's feet to the fire after he said that butane is a form of naptha...and when I tried to correct him and inform him and others that naptha can include many compounds with high boiling points he dug his heels in and aimlessly defended using naptha...without acknowledgement that there is a "light" naptha and a "heavy" naptha...untll I redragged his feet to the fire.  I asked him what naptha he had been using, and he wouldn't answer....why?  probably because he had no real clue as to the dangers of the solvent he was using...probably whatever was on sale that week at the local hardware store.  Taking advice from this guy on extractions is a fool's errand.

[trichcycler]

taking  advice from a marijuana forum could be dangerous to ones health.

 

I saw pb "like"  restorium's post of "nobody uses naptha.." and also was reading dozens of naptha user posts here and then saw pb says he actually uses naptha, so I wondered what he used before or after his "switch to naptha awhile ago", and why he support the NON use of it now?

[Restorium2]

Rick who? He's the one who poked himself in the eye with a fork, right? I think you need to be a little more selective in your googling there grassmatch. I'm sure you can 'post dig' going back years, like you just did, and find something else just a nasty. This IS the internet. You need to filter OUT the BS, not post it again now.

[trichcycler]

how else should I show you that using naptha for cannabis extraction is not the exception, but darn near the rule?  I didn't go back years at all, although there were hundreds of thousands of posts listed in the simple google query. I picked one of the ones nearest top form this forum, and it was 13 months old.

Recall, you said it didn't happen, I showed you, it did, and does happen, often.

 

When someone googles "rso" to cure moms cancer, they are instructed to use naptha. Like it or not, it indeed DOES happen. Your post that nobody uses naptha

is BS, Restorium, respectively.

Rick who? He's the one who poked himself in the eye with a fork, right? I think you need to be a little more selective in your googling there grassmatch. I'm sure you can 'post dig' going back years, like you just did, and find something else just a nasty. This IS the internet. You need to filter OUT the BS, not post it again now.