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TheFlyingBuddha

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I looked into LEDs awhile ago, and they didn't look very promising. Just recently i started looking up some information about them again. It seems they've come a long ways since them. Some of the new higher output LEDs show real good potential. They're aren't cheap, especially the good ones that provide adequate/comparable coverage compared to the HIDs, but over a longer period of time, they are way more cost effective it seems.

 

Check this link out, and see some results from under on of thier LED panels.

 

http://www.thcfarmer.com/forums/f137/penetration-examples-our-led-grow-lights-18280/

 

TFB

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It looks like LEDgirl is making a good lamp. Yielding a pound under 252 watts is excellent. Wait till the plasma lamps hit the market in a minute though. :o I'm thinking those are going to blow everything else away. I've been waiting twenty years for these lights to come out. High Times did a front page story on it back then. I'm sure some SuperLED will come out to give plasma a run for its' money though.

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It looks like LEDgirl is making a good lamp. Yielding a pound under 252 watts is excellent. Wait till the plasma lamps hit the market in a minute though. :o I'm thinking those are going to blow everything else away. I've been waiting twenty years for these lights to come out. High Times did a front page story on it back then. I'm sure some SuperLED will come out to give plasma a run for its' money though.

 

I've never really looked into the plasmas before. If they can beat the gr/watt of this i'd be very impressed. Even more important, what is the expected expenitures for the life of the light/fixture/etc.

 

With those LEDs, the only thing you would have to replace is the power driver once every ten years or so, so when you take into account the savings on not buying bulbs, power consumption, and long lifetime of equipment given proper care, i believe these are on their way to being more cost effective compared to HID.

 

I haven't actually use an LED myself yet, but some of the new information is making me wonder about it. They are a lot more expensive up front, so its something to consider, or maybe even wait a few more years for some better products/price drops.

 

Do you have any good information on those plasmas?

 

TFB

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LEDGirl started a thread, on icmag IIRC, on how LEDs might be cost competitive compared to a 400W HID setup with cooling. Her cost comparison included a hood, vent fans and ducting for the HID light but not the LED. Also included HID bulb replacement every year, not needed for LED. With those assumptions, and the power savings, costs per year were pretty close.

 

I still bought HPS lights for my latest setup, but it was a decent argument for considering LEDs over HID lamps for a 250-400W (HID) closet setup.

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Wow... Much more impressive than what I've seen before. I remember reading in high times about an experimental LED diode(single diode) that produced around TWO MILLION lumens being created in china. Ever since then I have had some faith that eventually these types of lights will be the standard.

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I've never really looked into the plasmas before. If they can beat the gr/watt of this i'd be very impressed. Even more important, what is the expected expenitures for the life of the light/fixture/etc.

 

With those LEDs, the only thing you would have to replace is the power driver once every ten years or so, so when you take into account the savings on not buying bulbs, power consumption, and long lifetime of equipment given proper care, i believe these are on their way to being more cost effective compared to HID.

 

I haven't actually use an LED myself yet, but some of the new information is making me wonder about it. They are a lot more expensive up front, so its something to consider, or maybe even wait a few more years for some better products/price drops.

 

Do you have any good information on those plasmas?

 

TFB

 

Maybe I'll start a new thread on it. I don't know that much but I read some things about it that sound amazing. A 250 watt system has a lamp the size of a medium sized necklace bead and puts out high intensity, high quality light without much heat. The main drawbacks seem to be price and not enough red spectrum yet. Requiring microwave energy is something I would be concerned about too. It looks like these lights might be on the shelves within a year. One model is supposed to be out this spring if I recall correctly. Sorry to hijack, buddha. I am just excited about this technology coming out. LEDs are something anyone can use right now and the results LEDgirl got with her light look like good evidence that LEDs have arrived.

 

Post by plasmargon:

 

http://www.gardenscu...sma-lamp-3.html

Plasma Light Source (PLS) systems ARE the future! permalink Yes; there have been many very successful industrial grow projects using the old Sulphur Plasma.

 

Magnetron failure was the main complaint, and that says a lot considering the main component is a glass bulb spinning at 1200 RPM to keep it from instantly melting and becoming a fire hazard, not to mention the fact it would be like having a microwave oven above your heads (the energy, size and weight of a microwave).

 

WELL CHECK THIS OUT!

 

They have taken the concept of sulfur plasma to another level. It's now solid state (no moving parts). Instant on and less than a minute to re-strike, computer interface to monitor status, down to 20% dim-ability (cool option for catastrophic heat buildup prevention) spectral power distribution is similar to the output of the sun (they're working on the Red) and, before this new product really even goes to market they've already increased the output 35% across the board (including Red) according to inside people. That's awesome when you really think about it. Imagine where they'll be in ten years!

 

These things are made to last and the diminishment of light is negligible. If my calculations are right, if they really did accomplish 35% more efficiency on top of 120 Lumen per watt, that put's them over 160 lumen per watt! And the weight? About the weight of a normal HPS system. They use focused radio waves to accomplish the stable energy instead of microwave emitters. Right now they make a 250 watt driver that has the PAR Watt equivalent of a 400 w Metal Halide, with this new upgrade it will be even better. It's perfect for the veg cycle (with less heat and more light per watt) and soon they will be releasing the new driver with an adjusted spectrum, more to the red range. I'm telling you all, (I feel almost prophetic) Solid State PLS (Plasma Light Source) Systems ARE the future.

 

And the cost? This 250 watt system puts any 400 watt system to shame, and will cost less than the $1300 LED systems newly offered, will last longer and grow more with less electricity and heat than any other possible competitor. I'll keep you informed about the release date of the Horticultural model.

 

Here's some info and a link for the video

Luxim Plasma Light Bulb Kicks Some Serious LED Butt : TreeHugger

 

Here it comes!~ The age of light without heat.

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Maybe I'll start a new thread on it. I don't know that much but I read some things about it that sound amazing. A 250 watt system has a lamp the size of a medium sized necklace bead and puts out high intensity, high quality light without much heat. The main drawbacks seem to be price and not enough red spectrum yet. Requiring microwave energy is something I would be concerned about too. It looks like these lights might be on the shelves within a year. One model is supposed to be out this spring if I recall correctly. Sorry to hijack, buddha. I am just excited about this technology coming out. LEDs are something anyone can use right now and the results LEDgirl got with her light look like good evidence that LEDs have arrived.

 

Post by plasmargon:

 

http://www.gardenscu...sma-lamp-3.html

Plasma Light Source (PLS) systems ARE the future! permalink Yes; there have been many very successful industrial grow projects using the old Sulphur Plasma.

 

Magnetron failure was the main complaint, and that says a lot considering the main component is a glass bulb spinning at 1200 RPM to keep it from instantly melting and becoming a fire hazard, not to mention the fact it would be like having a microwave oven above your heads (the energy, size and weight of a microwave).

 

WELL CHECK THIS OUT!

 

They have taken the concept of sulfur plasma to another level. It's now solid state (no moving parts). Instant on and less than a minute to re-strike, computer interface to monitor status, down to 20% dim-ability (cool option for catastrophic heat buildup prevention) spectral power distribution is similar to the output of the sun (they're working on the Red) and, before this new product really even goes to market they've already increased the output 35% across the board (including Red) according to inside people. That's awesome when you really think about it. Imagine where they'll be in ten years!

 

These things are made to last and the diminishment of light is negligible. If my calculations are right, if they really did accomplish 35% more efficiency on top of 120 Lumen per watt, that put's them over 160 lumen per watt! And the weight? About the weight of a normal HPS system. They use focused radio waves to accomplish the stable energy instead of microwave emitters. Right now they make a 250 watt driver that has the PAR Watt equivalent of a 400 w Metal Halide, with this new upgrade it will be even better. It's perfect for the veg cycle (with less heat and more light per watt) and soon they will be releasing the new driver with an adjusted spectrum, more to the red range. I'm telling you all, (I feel almost prophetic) Solid State PLS (Plasma Light Source) Systems ARE the future.

 

And the cost? This 250 watt system puts any 400 watt system to shame, and will cost less than the $1300 LED systems newly offered, will last longer and grow more with less electricity and heat than any other possible competitor. I'll keep you informed about the release date of the Horticultural model.

 

Here's some info and a link for the video

Luxim Plasma Light Bulb Kicks Some Serious LED Butt : TreeHugger

 

Here it comes!~ The age of light without heat.

 

I'm always excited to hear about new technology, no apology needed for hijacking; its all good. =)

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I'm glad to see that video I sent you sparked your interest. I really don't see that downfall in this type of system other than the initial cost. It produces hardly any heat(less of a safety hazard) and uses less electricity(saving you money in the long run). Like you said we need to have a side by side comparison of the harvest to determine which one is ultimately better in the final product.

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That could also be a great way to save money also. Anyway that would help me in the long run is the route that I would want to take. Once again it just comes to the initial cost...

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LEDs are a great way to conserve energy in the rest of your house

 

CFL 40 watt = 8 watt LED

 

Yep... Like 30 bucks per bulb

 

If you switch your lights around the house to these you save in the long run and LEDS last forever I think...a really really Longtime

 

And no mercury to deal with on disposal

 

I just figured out the lights in the bathroom run like 300 watts !!! what?

 

And track lights 400 watts hall light 60 two three other lights add 300 more

 

 

Like 1400 watts worth of lights right there

 

hmmmmm ...Its Crazy!

 

Add computer, tv , stereo, and other junk you may have running

 

It adds up very very fast...one powerbill I'm gonna do some checking for cheaper prices on LED lamps...well maybe thoughs household LEDS would be better for growing than they make for growing? These one I saw were 8 watt...they propably make bigger ones!

 

They would probably only be suited for scrog or cabinet style grows but effecient and last forever

 

Like this one

http://www.ledtronics.com/products/ProductsDetails.aspx?WP=C803K977

 

I found a new 330 watt LED called LumiGrow which is suppose to rival a 600 watt HPS

 

http://www.lumigrow.com/Products.html

 

Heres a start to finish test of the 330watt LED system

 

http://forum.grasscity.com/general-indoor-growing/431359-lumigrow-es-330w-led-test.html

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I think this would definitely be the route that I am going to take if/when I start this process. Its a high start cost, but you can make that up in a year or two with bulb replacement/electricity. I am looking for the money to save in the long run. I also heard that these bulbs last forever, what is the duration of the 400w or even the cfls?

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WAIT STOP!! before you get one of the lamps try to find some pictures of decent looking buds grown underneath one. you can't. HID is still better IMO. I have yet to see anything from a LED that wouldn't make it past the bubble bags.

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Yes, its all still very new. A couple of years ago when i looked into leds for the first time, it didn't even look like there was potential in the future of these light type. However, if you look at some of the stuff produced under them now, there is a considerable difference. Now might not be the time, but it will probably happen within the next five to ten years.

 

reddy, did you even look at any of the links i posted? I find there results considerable considering my previous attitude toward LED setups. I've never used one myself, and i don't plan on it anytime soon, however, the results, if they are indeed accurate, do pique my interest and it will definitely make me on the look out for them in the future.

 

Its good information, just like the comment from mezzy about the plasmas, we all need to keep up on the current technology.

TFB

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Sorry for the old thread bump, but I was just looking up threads here where I posted in favor of Hydro-Grow LEDs, to post the following info / updates.

 

Clearly you can't believe everything you read on the Internet, but many people seem to be telling similar stories about the owner of Hydro-Grow LEDs, and it's not a good story.

 

Logic, the owner/admin of thcfarmer.com, posted an email where LEDGirl recently threatened to sue / narc on Logic: http://www.thcfarmer.com/forums/f137/ledgirl-threatens-narc-me-out-26228/ Users on several forums have posted similar stories, frequently along these lines:

 

Cammie aka LEDgirl threatened to turn my address into the authorities simply for calling her out in one of her threads on icmag then deleted my posts and than continued to curse me out in private messages, take it for what you want but do not give this girl an inch because she will stick a foot in your mouth.

http://advancedmarij...htsledgirl-scam

http://www.420magazi...875-post63.html

http://www.420magazi...o-grow-led.html

 

In fact, you might be able to trace 'LEDgirl's shady business practices back through a name change, to some shady deals in imported car parts:

http://www.automotiv...ack_again_.html

 

 

Caveat Emptor!

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i tried searching for an old post i made about LED's but i cant seem to find it :(

 

too many posts to sift through.

 

anyways, i have never grown under LED lights, and i never will.

 

the ONLY thing that would attract me to LED lighting is the bulb life. they last forever. well 10 years anyways.

 

i have seen, personally, LED grows.

 

do they work? heck yeah. not the best by far, but they get the job done.

 

there is no way that i would pay the initial start-up price to have LED lights. sure they will last you 10 years, but WAY BEFORE that 10 years is up, plasma lighting will be much more affordable and that will FINALLY take the place of HID lamps.

 

and i will make the same analogy in this post that i did in the one i cant find............................

 

not sure how old everyone is, but im sure you remember VHS right? vcr tapes?

 

well, in the transition from VHS, we had BETA ............ ans does anyone remember those big LP looking metal laser discs??

 

yeah those were the shizznit for about 2 years............. until DVD came along.

 

LED is laserdisc.

 

it will be a passing fad......... it is just an attempt to "one up" HID lighting............ but VERY soon, the price of plasma will come down, and we will all have our HID's on craigslist.

 

myself included.

 

right now, the equivalent of a 1k HID lamp is going to cost about $1200 for plasma. and that drops a few dollars every month.

 

i know i will have them by the end of next year no matter what............ but within the next few years, they will be just as affordable as HID lighting.......................

 

and LED grow lights will get packed away as antiques.............. just like my laserdisc collection.

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BG the actual life if LEDs is much lower than 10 years. I forgot if it was the reds or the blues that were the problem but one of them loses much of their efficiency after just 3 years. Since you can't easily replace individual LEDs in these lights you are pretty much screwed.

 

LEDgirls web site was full of typical advertising tricks that made claims that may be true but were meaningless in comparing with other HID lights. I always knew her sales techniques were less than honest.

 

In any side by side grows I have seen in order for LEDs to match or beat HIDs they have to match watt for watt. So if you are burning 400 or 600 watts anyway why go through the extra expense of LEDs? You can buy a lot of HPS bulbs for the added cost of LEDs.

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Interesting. The ultra violet spectrum is much higher than sunlight in the plasma. The overall spectrum is more flat than the sun. What is up with that ballast size? Holy cow that thing just looks like a PITA to deal with. I wonder what it weighs? For now I am happy with my HPS. I may move up to a 600 watt electronic ballast soon.

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LED grow lights will get packed away as antiques.............. just like my laserdisc collection.

 

A cousin of mine still has one of those and what's more it still works! :). I've been shopping around for lighting for my upcoming project and I've got to admit that the LED option is at least somewhat attractive. Low power consumption, and no heat signature... Yes that's attractive. But for the time being I'm with you, and I'll be going with a more conventional lighting plan and holding out for a practical (meaning affordable) plasma light. I think I'm going to go with a 4 bulb T5 @ 6400k for veg. and a 400w HPS for flower.

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I've got to admit that the LED option is at least somewhat attractive. Low power consumption, and no heat signature...

 

I think that is a myth. There is a heat signature. Unlike HPS where the heat is mostly generated by the bulbs an LED generates heat in the ballast. I don't know how they compare in BTUs wise but if it takes 400 watts of LEDs to cover the same area as 400 watts of HPS I would be the heat is about the same. And in the real world side by side grows I have seen they had to match watt for watt to get the same results. Don't believe that BS that a 90 watt LED will replace a 400 watt HPS.

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LED's work great as side lighting with a T5 or 2... T5 gives the coverage and LED gives the intensity... If your doing a small closet grow and/or veg room, this is the only way to go. If you have a nice flower room HPS is KING...

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