Dr. Greenthumb Seeds

[porcupine]

Hey everybody,I just wanted to get a thread going on Doc's gear.I am very partial to his genetics as I have had nothing but good experiences with them and would like to hear about anyone else's experience with Doc and his genetics. Everything I have ever ordered from him has been as advertised and was everything I expected and more. If anyone has any reservations on ordering his gear then check out his strains in Ed Rosenthal's The Big Book of Buds. He has his own personal strains in all three volumes. In particular check out pg.115 in volume one,there is a short bio and a nice feature on his travels around the world and how Niagara was created. Niagara and Niagara/Shiva cross should be of particular note for Michigan patients who want to grow their meds outdoors as they were developed and fine tuned for our climate here as his operation is in Ottawa Ontario which is approximately the the same latitude as Grand Rapids. Endless Sky is also of significant interest to us in Michigan as it is a devastatingly potent mostly indica that is an extremely high yielder and finishes it's flowering cycle depending on the situation in as little as six to seven weeks.It is actually one of the most popular strains in Canada. He has a brand new strain called The Dope which is a cross of Endless Sky and Chumaluma which took him eight years to perfect.It is supposed to be more potent and higher yielding than Endless Sky and is supposed to be a very unique plant.It was never on his website list because the initial batch was very limited and you either had to ask or you would have been made aware of it when placing an order when it was available(it sold out really fast but I hear more will be coming). I had the chance to get it but I went with his Chemdawg#4 S-1 original clone backcross this time around. I will definately be picking it up when it becomes available again. Pay very close attention to his site as there SHOULD be some VERY elite strains coming up in the next couple of months that have NEVER been available in seed form (or so I hear )!

One of the great things about Doc is you can actually call and talk to him in person with any questions or concerns. He is probably one of the smartest breeders on the planet and in my opinion is one the top five breeders in the world at this time(probably in the top two).Sometimes I hear about people bitching about his price which is moo poo because he has strains at all price levels from $100.00 up to $225.00 per 10 pack(actually 11 pack as he always sends an extra)and I have never been disappointed as everything has been stable and as advertised in my personal experience. He"s got The real deal clone only S-1 backcrosses of OG kush,Bubba Kush,and Cindy-99 on sale right now for $150.00 so I don't understand why he gets the rep for being expensive.Any good stable strain from any reputable breeder or seedbank generally runs $150.00-$250.00. If you think Doc's prices are high then check out Soma's and some of Sensi-Seeds gear which is WAY overpriced(my opinion),their genetics are high quality but not worth what they charge for some strains(up to $400.00 per 10 pack).

I have started a grow journal for Doc's Chemdawg#4 cut in this forum so stay tuned if you are interested in seeing how it turns out.

[christinax4]

thanks porcupine...good post!

[porcupine]

He"s got The real deal clone only S-1 backcrosses of OG kush,Bubba Kush,and Cindy-99 backcrosses on sale right now for $150.00 so I don't understand why he gets the rep for being expensive.Any good stable strain from any reputable breeder or seedbank generally runs $150.00-$250.00.

 

 

That's debatable. And yes he is expensive to a point. C99 was created by Brothers Grimm and can be found on seed banks from Joey Weed, The Rev, and a few Canadian breeders who bought the Original stock from the Brothers. They are selling it for 40-60bucks. I don't call $15 a bean a sale. I would buy a clone at that price. This coming from a bean collector. Just my .02

I know exactly where Cindy-99 comes from. Cindy-99 was a seed with many different genetic expressions(in other words you must select carefully)There was a particular genotype that is EXTREMELY pineapple flavored and is much more potent than the normal Cindy-99. This particular geno was clone only as no one ever stabilized that form. This is the Pineapple cut that Doc has released. Those other breeders do NOT have a stabilized Cindy-99. Doc's clone only backcrosses are the REAL DEAL. I have grown most of his original cuts and there is NO difference. I would have NOT posted this up if I was not sure of the genuine genetics he uses(by the way he paid $20,000 for his ORIGINAL Bubba-Kush Katsu Cut clones back when they were impossible to obtain). Doc is a Bubba smoker himself so he knows Bubba. Joey Weed is a scam(scam isn't the right word.I think I should substitute unstable).I know some people have had good luck with some of Joey's gear but it is NOT stable and they have gotten lucky with their selection. Joey's gear is usually F-1 or F-2 where you generally have to do some serious selecting to get the right expression due to the extreme variation. I have never had a problem with any of Doc's gear having stability issues, especially his elite clone only gear. I've grown his Original Cheese, Bubba- Kush,and OG-Kush and you could NOT tell ANY difference between 10 plants of the same strain growing next to each other. Doc has the resources to grow thousands of an individual strain to make selections for breeding and like I mentioned you can actually call Doc if you are having issues or concerns. How many other professional breeders can you do this with? None come to my mind.

I am not trying to advertise for Doc or any one else, as I said I just have a passion for Doc's gear as I have a lot of experience with it. I don't like to be negative about anyone's stuff as everyone is an individual and can get different results. PLEASE remember if you are a beginning grower DO NOT purchase CHEAP seeds unless you are prepared to do some serious professional style selection and grow the whole lot of seeds out,clone each individual female,flower each female,and then process each female before you even know what you have(and then you have grow out the clone of the plant you selected to make more babies)which can take a year or more for the whole process to do. At least stick with a proven professional breeder for your first few grows(several others come to mind like DJ Short,Soma, and DNA, but this topic is not about those breeders)so do some research before sending off for cheap seeds. In general ANYBODY should stay away from cheap seeds,there is a reason they are cheap. Remember you generally get what you pay for in this world. Cheap is not always a good thing. Pay for premium stable genetics. Think about it, it is the same way when purchasing a dog or other animal that has a premium pedigree,sure you might get lucky at the pound or petshop but generally you just get problems made by unscrupulous breeders or past owners. I paid $2,000 for my blue American Staffordshire Terrier/Pitbull and I have NEVER had a better dog. I have bred top notch Pitbulls for many years in my past, but NONE compare to what I now have.

[porcupine]

I don't know what you mean by REAL DEAL. Cindy 99 was never an F1. It was a backcross. Unless you are Soul you don't have the Real Deal. Period. Everything else is a Knock Off.

Cindy-99 was a seed strain that expressed many variations in the original strain that Brothers Grim(Soul) put out. The original version of C99 is not available any more. Gypsy Nirvana is the only company that has an "authorized" version of the original,an F-2 of Brothers Grimm(Soul)original C99.What Doc has is the particular cut of Cindy-99 called the Pineapple cut in which you would have to have gone through a several packs of seeds to get one plant to show that genotype. Similar to Cherry AK-47 in which you generally have to grow out approx. 100 seeds to get that particular expression in just one plant. What I mean by real deal is there is a clone only variety of Cindy-99 called the Pineapple Cut that is going around in certain lucky areas. No one has attempted to stabilize this particular expression in a seed form yet just like Cherry-AK-47 so if you want this particular expession then your only choice is to get the real clone or plant a lot of seeds and select(or get Doc's selfed seeds from that particular clone) .Doc has gotten a cut of the real Pineapple expression and released it. Most people are not aware that there is a genotype that is far better than the average Cindy-99 plant(not that Cindy-99 is an average strain, just that on average you will not get the extreme pineapple form without growing out many plants). Sometimes I can't articulate what I'm thinking properly so I hope this may have cleared up what you were asking about real deal.I hope I'm not confusing you or anyone else. So essentially what I mean by real deal is that the seeds were selfed(properly may I add) from the real clone only form.

[reddy]

pineapple is a common c99 pheno. c99 breeds true and there's not a lot of variation, a grapefruit and a pineapple pheno.

 

i do like his user submitted pictures. most breeders only show 1 or 2 photos of each strain.

 

http://www.drgreenthumb.com/GreenthumbSeedsPhotoGallery.htm

[porcupine]

pineapple is a common c99 pheno. c99 breeds true and there's not a lot of variation, a grapefruit and a pineapple pheno.

 

i do like his user submitted pictures. most breeders only show 1 or 2 photos of each strain.

 

http://www.drgreenthumb.com/GreenthumbSeedsPhotoGallery.htm

The Pineapple cut is the most coveted form of Cindy-99. C99 is known for it's pineapple smell and taste but the Pineapple cut is a whole different ballpark. It is MUCH more flavorful and potent than the average C99(and like I said C99 is NOT an average strain). It's only an F-2 from seed form so there is much more variation in growth pattern and maturation times than people think. The pineapple pheno I'm talking about is totally different than the normal pineapple pheno(or actually genotype, however you want to say it).They are confusing terms to many people.

[reddy]

you know this because you've grown out all the breeder's c99(probably close to 10) and dr. greenthumb's and his is totally better. i'm not sure i believe that he's the only one with a killer C99.

 

not just an F2 in seed form(that's gypsy's version), it's an IBL and various breeders did different things from those orginal seeds, wallyduck took it to F7 from BG stock, mosca took GN and WD stock to make his.

[Grow Thread]

hi guys!!

 

just wanted to chime in. you have made some real good points, but let's not forget what's REALLY happening here. Marijuana from seed is much like humans from the embryo. as an amateur breeder myself i have seen it first hand. geno's, pheno's.... whatever nowadays, can be hidden for numerous generations. i know you guys are talking about cindy99 and i know some about the strain, but not enough to enter a conversation about it..... but i will say that it is a strain of marijuana, and the genetics can be "dormant" for generations only to emerge later. kind of like 2 or 3 generations going by in your family and then a kid with red hair shows up?? wtf? "where did that come from?".... well, "my great-grandfathers sister had red hair".... see what i am getting at?

 

i bought a pack of Nirvana White Widow in 1997. Shortly after widow was introduced, Nirvana and one other seed breeder obtained a packet of seeds and ran with them. by 1997 nirvana had picked the best of the bunch, crossed, back-crossed, blah blah the strain with itself before "stabilizing" it somewhat and then selling the strain themselves. well, i obtained a packet of 20 beans from Nirvana in 1997 and have been growing that strain ever since. thats a long donkey time and a crapload of harvests. i initially picked the best male of the bunch and hand-pollinated the best female. so i had my own batch of 100 or so seeds to play with. the differences in genetics that has come out over the years with these beans is incredible.

 

i have read hundreds of grow journals in the last 15 years. i am not joking about that either. in most of those grow journals the strain being grown was Nirvana White Widow. i have followed it forever. i am not a pro.... nor will i ever be, but i promise you that through my own playing around with the strain over the years, i have had traits from the original award winning strain come through. when this happens, i clone them. and then i have pollinated those clones with a new "best male of the bunch", and produced another batch of seeds..... and so on.

 

long story, sorry, but the moral is this.... F1, F89, original.... matters yes.... but like blonde parents with a redheaded child.... sh*t happens. and marijuana is very unpredictable. B)

[porcupine]

you know this because you've grown out all the breeder's c99(probably close to 10) and dr. greenthumb's and his is totally better. i'm not sure i believe that he's the only one with a killer C99.

 

not just an F2 in seed form(that's gypsy's version), it's an IBL and various breeders did different things from those orginal seeds, wallyduck took it to F7 from BG stock, mosca took GN and WD stock to make his.

I know this because I'm not talking about other breeders work with C99. I am talking about a particular genotype that no other breeder has tried to stabilize. I am not saying that the other breeders versions are not good or stable in their own way or that you can't get this genotype from them if you select. Who knows, you could get a better version for all I know. I guess what I am trying to get across is that if you want this particular genotype in a stable all female form then this is the only place you will find it. In essence you are getting a pre-packaged clone of the original clone of this genotype.

I am NOT belittling any other breeders work as I don't pretend to know all their versions. As was mentioned above,cannabis is a plant and crap does happen. Most people don't realize how adaptable plants in general are,particularly cannabis. There are ways that cannabis can be manipulated by individual breeders, especially when you have the resources to grow thousands of plants of the same strain or clones of a strain. For example,I'll bet most people don't know that if you grow multi-thousands of a particular clone right next to each other they can actually produce a true male( not a herm) out of the need for the survival of the species. This is extremely rare but it does happen. If you think about it there are many species of animals(in particular fish) that can change their sex as needed for survial of the species and also in the normal course of their existance(parrot fish and clown fish for example). We are only beginning to scratch the surface of plant biology. Botanists and breeders have come a long way over the years but with all the new technologies being developed we will soon be finding out some new incredible traits that plants posses or have the potential to posses.

Once again I want to stress that I am NOT belittling any other breeders version of C-99.

[porcupine]

I'm not sure if anyone here is growing Dr Greenthumb's Chemdawg/G-13 cross. It should be of interest to all as this cross is capable of yielding up to 1 pound on a two foot bush indoors. This comes direct from Doc's mouth. I have yet to see anything negative about this cross he's made on any forum. It sold out almost immediately when it became available but I heard it will be back soon. Next time it is available this is one I will definitely be picking up as I missed out on the original batch.

[Cannastyle]

Wow....did not think that thread was going to take me 20 minutes to read.

 

Good looks on the Doc Greenthumb review Porcupine....I have been eyeballing his Bubba and his Ghost cut for a while now. Still trying to decide if I am gonna go with the Docs or wait for OGR's White x Bubba cross to come around again.

 

That C99 has had me interested as well.....dammit there goes another huge chunk of cash.

[porcupine]

Wow....did not think that thread was going to take me 20 minutes to read.

 

Good looks on the Doc Greenthumb review Porcupine....I have been eyeballing his Bubba and his Ghost cut for a while now. Still trying to decide if I am gonna go with the Docs or wait for OGR's White x Bubba cross to come around again.

 

That C99 has had me interested as well.....dammit there goes another huge chunk of cash.

Bubba and Bubba crosses are all good! I can vouch for Doc's though, it is one plant that will never leave my collection!

[Rocketman]

In the world of genetics... there are two types of traits Genotypes and Phenotypes. Genotypes usually play the dominant role in breeding...however if the 2 phenotypes hit they may overpower that particular genotype and revert back to a line from 1 to 1000 crosses ago. that is the wonder of nature. That is why the only 2 exact things that exists together is a true clone . The recessive traits will come forth sooner or later. This is also necessary for the plant to survive. If all recessive traits were to go away then our beloved girls would share the same fate as the great potato... anyone remember the stories of the great potato famine... this was caused by all subtypes of the great potato were eliminated for the great potato they had. Well this plant was now no longer able to resist a nasty disease. It is great there are so many strains of sativa and indica. We must stay with a great diversity of plants to ensure the survival of this amazing medicinal plant. So all you growers...keep doing what you are doing. Raise that banner high...I HAVE A NEW STRAIN. Keep them coming lets rejoice in the bio-diversity of these plants for they will survive.

[Rocketman]

I am wondering.... a strain that has been unchanged since the late 70's that may be a bit less diverse than all the new strains. Perhaps a clean slate more on this to come...

[reddy]

Brothers Grim retired and do not mind others working with their lines. If actually do, then screw them, cannabis is to be shared and enjoyed by all. anybody who breeds has to deal with being knocked off, highest form of flattery in this biz.

 

Sweet #3 or Sweet Tooth#3? Neither on seedbay still.

[MichiganMan]

I have been wanting to try some of Dr. Greenthumbs stuff for awhile now. I have been really interested in the Iranian Auto Flower and a couple of his other stuff.

[porcupine]

Hey Porcupine, just FYI, and don't take this the wrong way. Don't take everything the Gypsy says for gospel. He is still selling knock offs from Breeder Steve's Sweet Tooth #3, of the seconds Steve sent him to give away as freebies..........years ago. As far as having the rights to sell Mr. Soul's gear, I would like to see the link/authorization........LOL. That is like I would love to talk to Vic High again........not gonna happen my friend. Good Times IJ

I guess I don't understand what you are talking about. Dr Greenthumb doesn't have anything to do with or sell anything with Sweet Tooth #3 in the mix.

[Cannastyle]

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Hey Porcupine, just FYI, and don't take this the wrong way. Don't take everything the Gypsy says for gospel. He is still selling knock offs from Breeder Steve's Sweet Tooth #3, of the seconds Steve sent him to give away as freebies..........years ago. As far as having the rights to sell Mr. Soul's gear, I would like to see the link/authorization........LOL. That is like I would love to talk to Vic High again........not gonna happen my friend. Good Times IJ

 

Who cares?!?!?!?!?!

 

Where do you think all the strains we work with today came from? Unless you have real old school seed stock......its all ripoffs from other peoples genetics. Everyone uses everyone elses stock. Just look at the progression of White Widow like Bubblegrower wrote....or Chemdawg....Blueberry....everything gets ripped off one way or another....That's just life in the cannabis world my friend.

 

Most of these breeders are doing us growers a favor, by selfing some of these hard to find cuts and making them available to everyone. The elite cut scene is slowing being eradicated by breeders bringing all of these strains to us in seed form.

 

Don't hate bro....this is a good thing.

 

....and do you have a link showing Doc's ripoff of Sweet Tooth #3...I have been looking for that strain LMAO

[porcupine]

I think that is why a lot of seed producers are coming out with femmed seed as well, harder to 'knock off'.

The reason any reliable seed producer puts out feminized seeds is to save the customer time who has no interest in breeding and doesn't want to chance getting eight males in a pack of ten seeds. If there is no male to a particular strain or they want to make a cross between two clone only strains then the only option is to backcross to the original clone or cross the two clones. No reputable breeder on this planet would release the resulting seeds if there was ANY issue with them and they were not tested first. People really need to get over the feminized seed thing unless you plan on breeding. I used to be the same way, but the feminization process is worlds away from what it used to be. Just two years ago I would have held the same opinion as fems at that point were not a very reliable product because there actually was "pollen chucking" going on with certain seed companies. Basically it just boils down to opinions as everything cannabis does.

[porcupine]

I have been wanting to try some of Dr. Greenthumbs stuff for awhile now. I have been really interested in the Iranian Auto Flower and a couple of his other stuff.

I've heard good things about it, but if it were me I would go with the Iranian/G-13 cross as it is almost as quick finishing, just as potent but yields a lot better. I just personally hate autoflowers as they are VERY difficult to clone. I wish Doc would release his pure Iranian, but I don't think that's gonna happen.

[tricloud]

I think that is why a lot of seed producers are coming out with femmed seed as well, harder to 'knock off'.

 

I agree.

[tricloud]

I don't know what you mean by REAL DEAL. Cindy 99 was never an F1. It was a backcross. Unless you are Soul you don't have the Real Deal. Period. Everything else is a Knock Off.

 

I don't think Soul is the only one with the "Real Deal C99" but he is the original holder of "Princess" which is the Mother of C99. Soul is the only one who can make C99 seeds if he is the only one holding the Princess clone. I know his partner Sly did release the Princess and Genius clones to some "friends". It pissed Soul off but I can't say that I blame him. I think Sly's care free sharing habbits had something to do with The Brothers Grimm end.

 

C99 = C88 X Princess. If somebody had a real original choice C88 male and the Princess clone they could make real C99.

 

I have made C99 "F2's" and tried many other "C99 F2's" and have yet to see any that produce the same thing that the original Brothers Grimm C99 seeds did.

 

Soul was perfectly aware that making "C99 F2's" would produce a product that was inferior to the original C99. That's a big reason he didn't keep making C88 and took it as far as he did. They say C88 was more potent than C99 and when I grew out my first C88 X C99 seeds I believed it. Even though these were a cross the offspring were more potent than C99 alone.

 

I grew out 3 packs of Original Brothers Grimm C99 ($450) to select the one female I have now.

[avgjoe]

I have heard good words about Dr.Greenthumbs work.But as far as buying fem seeds,i wouldnt touch them with a 10 foot pole.I got some

fem seeds from Greenhouse seeds and they were both male,good thing i didnt pay for them.That seed company is a real joke.Good breeders make regular

seeds,not just fem seeds to make a quick buck.

[greenthumb seeds]

Just a note.

We have never, ever had a single male or hemaphroditic plant from any of our feminized seed unless it was very late in flowering where this is a natural occurrence. We have developed our own method of feminization and so far it has proven bullet-proof.

[porcupine]

Just a note.

We have never, ever had a single male or hemaphroditic plant from any of our feminized seed unless it was very late in flowering where this is a natural occurrence. We have developed our own method of feminization and so far it has proven bullet-proof.

Thanks Doc. Now you've heard from the man himself.