My Run In With Leo

[naturescaregivers]

Hey everyone. Just wanted to remind everyone to keep their paperwork organized and handy, and also to keep strict watch over your plant count. LEO is active and focusing their efforts on medical patients. I don't know about the rest of you but I was getting lax with my operation thinking I would never have a visit from the narcs. I don't sell any weed to anyone and only grow for my dad because he is a patient. However that didn't keep LEO from somehow getting a tip that I grow. I think the police departments are conducting illegal activities getting confidential information from the MDCH. Can anyone verify similar cases? I don't see any other way they could know. I mean my closest neighbor is over 2 acres away and I use carbon filters and my room is sealed.

 

Anyway alot of people think they won't have a run in with the law. Myself included. However just last week, 4 plain clothed undercover officers came to my house and harassed my mother, little brother and I for 35 minutes. These pigs made rude remarks to my mother and almost gave her a heart attack. They threatened to take her house and all her possessions. They threatened to make a mockery of our family in the local newspaper. They told her she'd lose her job as a nurse and put all three of use in jail for the night. Needless to say, my mom was horrified and started crying and screaming at me for growing my father's medicine.

 

I was furious and had a hard time controlling my anger. I came off quite defensive and then some young douche bag of a cop, that was currently taking pictures of my car VIN, licence plate, and interior, piped up from afar calling me a criminal because I wouldn't let them into my house. They asked if was innocent why was I being so nervous and defensive. I told them I was a medical grower and only provided medicine to my father.

 

This didn't satisfy them and then one officer tried to corner my mom and get her to give them permission to come in the house. They used numerous tactics to try to break us down and let them inspect our house. They basically said if we don't let them in today they'll be back tomorrow with a warrant and kick down the door with guns drawn.

 

 

I am extremely disappointed in how we, as patients and caregivers, are treated by the people WE PAY to protect us. In this event I was assumed guilty and treated like scum. I've always had a poor opinion of law enforcement but thats been turned to hate.

 

Anyway the only way to make this into a positive situation is to learn from it. I now know that I need to expect an encounter with LEO. I need to write down their badge numbers instead of just looking at them. I need to keep cool and collect my thoughts. Take mental notes of their looks. Have your paperwork handy and organized. Keep plant count in line. Have a copy of the law with important areas highlighted.

 

Anyway this whole ordeal really shook me up. Has anyone else had any experiences like this? How are other medical patients being treated around the state?

[MightyMightyMezz]

Where was this?

[Guest Wayne]

Next time simply don't answer the door. Even if your in your yard, simply walk into your home and close the door, don't answer it. Non confrontational. If they had a warrant it would be all over. If they want to come back and kick the door in let them. Permission to enter gains you absolutely nothing. Never cooperate, never make converstion. Answer no questions. An anonymous tip does not probable cause make, cops smell cannabis anywhere they want to. You cannot negotiate with narco-terrorists and mitigating your own statements in court is improbable.

Video and audio monitoring, if only a camcorder through an open window. Call a friend on speaker to listen in as witness, recorded if possible. Be on defense all the time. LEO is 100% in war mode. We can't overpower them but we can outwit them (haven't many done so succesfully for decades?) Civil disobedience is good for the soul. Patience, time is on our side.

[naturescaregivers]

Southwest MI

[naturescaregivers]

Next time simply don't answer the door. Even if your in your yard, simply walk into your home and close the door, don't answer it. Non confrontational. If they had a warrant it would be all over. If they want to come back and kick the door in let them. Permission to enter gains you absolutely nothing. Never cooperate, never make converstion. Answer no questions. An anonymous tip does not probable cause make, cops smell cannabis anywhere they want to. You cannot negotiate with narco-terrorists and mitigating your own statements in court is improbable.

Video and audio monitoring, if only a camcorder through an open window. Call a friend on speaker to listen in as witness, recorded if possible. Be on defense all the time. LEO is 100% in war mode. We can't overpower them but we can outwit them (haven't many done so succesfully for decades?) Civil disobedience is good for the soul. Patience, time is on our side.

 

Good advice Wayne. I remember Barry Cooper saying the same thing on his videos. Thing is, we didn't know they were cops. They looked like a bunch of fat beer-bellied construction workers. I know we shouldn't have entertained them for as long as we did, but it all happened so fast. Next time I'll be prepared and have my wit about me.

[Kingdiamond]

I plan on just opening a window next to my door and talk that way its a little over 1 foot wide by 3 foot tall nowhere near big enough to squeeze through if they force the issue .

 

Do you participate in compassion clubs or are you vocal around your area about legal cannabis?

 

If what you say is true about LEO being able to access our records it would be very damning to all of our safety's as patients and caregivers .

[phaquetoo]

man I cant believe it! oh wait you said south west mi, that wouldnt be near kent county would it? let them come back and kick the door in! now you have time to make sure you are not over the limit, flush the swag! get rid of anything they can weigh mm related,(not the 12 plants per patient) put the locks on if you dont have it locked up! be prepared, dont be scared, and dont talk to them anymore, post your c.g card on the grow door, put the laws on there also! It is time we start Phaqing with leo! if they are going to continue to phaq with us!

 

Please keep us informed!

Peace!

Jim

[budpuffer]

Next time simply don't answer the door. Even if your in your yard, simply walk into your home and close the door, don't answer it. Non confrontational. If they had a warrant it would be all over. If they want to come back and kick the door in let them. Permission to enter gains you absolutely nothing. Never cooperate, never make converstion. Answer no questions. An anonymous tip does not probable cause make, cops smell cannabis anywhere they want to. You cannot negotiate with narco-terrorists and mitigating your own statements in court is improbable.

Video and audio monitoring, if only a camcorder through an open window. Call a friend on speaker to listen in as witness, recorded if possible. Be on defense all the time. LEO is 100% in war mode. We can't overpower them but we can outwit them (haven't many done so succesfully for decades?) Civil disobedience is good for the soul. Patience, time is on our side.

hear,here.best advice i've seen yet today,and if they do come in,,the only thing that should come out of your mouth is "I want an attorney"..nothing else...zb

[welj31]

[JohnB RPh]

Holy crap that is almost verbatim what happened to me, except in my case my wife had already opened the door and they walked in past her, and then it was too late to get them to leave. To be fair to LEO though, mine were professional and pretty respectful, but the threats were the same if I didn't allow a search. I wonder if we aren't from the same county?

 

I fear since you did admit you were growing they will be back with a warrant, you may want to consider at the very least getting rid of anything that isn't absolutely vital.

 

Good luck, and please keep us updated.

[Guest Wayne]

Just remember. If you refuse LEO entry they will bust down your door, point guns, and possibly shoot your dog and children. If you allow LEO entry I and/or others will do the same. Believe me? YOU BETTER!!!!! Scared now aren't ya?

[Guest Wayne]

When I installed my cameras (with audio capture) I installed a couple speakers on my front porch under the soffit. Play some interesting sound effects when they are standing at my door. Be cheap entertaining fun should the opportunity arise. Let's get creative. A potential You Tube hit or maybe even AFV?

[stxchick]

First thing LEO should do is ask for paperwork. And I agree, I always had mine posted on the outside of the grow room door, on the window of the grow room facing out and a copy on each plant pot/bucket - with the law attached to it! LEO needs to be educated/re-educated - and maybe after a couple of civil suits filed for harassment, they will slow down. Tell them the Feds were ordered not to harass medical patients - why can't they follow suit.

 

And what's the scoop on who we're wanting to see in the Governor seat this year? Top down management. Executive orders to lay off patients!! We should be demanding it - or at least someone should be keeping track of who/how many mj cases have come before each court since the law was passed. A database of this should be kept and tracked. Maybe it's happening already?

 

Best of luck - man, get a recorder - even if it's your cell phone. And call the ACLU!

 

I think that if a police department/agency is receiving federal funds for drug enforcement at all, they should be bound to the same edict that the DEA was given to their agents.

 

[Guest Wayne]

I prefer Biohazard, Flammable liquid, Live ammunition, Explosives signs on my grow room door. My lawyer can show them my papers if they make it to court.

[jason j]

They also threatened me with stuff like. I'LL KILL YOUR DOG I'LL SMASH YOU HOUSE UP when we went inside I needed to put my dog in his cage. I asked them to stand back but I guess that was a problem... One grabbed his cage putting his fingers in it picking the cage up and setting it on the step so you see the cage is not on the ground and unsteady. My dog doesn't like guys and there were a hand full of them I asked the cop to not have his fingers in the cage he did not listen. The cops had there guns draw on me and my dog good thing I have 100% control over my dog he is a 8 year old pit bull I've had him sense he was born hes my buddy. THEY WANTED TO KILL MY DOG I KNOW IT some of them teased him while doing the raid. Lots of threats and intimidation the whole time and grabbing me and getting in my face trying to get me to admit to stupid shittttt I would never do..

[naturescaregivers]

Yeah as they left I thanked them for not shooting my dog lol!

 

Thanks for all the input guys. Lots of good advice posted here and I hope other new caregivers/patients will follow it. It's good to know I'm not alone out there but it makes me sick thinking other MI citizens are being treated this way.

 

Holy crap that is almost verbatim what happened to me, except in my case my wife had already opened the door and they walked in past her, and then it was too late to get them to leave. To be fair to LEO though, mine were professional and pretty respectful, but the threats were the same if I didn't allow a search. I wonder if we aren't from the same county?

 

Luckily my little brother answered the door and told them to leave if they didn't have a warrant. He told me one of the officers accused him of being a criminal and said they wouldn't leave until they talked with the owner of the house. He's only a young teen but I trained him well. However I made the error of actually talking to the pigs with my mother. Lets just say I destroyed what little clones while they kept pounding on the door.

 

Thats too bad to hear the same thing happened to you too.

[bobandtorey]

when you get raided you will never be the same thats for sure

[JohnB RPh]

when you get raided you will never be the same thats for sure

 

QFmfT

[naturescaregivers]

I plan on just opening a window next to my door and talk that way its a little over 1 foot wide by 3 foot tall nowhere near big enough to squeeze through if they force the issue .

 

Do you participate in compassion clubs or are you vocal around your area about legal cannabis?

 

If what you say is true about LEO being able to access our records it would be very damning to all of our safety's as patients and caregivers .

 

I don't know if LEO can access our records or not but I just can't figure out how they know I grow. I keep my grow completely secret. No one knows about it but my family. I've been to a compassion club only 2 times. I spend the majority of my time studying in grad school. I live in a well kept house, don't sell to anyone and run a completely legit operation. I just can't figure out how they even know I grow. Now I'm paranoid as hell.

 

I read on these boards awhile back that someone else had the same suspicion. Alot of legit medical growers are scared to register for their card because it puts them on the radar.

 

The cops also told me that I was on a list of suspected drug criminals.

 

I'm sure it wouldn't be hard for LEO to access data informing them who the medical growers are their county. I mean they break the law all the time. They call electric companies asking for private information about energy usage and bully the operator into giving up this data. I'm sure they could do it with the poorly run program here in MI.

[Scooter]

November 3, 2008, my life changed forever. LEO violated my rights, and forced me into a position of activism. That's the only thing positive about it. I will never, ever trust LEO. In all of my encounters I have never been "helped", "protected" or "served" in a positive manner. Not once. If you trust them in ANY situation, the odds are you will be sorry you did. Remember, they have an opinion, and it will be what they follow. Regardless of the law. Bob and Tory bear scars as deep as mine, and I consider anyone who has dealt with this type of situation as a brother-in-arms ( or sister! ). Stay Safe, don't talk to LEO, and don't believe a word they say. Don't talk; it can only make things worse for you. They'll tell you otherwise, but it's a lie. Every time.

[CannabisPatient#1]

I am a "brother in Arms" too. Their "drug" dog sat down next to my dryer vent (before I was a med patient) and it was all over. How they found out about my grow still makes me wonder. Electric bill is first on my list of suspects (1400watts). I would not let them in. They treated me like I was a criminal and a idiot. They will always lie to you. Say that if you cooperate that they will let you off easy. Yeah right! Don't believe it. Then if you still don't cooperate they will threaten your freedom and livelihood. They also usually say that they are only looking for "hard drugs" (coke or heroin) and say that if they find a small amount of marijuana or paraphernalia that they won't press charges. Once again...Yeah right! They will say, "If you don't have anything to hide then let us do a quick walk through." Don't believe it. Once you open your door and let them in they will tear through your entire house. Everything will be dumped and scattered. They will leave behind a total disaster area. Their definition of a walk through is practically a cavity search. Learn about your rights and stand up to them! Fight for our right to autonomy.

[AznToker]

Maybe an LEO followed you back from the compassion club?

[Scooter]

I don't know if LEO can access our records or not but I just can't figure out how they know I grow. I keep my grow completely secret. No one knows about it but my family. I've been to a compassion club only 2 times. I spend the majority of my time studying in grad school. I live in a well kept house, don't sell to anyone and run a completely legit operation. I just can't figure out how they even know I grow. Now I'm paranoid as hell.

 

I read on these boards awhile back that someone else had the same suspicion. Alot of legit medical growers are scared to register for their card because it puts them on the radar.

 

The cops also told me that I was on a list of suspected drug criminals.

 

I'm sure it wouldn't be hard for LEO to access data informing them who the medical growers are their county. I mean they break the law all the time. They call electric companies asking for private information about energy usage and bully the operator into giving up this data. I'm sure they could do it with the poorly run program here in MI.

They don't bully them, they PAY electric company workers who report excessive electric usage. And only a fool would think they cannot access the MDCH database. I'll tell you one thing; if your a legal registered MM patient and/or caregiver, you are better off than being unregistered. Now that the law has passed, they are a LOT harder on illegal activity. They've lost a large revenue base, and have to make up for it somewhere. I ought to know, I spent thousands defending myself. One small operation ( see my post from 2008 ) and I was charged with FIVE felonies! I had it reduced to one count of misdemeanor possession, but it took a lot of money. That's what they want. I am now so high profile in regards to my legality that they don't dare to screw with me. My grow is outdoors and visible from 2 roads. Honestly, if your legal I would suggest that you let your local LEO know so as to avoid "misunderstandings". Then there is no excuse for them to ram your door at 3:00AM and terrorize you and your family.

[+420Atheist]

MDHC would have to comply with HIPPA. I would think if they released information without a warrant they would be open for a lawsuit.

[boroboro]

Well, remember, the government wrote HIPAA, so they left themselves plenty of back doors. For example, from http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/privacy/hipaa/understanding/summary/privacysummary.pdf:

 

Law Enforcement Purposes. Covered entities may disclose protected health

information to law enforcement officials for law enforcement purposes under

the following six circumstances, and subject to specified conditions: (1) as

required by law (including court orders, court-ordered warrants, subpoenas)

and administrative requests; (2) to identify or locate a suspect, fugitive,

material witness, or missing person; (3) in response to a law enforcement

official’s request for information about a victim or suspected victim of a

crime; (4) to alert law enforcement of a person’s death, if the covered entity

suspects that criminal activity caused the death; (5) when a covered entity

believes that protected health information is evidence of a crime that

occurred on its premises; and (6) by a covered health care provider in a

medical emergency not occurring on its premises, when necessary to inform

law enforcement about the commission and nature of a crime, the location of

the crime or crime victims, and the perpetrator of the crime.

 

I wish it were different, but I have doubts that HIPAA protects us from the police.