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The Nute/fert Convention Center


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nutrients and fertilizers are a HUGE factor in cultivation, and they are constantly changing. i hope we can use this thread to share our thoughts/theories/methods with each other in attempt to keep up with the manufacturers. the nutrient business is a multi-million dollar business, and very expensive/extensive research projects are happening everyday to make products better. (obviously those costs get passed on to us through the $200/gallon prices :D)

add the competition between the 5,000 or so different nutrient companies out there, and its enough to confuse the heck out of anyone. i couldn't imagine being a newbie today and walking into the hydro store for the first time looking for nutes. :unsure: :unsure: :unsure: :unsure:

 

i have my favorites, but i am a c.g. that will adapt to a patients desires and sometimes this means using nutes we aren't accustomed to. finding large amounts of information on many different kinds of nutes in one place is difficult, and if you find a good website, chances are it's out-of-date.

 

post it here!!

 

take a minute to share what you use. help a newbie..... help an old-timer..... maybe it will be you that needs to refer back to this page someday for the help.

 

soil or hydro?

what brands?

price?

how much?

how often?

organic?

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THE LUCAS METHOD

 

the "Lucas Method" is very simple, cheap, and it obviously works as is evident in the pics in this thread. we only need 2 kinds of nutes. General Hydroponic Flora Micro and General Hydroponic Flora Bloom.

 

med_gallery_13801_60_67233.jpg

 

here is the formula:

 

VEG: 5ml of Micro and 10ml of Bloom per gallon of water. (5-10) IF VEGGING UNDER CFL LIGHTS

VEG: 8ml of Micro and 16ml of Bloom per gallon of water. (8-16) IF VEGGING UNDER HID LAMPS

FLOWER: 8ml Micro and 16ml of bloom per gallon of water. (8-16)

 

 

there are a couple different methods on backfilling whatever the plants drink/what evaporates. i recommend backfilling with full strength nutes/water as needed to maintain the proper water level in the bucket/tote, and then doing two rez changes throughout the cycle. once at the switch to flower, and once after about 3-4 weeks of flower.

 

 

---and here is a "normal" schedule for a plant:

 

seedling/clone/veg 2-4 weeks. 8-16 nutes. 1/2 strength for first few days for seedlings. 5-10 nutes under flourescent lights

when it is time to flip the lights to 12/12 i dump everything and flush. flush=just plain ph'd water for 24-48 hours.

then they get new water after the flush and continue with 8-16 nutes

after a month i try to flush once again

then back to 8-16 nutes

 

 

after 6 weeks of flower, depending on the strain and how much longer it will need to finish, i have to make a decision. i "final flush" for a week minimum so if i am growing a 7-8 week strain i will go into final flush now. if it is a 8-12 week strain i will go back to 8-16 nutes for as long as needed and then into final flush for the last week or so.

 

 

also, another couple freebie tips. when adding the nutes, add the micro to the water first, and then the bloom. NEVER mix the 2 nutes together and then add the combination to water. this WILL promote lock-out.

 

after adding both nutes (separately of course) STIR/SHAKE WELL!! can't say it enough. make sure you have it all mixed up real good. don't rely on your bubbles to do the mixing for you.

 

the flora micro will stain carpet/clothes if not tended to right away ;)

 

assuming you are starting with r.o. water (ph7) the nutes will drop the ph to a perfect 5.5-6.0. i RARELY have to add ph down to maintain proper levels. at any rate, do whatever needs to be done to maintain a 5.5-6.0ph level. and i keep my water temps at 68-70 degrees.

 

also, for 99 cents ANYWHERE in the kitchen department. (target-walmart) this is my best friend. the turkey baster. perfect for measuring nutes out.

 

7900P35.jpg

 

 

here are another couple ways to work with this formula:

 

1. Top off the reservoir daily using a pH corrected water solution as required to maintain full reservoir level. After adding back an amount of water equal to the amount of your reservoir capacity you should change the reservoir and put in fresh solution.

 

2. Top off the reservoir daily using a pH corrected 100% strength nutrient solution as required to maintain full reservoir level. Continue to use this nutrient solution without dumping the tank unless the PPM rises above acceptable levels.

 

Between vegetative and flowering cycles you should dump your nutrients, then flush (possibly with Clearex) to remove salt buildups, then change to the other feeding program. Always shake your GH nutrient bottles before using them!

 

For young plants, just transplanted into the hydro setup, give them 50% strength nutrient mix to prevent overfeeding them while their young. Gradually bring up the mix to full strength as they grow over the next few weeks or so.

 

The lucas formula is normally intended for use with RO or near 0 PPM water.

 

NOTE: The Lucas formula eliminates the need for Epsom salts to correct (Magnesium) Mg deficiencies in most normal feeding programs recommended by manufacturers. Cannabis needs a lot of Magnesium to thrive.

 

The Flora Micro is providing the Nitrogen and the Magnesium in the proper balance, thus there is no need for the Grow formula and little or no room under the maximum acceptable ppm limit of 1600 @ 0.7 conversion.

 

Calculated EC/TDS levels:

 

EC microsiemen:

0-4-8: 946 µS

0-5-10: 1184 µS

0-8-16: 1894 µS

 

TDS @ 0.5 conversion:

0-4-8 = 473 ppm

0-5-10 = 592 ppm

0-8-16 = 947 ppm

 

TDS @ 0.7 conversion:

0-4-8 = 663 ppm

0-5-10 = 829 ppm

0-8-16 = 1326 ppm

 

Addback Calculator - (For Advanced Users)

 

Say you were running the 0-8-16 formula, at 0.7 conversion with a 22 gallon res. When you first fill it up, your ppm will be around 1330.

 

Now you have been growing for a week, and some of the water has been taken up by the plants, some has evaporated, and now your res is at 947 ppm. You need to get your ppm from 947 to 1330. Here is the equation:

 

((target - current) / target) * 8 ml per gallon * res gallons = Flora Micro (ml) double this figure to get Flora Bloom (ml)

 

Example:

 

((1330 - 947) / 1330) * 8 * 22

(383 / 1330) * 8 * 22

0.3 * 8 * 22 = 53 ml Flora Micro

 

53 ml Flora Micro, double that and you get 106 ml Flora Bloom. So 53 ml Flora Micro and 106 ml Flora Bloom to add back to your 22 gallon res to get you from 947 to 1330.

 

 

One tip - do not pH down this stuff, the hard water micro will drop pH gradually over the next 24 hours, for example I mix up a batch, it is at like 6.2, the next day, its at 5.6-5.8 after running in the system for a while. If I pH downed that to 5.7 before putting it in the system, it ended up as low as 4.8-5.2 by the next day.

 

______________________

 

** major props and many thanks to Lucas. i have spent countless hours reading his charts and study logs. the man is brilliant.

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I'm using Organic Sunshine Mix as a base, then adding extra perlite, worm castings, various guanos, kelp and dolomitic lime. My worm bin is rocking and they are producing nice fresh worm castings. Soon I'll be harvesting the castings and moving the worms into a larger bin. I hope they will be far superior to store-bought WC. I feed my plants with teas made of the same fertilizers plus molasses.

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that was my next question...do you HAVE to buy nutes? can you make/harvest your own?

 

for example, i had bought fertilizers for years until i was told by a friend who does organic gardening how to mix ammonia, liquid dishsoap, and tobacco juice (soaking the tobacco in water for a couple days beforehand) in equal parts and now thats all i use on my lawn. Feel bad for all the harsh chemical runoff i contributed to for years. I know that the nutes you guys use are probably mostly organic, but its a pretty big variable in the cost of hydro and i would rather make my own anyways if possible...

 

worms are good. short of finding a bat cave what else can i do. cheap.

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that was my next question...do you HAVE to buy nutes? can you make/harvest your own?

 

for example, i had bought fertilizers for years until i was told by a friend who does organic gardening how to mix ammonia, liquid dishsoap, and tobacco juice (soaking the tobacco in water for a couple days beforehand) in equal parts and now thats all i use on my lawn. Feel bad for all the harsh chemical runoff i contributed to for years. I know that the nutes you guys use are probably mostly organic, but its a pretty big variable in the cost of hydro and i would rather make my own anyways if possible...

 

worms are good. short of finding a bat cave what else can i do. cheap.

 

That sounds like a mild pesticide not nutes! :o You can grow your own tobacco to make it, by the way. Seeds are like ten bucks with shipping from bouncingbearbotanicals.com

 

I would definitely recommend making a worm bin. I did it for free with two five gallon jugs and a drill. The worms came from my friends backyard. He throws all his compost in a leaf pile and there are hundreds of worms all throughout the pile.

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compost pile i have. worms too.

 

What I meant to say is throws all his scraps into a leaf pile and makes compost. If you have worms in your pile you can make a bin and harvest your own worm castings in a few months. Worm castings tea with molasses makes plants vigorous. I think they get more resistant to pests and disease too.

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My next setup of nutrients is going to consist of....

Humboldt Organic line

a.)Grow Natural

b.)Bloom Natural

c.)Duece Duece

d.)Hum-Bolt

e.)Flavorful

f.)Mayan Microzyme

g.)Prozyme

h.)Myco Madness

i.)Myco Max

j.)Humboldt roots

l.)Homboldt Honey ES

 

:lol: Umm last setup used was...

 

Humboldt Master Line

a.)Master A

b.)Master B

c.)verde

d.)Big up

e.)Sea-Mag

f.)Sea-Cal

g.)hum-Bolt

h.)Flavorful

i.)Prozyme

j.)Myco Madness

k.)humboldt roots

l.)Humboldt honey es

 

^I had amazing success with that line, I know it looks like overkill, probably is. But my quality and yield was way greater using all that stuff then anything else i've used.

 

Other setups

Fox Farms

Grow big

Tiger Bloom

big bloom

all 3 solubles

 

^Disappointed by this, they make such great soils, but nutrient wise everything I've used has toppled them in results.

 

Technaflora

BC Grow

BC Bloom

BC Boost

Magical

Sugar Daddy

Superthrive (recommended w/ this line)

awesome blossoms

 

I was very happy with BC for being a 3part base, most 3 parts I've come to learn aren't the greatest, more of a way to guide beginners and not cause confusion.

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WHAT'S THE MIXING RATIO ON THAT W.CASTING TEA AND THE MOLASSES IF YOU DON'T MIND SHARING THAT INFO MEZZ ?

 

For five gallons of tea I add about three or four cups of worm castings, a cup or two of kelp and about five tablespoons of molasses. High nitrogen seabird or bat guano is added by the tablespoonful during veg and low nitrogen guano is added in flower. I think it is important to feed plants based on what they tell us and vary the mix accordingly. I even eyeball it. :blink:

 

Forgot to add that the tea is aerated with an aquarium pump.

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I use Botanicare Pure Blend Pro series and have nothing but good things to say about it,plus its organic.

 

That looks like a good product.

derived from seabird guano, bat guano, earthworm castings, fish meal, sea kelp (ascophyllum nodosum), humic acid, and silica clay extract.

 

Pretty close to the recipe I use. You could make a molasses tea with it and probably make it even more effective.

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Our first time around we used Pro Mix BX which is a soiless mix then added extra amounts of perlite, vermiculite and lime(ph balancer). The nutes available can become very overwhelming so we just went with the Fox Farm line without the solubles.

 

We made a lot of mistakes along the way, like not being on the feeding schedule really good, but overall we were very fortunate to have a great first harvest. We ran 5 plants all the way through. Two White Widows, two Free Leonards and one Lemon Cake. The canopy stayed relatively even though the LC stretched a bit at the end. Each plant was approx. two feet tall and netted 3-4 zips each dry. Total of one big one dry for all five :) and not one seed. :D

 

All these started as cuttings taken from my last CG. From cuttings with no roots to harvest was under 100 days.

 

This time we are still using the FF products but have been much better with the schedule and also started using the solubles. I see the diference aleady.

 

I find the hardest part of this whole thing is getting perpetual......

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Our first time around we used Pro Mix BX which is a soiless mix then added extra amounts of perlite, vermiculite and lime(ph balancer). The nutes available can become very overwhelming so we just went with the Fox Farm line without the solubles.

 

We made a lot of mistakes along the way, like not being on the feeding schedule really good, but overall we were very fortunate to have a great first harvest. We ran 5 plants all the way through. Two White Widows, two Free Leonards and one Lemon Cake. The canopy stayed relatively even though the LC stretched a bit at the end. Each plant was approx. two feet tall and netted 3-4 zips each dry. Total of one big one dry for all five :) and not one seed. :D

 

This time we are still using the FF products but have been much better with the schedule and also started using the solubles. I see the diference aleady.

 

I find the hardest part of this whole thing is getting perpetual......

 

How long did you veg those, RLP? Clones or seeds?

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How long did you veg those, RLP? Clones or seeds?

 

I just edited to add some details. They were cuttings originally. Most finished at just over 90 days from a cutting to harvest. The LC went almost a 100 days. Vegged 'em all for about a week under a 400 mh then they went under a 1000 watts to veg and exploded, lol.

 

I'm not going to sit down and do the math but flowering was about 7-8 weeks. The cuts took 7-10 days to root, so the rest would be veg. :)

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