Are They Legally Able To Charge Me?

[+420Atheist]

Isn't this essentially the same statement Nemosity got negative rep for?

 

Seems pretty close. I'm OK with negative reps. It usually means the person giving it to you can't think of a valid counterpoint to your argument.

 

 

Sec. 8. (a) Except as provided in section 7, a patient and a patient's primary caregiver, if any, may assert the medical purpose for using marihuana as a defense to any prosecution involving marihuana, and this defense shall be presumed valid where the evidence shows that:

 

(1) A physician has stated that, in the physician's professional opinion, after having completed a full assessment of the patient's medical history and current medical condition made in the course of a bona fide physician-patient relationship, the patient is likely to receive therapeutic or palliative benefit from the medical use of marihuana to treat or alleviate the patient's serious or debilitating medical condition or symptoms of the patient's serious or debilitating medical condition;

 

This seems pretty clear to me. "as a defense to ANY prosecution involving marihuana" If you can get a doctor to examine you and recommend MMJ to you before you go to court with a good lawyer you should win.

 

Now Ionic7 does have a valid point about not allowing yourself to be in this position. I can't imagine why a person would not get their card before getting in trouble. I know it cost some money but it is cheap insurance compared to an arrest.

[Ionic7]

Deleted for my own arrogance.

 

My sincere apologies i misread and over reacted.

[jon165]

Or you don't have enough money to spend to get a card and buy your medicine at the same time.

[Ionic7]

Deleted for my own arrogance.

 

My sincere apologies i misread and over reacted.

[phaquetoo]

 

You got it wrong wrong wrong.

 

The judge broke the law by giving this person a conviction on their record and the probation. The spirit if not the letter.

 

Once the judge knows the defendant has a letter from the doctor, it should be all over. As long as it was a reasonable amount.

 

And the date on the letter doesn't matter!! Several cases have been dismissed that way in MI.

 

 

it is called the a.d

if you are a qualifiying patient, it dont matter when your paper work is dated, I qualified in may of 98! so what does it matter when my paper work was signed, and what good does the paper work do when leo dont accept it!

Phaq it lay low and dont get caught with your pants down. like I did, it is not fun fighting court cases whether you win or lose!

Free The Weed!

Jim

[bobandtorey]

it is called the a.d

if you are a qualifiying patient, it dont matter when your paper work is dated, I qualified in may of 98! so what does it matter when my paper work was signed, and what good does the paper work do when leo dont accept it!

Phaq it lay low and dont get caught with your pants down. like I did, it is not fun fighting court cases whether you win or lose!

Free The Weed!

Jim

 

i could have not said it better Peace from the front

 

 

the AD is solid

[lawyercaregiver]

There are a few misconceptions about the MMM law.

 

First, this is an affirmative defense, NOT decriminalization. Sure to a lay person they are the same but... this is wrong.

 

An affirmative defense is asserted in (wait for it) COURT- before a judge.

 

Imagine the po po comes upon you, smoking gun in hand and a dead body laying on the ground.

 

You say, well screw you piggy piggy, I have a DEFENSE to this charge. You see he was attacking me with a deadly weapon and I had to defend myself. So go climb in your oinkster-mobile and leave us law abidin citizens alone.

 

This is precisely the case with marijuana possession under the MMA.

 

So are they legally able to charge you? Yep, definitely! Will a judge dismiss it when you get to court if you have your paperwork? Yep, definitely!

 

Second, this 20 day thingy is all FUBAR. We do not know if the courts will agree with what the issuing agency for the State claims though there is every reason to believe they will. That is, we don't know if the paperwork is actually 'deemed accepted' just because the State says so. The LAW says nothing about deemed accepted.

 

You must have your CARD at the time of your bust for possession, use, or cultivation in order to assert the defense. Getting it later is not a sure thing as has been claimed here.

 

I would definitely go with the court appointed lawyer here- just make sure a motion to Dismiss is filed with all the attachments ASAP.

[peanutbutter]

So are they legally able to charge you? Yep, definitely! Will a judge dismiss it when you get to court if you have your paperwork? Yep, definitely!

It's going to be a while before every judge gets the new law right. Will a judge get the law right every time? Are you kidding?? That's what a court of appeals is all about. Judges do indeed get it wrong.

 

Second, this 20 day thingy is all FUBAR. We do not know if the courts will agree with what the issuing agency for the State claims though there is every reason to believe they will. That is, we don't know if the paperwork is actually 'deemed accepted' just because the State says so. The LAW says nothing about deemed accepted.

I just got done really embarrassing myself by saying a card isn't required to be good for only one year. Now I have egg on my face. It was indeed in the law. I don't know if I'll be able to recover from that little oops. I'm not even a lawyer. So, I guess, this statement from someone claiming to be a lawyer makes me feel better.

 

Sir .. you are in error.

 

333.26429 Failure of department to adopt rules or issue valid registry identification card.

 

9. Enforcement of this Act.

 

Sec. 9. (a) If the department fails to adopt rules to implement this act within 120 days of the effective date of this act, a qualifying patient may commence an action in the circuit court for the county of Ingham to compel the department to perform the actions mandated pursuant to the provisions of this act.

 

( B ) If the department fails to issue a valid registry identification card in response to a valid application or renewal submitted pursuant to this act within 20 days of its submission, the registry identification card shall be deemed granted, and a copy of the registry identification application or renewal shall be deemed a valid registry identification card.

 

You must have your CARD at the time of your bust for possession, use, or cultivation in order to assert the defense. Getting it later is not a sure thing as has been claimed here.

There is a distinct list of things needed to be shown to a judge for the AD to apply. None of those three things are an ID card. If all three fit, the case must be dismissed. Must .. This "retro activity" thing will be in front of the MI supreme court in the next few days, BTW.

 

I would definitely go with the court appointed lawyer here- just make sure a motion to Dismiss is filed with all the attachments ASAP.

Be careful with that .. this is a specialist situation. There's a lot of people out there that don't understand this law yet. Those include police officers, PA's, judges and lawyers.

[+420Atheist]

LEO is not supposed to arrest you if you have documentation.

 

(g) A person shall not be subject to arrest, prosecution, or penalty in any manner, or denied any right or privilege, including but not limited to civil penalty or disciplinary action by a business or occupational or professional licensing board or bureau, for providing a registered qualifying patient or a registered primary caregiver with marihuana paraphernalia for purposes of a qualifying patient's medical use of marihuana.

 

So I would think if you were arrested after presenting your documentation you would have a basis for a false arrest lawsuit.

 

Now everyone should print multiple copies of the law and keep one in your car and grow room so you can show the officer that any arrest will be in violation of the law.

 

I have noticed a lot of people saying that with paperwork you get arrested and dismissed in court. You should not even be arrested as the law is clear that paperwork is accepted the same as a card after 20 days.

 

(B.) If the department fails to issue a valid registry identification card in response to a valid application or renewal submitted pursuant to this act within 20 days of its submission, the registry identification card shall be deemed granted, and a copy of the registry identification application or renewal shall be deemed a valid registry identification card.

 

Again make several copies and keep in car and grow room.

 

It seems to me that a lot of the accounts of arrest I am reading here could easily be avoided.

1. Know the law.

2. Always have your card or a copy of your paperwork.

3. Have a copy of the law for the LEO to read for himself.

4. Don't have more than 12 plants for each patients paperwork.

5. Don't have more than 2.5 oz per patient you have paperwork for.

 

Has anyone been arrested who followed this model? Is there anything I am missing?

[peanutbutter]

He was not a lawful patient he only got his cert once he got popped, that is abusing the system.

 

He was the kind of person the voters said "yes" to.

[peanutbutter]

Actually they can arrest you and bring charges against you. LEO does this all the time with people over many, many crimes, not just MMJ. It's standard practice for LEO to arrest someone that they think might be breaking the law. In fact, that's their job.

 

Not according to the voters of Michigan.

 

Having the ID card exempts you from being arrested.

 

If you are exempt from arrest and they do it anyway, they have broken the law.

[phaquetoo]

Actually they can arrest you and bring charges against you. LEO does this all the time with people over many, many crimes, not just MMJ. It's standard practice for LEO to arrest someone that they think might be breaking the law. In fact, that's their job. Fortunately for us, LEO does not have the final say and we have the right to go to court. The big "NO" would be a good answer to whether or not he can be CONVICTED in court. Arrest and conviction are two entirely different things.

 

If this person did not have his paperwork already sent in to the MDCH at the time of his arrest he's walking a path that I wouldn't wish on anyone right now, because there are judges throughout the state that are ruling the AD does not cover such people. We even had a local judge rule the AD doesn't apply to anyone without a card, and with his interpretation of the law, he may be right. We still need a test case going to an appeals court before a final decision can be made on this one, and I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

 

The problem lies with the first line of the AD: "Sec. 8. (a) Except as provided in section 7, a patient and a patient's primary caregiver, if any, may assert the medical purpose for using marihuana as a defense to any prosecution involving marihuana, and this defense shall be presumed valid where the evidence shows that..."

 

"Except as provided by in section 7" is the problem, because section 7 says: "The medical use of marihuana is allowed under state law to the extent that it is carried out in accordance with the provisions of this act."

 

That may legally mean that section 8, the AD, is superseded by section 7, the rules. Section 7 states the provisions of the act must be followed or the action is illegal and the provisions of the act state that a patient must carry an ID card in section 4: "A qualifying patient who has been issued and possesses a registry identification card shall not be subject to arrest, prosecution, or penalty in any manner, or denied any right or privilege..."

 

I'm not saying I agree with this take on the law, because I most definitely do not!!!!! However, it is an intrepretation that several judges in Michigan have already made, and I wanted everyone to be informed of what they were doing. Judge Ninomiya in Dickinson County was one of the judges making this ruling.

 

 

Bottom line, don't go out in public with medicine and without your card! Only the actual card can prevent you from getting arrested!

 

 

I agree Brother! I have been thru 2 cases, arrested both times, dropped both times, one was and a.d,possesion 2nd offense felony, the other was a prob violation got thru it, I feel better with my card, but still dont feel safe! in fact i feel like im in a fish bowl now!

[Ionic7]

Deleted for my own arrogance.

 

My sincere apologies i misread and over reacted.

[chi_guy]

To make a long story short, I was searched by a police officer after an altercation my friend was in at a bar, I had less then a gram of medication on me, and my paper work was in my truck, and I wasnt aloud to prove it due to the police officers disgretion, I have been to court and filled a motion due to the fact that they are trying to charge me with posetion, I cannot aford a lawyer and am most likely going to get a court appointed attorney, are they legally aloud to charge me with a crime??

Do not plead to anything. This case should be dismissed and you should demand they return your meds. If it had been 20 days from when your application was sent in then they shouldn't have arrested you in the first place. The cop should have taken the time to check your paperwork. The fact that you have a doctor's rec should easily satisfy the affirmative defense. You may need to supeona the doc to testify on your behalf.

[peanutbutter]

Hell he said right in the first post he did not even have his cert.

 

Exactly right ..

 

And that kind of person is intended to be protected by this law. That being the person with a medical condition that they just might receive benefit by consuming marijuana.

 

In the law .. if you can find a doctor to agree with you, then you should be exempt from conviction.

 

To bad you don't like it. But the voters were asked directly if unregistered patients should be able to consume marijuana for medical purposes.

 

And they (the voters) said yes to that question on the ballot.

[peanutbutter]

LEO is using the excuse that they have no way to see if your paperwork is valid without your ID card. As such, they consider anyone without an official card form the MDCH to be breaking the law because they cannot tell when they encounter a person in possession of MMJ.

 

Are you suggesting that ignoring my rights is proper police procedure?

 

Yep .. sometimes they do whatever they wish. Just because that is what they are doing doesn't make it legal.

 

They are breaking the law handed to them by the people.

[JohnB RPh]

Are you suggesting that ignoring my rights is proper police procedure?Yep .. sometimes they do whatever they wish. Just because that is what they are doing doesn't make it legal.They are breaking the law handed to them by the people.

 

Your own answer of your queston says it all, in my opinion. They DO do whatever they wish.

 

From what I'm reading here, and have read from other cases on here, it is painfully obvious to me the law you mention is being interpreted differently by authorities and many court systems. Or more importantly for us, being ignored by the authorities and court systems. And how are these bodies going to be punished in any normal sense of the word for "breaking the law handed to them by the people"? They aren't. The worst that would happen in their eyes is a case or conviction here and there may be dismissed or thrown out. That is cold comfort for those who can ill afford to defend themselves after the fact and are forced to suffer the emotional and financial devestation brought on by an arrest, technically legal or not.

 

As much as I admire your passion and information, I fear you may lead people to view potential dangers through rose colored glasses.

[onestep]

 

You got it wrong wrong wrong.

 

The judge broke the law by giving this person a conviction on their record and the probation. The spirit if not the letter.

 

Once the judge knows the defendant has a letter from the doctor, it should be all over. As long as it was a reasonable amount.

 

And the date on the letter doesn't matter!! Several cases have been dismissed that way in MI.

 

The same thing happened with my husband, who is now a patient, and caregiver to myself and another gentleman. We gave them copies of our certifications from the doctors, showed them our cards, and still denied him. He has to turn over his cards and cannot be caregiver to me or the other gentleman. I cannot medicate because he lives in the same house as me, and said it will be a violation when he starts his probation. This all just went down with the sentencing on Friday. So much for the Affirmative Defense, we have none. The probation officer told us that in Shiawassee County they had a special meeting with the Department of Corrections, and that they are not going to recognize medical marihuana in our county.

[peanutbutter]

The same thing happened with my husband, who is now a patient, and caregiver to myself and another gentleman. We gave them copies of our certifications from the doctors, showed them our cards, and still denied him. He has to turn over his cards and cannot be caregiver to me or the other gentleman. I cannot medicate because he lives in the same house as me, and said it will be a violation when he starts his probation. This all just went down with the sentencing on Friday. So much for the Affirmative Defense, we have none. The probation officer told us that in Shiawassee County they had a special meeting with the Department of Corrections, and that they are not going to recognize medical marihuana in our county.

 

Sometimes I wish people would ask "what will they do to me?" instead of asking "it that legal?"

 

A lot of times those are two different lists.

 

I'm guessing that someone plead guilty to something. It's cheaper and easier than going all the way through. Compromise gets you things like you listed.

[Ionic7]

Deleted for my own arrogance.

 

My sincere apologies i misread and over reacted.

[peanutbutter]

.

[Ionic7]

Deleted for my own arrogance.

 

My sincere apologies i misread and over reacted.

[+Annnie]

The probation officer told us that in Shiawassee County they had a special meeting with the Department of Corrections, and that they are not going to recognize medical marihuana in our county.

Wtf?? do they mean the probation dept? Or in general if you are a mm patient in shaiwassee county they are going to arrest you?

[Ionic7]

The probation officer told us that in Shiawassee County they had a special meeting with the Department of Corrections, and that they are not going to recognize medical marihuana in our county.

Wtf?? do they mean the probation dept? Or in general if you are a mm patient in shaiwassee county they are going to arrest you?

 

 

State law should over rule county ordnance but im not an attorney so i have no idea.

[peanutbutter]

State law should over rule county ordnance but im not an attorney so i have no idea.

 

Sometimes it takes a lot of money to be right.

 

Yes .. state law rules.