Breeding, Making Seeds

[vender]

How long after pollinating a plant should I see seeds? When should I harvest for seeds?

Thanks

[dlovas]

How long after pollinating a plant should I see seeds? When should I harvest for seeds?

Thanks

I wouold try the Cannabis Breeders Bible. Or grab the breeding High Times edition. The female should go in to flower 2 weeks prior so she has ripe bud sites and fully developed then spray her with pollen. You should start to see seed pods after a few weeks for sure. Was your breed accidental or hermie pollen..?

[vender]

No it was on purpose. Pollen was from a male, no hermies. I read it was not a good idea to use hermies. The plants I am crossing are F1 so what would the seeds be? It is going to be a new strain, so would it be F1 seeds?

[tricloud]

No it was on purpose. Pollen was from a male, no hermies. I read it was not a good idea to use hermies. The plants I am crossing are F1 so what would the seeds be? It is going to be a new strain, so would it be F1 seeds?

 

F1 x with a different F1 = a poly-hybrid

 

F1 x F1 of the same line = F2

 

Poly-hybrids are basically super mutts. Not saying they can't produce good plants, it's just that your line or cross won't be stable meaning it won't produce consistent offspring.

[vender]

F1 x with a different F1 = a poly-hybrid

 

F1 x F1 of the same line = F2

 

Poly-hybrids are basically super mutts. Not saying they can't produce good plants, it's just that your line or cross won't be stable meaning it won't produce consistent offspring.

 

So how do you cross strains?

[HC]

A male of one strain and a female from another strain and you have you cross. Most time when you see C x Y the C is the female crossed with the male Y. That is how I was taught so others knew which is which.

[vender]

So is a poly-hybrid bad? how do you make a stable strain then?

[Nemosity]

If you really want to get into breeding, and what to have something stable, pick up the cannabis breeders bible. Lot's and lot's of great information and knowledge on each and every page. It can be a bit technical, but if you really want to do it, it's one of the best knowledge bases for cannabis breeding. I could delve into the realm of breeding here but there is so much to it, I'd be typing on here for hours. May your seeds be plentiful and bring you great medicine!

[chi_guy]

you grow those out then choose the best male and female and breed them. You do that for more generations until you stabilize the line.

[vender]

you grow those out then choose the best male and female and breed them. You do that for more generations until you stabilize the line.

 

Thank You. +rep

[HC]

Some Clone only strains are poly's so yes you can find great plants through testing.

 

To stablize a strain I believe takes 7 breedings with back crossing with the new seeds and original parent plants. You have to keep both the male and female to do this. I don't have the book handy to tell you in which order but there a breeding books out there.

 

Trainwreck was made with 4 strains and using something like that will not become a stable strain due to the fact of some many traits that pop out.

 

 

It is fun breeding and finding that "ONE" clone only plant. But you have to save a clone of each you do until the cure and testing for tolerance build up checked.

 

Some simple breeding is done on just a few bud sites with a paint brushing the pollen on just those sites. Just a few seeds to test instead of using up the whole plant making thousands of beans and find it taste like s*&t and scrap the hole bunch of beans you just made.

 

Have fun Mon

 

 

[vender]

Indica Thanks for the site, some good reading. +rep. I just got some seeds from my first cross. Also are F2 seeds any worse / better?

[tricloud]

you grow those out then choose the best male and female and breed them. You do that for more generations until you stabilize the line.

 

Exactly

[tricloud]

Some Clone only strains are poly's so yes you can find great plants through testing.

 

To stabilize a strain I believe takes 7 breedings with back crossing with the new seeds and original parent plants. You have to keep both the male and female to do this. I don't have the book handy to tell you in which order but there a breeding books out there.

 

Trainwreck was made with 4 strains and using something like that will not become a stable strain due to the fact of some many traits that pop out.

 

 

It is fun breeding and finding that "ONE" clone only plant. But you have to save a clone of each you do until the cure and testing for tolerance build up checked.

 

Some simple breeding is done on just a few bud sites with a paint brushing the pollen on just those sites. Just a few seeds to test instead of using up the whole plant making thousands of beans and find it taste like s*&t and scrap the hole bunch of beans you just made.

 

Have fun Mon

 

 

 

You could make a stable line from 4 strains but it would take a little time.

 

You would have to stabilize each line if not already stable. If you start with 4 stable lines it would be much easier but that's not so easy to do, especially now days.

 

Anyway you would inbreed all lines until they are stable by making consecutive selective inbreedings.

 

Then take strain 1 and cross it to strain 2 and stabilize, stabilize the offspring by making consecutive selective inbreedings.

 

Then cross strain 3 to strain 4 and stabilize the offspring by making consecutive selective inbreedings.

 

Then cross the stabilized offspring from cross 1 and 2 and cross it to stabilized offspring from 3 and 4 and stabilize the offspring by making consecutive selective inbreedings.

 

Kind of confusing but it's basically about taking your time when you want to make something stable. It's not something that most breeders do and if they go through this kind of trouble to make a stable line they will NOT release it. Instead they would use it to make other stable crosses to protect their hard work.

 

When you make an F1 cross with 2 separate stable lines you often get what is called hybrid vigor. Most siblings will be quite similar. When you take those F1's down to F2's then you will see the genetics unravel. The plants will not be so similar. F2's are cool if you are breeding because you can sometimes find the type of parent plants you are looking for. When you inbreed F2 parents with similar traits it kinda starts to lock in those traits. The potency usually starts to decrease by generation F4 so most breeders don't take their lines much past that unless for breeding purposes.

 

Most breeders sell F1's and feminized beans to protect their work. Some breeders like Sagarmatha sell some F4's because they aren't good for inbreeding, they took them to the limit but might make good lines for crossing.

 

There is a lot more to it than that but that's about the simplest way I can explain the basics. Sorry if it's still confusing.

[THC-Farmer]

Yea. There's a little more to it. Tis a good jist of it though...

 

I always recommend to anyone who's interested in trying or getting serious about breeding to think about some type of Botany class and doing some researching into annual angiosperm genetics... Just to get an idea of the basics.

 

It helps to apply more educated genetic strategies.

 

But once you get that basic understanding of flowering plants and thier genetics it's pretty simple.

 

However, there's always one thing breeders of all kinds agree on; Proper sexing is a time consuming process.

[dlovas]

Yea. There's a little more to it. Tis a good jist of it though...

 

I always recommend to anyone who's interested in trying or getting serious about breeding to think about some type of Botany class and doing some researching into annual angiosperm genetics... Just to get an idea of the basics.

 

It helps to apply more educated genetic strategies.

 

But once you get that basic understanding of flowering plants and thier genetics it's pretty simple.

 

However, there's always one thing breeders of all kinds agree on; Proper sexing is a time consuming process.

Buy the Cannabis Breeders Bible it goes over just about everything one needs to know. I think it is by Greg Green.

[+greenhouse]

Here's another good book Marijuana Botany, 1981, Bob Clarke. Haven't read the whole thing yet, but I highly recommend it.

http://books.google.com/books?id=_aK7dTNS1qkC&pg=PA64&dq=cannabis+genetics&hl=en&ei=lOpfTIv5O4L48Aa84LSVBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CC8Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=cannabis%20genetics&f=false

[continuobrisa]

Great information - both in questions and answers! I will certainly search this thread in the future if I should take action down this road. Thanks!

[tricloud]

Here's another good book Marijuana Botany, 1981, Bob Clarke. Haven't read the whole thing yet, but I highly recommend it.

http://books.google....enetics&f=false

 

Yes, that is a good read. Have read it a dozen times myself.

[tricloud]

You need to use multiple males so you don't bottleneck. The easy way to stabilize the traits, and let me emphasize the traits. Is to pick your prize mother. Select multiple sibling males of traits that are in your goal for THE PERFECT PLANT. Let the pollen fly on the mother(closet love shack.....whatever LOL). Then take that seed grow it out and select multiple males again.....healthy with desired traits. Pollenate a clone of the same original mother plant. Do this process until all offspring look like original mother plant. Bx3 is called a cube. Backcrossing it back into original mother plant or P1. The strain will not be stable, but the traits will be.

 

Oh yeah, mix a little flour with your pollen and it will go a long way. Good Times IJ

 

 

 

Also food for thought, here is a little reading. http://www.greenmans...des/botany.html

 

You can also use multiple females. The traits are much more pronounced then male plants. Males are a crap shoot and when you use more than one on the same female plant you can't really tell much about each male individually. Not all males will kick out quality offspring as visual inspection and selection etc. doesn't always mean a male will produce the desired traits.

 

If you use more than one male it's better to use each male individually on the same clone but on two separate plants. Label everything carefully and keep the seeds separated at all times.

 

After each male has been proven individually then it's not so bad using 2 males on the same female. Like you said research well before you move on to the next step.

 

"Bottlenecking" genetics actually stabilizes traits quicker than using more than 2 parent plants. Many of the "breeders" only use 2 parent plants to bottleneck and make a line appear stable while protecting their genetic line. A "bottlenecked" line isn't really a big deal to most growers, the beans will produce more similar plants. It's more important to people who want to buy genetics to make their own seeds to avoid "bottlenecked genetics".

[THC-Farmer]

That Robert Connell Clarke crap from greenmanspage.com is older than dirt! I don't recommend reading that. It's very confusing and many parts are not literate or detailed enough to get a clear understanding of the articles point.

[dlovas]

Yea. There's a little more to it. Tis a good jist of it though...

 

I always recommend to anyone who's interested in trying or getting serious about breeding to think about some type of Botany class and doing some researching into annual angiosperm genetics... Just to get an idea of the basics.

 

It helps to apply more educated genetic strategies.

 

But once you get that basic understanding of flowering plants and thier genetics it's pretty simple.

 

However, there's always one thing breeders of all kinds agree on; Proper sexing is a time consuming process.

THC I see you foamaing at the mouth all Day in the CHAT ROOM BIG DAWGIE but maybe you should get out on the road and make some connects....what you got that is CLONE ONLY..? You wanna talk about this and that about pitter n patter, ur just the mad hatter...haha...so go get me some somthin betta..! U got some 10 star strippers in your club...? lets see what's up..what do you know about MENTAL FLOSS buddy..? u talk about Genetics..well Chimera is on the same field as Shantibaba.

[THC-Farmer]

I never said I was a geneticist... Sheesh...

 

I really don't know a whole lot about breeding actually. I'm not a breeder. Though, I'd have to say that I probably know as much as the average breeder. I am, by no means, trying to be or implying that I am some magnificent breeder who knows all...

 

The only thing I talk about when it comes to genetics is traveling to pick up inbred strains from places some can only dream of going and some wouldn't dare go... That and how it's a good idea to know the breeder that you get your seeds from when you purchase genetics.

 

An inbreed is also called a Landrace. I have 3 of the worlds top Landrace strains that I will NEVER cross and NEVER get rid of because I obtained them myself... I'm somewhat of a Strain Hunter. I've traveled to Africa and Hawaii and trekked through some pretty rough areas just to get a hold of strains most people have never even heard of man. These are strains that you can't pick up at ANY seed bank or via any clone-only venue.

 

The problem I have, is that I like extremely exotic Sativas. Not no hybrid breeder protected bs that is "mostly Sativa" or back bred lock outs... I like the real deal. Strains that have been inbreeding for hundreds, if not thousands, of generations. Stuff like Malawi Gold and Swazi Red... My all time favorite is Hawaiian Kona. Those 3 strains are my absolute, all time, top shelf favorites... I have quite a lot of seeds of each breed...

 

Once you go exotic Sativa, you'll never go back!

 

PS - Chimera and Shanti are both very talented people. They are good at what they do. They've been doing it for a long, long time. Hats off to them all!

[THC-Farmer]

Screw that... If I ever go back to that God foresaken place, I'm getting me some Malawi Cob!

[tricloud]

Already have that one.

 

No surprise there lol. You have one hella collection IndicaJones.