Thinkin' About Hydro

[THC-Farmer]

You all can debate all you want.

 

I decided to stick with soil a while ago already...

 

Have fun!

 

[Grow Thread]

You all can debate all you want.

 

I decided to stick with soil a while ago already...

 

Have fun!

 

probably a good thing!!

[THC-Farmer]

Another thing I'd like to add that I think BG will agree with whole heartedly...

 

If you're going to grow in soil, go 110% organic or don't bother.

 

If you're unwilling or unable to conform to the 110% organic rule then you would more than likely be far better off doing a soil-less or a DWC system as it would probably be more efficient at that point. The whole idea behind growing in soil is the organics behind it and the numerous benefits creating a natural root zone entails. But other than that, DWC all the way baby!

[Grow Thread]

Another thing I'd like to add that I think BG will agree with whole heartedly...

 

If you're going to grow in soil, go 110% organic or don't bother.

 

You would be far better off doing a soil-less grow or a DWC system as it would probably be more efficient at that point. The whole idea behind growing in soil is the organics behind it and the numerous benefits creating a natural root zone entails. But other than that, DWC all the way baby!

 

+rep

[Grow Thread]

Agreed! But a major difference still remains; Those Hydroponic nutrient compounds are not organic by any means. The only concern I have with non-organic nutrients and compounds is the issue of them leaking into the environment. It's never a good idea to pour hydroponic waste water/spent nutrient solutions down the drain, in the toilet, or anywhere for that matter. So the question is, what do you do with your left over non-organic solutions?

-------- i water my houseplants with it, and the rest gets spread across mine and my neighbors lawn. dont frown, its no worse than what you buy in the store, and trust that we have some pretty green lawns

 

 

But see, that $30 tote is much more than a $30 tote when you factor in the nutrients you put into the water, the pumps required, the tubing and the water. You forgot to mention those factors. And they are important because they all add up. More competitive, sure. More efficient? Not really... I pay roughly $80 for all the soil I need to do twelve 5 gallon buckets, filled to the brim, and quite a few 1 gallon pots for vegetative growth. Fertilizer lasts 4 times longer in organic soil mixtures because the soil itsself as a medium also provides months of nutrients for the plants. So while you use up a bottle every 2 cycles, mine lasts for 4 cycles or more!

------- no $30 equals EVERYTHING I NEED TO GET STARTED FOR TWO PLANTS.... thats 30 bucks minus nutes and water.......... same as you.

 

 

Not to mention soil allows for beneficial bacteria and micro organisms that are impossible to support in a hydroponic system. This aspects of biology are very important to NATURAL plant growth. This is also what enhances the natural flavors and aromas of the plants... Something no hydro system can EVER achieve!

 

 

 

 

 

that pretty much solves the rest eh??

 

 

Yes, the DWC buckets definitely help out if you had to leave your garden unattended for an extended period of time. Very good point there! Possibly one of the best solutions for a situation where the patient isn't able to tend to thier garden everyday would be your basic DWC bucket system.

 

 

 

I disagree... I'm confident that certain soils are just as accurate as anything else. Manufactured organic soils, such as Fox Farms Ocean Forest and Fox Farms Happy Frog are extremely accurate mixtures. They are all mixed with precise amounts of the ingredients listed on the package. I have yet to have an inconsistent outcome. However, not ALL soil media are accurate. This is where a little research and understanding of the origins and process of your soil are extremely important.

 

 

 

This is not entirely true... This is where technique and knowledge become important. I don't flood my soil with water. I use a ZERO RUNOFF policy when watering my plants. My soil stays thoroughly moist all the way through, ALL THE TIME. There is no dry out period. It requires some very tedious watering but it pays off in the end. In the event that these conditions are met properly, as nature would provide, growth rates will be optimal.

 

The only TRUE way to increase growth rates beyond natural rates is to add abnormal amounts of C02 into the equation. In this event plants reserve the genetic ability to increase thier growth rates far beyond what natural levels of C02 would allow. This is the ONLY way to increase growth rates beyond thier natural tendancies under natural conditions.

 

 

 

Agreed... While I have never encountered any soil dwelling pests through my experience, it is most definitely a relavant concern! But proper treatment of your soil (don't store it outside, don't bring outside soil in, always store your soil in a cool, dark, sealed area) and a properly sealed and sanitary grow room should be enough to thwart off any intruders!

 

 

 

This is one topic I completely disagree on. I always will.

 

In an organic soil cultivation the soil is teeming with organic life such as mycorrhizae and all the rhizobacteria family. Hydroponic cultivation completely lacks this aspect of the plants growth. This is the most important benefactor when determining the plants flavor, aroma, and overall complete developement. See, these bacteria and microbes all provide nutrients and other added benefits to the plants root system that dramatically affects the plants vigor, nutrient uptake, and it's overall development.

 

Plants have adapted to utilize these bacteria, microbes, and thier byproducts very effectively. Hydroponics strips them of this evolutionary ability and the side affects of this are quite obvious...

 

This is the main reasons that only organic soil grown Cannabis is allowed for entry in the High Times Cannabis Cup.

 

 

 

I couldn't agree more!

[reddy]

these whole hydro vs. soil debates never seem to convince anybody but i will address this.

 

my hydro setup is super cheap and eco friendly, easy maintainance and clean, yields more than i can handle, does not runoff into the sewer system, and gives a great product. yes a hydro system can do this. coco is the answer.

 

organic growers seem to have a smug attitude that their product so is superior when it's not. a lot of misconceptions on this, i'll put my against yours anyday. maybe it's a strain specific thing, i've had bad tasting batches from new strains. i do prefer outdoor organic over anything, but indoors refined minerals are the way to go and can be flushed to perfection.

[uhphrayed]

Hydro is nice, you can leave them for weeks and not worry. Fill up your res and they take care of themselves. Kinda nice. Low maintenance. Takes a while to dial it in, but then its worry free. I will never go back to being a dirt farmer.

 

Getting a system dialed in enough to leave it for weeks takes quite a bit of time. When your new to hydro you will have to do daily maintenance. Plants drink the water so the water level is constantly changing, so you'll have to manually add water (top off) to your controller or buckets every day, or you'll need to setup a reservoir with a float valve which will automatically top off your controller for you.

 

Water level is the first issue, the next is pH which likes to change on a daily basis. We found that when using RO water the pH was extremely unstable, going from 5.8 to 6.3 within 12 hours - switching to tap helped stabilize it a bit. The water's ppm also changes daily but not quite as much as the pH.

[pic book]

Coco is neither dirt or hydroponics. It's a 100% sustainable recycled medium unlike Peat Moss, which the harvesting of is destroying wetlands across the continent. Not to mention all the Guano that folks are using are causing a lot of damage in the caves by the Human traffic, caves are very sensitive to intrusion of man. Dirt grown doesn't give you a better medicine. The grower's genetics, feeding levels, flushing and curing skill gives the quality we're all after.

 

Hydro buds do not suck when done properly. Rockwool, you can't recycle and you start fresh each time, fills up landfills. Bubbles, air, aero, DWC what ever you want to call it, is high proformance, but a higher risk in crop loss, your plants will die fast if you mess up, just ask BubbleGrower, he lost his whole crop and 180 gallons of water spilled everywhere. Expandable Clay Balls are expensive and hard to clean. Coco give you a buffer zone for your mistakes.

 

Coco requires no fancy drip or ebb and flow setup, it's optional, you can hand-water every day or 2. Results are amazing. Most Coco growers water once a day and the pH stays put.

 

Coco is also very cheap, about 70 cents a gallon, that's after it's expanded from a briefcase sized bale. I mix with 20% perlite. Do not use the Coco chips, roots cannot penetrate inside the chips, takes away your available root space.

 

Fox Farm Ocean Forest growers, try coco you will love it, Ocean Forest is not the same anymore, now it's low grade potting soil.

[pic book]

is interesting how can read lots of posts but never hear the problems, 180 gallons of water and whole crop, wonder in Cali room or Mich room?

was in cc 'buy room' most of a day this week, and close exam with loupe of crops offered for sale by walk ins brought to light lots of molds and other probs not evident with naked eye, mostly hydro, probably cause not endemic to hydro more than any other method, just everybody is going hydro.

[Grow Thread]

is interesting how can read lots of posts but never hear the problems, 180 gallons of water and whole crop, wonder in Cali room or Mich room?

was in cc 'buy room' most of a day this week, and close exam with loupe of crops offered for sale by walk ins brought to light lots of molds and other probs not evident with naked eye, mostly hydro, probably cause not endemic to hydro more than any other method, just everybody is going hydro.

 

that was here in MI.... what a nightmare...

and........... i didnt lose a single plant??? not sure where all that "crop loss" stuff came from. i made a mistake, lost 180 gallons of water...... but no plants

[badrobbie]

I never read any of these debates when I switched ... after growing for years in dirt, I was sick of buying and hauling the bags of dirt, then disposing of the "used dirt" and the fact that no matter what I did, dirt and eventually bugs were everywhere.

 

Switched to hydro and after one grow, I would never go back ... basic ebb and flow system, general hydro nutes and rockwool, all Ph balanced, simple, clean and forgiving. Faster growth, bigger more vibrant plants, more buds, cleaner, less work ... I grew the same genetics in dirt, then hydro, and there was no difference in taste or potency, but a big improvement in quality bud yield.

 

The only downside I can think of is that you've got the tub/reservoir cleaning task at the end of a grow ... that can be a pain. Other than that, no contest.

[jayt]

I know this is an old post but when I read it yesterday I thought one important advantage was overlooked. That would be space. Without having to access plants for daily watering I can achieve a better yield per square foot using hydroponics over soil. This is what brought about the SOG gardening techniques. Most growers I talked to are limited in the size of their grow room. And if I am wasting space to use as an aisle of sorts to reach my plants then I'm losing yield.

 

As far as the other arguments they have existed as long as hydroponics has been around. Which is better, which is faster, which yields more per plant. It all depends on who is running the grow. Once you are dialed in with your op you will do well with either.

[BassManD]

I like the idea of not being tied to your garden as much with hydro, but I'm a soil guy so I picked up some tropf blumats for watering and these things are awesome. It's like autopilot now, everything gets watered perfectly and I don't have to mess with things everyday just like the hydro guys.

[jayt]

I like the idea of not being tied to your garden as much with hydro, but I'm a soil guy so I picked up some tropf blumats for watering and these things are awesome. It's like autopilot now, everything gets watered perfectly and I don't have to mess with things everyday just like the hydro guys.

 

The tropf blumats looks interesting. I had a oasis automatic watering system. It would water twice a day through drippers. I found that it never quite watered right. It would either be too much or too little. It wasn't enough for large plants and could be too much for small ones. I still have it but it should go in the trash. The tropf blumats look like they would do a better job. I grow hydro and probably will never move back to soil 100% but I will always test and play in soil and my mothers are kept in soil.

[Les]

Coco is neither dirt or hydroponics. It's a 100% sustainable recycled medium unlike Peat Moss, which the harvesting of is destroying wetlands across the continent. Not to mention all the Guano that folks are using are causing a lot of damage in the caves by the Human traffic, caves are very sensitive to intrusion of man. Dirt grown doesn't give you a better medicine. The grower's genetics, feeding levels, flushing and curing skill gives the quality we're all after.

 

Hydro buds do not suck when done properly. Rockwool, you can't recycle and you start fresh each time, fills up landfills. Bubbles, air, aero, DWC what ever you want to call it, is high proformance, but a higher risk in crop loss, your plants will die fast if you mess up, just ask BubbleGrower, he lost his whole crop and 180 gallons of water spilled everywhere. Expandable Clay Balls are expensive and hard to clean. Coco give you a buffer zone for your mistakes.

 

Coco requires no fancy drip or ebb and flow setup, it's optional, you can hand-water every day or 2. Results are amazing. Most Coco growers water once a day and the pH stays put.

 

Coco is also very cheap, about 70 cents a gallon, that's after it's expanded from a briefcase sized bale. I mix with 20% perlite. Do not use the Coco chips, roots cannot penetrate inside the chips, takes away your available root space.

 

Fox Farm Ocean Forest growers, try coco you will love it, Ocean Forest is not the same anymore, now it's low grade potting soil.

 

 

 

Awesome info, thanks.

 

Are you familiar with ProMix, and if so, how would you compare it as a medium with Coco?

[rockinlespaul]

HAHA!!!

 

WOW....OLD thread.....

 

Not many know, but Bubblegrower actually came out and personally hooked up a little bubbletote system for me. Thanks again brother, tis was a great day.

 

The two Free Leonards are still in veg and are MONSTERS.

 

Will report back on them soon.....

[rockinlespaul]

Oh....my main grow is still in soil...well soiless.... at the moment.

[fabio1949]

I used to be a hydro only guy with 5 aeroponic reservoirs going for almost 2 years...until I was introduced to pythium. Might have gotten it from clones, don't know, but it has shifted my focus back to dirt. Sterilizing everything-pumps, sprayers,air stones, reservoirs-- in peroxide and bleach did not solve the problem. All I can think of is all new equipment...or back to dirt

[Indicat]

wow, people like to type - it's really this easy:

 

hydro = more costs, more equipment, more consumables, much higher maintenance. the payoff? insanely fast growth rates and "better" yields.

 

soil = more waste (cant reuse it), slower growth rates. the payoff? much lower maintenance than soil. very forgiving to grower mess ups. if you are using premium bagged stuff, quite often you don't even need to fertilize until you are into flower.

[LongHairBri]

wow, people like to type - it's really this easy:

 

hydro = more costs, more equipment, more consumables, much higher maintenance. the payoff? insanely fast growth rates and "better" yields.

 

soil = more waste (cant reuse it), slower growth rates. the payoff? much lower maintenance than soil. very forgiving to grower mess ups. if you are using premium bagged stuff, quite often you don't even need to fertilize until you are into flower.

you forgot hydro=less work