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Feminized Seeds And Hermaphroditism - A Clarification...


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I'de like to take a moment to help clarify some cloudy areas pertaining to Feminized seeds and Hermaphroditism.

 

First and foremost, many people aren't aware that Hermaphroditism is 100% natural in flowering plants and it's an actual survival adaptation.

 

Cannabis is a very simple but yet very complex organism. It has many adaptational abilities that help it ensure that it's genetics will prevail, in this aspect it is very simple and similar to all other dioecious plants. The Cannabis plant is a dioecious annual angiosperm. Also known as an annual flowering plant that has either male or female sex parts. Flowering plants have long been the study of amazing survival phenomena. There are many different types of flowering plants most of which are classified into two categories, Bisexual or Unisexual. Almost all Bisexual plants are literally natural Hermaphrodites or Monoclinous. Once classified as either Bisexual or Unisexual there are many other classifications that more specifically describes the sexual situations and genetic tendancies of the species itsself.

 

Cannabis falls into the Unisexual category. But Cannabis is actually very unique and quite complex in the sexual aspect of plant life. Cannabis is a Dioecious species. However, It also falls into the Subdioecious family. Subdioecious is a tendency in some dioecious plants to produce monoecious variants. The plant in particular would have to normally produce male or female plants but some are hermaphroditic, with female plants producing some male or hermaphroditic flowers or vice versa. The condition is thought to represent a transition between hermaphroditism and dioecy.

 

Hermaphroditism is a genetic adaptation present in almost all flowering plant life. With regard to Cannabis this is even more evident as every single cannabis plant sustains the ability to turn hermaphroditic in its genes. Regardless of the male/female genetic material inside the seed.

 

In lamen terms, what this means is that even with regular Cannabis seeds you can still end up with a hermaphrodite because it's a reserved genetic ability.

 

However, there is a twist and an actual reason for it. The only way a Cannabis plant will turn hermaphroditic is if it has some type of irregular and/or sudden stressor. This stressor could be anything, from a sudden lack of nutrients all the way to light leaks. Also, different strains and genetic compounds will exhibit different stress level requirements. Meaning some genetics will hermaphrodite a lot easier than others and vice versa.

 

To achieve feminized seeds you have to create a genetic anomole where the male gene is completely absent but the sexual exchange still occurs... It can be any strain or genetic compound of Cannabis plant because they all contain the hormones and growth response to turn hermaphroditic but it has to be female. In order to trigger that hormone however, what has to happen is the plant must be stressed to the point that it triggers the Hermaphroditic hormonal growth response. There are numerous methods to stress a Cannabis plant to the point that it turns hermaphroditic. The most common method used amoung professional breeders is the use of Collidial Silver chemical hormone compound. Once the hormone has been triggered the plant instinctively begins to produce pollen sacs. These pollen sacs are very unique though because they do not contain any male genes. They are all female genetics. The result of pollenation from female pollen is seeds that have developed in the absence of male genes, a.k.a. feminized seeds.

 

The myth behind all this is that somehow by doing this it segregates the plants hermaphroditic genes and makes them more prominent. I call it a myth because it is exactly that. There is no scientific evidence that this occurs or that this phenomena even CAN occur. The hermaphroditic ability is determined in the plants genetics from the beginning of it's life as a seed... If the original plant/s genetics are naturally prone to hermaphroditism than ANY seed, feminized or not, is going to exhibit that ability based on that plants genetic tendancies and the stress levels required to trigger the hormonal response specific to that plant. There is no way to change that plants genetic compound or it's hormonal response levels. To achieve something like that would require genetic manipulation. Hermaphrodites are not genetically altered plants. They are 100% natural and carry all the original genetics of the mother plant... A feminized seed will respond the same as a normally bred seed under the same environmental stressors.

 

My opinion on this is that I have yet to see anyone actually try to prove this by side by side trial. However, I stand a firm ground by the side of the current scientific evidence on the issue. The only seeds I will use are feminized seeds. I wouldn't have it any other way. Throughout my cultivation experience I have indeed had a few hermies that just happened to have been sprouted from feminized seeds. However that doesn't make them any different from the hermies I got from regular seeds. Yes, I have and you can too, get a hermaphrodite from regular seeds.

 

Before I knew anything about genetics, botany, or feminized seeds I did like everyone else did. Just took seeds from a good bag, germinated them in paper towel, then planted them in the dirt and hoped for the best. Being inexperienced during my beginning years of cultivation my environments were always far from optimal. I had bullchit CFL setups and T5s at the time, scrappy grow boxes that weren't properly sealed off and what not. I was having horrible luck. I had more males than females half the time. And the females I did get were the sorriest excuse for a deficient plant you could imagine. Something striked me as odd one harvest when I noticed two of my ladies had beans in it! I was absolutely POSITIVE I had weeded out all the males. Needless to say I found two hermaphrodites. At the time I didn't know Cannabis plants could do that. That's when I got online and started reading about hermaphroditism. That's right, I learned and experienced my first hermaphrodites from REGULAR Cannabis seeds. I learned as much as I could about the subject after that. I started getting very serious about cultivating. I even took a Botany class to help better my understanding of plant life. Once I learned about feminized seeds, hermaphroditism and everything in between, I went femi and never looked back!

 

The bottom line is this. Any Cannabis plant can turn hermie. Some strains are more prone to the response than others. We cannot change that response, it is genetic.

 

Here's a good way to look at it also -

 

You can start with 10 regular seeds and end up with 10 females. Or you could end up with 10 males. Or you could end up with 9 males and 1 female. Or you can end up with 8 males, 1 hermie and 1 female. Or 9 females and 1 male. Or you could end up with 8 females, 1 hermie and 1 male. Or you could end up with 10 hermies. (LOTS of variables)

 

Or you can start with 10 feminized seeds and end up with 10 females. Or you could end up with 9 females and 1 hermie. Or you can end up with 8 females, 1 hermie, and uhhh, another female? Or you could end up with 10 hermies... (Only a few variables)

 

The point is, regardless of the hermaphroditic tendancy, by using feminized seeds you VASTLY increase your chances of a female outcome. Not to mention it can save a LOT of time by cloning those feminized plants. The actual biological proccess of inducing the hermaphroditic hormone, whether it is induced naturally or chemically, is basically an exploit on a natural occurance. But this does not mean that it's not a natural occurance to begin with.

 

I hope this helps some people understand this whole deboggle a little better.

 

Any input, opinions or further research are always welcome!

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Thanks for the kind words! Always appreciated!

 

Awesome bigE. Yea I'm quite the edumacated individual myself. Though I rarely toot my own horn and most of the time I'll let others learn on thier own, just as I did. But there are some topics that I just can't stand to see people misinformed about.

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  • 3 weeks later...

This year I have only used feminized seeds, I have only got females because of it, I have never got a herm once ever even with normal seeds

 

Really its hard for me to decide in some ways between fem and reg seeds, fem seeds do save you a lot of time, space, and money..

 

However it is clear to me that regular seeds produce a more vigorous plant.

 

Really good call on hermies not being caused by feminized seeds.

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  • 4 weeks later...
Guest drcanna-pest

too bad there are always things that happen that will cause the cannabis to go hermie...THC-Farmer - do you think there is any way to make it a sure bet that the plant won't hermie or is it all about finding the right strain?

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So if a plant hermies, and creates seeds... are these seeds feminized?

Yes absolutely! No ifs ands or butts about it.

 

Any plant pollenated by female chromosomal pollen will produce feminized seeds. (pollen from a hermie has no male chromosomes)

 

All feminized seeds are is seeds that were developed without the male chromosome. When a female plant turns hermaphroditic it produces its own pollen with its own chromosomes. Any plant pollenated with pollen that has no male chromosomes will produce feminized seeds.

 

So if you have a plant that turns hermaphroditic and it pollenates itsself it will indeed produce feminized seeds. This is a fact.

 

If any other female plants are pollenated by that same pollen, they too will in fact produce feminized seeds. However, there will also be a genetic cross-breed in this situation. Cross-breeds done this way also tend to be more stable than regular cross breeds because of the absence of the male chromosomes. Essentially it reduces genetic variables so the end result has less variables.

 

THC-Farmer - do you think there is any way to make it a sure bet that the plant won't hermie or is it all about finding the right strain?

Unfortunately not...

 

There is no way to ensure that a Cannabis plant will not turn hermaphroditic. This is because ALL Cannabis plants reserve the genetic ability to do so. Regardless if the genetics are bound in a seed created by all female chromosomes or if they are bound in a seed created by male and female chromosomes, the Cannabis plant reserves the ability to save its species via self pollenation, AKA Hermaphroditism.

 

Eliminating the hermaphrodite gene would require some serious scientific genetic manipulation. A feat that has yet to even be theorized as possible.

 

For now, we are at the mercy of nature. Our best bet is to identify and obtain stable genetics and provide a stable environment. So yes, it's all about the genetics and finding strains that are less prone to turning hermie.

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Yes absolutely! No ifs ands or butts about it.

 

Any plant pollenated by female chromosomal pollen will produce feminized seeds. (pollen from a hermie has no male chromosomes)

 

All feminized seeds are is seeds that were developed without the male chromosome. When a female plant turns hermaphroditic it produces its own pollen with its own chromosomes. Any plant pollenated with pollen that has no male chromosomes will produce feminized seeds.

 

So if you have a plant that turns hermaphroditic and it pollenates itsself it will indeed produce feminized seeds. This is a fact.

 

If any other female plants are pollenated by that same pollen, they too will in fact produce feminized seeds. However, there will also be a genetic cross-breed in this situation. Cross-breeds done this way also tend to be more stable than regular cross breeds because of the absence of the male chromosomes. Essentially it reduces genetic variables so the end result has less variables.

 

 

Thanks for the info.

 

So, then it sounds like, if a plant gets stressed and hermies, any resulting seeds are/could be a good thing huh?

 

 

I had some seeds from what was supposed to be some OG Kush gone hermie. My boy that had them said the seeds would just be garbage and more prone to hermie, so he was going to throw the rest away.

 

I sprouted a few of them, and seem to have gotten a couple fems, but the 2 I have, dont look like the same strain at all, but the seeds came from the same bag/bud. The seeds were started at the same time, and growing in the same ebb/flow tray with the same nutes, everything is the same, yet the plants look completely different. One has darker colors, and very large fan leaves compared to the other one.

How much difference can there be in 2 seeds from the same hermie plant from the same sack

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A while ago I grew out about 30 seeds, all from a hermie cross pollination. They indeed all started out female, but about 75% turned hermie eventually. The remaining 25% were beautiful, uniform plants that I still wish I had.

 

I think my case was more of a genetically based hermie tendency, rather than one resulting from environmental stress.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Any input, opinions or further research are always welcome!

 

How about questions?

 

What do you do with hermaphroditic plants?

 

Are they still good meds for my qualified patitents? If so, are the yields and potency to be the same?

 

Should they be quarantined?

 

Should they be used for edibles or oil?

 

Here is my situation:

 

I have 3 plants ready for harvest in about 2 weeks. I moved 3 plants into the flower room 8 days ago. I walk in this morning and 2 of 3 turned hermaphroditic!

 

Could they pollenate my other 3 plants ready to harvest in a couple of weeks? If so, would there be time to generate seeds?

 

I've only ever had feminized seeds and hermaproditism is all new to me.

 

Thanks in advance for any and all answers!

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How about questions?

Just as welcome as anything else!

 

What do you do with hermaphroditic plants?

Honestly there are really only two benefactors of having a hermaphroditic plant or plants...

 

Regaurdless of the information below, you ALWAYS want to segregate known hermies ASAP. The must be quarantined, yes, because they can indeed pollenate your entire garden given proper air-flow... But this does not mean they are useless!!

 

A couple things you can do with hermaphroditic plants -

 

Personally I would quarantine the plant, remove the pollen sacs very carefully and then finish it out if you can and get what ever bud you can off it. Thats one thing you can do with it.

 

If you notice it in time (before the pollen sacs open) you have yourself some pollen which is absent of male chromosomes. This means it is 100% female chromosomal pollen. You can save the pollen and use it to breed feminized seeds on any plant you want. Now, granted, any cross you do get will have many different phenotypes as the genetic cross is not stablized. But you will have guaranteed female plants no matter what you do. Now, here's something to think about though. If the plant that turned hermaphroditic did so very easily, chances are you don't want to breed with that plant. Those are bad genetics and any successor may garnish the same hermaphroditic tendancies.

 

But if in fact you want to take your chances with the genes and produce some feminized seeds crossed with the plant of your choice, it's very very simple to do. First, you want to locate all the pollen sacs you can, but do this ONLY after you have removed the plant from the grow room and quarantined it. Once you have located all the pollen sacs, gently clip them off and put them in a plastic baggie. It's good practice to wear gloves of some sort or make SURE you wash your hands before you go groaping on your gals because sometimes the pollen can get stuck between your finger print groves and when you touch the flowers, bam, pollenation by molestation... lol... Then what you want to do is take the baggie full of pollen sacs as far away from the grow room as you can. Then take all the pollen sacs out of the baggie. You'll want either another plastic baggie to do this or some kind of a small glass vile. Glass viles work the best for long term storage. Gently open each pollen sac and tap off all the pollen from each one onto the plastic baggie. Once all the pollen sacs are empty do your best to get it all inside the other baggie or the glass vile. Seal either one up and pop it in the refridgerator.

 

To pollenate the plant you wish to cross with that plant, simply grab the baggie or vile of pollen and a Q-Tip. It's best to bring the plant that you want to pollenate out of the grow room to do this. But then you find a good healthy branch, dip the Q-Tip gently into the pollen, swipe the Q-Tip over some of the buds and viola! In a few weeks you'll have a custom feminized cross. However, like I mentioned before, these seeds, although guaranteed female, may vary greatly in thier genetic traits.

 

Are they still good meds for my qualified patitents? If so, are the yields and potency to be the same?

Yes, absolutely! The quality should be roughly the same as it normally would. Although, overall growth and production may be affected if the plant actually pollenates itsself because it will take on seed production as well. You may experience a reduction in yield but overall potency should remain the same as long as the plant is left to mature as per normal.

 

Should they be used for edibles or oil?

Personal choice. It can't hurt! Although it takes quite a bit of bud to make oil.

 

Here is my situation:

 

I have 3 plants ready for harvest in about 2 weeks. I moved 3 plants into the flower room 8 days ago. I walk in this morning and 2 of 3 turned hermaphroditic!

 

Could they pollenate my other 3 plants ready to harvest in a couple of weeks? If so, would there be time to generate seeds?

 

I've only ever had feminized seeds and hermaproditism is all new to me.

 

Thanks in advance for any and all answers!

Sorry to hear that. It happens to the best of us. Just be glad you don't have my luck. The very first time I decided to grow my own bud, I planted 10 regular seeds I had ordered from Attitude Seed Bank. 9 of them turned out male. 1 was female but it turned hermaphroditic. The genetics were Big Bang from Greenhouse Seed Company. This happened about 3-4yrs ago.

 

Yes they can pollenate EVERYTHING in the garden that is female if they are left in there!! As far as there being time to generate seeds, well, 2 weeks is enough time to definitely develope a few but nothing to be overly concerned about. You may find a fully developed seed or two in there. Anything else will more than likely not have enough time to develope. But it all depends on whether or not you noticed the hermaphrodites in time.

 

Have they opened the pollen sacs yet?

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  • 2 months later...

I'de like to take a moment to help clarify some cloudy areas pertaining to Feminized seeds and Hermaphroditism.

 

First and foremost, many people aren't aware that Hermaphroditism is 100% natural in flowering plants and it's an actual survival adaptation.

 

Cannabis is a very simple but yet very complex organism. It has many adaptational abilities that help it ensure that it's genetics will prevail, in this aspect it is very simple and similar to all other dioecious plants. The Cannabis plant is a dioecious annual angiosperm. Also known as an annual flowering plant that has either male or female sex parts. Flowering plants have long been the study of amazing survival phenomena. There are many different types of flowering plants most of which are classified into two categories, Bisexual or Unisexual. Almost all Bisexual plants are literally natural Hermaphrodites or Monoclinous. Once classified as either Bisexual or Unisexual there are many other classifications that more specifically describes the sexual situations and genetic tendancies of the species itsself.

 

Cannabis falls into the Unisexual category. But Cannabis is actually very unique and quite complex in the sexual aspect of plant life. Cannabis is a Dioecious species. However, It also falls into the Subdioecious family. Subdioecious is a tendency in some dioecious plants to produce monoecious variants. The plant in particular would have to normally produce male or female plants but some are hermaphroditic, with female plants producing some male or hermaphroditic flowers or vice versa. The condition is thought to represent a transition between hermaphroditism and dioecy.

 

Hermaphroditism is a genetic adaptation present in almost all flowering plant life. With regard to Cannabis this is even more evident as every single cannabis plant sustains the ability to turn hermaphroditic in its genes. Regardless of the male/female genetic material inside the seed.

 

In lamen terms, what this means is that even with regular Cannabis seeds you can still end up with a hermaphrodite because it's a reserved genetic ability.

 

However, there is a twist and an actual reason for it. The only way a Cannabis plant will turn hermaphroditic is if it has some type of irregular and/or sudden stressor. This stressor could be anything, from a sudden lack of nutrients all the way to light leaks. Also, different strains and genetic compounds will exhibit different stress level requirements. Meaning some genetics will hermaphrodite a lot easier than others and vice versa.

 

To achieve feminized seeds you have to create a genetic anomole where the male gene is completely absent but the sexual exchange still occurs... It can be any strain or genetic compound of Cannabis plant because they all contain the hormones and growth response to turn hermaphroditic but it has to be female. In order to trigger that hormone however, what has to happen is the plant must be stressed to the point that it triggers the Hermaphroditic hormonal growth response. There are numerous methods to stress a Cannabis plant to the point that it turns hermaphroditic. The most common method used amoung professional breeders is the use of Collidial Silver chemical hormone compound. Once the hormone has been triggered the plant instinctively begins to produce pollen sacs. These pollen sacs are very unique though because they do not contain any male genes. They are all female genetics. The result of pollenation from female pollen is seeds that have developed in the absence of male genes, a.k.a. feminized seeds.

 

The myth behind all this is that somehow by doing this it segregates the plants hermaphroditic genes and makes them more prominent. I call it a myth because it is exactly that. There is no scientific evidence that this occurs or that this phenomena even CAN occur. The hermaphroditic ability is determined in the plants genetics from the beginning of it's life as a seed... If the original plant/s genetics are naturally prone to hermaphroditism than ANY seed, feminized or not, is going to exhibit that ability based on that plants genetic tendancies and the stress levels required to trigger the hormonal response specific to that plant. There is no way to change that plants genetic compound or it's hormonal response levels. To achieve something like that would require genetic manipulation. Hermaphrodites are not genetically altered plants. They are 100% natural and carry all the original genetics of the mother plant... A feminized seed will respond the same as a normally bred seed under the same environmental stressors.

 

My opinion on this is that I have yet to see anyone actually try to prove this by side by side trial. However, I stand a firm ground by the side of the current scientific evidence on the issue. The only seeds I will use are feminized seeds. I wouldn't have it any other way. Throughout my cultivation experience I have indeed had a few hermies that just happened to have been sprouted from feminized seeds. However that doesn't make them any different from the hermies I got from regular seeds. Yes, I have and you can too, get a hermaphrodite from regular seeds.

 

Before I knew anything about genetics, botany, or feminized seeds I did like everyone else did. Just took seeds from a good bag, germinated them in paper towel, then planted them in the dirt and hoped for the best. Being inexperienced during my beginning years of cultivation my environments were always far from optimal. I had bullchit CFL setups and T5s at the time, scrappy grow boxes that weren't properly sealed off and what not. I was having horrible luck. I had more males than females half the time. And the females I did get were the sorriest excuse for a deficient plant you could imagine. Something striked me as odd one harvest when I noticed two of my ladies had beans in it! I was absolutely POSITIVE I had weeded out all the males. Needless to say I found two hermaphrodites. At the time I didn't know Cannabis plants could do that. That's when I got online and started reading about hermaphroditism. That's right, I learned and experienced my first hermaphrodites from REGULAR Cannabis seeds. I learned as much as I could about the subject after that. I started getting very serious about cultivating. I even took a Botany class to help better my understanding of plant life. Once I learned about feminized seeds, hermaphroditism and everything in between, I went femi and never looked back!

 

The bottom line is this. Any Cannabis plant can turn hermie. Some strains are more prone to the response than others. We cannot change that response, it is genetic.

 

Here's a good way to look at it also -

 

You can start with 10 regular seeds and end up with 10 females. Or you could end up with 10 males. Or you could end up with 9 males and 1 female. Or you can end up with 8 males, 1 hermie and 1 female. Or 9 females and 1 male. Or you could end up with 8 females, 1 hermie and 1 male. Or you could end up with 10 hermies. (LOTS of variables)

 

Or you can start with 10 feminized seeds and end up with 10 females. Or you could end up with 9 females and 1 hermie. Or you can end up with 8 females, 1 hermie, and uhhh, another female? Or you could end up with 10 hermies... (Only a few variables)

 

The point is, regardless of the hermaphroditic tendancy, by using feminized seeds you VASTLY increase your chances of a female outcome. Not to mention it can save a LOT of time by cloning those feminized plants. The actual biological proccess of inducing the hermaphroditic hormone, whether it is induced naturally or chemically, is basically an exploit on a natural occurance. But this does not mean that it's not a natural occurance to begin with.

 

I hope this helps some people understand this whole deboggle a little better.

 

Any input, opinions or further research are always welcome!

You forgot one very important thing if you breed a FEMINIZED girl with a regular DAD there will be MUTATIONS due to the allelles not being able to line up properly and part of the plant will be abnormal. Not all but some of the off spring wil lhave like 3 leaves on a top cole that would otherwise only have 2 fans popping out on either side.

 

Breedinh FEMS is not adviseable unless a last resort to keep a strain for the future.

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  • 5 months later...
Guest finallyfree09

i have read that using a male that has hermaphroditic tendencies for breeding is a good way to prevent hermies in future generations. obviously you would not want to use a female to male hermie for breeding but what about a male to female herm? is what i read true??? i also read that most male to female hermies are sterile. just curious.

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While we are on the subject of hermies, does anyone have experience with the product called Reverse by Dutch Masters? It is used to atop a female plant from going hermie at the beginning of flowering. Testimonials to it working or not are varied, but some people swear by it. I picked some Reverse up last month as I have a killer strain that I want to keep growing, but it is as unstable as Sarah Palin on crack. 100% of the beans I've grown so far went hermie, and they went early in flower with little stress. Reverse isn't cheap: it's around $22/quart, plus you need to buy Dutch Master Saturator (their wetting agent) to go with it, which is another $25. You foliar spray it twice at the beginning of flowering. Any first hand experience would be appreciated.

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Hermie begats hermie begats hermie begats hermie..............and so on.

 

Exactly. Lots of misinformation in this thread.

 

Good breeders don't use just any hermaphroditic plant to make feminized seeds with either. They use a plant that has to endure lots of stress before it hermies. There is more to it buts that's a start.

 

There is a difference between feminized seed and hermie seed.

Edited by tricloud
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RECESSIVE GENES RECOMBINING to form DOMINANT NEGATIVE EXPRESSIONS....

 

bad mutations and strain failures(two great strains combined yet yield and quality are failures) it does and can happen-it is risky business when crossing plants of similar genetic makeup

now when crossing land races that is another story wonderful things can and do happen when HYBRIDIZING happens...which is how we now have such wonderful strains to choose from world wide

i will follow with this... when compounding/stacking genes if you get unlucky you can stack hermie genes on top of one another and end up with shite genetics!

 

yes feminized seeds offer a better chance at a female plants but with a risky caveat attached

 

hope the whole fem seed is not the GOV'T (Dave Watson aka SKUNKMAN) spooks trying to play god by destroying cannabis thru Frankenstein genetic timebombs-only a thought/theory

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