Are We Allowed To Dispense Meds. To Paitents That Arent Ours?

[stuckinlodi]

Even having Zip Lock bags in your house is used as evidence. Never mind the fact that every home has these bags.

 

 

 

I've been offline for a while and am now just catching up here. I've read the other posts by this person and was able to shake my head at most of his dilusionsal ramblings, but this "point" of his had me in stitches I was laughing so hard. This guys sits here and spouts off how it doesn't matter how legal you are being because a jury is smart enough to know that people don't smoke a qp a day or whatever his imaginary amount was. Yet he presumes a jury of HIS peers would be so stupid that they would think sandwich bags can't be used for anything other than distributing marijuana to non-patient mj users. You certainly would NEVER use one of those little plastic bags to, say, put a sandwich in and maybe another bag for some chips and then a third one for a couple of cookie. Well, shiz!, add a juice box and I just packed my kid a lunch! Certainly no jury would believe THAT nonsense, would they? I hope this guy feels better about himself one day. It would suck to be that miserable forever.

[bobandtorey]

I have been hearing the rumor about cops using forged documents also..As you said they ENTRAP CG and PT....Entrapment is not legal last time I checked, so even if this was the case it shouldn't stand up in court..If it does then it should be taken to the supreme court and I would bet some pretty decent lawyers would get on board for that one.I would hope anyways. I mean if that is true that just tells me you cant trust anyone EVEN if they have a card because who is to say the cops wouldn't forge a card? I mean for real it is against the law for ANYONE to forge legal documents as a form of entrapment. I just started advertising this company on my site but they may be able to help with the whole is it a real PT question... http://www.simplegreenid.com/ I think that is the point to this particular website so check it out for your own safety.

 

i guess we will mfind out soon but we do know now they had fake ID's

[MORE COWBELL]

My question is WHY would you want to dispense to someone unregistered to you?

 

You are risking your card, and your patients that you have currently, medication?

 

I get compassion, and care giving..... but, what is the true reason? I can't think of a need large enough for me to risk my card and my patients medication.

 

If they are really in need, why wouldn't they WANT to sign you as a CG?

 

While you MAY be covered under the AD section of the law, No one has tested that YET...............so everyone piping up here saying "yes it's legal" is saying it without a court case proving it's legality.

 

And, if it were as plainly legal as some are claiming it to be..............the dispensaries that were raided probably wouldn't have been raided.

[/quote

 

 

 

BECAUSE THERE ARE WAY MORE PATIENTS THAN CARE GIVERS that is why

[+Silverblue]

The cg /pt question seems to be clear, but.....I thought I saw, awhile back, possibly in May, that someone at the MDCH, at some meeting, said pt/pt transfers are legal, yet recently someone said Ms O'Keefe said the law doesn't say it is. I talked to a lawyer about it and even he says the law is vague. That's bad. He's not an MM lawyer though, but he referred me to someone who might be, so I'm gonna talk with him. Some say it is, some say it's not. For now I'd be very careful and follow the 5 pt section if I were a Cg.

 

Sb

[herb green]

As far as I know if you have a card you can buy it anywhere

 

And transfer to any other person with a card...p2p at least

 

And by card I mean card or 20 day equivelant

 

This is my understanding....it falls under the medical use or aiding medical use

 

Its been copy/pasted into the thread multiple times

[bobandtorey]

i think it will be Oakland county that will decide and that case is far from over

[phaquetoo]

I HAVE HEARD A LOT OF GOSSIP ABOUT WETHER OR NOT WE ARE ALLOWED AS CAREGIVERS TO DISPENSE MEDS TO PAITENTS THAT ARE NOT SIGNED UP WITH US. IN ADRIAN, WHERE I AM, THERE HAVE BEEN SEVERAL RAIDS BY THOSE muffin makers OMNI I SEE ADS ONLINE FOR PEOPLE THAT ARE DOING THIS SO I WOULD ASSUME THAT IT LEAGAL. HOWEVER I DONT WANT TO HAVE MY DOOR KICKED IN FOR DRUG DEALING. SO CAN I DISPENSE TO ANY PATIENT? OR IS THIS JUST MORE moo-poo?

 

 

yes you are helping aquire meds for a legal patient, whether they are yours or just patients!

Pm me and lets talk!

 

Peace

FTW

Jim

[raw]

Under the law that I read you can only dispense to patients you grow for.

In reality you can dispense to any patient under the program as long as they are reimbursing you for no profit. You can also be reimbursed for your time. But there are LEOs printing fake cards and busting people. So it is a very bad Idea.

 

Also the law in MI sucks in that you have to cycle your plants through the grow which means you have to continually harvest and clone plants and get multiple permits in order to have sufficient medicine for your patients.

 

Keeping your room free of pests in a continuous grow is tricky at best and the 2.5 oz limit per patient is very restrictive.

 

 

I HAVE HEARD A LOT OF GOSSIP ABOUT WETHER OR NOT WE ARE ALLOWED AS CAREGIVERS TO DISPENSE MEDS TO PAITENTS THAT ARE NOT SIGNED UP WITH US. IN ADRIAN, WHERE I AM, THERE HAVE BEEN SEVERAL RAIDS BY THOSE muffin makers OMNI I SEE ADS ONLINE FOR PEOPLE THAT ARE DOING THIS SO I WOULD ASSUME THAT IT LEAGAL. HOWEVER I DONT WANT TO HAVE MY DOOR KICKED IN FOR DRUG DEALING. SO CAN I DISPENSE TO ANY PATIENT? OR IS THIS JUST MORE moo-poo?

[Broken]

my question is,

 

If they wanted you to be able to give to any patient, then why would they make the 5 patient to a caregiver link in the first place?

 

I might be missing something, I'd love if caregivers could get rid of overages... I'll be in that situation soon, as I will be a patient/caregiver.

[Royal Smoke]

my question is,

 

If they wanted you to be able to give to any patient, then why would they make the 5 patient to a caregiver link in the first place?

 

I might be missing something, I'd love if caregivers could get rid of overages... I'll be in that situation soon, as I will be a patient/caregiver.

 

Why do they call it a primary caregiver? Wouldn't that lead one to believe that there may be secondary caregivers?

[phaquetoo]

Yes You are! just dont get caught! lol!

 

I beleive if a c.g helped a patient that wasnt registered to him, but was a qualified patient, you would be good to go with the A.D!

 

You know if you have always gotten from a friend or two and they have gotten from you over the yrs., you can still associate with them,

 

You ever hear the saying dont burn bridges, its the peeps that dont want to register that have been growing an getting an awsome supply for yrs!

 

Keep all options open and just make sure you your self are within your limits!

 

Peace

FTW

Jim

 

(loose Lips sink ships)

[Southern Cross]

my question is,

 

If they wanted you to be able to give to any patient, then why would they make the 5 patient to a caregiver link in the first place?

 

I might be missing something, I'd love if caregivers could get rid of overages... I'll be in that situation soon, as I will be a patient/caregiver.

Actually Prop 1 made two links. One for registered patients and caregivers and one for unregistered patients and caregivers. The first is the registered qualifying patient and registered caregiver. Those protections are covered in Section 4 of the Act and how the Department of Community Health will administer the registration process is covered in Section 6. This is the strongest link. It protects from arrest, prosecution, penalty and so on. It limits the number of plants to 12 and the amount a patient and caregiver may possess to 2.5 ounces each and it limits a patient to only one primary caregiver and a caregiver to a maximum of 5 patients.

 

Unregistered patients and caregivers are protected under Section 8, the Affirmative Defense (AD.) These protections are much broader. They have no limits on how many caregivers a patient can acquire from or on how many patients an unregistered caregiver can assist with the medical use of cannabis. Medical use is defined in Section 2 of the act and includes acquisition and transfer, cultivation and manufacture etc. The only limit on quantity is no more than reasonably necessary to provide an uninterrupted supply of medicine.

 

The main problem with Section 8 is it doesn't protect from arrest and prosecution. In other words, you have already been busted when you assert the AD.

[The Digital Nomad]

Yes You are! just dont get caught! lol!

 

I beleive if a c.g helped a patient that wasnt registered to him, but was a qualified patient, you would be good to go with the A.D!

 

 

 

Its patient 2 patient transfer. That CG cannot help another patient under P2P unless he is a patient himself. A CG is worded specifically in the law that they can only help the 5 patients REGISTERED WITH THE MDCH as his patients. But, P2P - opens the CG/Patient supplier... I would not try the AD protection being a CG supplying more than his five patients..

 

-DN

[bobandtorey]

Its patient 2 patient transfer. That CG cannot help another patient under P2P unless he is a patient himself. A CG is worded specifically in the law that they can only help the 5 patients REGISTERED WITH THE MDCH as his patients. But, P2P - opens the CG/Patient supplier... I would not try the AD protection being a CG supplying more than his five patients..

 

-DN

 

do you think that is why the PA is using a caregiver to go against the dispensary i heard him say he was not a patient on the stand

[bobandtorey]

do you think that is why the PA is using a caregiver to go against the dispensary i heard him say he was not a patient on the stand

 

 

sorry in rhe waterford case

[Croppled1]

That, PB is VERY true!

 

I just wanted the other side of the coin to be shown. It seemed like everyone was jumping on the "yeah it's totally legal" band wagon..............mean while this poor schlep is being taken away in hand cuffs saying "But, they said it was legal?!"

 

That wouldn't be fair.

 

He needs to know it is up to HIS level of risk he is comfortable with.

 

It has not been proven legal.

You go girl nobody should just follow others off a cliff without exploring or hearing all the options .Some of us have metal impariment , injuries , current illness suffering or disabillities that keep us from easily seeing all sides and were not safe to be processed or go through arrest . We have to consider risk and choose properly . Good for you speaking up against popular opinion to point out the risk .You would think the authorities would consider this too . However the AD is never guaranteed , requires arrest , defending oneself , and is always costly .It can be way past many patients or caregivers abillities . The truth doesnt always set one free sadly .Whoever turned a health issue into a " Criminal War " with casualties of otherise law abiding Citizens inside our borders was a fool .

 

 

Didn't they ever see the Movie about a innocent man " I Am a Fujative From a Chain Gang 32 " ? Last line " How do you live ? - I steal" !

[Hempcheff]

Its patient 2 patient transfer. That CG cannot help another patient under P2P unless he is a patient himself. A CG is worded specifically in the law that they can only help the 5 patients REGISTERED WITH THE MDCH as his patients. But, P2P - opens the CG/Patient supplier... I would not try the AD protection being a CG supplying more than his five patients..

 

-DN

 

(e) A registered primary caregiver may receive compensation for costs associated with assisting a registered qualifying patient in the medical use of marihuana. Any such compensation shall not constitute the sale of controlled substances.

 

the law states A patient, with medical use, there is no possesive wording -his/her, the, registered to him, - the act is the registration that links all caregivers and patients, IMO, any and all cardholder to cardholder transactions within weight limits and plant counts are legal under Michigans Act.

[GregS]

Uuh. One does not "plea" guilty. One pleads guilty or accepts a plea or a pleading.

[pic book]

And many 'test cases' popped for the offense, far from volunteering to be the 'test case,' who could have used this as an aspect of their defense have refused to defend the point, and instead have taken a deal.

[Southern Cross]

And many 'test cases' popped for the offense, far from volunteering to be the 'test case,' who could have used this as an aspect of their defense have refused to defend the point, and instead have taken a deal.

Unless you can afford a very good attorney I would recommend staying well within the limits of Section 4.

 

The Affirmative Defense is very simple and any decent lawyer should be able to win most cases involving medical use. But Michigan has one of the worst public defense systems in the country. http://michiganmessenger.com/44326/public-defender-lawsuit-can-go-forward-after-all

 

The average court appointed attorney in Michigan spends about 30 minutes on a case and that includes time in court. They work on a flat fee basis. They don't get paid extra for going to trial. They don't have the time to read the MMMAct, or the time to figure it out. They want to spend a few minutes with the prosecutor to get a good plea bargain, then a few minutes with their client to convince them to accept the deal, then collect their small check and move on.

 

Slowly, but surely these things will get straightened out. Until then it's better safe than sorry.

[bobandtorey]

you can say that again

Muskegon and Genesee counties, alleging that the state’s public defender system is so inadequate that it violates the Sixth Amendment guarantee of the right to counsel.

 

 

[bobandtorey]

Unless you can afford a very good attorney I would recommend staying well within the limits of Section 4.

 

The Affirmative Defense is very simple and any decent lawyer should be able to win most cases involving medical use. But Michigan has one of the worst public defense systems in the country. http://michiganmesse...rward-after-all

 

The average court appointed attorney in Michigan spends about 30 minutes on a case and that includes time in court. They work on a flat fee basis. They don't get paid extra for going to trial. They don't have the time to read the MMMAct, or the time to figure it out. They want to spend a few minutes with the prosecutor to get a good plea bargain, then a few minutes with their client to convince them to accept the deal, then collect their small check and move on.

 

Slowly, but surely these things will get straightened out. Until then it's better safe than sorry.

 

The Affirmative Defense is very simple and any decent lawyer should be able to win most cases involving medical use. But Michigan has one of the worst public defense systems in the country

 

do you know why we are still inn court?

[Southern Cross]

The Affirmative Defense is very simple and any decent lawyer should be able to win most cases involving medical use. But Michigan has one of the worst public defense systems in the country

 

do you know why we are still inn court?

I can only guess that it's because the Insane Assclown Posse led by the Reefer Madness Drug Warrior Wicked Witch of Oakland County Jesse Jane Cooper would like to put all medical cannabis users in jail. They can't believe that We the People voted to make this non toxic plant available as a remedy to treat the sick and dying. They think we should be forced to take toxic drugs and suffer with the potentially deadly side effects.

 

Your lawyer did the right thing and presented the evidence that you and Torey had doctor recommendations for medical cannabis, that you didn't have too many plants and that your cannabis was for medical use. The judge did the right thing when he looked at the evidence presented by your lawyer and dismissed the charges. That should have been the end of the story.

 

But Jesse the Dark Princess Drug Warrior was not looking for justice. She wants to put people in jail. She directed her large office full of assistant prosecutors, paralegals, law clerks and legal assistants to study this new law and find a way to lock people up. This taxpayer funded brain trust couldn't figure out the plain language of Prop 1 of 2008. They couldn't believe that We the People voted to allow the medical use of cannabis. They couldn't figure out what it meant when We the People voted to, " Permit registered and unregistered patients and primary caregivers to assert medical reasons for using marijuana as a defense to any prosecution involving marijuana."

 

They studied the MMMA, but couldn't figure out that if each person is allowed to possess 12 plants how many plants can two people have? They can make fake IDs on their computer, but they couldn't multiply 2 times 12 and get 24. So they think your 21 or 22 plants between 2 people might be too much.

 

They know that the cops had to use a battering ram to knock your door down, but they're not sure if it was an enclosed locked facility.

 

I want to know how much money We the People are paying this Insane Assclown Posse.

 

Bob, I am so sorry that you guys are going through this mess. I know it can never be made right. But I'm sure you will be free soon. You have the law on your side and more importantly you have a good lawyer.

 

Good luck, stay strong and know that we are all pulling for you.

[bobandtorey]

I can only guess that it's because the Insane Assclown Posse led by the Reefer Madness Drug Warrior Wicked Witch of Oakland County Jesse Jane Cooper would like to put all medical cannabis users in jail. They can't believe that We the People voted to make this non toxic plant available as a remedy to treat the sick and dying. They think we should be forced to take toxic drugs and suffer with the potentially deadly side effects.

 

Your lawyer did the right thing and presented the evidence that you and Torey had doctor recommendations for medical cannabis, that you didn't have too many plants and that your cannabis was for medical use. The judge did the right thing when he looked at the evidence presented by your lawyer and dismissed the charges. That should have been the end of the story.

 

But Jesse the Dark Princess Drug Warrior was not looking for justice. She wants to put people in jail. She directed her large office full of assistant prosecutors, paralegals, law clerks and legal assistants to study this new law and find a way to lock people up. This taxpayer funded brain trust couldn't figure out the plain language of Prop 1 of 2008. They couldn't believe that We the People voted to allow the medical use of cannabis. They couldn't figure out what it meant when We the People voted to, " Permit registered and unregistered patients and primary caregivers to assert medical reasons for using marijuana as a defense to any prosecution involving marijuana."

 

They studied the MMMA, but couldn't figure out that if each person is allowed to possess 12 plants how many plants can two people have? They can make fake IDs on their computer, but they couldn't multiply 2 times 12 and get 24. So they think your 21 or 22 plants between 2 people might be too much.

 

They know that the cops had to use a battering ram to knock your door down, but they're not sure if it was an enclosed locked facility.

 

I want to know how much money We the People are paying this Insane Assclown Posse.

 

Bob, I am so sorry that you guys are going through this mess. I know it can never be made right. But I'm sure you will be free soon. You have the law on your side and more importantly you have a good lawyer.

 

Good luck, stay strong and know that we are all pulling for you.

 

Thanks for the reply i think are Lawyer is Great and the cost so far 300,000 dollars but who knows for sure they the county will never tell us that

[master.caregiver]

(e) A registered primary caregiver may receive compensation for costs associated with assisting a registered qualifying patient in the medical use of marihuana. Any such compensation shall not constitute the sale of controlled substances.

 

the law states A patient, with medical use, there is no possesive wording -his/her, the, registered to him, - the act is the registration that links all caregivers and patients, IMO, any and all cardholder to cardholder transactions within weight limits and plant counts are legal under Michigans Act.

 

i think this is what they were saying

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(yi3fbbrr3z01nf25i2rut445))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-333-26424

 

333.26424 Qualifying patient or primary caregiver; arrest, prosecution, or penalty

 

(b) A primary caregiver who has been issued and possesses a registry identification card shall not be subject to arrest, prosecution, or penalty in any manner, or denied any right or privilege, including but not limited to civil penalty or disciplinary action by a business or occupational or professional licensing board or bureau, for assisting a qualifying patient to whom he or she is connected through the department's registration process with the medical use of marihuana in accordance with this act, provided that the primary caregiver possesses an amount of marihuana that does not exceed: