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Rev. Terry Jones Burning The Quran


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So, a Church of approximately 50 members lead by Reverend Terry Jones thinks it a good idea to

burn copies of the Quran on Saturday 9/11?

My brain went numb over this one.

Is it a matter of freedom of speech, religious freedom. a publicity stunt... WTH?

 

I'm not looking to start a religious battle here, just wondering what others might think about this issue.

I feel they are not considering the full ramifications of their proposed actions.

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Honestly I think anyone publicly burning ANY religions books is a little foolish. It doesn't matter if it's The Quran, The Holy Bible or what ever your belief. This type of behavior seems to carry a message of hate for another human being who just has a different cultural background and belief system. Just like saying all Marijuana users are druggies and lazy stoners---NOT true. Not all people who pratice Islam are looking to blow something or someone up either.

I never realized it before, but Islam is the 2nd largest religion in the world.

Check out this pie chart---Religions of the world

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Went to college in Gainesville. Great town, great university ( football team ain't to shabby) really good people and one idiot. Just read on CNN preacher was kicked out of church he started in Germany for using funds for personal expenses. just saying what and where. Have no personal knowledge.

 

This country was founded and populated by citizens searching for religous freedom. What kind of idiot thinks that publicly burning ANY religous text is OK?

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I heard a bit about this on the radio over the past couple of days. I am a bit torn on it. This is an interesting dichotomy. On the one hand I completely support his right to do so, as an expression of free speech and possibly even his religion. On the other I don't like the idea of burning any books, religious or otherwise.

 

The real issue here comes when you ask yourself why there has been so much outrage over this being done. Most of the worries I have heard expressed didn't revolve around the speech or books, but over the reprisals folks are afraid of if he does this. Perhaps, this is the reason this preacher has made this such a publicity stunt, to show the differences in the way offensive acts are handled by mainstream media and the populace?

 

All of the pleas I have read and heard revolve around not antagonizing the Muslim people, after all we have seen the reaction to a simple cartoon in a newspaper.

 

Like I said I am torn on this one, and frankly will sit on the sidelines and watch to see if this actually happens.

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Rev if we don't stop this either you will be accused of being a liberal or I will be accused of being a conservative. :lol: Once again I agree. It is a tough one. On one hand I hate that Islam is becoming the one religion that you can't criticize because they might retaliate with violence. And the idiot preacher has the right to make a statement in whatever creative way he wants to. On the other hand what kind of a statement are you really making? Burning a book does not destroy those ideas. It is really nothing more than a thinly veiled attempt at hate speech.

 

The other issue right now is the Ground Zero/Burlington Coat Factory, Islamic Community Center. Again I am conflicted. On one hand they own the building and the very first amendment to the constitution gives them the right to do what they want. And if we are really concerned about what is near what some are referring to as "hallowed ground" why have we not heard any outrage over the strip clubs and sex shops that are even closer? On the other hand one of the things Islam does is build huge mosque on conquered ground. Now it has become a huge political issue. If it is built we will look weak if it is not build we are religiously intolerant. If it was just quietly built there really would have been no issue.

 

Of course if it was up to me we would burn all religious text. Religion and intolerance is responsible for most wars and has suppressed scientific breakthroughs at every opportunity. Just read the Quran and Bible and you will see that not only have we evolved morally beyond these bronze age text but you don't have to dig very deep to see their mythology came from a common source with many common stories.

 

Imagine there's no heaven

It's easy if you try

No hell below us

Above us only sky

Imagine all the people

Living for today...

 

John Lennon

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Went to college in Gainesville. Great town, great university ( football team ain't to shabby) really good people and one idiot. Just read on CNN preacher was kicked out of church he started in Germany for using funds for personal expenses. just saying what and where. Have no personal knowledge.

 

This country was founded and populated by citizens searching for religous freedom. What kind of idiot thinks that publicly burning ANY religous text is OK?

Our nation was founded on seeking religious freedom.

 

If someone wants to pray to their pecan tree in their backyard - that's fine with me. Just be respectful of others.

 

All Muslims are not radicals.

 

Just like all whites, blacks, browns, yellows, whatever your nationality, religious persuasion, etc...are not radicals.

 

There are nuts in every walk of life.

 

It's a shame that nuts like this reverend/pastor are even getting any airtime or publicity.

 

He's a joke and so are most like him.

 

 

Mizerman :thumbsu:

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Atheist, I don't worry about those labels, they have drifted so far from their original meanings that not even the most fringe elements of the liberal or conservative sides fit the definitions.

 

We are in agreement on many issues, because we look passed the tired old ideologies and try to use a bit of common sense and common courtesy. The best part is that both of those characteristics carry over into areas where we disagree, and I respect that about you.

 

Let's face it the one thing we both have in common is we are Americans who love our country and what it is based on, now what it is becoming.

 

As always I wish you well.

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it looks like he will call it off, he says they are going to move the new site for the mosque near the WTC site, but the imam says there is no such deal.

The NYC mosque still has lots of other things to work out, they need to raise the funds, they need to buy the 2 other properties that are needed for the proposed building... and all of that is if they can get through the zoning and permit stages of a project of that magnitude. If they can get through all of the hoops in front of em, let them build it. Hell I don't care if they put a digital billboard on the outside of the building that broadcasts nothing but radical fundamentalist hate rhetoric, they have the right to do so.

 

I just don't want any complaints when I hire somebody to sculpt a statue of Christ on a horse trampling Mohamed... (I am somewhat kidding about the statue, hyperbole is a beautiful thing, no?)

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All Muslims are not radicals.

 

 

Ask any Muslim, even moderate ones, what the penalty for apostasy is. I think most people would consider that answer pretty radical.

 

I don't know how we as a species can ever find a peaceful society under the religious teachings of any of the major religions. Maybe Buddhism is the exception?

 

RevThad, I like your reasoned approach to these issues. If I ever get to one of these protest I would like to say hi.

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  • 6 months later...

I mean really...Who cares...I know we live in a touchy feely everyone has to like everyone...For a military officer to have to take time away fom actual important stuff to condemn it shows the power of PCism...PERIOD! It's a book..Just because they are fanatical about it over seas we now need to apologize? But then on the other hand it does kinda show the reality of religion and the gang mentality those who to some degree many who are involved take it rofl..It is just amusing to me to watch this as news...So many more important stories on the news. I mean for real Barry Bonds lied to congress possibly its as if an earthquake happened which caused a nuclear spill!!! Or like the weather just keeps getting wierder and wierder and people chose to believe that it is something we can fix by throwing money at it and working harder to NOT polute whn in reality its just the 20012 cosmic alignment effecting the earth.

 

Whew anyways long story short who f ing cares for real? My kids got sick of a Barney Book last year so we used it to start a fire...Lock me up then! Even if deep down you believe in a god, a book is just a book...How can you care about it like that when god is in you? Right? :P rofl w/e

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It is interesting that a man in the USA who has exercised his constitutional right to burn books, flags or whatever, is criticized. But on the other hand those that are killing because of a book, are being coddled. IMO opinion hate speech is free speech, by taking the right to hate speech away we do nothing but hide the enemy from us. The biggest haters have the biggest mouth, making investigations easy, silencing does not end hate, just hides it. Right now pompous Harry Reid is considering changes to the first amendment, that will be us playing right into their hands.

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Went to college in Gainesville. Great town, great university ( football team ain't to shabby) really good people and one idiot. Just read on CNN preacher was kicked out of church he started in Germany for using funds for personal expenses. just saying what and where. Have no personal knowledge.

 

This country was founded and populated by citizens searching for religous freedom. What kind of idiot thinks that publicly burning ANY religous text is OK?

Funny thing that Religous Freedom myth. Catholicism was not even tolerated in this here country till after the Spanish American War. Thats when the new entity of the USA aquired its first additional 'Conquest' of North America. the Florida [Flower Land] Penninsula, Cuba [Lost] , the Phillipines and Puerto Rico [Rich Port], which were all Catholic and Spanish Speaking territories.

Edited by solabeirtan
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It is interesting that a man in the USA who has exercised his constitutional right to burn books, flags or whatever, is criticized. But on the other hand those that are killing because of a book, are being coddled. IMO opinion hate speech is free speech, by taking the right to hate speech away we do nothing but hide the enemy from us. The biggest haters have the biggest mouth, making investigations easy, silencing does not end hate, just hides it. Right now pompous Harry Reid is considering changes to the first amendment, that will be us playing right into their hands.

 

You make a week argument for ignorance. The Constitution was written 250 years ago. At that time there were only 13 colonies. It has been 'Patched' several times to account for certain changes in Human Evolution. Obviously Free Speech was a concept not thoroughly understood. More like a conceptual thing. As well either was 'Freedom', 'Property Rights', Corporate Law, Capitalism, Representative Government, and a few other things...

Edited by solabeirtan
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Freedom of religion - oh boy.. How about freedom of anything? I disagree in this mans choice. however one can argue about everyone up in arms about it. How do you think this country was founded? by a cross on a stick and various so called Holy men coming to this land that was inhabited by cultures for thousands of yrs before these peoples arrivals and with that cross created a genocide of a complete culture!! All in the name of GOD! are you kidding me. To this very day you hear people complaining about the muslims this, blacks that hispanics this n that etc.. But the only people that deserve to complain at all about any of us being here are the American Indian peoples. Their religion was seen to be savage and that of the devil from the first moment immigrants landed here.. children beaten because of their teachings their grandparents and ancestors taught them from birth, their sacred lands bulldosed for our cities and concrete jungles, forced into churches, forced to change names and convert, forced to relinquish all culture, teaching, land etc to the white war lords. I mean they were treated WORSE in many aspects then the blacks. Its just not well heard about. Well if it had happened to you or your family youd know the persecutions, the wrongs etc done.. Freedoms freedoms of religions.. what about theirs? Hmmm where was their freedom of rights? freedom of religions, freedoms of land and life? Where are their soo called freedoms now even today? They werent allowed to have them and to this very day they are still persecuted in ways we never see since unlike the blacks and hispanics its not widespread known. So essentially this country was based and founded on hypocrites and all they stand for. For they came here for freedom of religions ect at the cost of an entire cultures freedoms!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! freedom of religions.. bah.. now moving on to the flip side of it all.. sure if we have freedoms to espress religions then why have they taken the pledge of aligence out of school we all remember every morning that routine? why then are they taking the christ out of christmas after all it was after his birth. i mean there are lists of contradictions on this subject all over the place and right before our eyes. Let him burn it.. look how many white prominent politicians that have run our country etc were are and have been part of the KKK... they burned crosses hung people.. look at the people who burn the flag rip apart bibles in front of religious sects or protests, look at why they doo over seas setting fire to our flags and pictures of our politicians (which i honestly dont mind set fire to them let the mfers burn if thats what you wish) But get real.. this crap happens all the time everywhere in many differents aspects of religions and beliefs.. all i can say is you have your boook, you have your teachings and beliefs etc.. they cannot burn that on tv let them symbolically burn it but its not different from all the other crap going on in various cultures various times and religions.. all i can say is get over it.. there is worse crap happening all around out then whining about some mans stupid choice and interpretation of his so called rights of freedom.. peace and love to all!

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Freedom of religion - oh boy.. How about freedom of anything? I disagree in this mans choice. however one can argue about everyone up in arms about it. How do you think this country was founded? by a cross on a stick and various so called Holy men coming to this land that was inhabited by cultures for thousands of yrs before these peoples arrivals and with that cross created a genocide of a complete culture!! All in the name of GOD! are you kidding me. To this very day you hear people complaining about the muslims this, blacks that hispanics this n that etc.. But the only people that deserve to complain at all about any of us being here are the American Indian peoples. Their religion was seen to be savage and that of the devil from the first moment immigrants landed here.. children beaten because of their teachings their grandparents and ancestors taught them from birth, their sacred lands bulldosed for our cities and concrete jungles, forced into churches, forced to change names and convert, forced to relinquish all culture, teaching, land etc to the white war lords. I mean they were treated WORSE in many aspects then the blacks. Its just not well heard about. Well if it had happened to you or your family youd know the persecutions, the wrongs etc done.. Freedoms freedoms of religions.. what about theirs? Hmmm where was their freedom of rights? freedom of religions, freedoms of land and life? Where are their soo called freedoms now even today? They werent allowed to have them and to this very day they are still persecuted in ways we never see since unlike the blacks and hispanics its not widespread known. So essentially this country was based and founded on hypocrites and all they stand for. For they came here for freedom of religions ect at the cost of an entire cultures freedoms!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! freedom of religions.. bah.. now moving on to the flip side of it all.. sure if we have freedoms to espress religions then why have they taken the pledge of aligence out of school we all remember every morning that routine? why then are they taking the christ out of christmas after all it was after his birth. i mean there are lists of contradictions on this subject all over the place and right before our eyes. Let him burn it.. look how many white prominent politicians that have run our country etc were are and have been part of the KKK... they burned crosses hung people.. look at the people who burn the flag rip apart bibles in front of religious sects or protests, look at why they doo over seas setting fire to our flags and pictures of our politicians (which i honestly dont mind set fire to them let the mfers burn if thats what you wish) But get real.. this crap happens all the time everywhere in many differents aspects of religions and beliefs.. all i can say is you have your boook, you have your teachings and beliefs etc.. they cannot burn that on tv let them symbolically burn it but its not different from all the other crap going on in various cultures various times and religions.. all i can say is get over it.. there is worse crap happening all around out then whining about some mans stupid choice and interpretation of his so called rights of freedom.. peace and love to all!

 

PS just so people dont take it wrong when i said "(which i honestly dont mind set fire to them let the mfers burn if thats what you wish)" after the comment of the burning of the flag and politicians pictures.. well i meant the politicans pictures (not the flag).. go ahead i dont care i cant tell ya what ive done to pictures of them myself lmao ;) ...

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The basics of the constitution are still valid as written. It would appear the founders knew more 250 years ago then some do now. And I find it amazing that some who would complain about their rights to grow, are in fact ignorant as to how one loses said rights.

 

Let me see, was their hate speech and religious persecution 250 years ago? Yes there was.

 

Is there hate speech today? Yes

 

Is there religious persecution today? Yes

 

The Muslims we speak of are using a ancient mentality, kill because of a book!

 

So what part of evolution do you speak?

 

At some point certain people will wonder what happened, while being ignorant as to how they gave it away.

 

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

 

Benjamin Franklin

 

Freedom of speech means hearing things that make you sick at times. If you don't like it, don't listen or watch. Do I advocate burning holy books or enticing simple minds, no I do not, but I do support the rights to free speech. You go ahead and let your government put more restrictions on your words, but don't appear surprised when they ask for more. This is simple history proven over and over again, next we will hear hate thoughts being illegal. Anybody know how Chavez took over in Venezuela? Pay attention!

 

 

 

You make a week argument for ignorance. The Constitution was written 250 years ago. At that time there were only 13 colonies. It has been 'Patched' several times to account for certain changes in Human Evolution. Obviously Free Speech was a concept not thoroughly understood. More like a conceptual thing. As well either was 'Freedom', 'Property Rights', Corporate Law, Representative Government, and a few other things...

Edited by nthlghts
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I don't know how we as a species can ever find a peaceful society under the religious teachings of any of the major religions. Maybe Buddhism is the exception?

 

.

 

 

:goodjob: I must honestly say i agree with you on this. I was raised by one strict religion but upon growing opened my eyes to the vast truths out there and opened my mind to the beliefs of all. How ironic how every religion has its common basics so many things that relate together yet be sooo very different.. either way .. here is how i see it in my opinion.. Sure the bible is "Gods word" but lets look closer. Who actually WROTE the bible. Human Man. And whats humans biggest trait. Exaggeration and contortion for the benfit of those closest to the beliefs. Essentially Im sure the idea began heavenly but upon leaving it in the hands of humans with all their flaws, greeds, misinterpretations struggles for power etc essentially it has since been twisted and contorted in ways none of us will ever know. i believe in the base foundations and truths of religions as a whole but all the spin off crap is a fabrication of humans hand and imaginations. that is why i no longer adhere to the close teachings of the bible or any of the written words.. i do not adhere to the fact that a god will abolish you if you do not worship him in a church... seems to me thats humans way to go about things.. I personally have found that the Native American Base religious teachings are what seems to fit my personal beliefs to the fullest.. that and yes you are right the buddists have many great teachings.. Ive pondered many times how since ive noticed religions are as much of a fad as the recent fashion style and anyone can fabricate it how amazing it would be to found a religion based on the good points of every offshoot religion out there put all the good teachings only together and viola.. a utopian society.. but nothing but a mere dream.. most religions, and i know many arent going to like what im about to say including my own father forgive but this is just how i personally see it.., but most religions are just an easy way for weak minded people to grasp ahold of things they fear, do not nor ever will understand and cannot explain. its easier to give an identity to and to fabricate a format of rules using its personification then to adhere to the basis of the truths. Also an easy way for some to hold sway over power and money in the name of the holy. And this cannot be argued since its been done since the dawn of time and even shown in history books. But all in all.. its something as humans we have to have.. without the idea we are nothing but as was stated in the book.. lost sheep wandering around without cause. I find that most organized religions are nothing more then the exact mirror of what the governmental systems are just on a different forefront.. Peace and love to all!!

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With Rights come Responsibility.

 

I support his right to burn the Quran, just as i support the Right to Yell Fire in a crowded theatre.

 

O wait, speech is free until it physically harms the public. O yea.....

 

Dead kids in theatres, dead soldiers in Afghanistan.

 

Just because you CAN do something, doesnt me you Should.

 

There is a thing called cognizant damage.

 

Did this Terry Jones Know and Understand that by using his free speech it would cause chaos, death and destruction to innocent people?

 

 

 

Back in 1919, Oliver Wendell Holmes, associate Supreme Court Justice, made this saying popular…..

 

The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man falsely shouting fire in a theater and causing a panic. [...] The question in every case is whether the words used are used in such circumstances and are of such a nature as to create a clear and present danger that they will bring about the substantive evils that Congress has a right to prevent.

 

The First Amendment holding in Schenck(previous case) was later overturned by Brandenburg v. Ohio, which limited the scope of banned speech to that which would be directed to and likely to incite imminent lawless action (e.g. a riot).

 

 

 

Sooooooooooo,

 

This Terry guy is likely guilty and not protected by free speech in this circumstance and should be thrown in jail for purposefully causing the death of US soldiers.

 

Read up on constitutional law... it does the body good.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandenburg_v._Ohio

Edited by CherryCrush
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Yelling fire in a theater is a direct action that caused group to respond to an emergency. There was no emergency, no direct action required in the burning of a book, no emergency. Simple minded people who riot or kill are responsible for their own actions period end of story! Make excuses for them now and more excuses will follow, new religions will pop up and seek this legal pathway. This bulls..t that he made me do it, what he said made me do it, oh and that made me do it, all excuses. Punish those responsible harshly and this will stop, continue to make excuses for them and get more excuses. On a side note I am very serious on my punishment of violent offenders and those that put liberty at risk, not so much on other things.

 

Allow me to start, the following text is a hypothetical situation.

 

The Quran has many passages that denounce Christianity and call for my death. I am deeply offended by this and I am calling for the death of followers and preachers of the text. Do you believe the constitution should be changed to accommodate me, banning the text of the Quran?

 

This is a foolish path to follow. We cant save everyone or prevent every donkey from going on at the mouth or burning a book. What can be done is the public majority can condemn these actions and punish the killers. Control what you can not what you cannot.

 

 

 

With Rights come Responsibility.

 

I support his right to burn the Quran, just as i support the Right to Yell Fire in a crowded theatre.

 

O wait, speech is free until it physically harms the public. O yea.....

 

Dead kids in theatres, dead soldiers in Afghanistan.

 

Just because you CAN do something, doesnt me you Should.

 

There is a thing called cognizant damage.

 

Did this Terry Jones Know and Understand that by using his free speech it would cause chaos, death and destruction to innocent people?

 

 

 

Back in 1919, Oliver Wendell Holmes, associate Supreme Court Justice, made this saying popular…..

 

The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man falsely shouting fire in a theater and causing a panic. [...] The question in every case is whether the words used are used in such circumstances and are of such a nature as to create a clear and present danger that they will bring about the substantive evils that Congress has a right to prevent.

 

The First Amendment holding in Schenck(previous case) was later overturned by Brandenburg v. Ohio, which limited the scope of banned speech to that which would be directed to and likely to incite imminent lawless action (e.g. a riot).

 

 

 

Sooooooooooo,

 

This Terry guy is likely guilty and not protected by free speech in this circumstance and should be thrown in jail for purposefully causing the death of US soldiers.

 

Read up on constitutional law... it does the body good.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandenburg_v._Ohio

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Both the rioters and the person responsible for inciting said 'riot' should be held responsible.

 

PERIOD.

 

Tis the constitutional law.

 

One does not excuse the other.

 

Jones precognizant knowledge that it would cause death makes it not covered by the first ammendment.

Edited by CherryCrush
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