Our Law Is In Grave Danger.

[+RevThad]

Sometimes a little regression is appropriate too. As far as being progressive, one must also ask; "Progressing towards what?".

 

Is out meat and produce really healthier these days? With all of the growth hormones, and chemicals that are added to keep stuff fresher longer?

 

You mentioned slavery and indentured servitude, don't you realize we are headed directly back down that road, with our government going to be the owners of the slaves and servants? It is stringing the people of this nation out much like a pimp does to his whores, getting them hooked then forcing them to submit in order to get their fix. This one of the ways the government has been increasing its power for decades.

 

The recent affronts to public initiatives and laws passed by the people, should be more than enough evidence that the government thinks the roles have been reversed. They think we are here to work for their goals and ambitions, and that our goals and ambitions just get in the way of theirs.

 

Taking it one step further, and only because it is recent news. Look at the outcry from the federal government over a publicity stunt of a pastor attempting a publicity stunt. Everybody in the administration contacted him, made a statement to the news, and plead for it not to occur. Yet they remain silent as some of their bigger donors do the exact same thing and worse on a weekly and daily basis to peaceful religious types (see Saudi Arabia and their sweeps for religious paraphernalia).

 

The government has forgotten that it is there to serve at our will, to protect our chosen ways of life. Not to control our ways of life.

 

Sorry about the rant my friend. Just a lot going on in my head at the moment.

[+420Atheist]

No don't be sorry. It is what makes our country great that we can have reasoned and logical discussion on these issue. I don't disagree with your points. "Progressive towards what?" Is a valid question.

 

I won't say our meat is perfect but before Teddy they were using preservatives that could actually kill you over a few years.

 

And yes we are going down the same indentured servitude road with corporations having all the power and paying less and less each year. "Wage slave" is becoming more and more a reality. I think one thing Ron Paul is correct about is both parties are to blame for this happening. Clinton said NAFTA would have been signed in by Bush anyway but screw that lame excuse. He should have let Bush do it then. And who is he fooling he said several times he was for it? Still we are no where near where we were back in the 19th century. If you get to the UP check out the ghost town of Fayetteville. Truly a company town where you would owe your soul to the company store. If you like history they smelted iron ore down into pig iron then shipped to the factors. A great place to visit.

 

I do get the point but I think it will turn around. People are demanding jobs come back to the US. Obama is trying to close the corporate tax breaks for shipping jobs overseas. If it is cheaper to manufacture in the US it will come back. However we have to progress beyond manufacturing to a more sustainable economy. Despite what some believe you can't have economic growth that last forever. We have been able to do what we have done because of cheap oil to move goods all over the world. Though you and I probably will not have to worry about that running out someone will someday.

 

You know I am conflicted on the Quran burning/ground zero mosque. I agree about the hypocrisy of not speaking out over the religious intolerance of our allies in the middle east. Heck I am angry we are allies with countries like China with such horrible human rights violations. But I can't agree that because they are intolerant then we should be. I have heard that argument used about building the mosque and I have to laugh that people think we should fight intolerance by being intolerant. We have lost 4000 troops to operation Iraqi Freedom. Those are Muslim people who we are fighting and dieing for their freedoms and now we are telling them they are not free in the US to worship on land they own? That does not seem right.

 

Again we agree that governments only valid reason to exist is to protect the citizens. To protect us from things like:

foreign invaders

terrorist

criminals who would victimize others

and the one we probably have less agreement on, corporations who use there power over us to victimize us

 

Anything else is not a valid reason for government to act. If there is no one victim there is no crime. Society can't be a victim of me using cannabis in my home. Society can't be a victim of me giving a girl over the age of 18 some money to be my very close friend. Society can't be a victim of me for riding my motorcycle without a helmet or even choosing what blood pressure medicine I want to try.

 

There is a fine line between protecting the citizens and being safety Nazis and I don't always know where to draw it. In some areas we are getting better like having the freedom to us MMJ. In other areas it is getting worse like corporations lowering wages to the point where the middle class is decimated and there is little opportunity for someone in the lower classes to find a job that will allow them to move up.

[+Silverblue]

We still have slavery, it's cleverly disguised. We don't have safe food, see the recalls of food, medicines, toys, and other products, our air is polluted, we drink bottled or filtered water, they'd rather sell that than clean it up, they're the ones who polluted it anyway, and I wonder if we really know what's in everything we buy, consume, and grow. Despite labeling and safety measures, companies still do what they want, we just don't know what they're hiding and even in some natural products there's stuff that doesn't belong there and often what should be there isn't. The government is unresponsive to the peoples' needs, though they pretend they are all ears. GREED has infested this beautiful world that's deteriorating daily before our eyes. They wanna control nature, they wanna control the masses, and they won't stop till they're put in check, or we all die in some global disaster, natural or man made. Nature is fighting back, the people are fighting back, we outnumber them. I lost hope many years ago, that doesn't mean I won't keep fighting, despite being worn out. All I've seen is constant struggle, despite a few shining moments of short-lived victories; we're still fighting for our rights.

 

Our law is in grave danger, that I agree. If the repubs take over, we're in for an even bigger fight. What has changed since the elections, really? What has Obama done, really? He's still holding on to some very bad policies. What promises has he kept? Whether the repubs are out of power or in, they're still a powerful force that must be diluted. People in power forget why they're there and sooner or later it seems most of them get corrupted and stay that way, regardless what party they're affiliated with. They have been tampering with the laws every chance they get. Many with common sense will never run for office, because they know they'll get bogged down in the system, entangled in a nightmare of bureaucracy and ridiculous rules that do no good for the People they represent. The whole system seems to be broken, from the top down.

 

I guess my only comfort that may be the last glimmer of hope I have, which is the knowledge that, while it could be so much better, I know it could also be much worse.

 

Sb

[+420Atheist]

We still have slavery, it's cleverly disguised. We don't have safe food, see the recalls of food, medicines, toys, and other products, our air is polluted, we drink bottled or filtered water, they'd rather sell that than clean it up, they're the ones who polluted it anyway, and I wonder if we really know what's in everything we buy, consume, and grow.

Sb

 

Remember the context of my post. It was discussing the way things are now compared to what they were before the progressive republican Teddy Roosevelt came along. Now we have toy recalls because government agencies are checking for lead paint. Even 50 years ago no one was even checking toys for safety. Compared to many countries and what we ourselves had 100 years ago our food supply is kept very safe by gov inspections. Tape water consistently test better than bottled water. That was a myth the French sold us with Perrier water. Things are not perfect but they ain't all that bad either.

 

GREED has infested this beautiful world that's deteriorating daily before our eyes.

 

I agree. Never in our nations history has there been such a redistribution of wealth from the poor and middle class to the rich.

 

What has Obama done, really? He's still holding on to some very bad policies. What promises has he kept?

 

In reality Obama has done a lot. We can rightly debate how much of it is good. Health care reform and the most sweeping bank reform legislation since the great depression are two things. I admit to being disappointed that the health care reform was done behind closed doors.

 

We voted for change but who's responsibility is change? We voted him in and sat on our hands and did nothing. While the teabaggers got out there and fought against their own best interest and for the interest of the pharmaceutical, insurance, and health care industries. While they are able to get 1000 people to rally for almost anything we can't muster a 100 people to a MMJ rally and that is something that effects us and is in our best interest. But it is not just the MMJ community. We should have protested in masses over the wall street reform to have our voices heard. We should have demanded that executives who cheated their clients by selling them mortgage backed securities that were bundled the way they were to fail and then the executives took out credit default swaps effectively betting against the clients they sold the junk to in the first place. We should have demanded those executives pay back the money and spend time in prison for fraud. Instead Bush bailed them out and Obama did not have the backing to stand up to the bonus' that were given because of this absurd notion that "government should not be telling business who to give bonus to." That is true only if you don't take taxpayer funded welfare. Special interest is doing great at rallying their troops but no one is rallying the lower and middle class together who are being adversely effected by the special interest.

[+Silverblue]

Remember the context of my post. It was discussing the way things are now compared to what they were before the progressive republican Teddy Roosevelt came along. Now we have toy recalls because government agencies are checking for lead paint. Even 50 years ago no one was even checking toys for safety. Compared to many countries and what we ourselves had 100 years ago our food supply is kept very safe by gov inspections. Tape water consistently test better than bottled water. That was a myth the French sold us with Perrier water. Things are not perfect but they ain't all that bad either.

 

 

 

I agree. Never in our nations history has there been such a redistribution of wealth from the poor and middle class to the rich.

 

 

 

In reality Obama has done a lot. We can rightly debate how much of it is good. Health care reform and the most sweeping bank reform legislation since the great depression are two things. I admit to being disappointed that the health care reform was done behind closed doors.

 

We voted for change but who's responsibility is change? We voted him in and sat on our hands and did nothing. While the teabaggers got out there and fought against their own best interest and for the interest of the pharmaceutical, insurance, and health care industries. While they are able to get 1000 people to rally for almost anything we can't muster a 100 people to a MMJ rally and that is something that effects us and is in our best interest. But it is not just the MMJ community. We should have protested in masses over the wall street reform to have our voices heard. We should have demanded that executives who cheated their clients by selling them mortgage backed securities that were bundled the way they were to fail and then the executives took out credit default swaps effectively betting against the clients they sold the junk to in the first place. We should have demanded those executives pay back the money and spend time in prison for fraud. Instead Bush bailed them out and Obama did not have the backing to stand up to the bonus' that were given because of this absurd notion that "government should not be telling business who to give bonus to." That is true only if you don't take taxpayer funded welfare. Special interest is doing great at rallying their troops but no one is rallying the lower and middle class together who are being adversely effected by the special interest.

Good points! Thank you for replying and explaining, I really appreciate it, thanks for reminding me and all of us about these things.

 

Sb