Drug Busts..

[bobandtorey]

But Brother, they are only going after criminals.

 

I completely agree with you on this one. They have just put this man in one hell of a position, he now has a public record of him being arrested on drug charges, his home is now known by anybody with a computer, television, or newspaper, and the thieves (not the LEO ones) all know that he will at the very least have meds in his home.

 

These glory seeking news hounds are putting patients at risk, by denying them their meds and making them the targets of would be thugs. A complete violation of a patient's right to privacy, and a clear violation of the law.

 

thats right he can never grow their again just like us we had to move and lost are house because it was all over the news we were afraid to stay their

[+RevThad]

So he is now charged - as he did not SECURE his outdoor grow

 

"

"If he had the plants growing inside his house and secure, we wouldn't be having this conversation because he does have a card," Miarka said. "But I don't think out in the open qualifies under the law."

 

Miarka said some plants were more than six feet tall.

 

Police said under Michigan Department of Community Health administration rules, a qualifying patient can keep 12 plants in an enclosed, locked facility, defined as a "closet, room, or other enclosed area equipped with locks or other security devices that permit access only by a registered primary caregiver or registered qualifying patient."

 

 

 

From The Detroit News: http://www.detnews.com/article/20100916/METRO02/9160476/1361/Medical-marijuana-user-charged-with-growing-plants-in-yard#ixzz0zk2Y2iyN

 

Gee - four foot high fences, what was his idea of "secure"?

 

-DN

 

What level of security do you feel is necessary? Should I be forced to put iron bars on all of the windows of the building I have my grow room in? Wouldn't a fenced in yard be considered "an other enclosed area" and a lock on the gate would make it a locked enclosed area? Or are prisoners that are in prison yards without a roof not in an enclosed facility?

 

I keep seeing this argument that somebody could easily get in and gain access, the same holds true for most places, locks are designed to keep honest people honest. One could easily break a patio door to get into a home and proceed to access the plants. Using nuance to arrest somebody is garbage, if the police felt that it was simply a matter of the secured facility, they could have warned him to move them inside without destroying the plants or this man's life.

 

So much for the presumption of innocence...

[roomtogrow]

one like this in barry county where the guy had 4 of his outside to spray for mites

police seen them ,took those and the other 8 , seems ridicules i could see if they were

planted out side but the card holding patient had them in small containers ,as it stands prosucutor

has no charges as of yet but 3 of the plants were hanging curing ,the patient has no money for an a lawyer

and needs his meds,what the first step for him ?

[The Digital Nomad]

What level of security do you feel is necessary? Should I be forced to put iron bars on all of the windows of the building I have my grow room in? Wouldn't a fenced in yard be considered "an other enclosed area" and a lock on the gate would make it a locked enclosed area? Or are prisoners that are in prison yards without a roof not in an enclosed facility?

 

I keep seeing this argument that somebody could easily get in and gain access, the same holds true for most places, locks are designed to keep honest people honest. One could easily break a patio door to get into a home and proceed to access the plants. Using nuance to arrest somebody is garbage, if the police felt that it was simply a matter of the secured facility, they could have warned him to move them inside without destroying the plants or this man's life.

 

So much for the presumption of innocence...

 

four foot high fence is not even in the debate of 'secure, enclosed'

secured and enclosed is not a nuance, it has to be secured from those not legal to access it, it has to be enclosed so it cannot be 'stolen'. Again, I have been around outdoor grows, I know of one with 20 plants, 16' tall, that passed (uninvited) inspection by local LEO. It has been months since they came around. They liked his 16' high chainlink fence, locked gate, signage, and privacy fence. The enclosure had chainlink fencing on top - 'enclosed'.

 

Outdoor grows can work, but this guy took no measures or cares that kids from the neighborhood could have jumped the four foot fence at night and abuse his meds.

 

-DN

[+RevThad]

Again, after seeing the photos of the plants, it is obvious that they had been there for awhile. If there was an issue why not warn the "legal patient" that his enclosure was not satisfactory, why blast it all over the news? Why ruin this man's life and reputation over something as simple as your 4 foot high fence is not adequate, remedy the situation or we will.

 

What you are suggesting is that because others are dishonest and have no respect for other people's property or rights, the guy needs to possibly face 4 years in prison and a $20k fine, not to mention court costs, his reputation, possibly his home, and his sense of security (which he has already lost even if found innocent).

 

How can any of that be seen as justice? Especially when considered against the declarations of the law? You know the ones talking about trying to prevent patients from being subject to arrest, and promoting the health and well being of those same folks? I guess that only applies in off election years?

[peanutbutter]

four foot high fence is not even in the debate of 'secure, enclosed'

secured and enclosed is not a nuance, it has to be secured from those not legal to access it, it has to be enclosed so it cannot be 'stolen'. Again, I have been around outdoor grows, I know of one with 20 plants, 16' tall, that passed (uninvited) inspection by local LEO. It has been months since they came around. They liked his 16' high chainlink fence, locked gate, signage, and privacy fence. The enclosure had chainlink fencing on top - 'enclosed'.

 

Outdoor grows can work, but this guy took no measures or cares that kids from the neighborhood could have jumped the four foot fence at night and abuse his meds.

 

-DN

 

So then the standard for the outdoor grow is to have a cover and out of sight?

[The Digital Nomad]

Again, after seeing the photos of the plants, it is obvious that they had been there for awhile. If there was an issue why not warn the "legal patient" that his enclosure was not satisfactory, why blast it all over the news? Why ruin this man's life and reputation over something as simple as your 4 foot high fence is not adequate, remedy the situation or we will.

 

What you are suggesting is that because others are dishonest and have no respect for other people's property or rights, the guy needs to possibly face 4 years in prison and a $20k fine, not to mention court costs, his reputation, possibly his home, and his sense of security (which he has already lost even if found innocent).

 

How can any of that be seen as justice? Especially when considered against the declarations of the law? You know the ones talking about trying to prevent patients from being subject to arrest, and promoting the health and well being of those same folks? I guess that only applies in off election years?

 

Who was dishonest?

Neighbor saw plants and called the cops, cops came, saw plants unsecured, and likely no indication it was an attempt at a legal grow.

Respect? Did the homeowner respect his neighbors and kids in the neighborhood? If he had respect for the law, he would have made SOME effort to secure his grow eh? Cops dishonest? Were they supposed to leave it, post a business card "hey get back to me!", and hope the person was not an illegal grower that will ditch the evidence when they come back?

 

All the work I do to educate people, visiting their homes, or speaking at the public meetings - I meet plenty of people who take every effort to understand the law and follow it - before they grow. What do we do about those that choose to ignore the law, or play ignorance?

"Afraid to go to a public meeting for information?" - Then you better not grow, because you'll really have something to be afraid of.

 

Maybe the grower didn't care, and now he knows why he should have cared before.

 

All this proves - you should get educated about the MMMP before you proceed.

 

-DN

[peanutbutter]

Who was dishonest?

Neighbor saw plants and called the cops, cops came, saw plants unsecured, and likely no indication it was an attempt at a legal grow.

Respect? Did the homeowner respect his neighbors and kids in the neighborhood? If he had respect for the law, he would have made SOME effort to secure his grow eh? Cops dishonest? Were they supposed to leave it, post a business card "hey get back to me!", and hope the person was not an illegal grower that will ditch the evidence when they come back?

 

All the work I do to educate people, visiting their homes, or speaking at the public meetings - I meet plenty of people who take every effort to understand the law and follow it - before they grow. What do we do about those that choose to ignore the law, or play ignorance?

"Afraid to go to a public meeting for information?" - Then you better not grow, because you'll really have something to be afraid of.

 

Maybe the grower didn't care, and now he knows why he should have cared before.

 

All this proves - you should get educated about the MMMP before you proceed.

 

-DN

 

Even if everything you wrote is valid, it still doesn't allow an officer of the law to disclose confidential information.

 

Government employees are supposed to go to jail when they break this law.

[The Digital Nomad]

So then the standard for the outdoor grow is to have a cover and out of sight?

 

Law didn't say "out of sight" but lets consider this,

Would it be responsible to leave fifths of booze out on the dining room table for your kids to see and access?

Would it be responsible to let your neighbors watch you skinny dip in your pool?

 

WHY would you grow a marijuana plant in plain view of kids and neighbors? You ever consider some kids might be misinformed about marijuana, maybe some might have substance abuse problems they need to address? Why would you make the police patrol your neighborhood - just waiting for the call to come in about your plants getting stolen, or perhaps a home invasion where a couple of guys held you and your family up - for your plants and 'harvest'?

 

"Out of sight" should be a part of "secure" Like the guy in Auburn Hills, who had his unsecured, unenclosed plants taken by the police and charged - if it was 'out of sight', it could have helped! Now his privacy has as much security as his plants did.

 

-DN

[westmich]

Photos of unsecured grow in Auburn Hills

 

1. Not secure and enclosed. Enclosed means on all sides, including the top (kids jump fences you know)

2. Didn't even bother to post "Restricted Area By State Law" signs - warning LEO to contact MDCH before proceeding.

- that sign has a place to put your card #, along with the MDCH phone number - easy to call and verify if you are not around.

 

I have seen several outdoor grows this year. That grow is close to harvest and should be done soon - they will not get more than 6-7ft.

AND - the MMMP just says 12 plants - they CAN be 16' tall each if you wanted.

 

The patient lost his meds, but not his rights to grow. If he was concerned about his neighbors finding out, he should not have grown outside eh?

 

-DN

 

What sign are you talking about?

 

Personally, I wouldn't grow in plain view, but I sure as hell wouldn't put a sign on the fence or building indicating a marijuana grow. I could see the cops using that against you. Why not just put a sign up that says come rob me? Do you have a sign on the back of your car that says licensed driver behind the wheel?

 

What makes a secured enclosure? How about a dead body laying in front of the gate indicating the owner will keep all persons out?

[+RevThad]

Who was dishonest?

Neighbor saw plants and called the cops, cops came, saw plants unsecured, and likely no indication it was an attempt at a legal grow.

Respect? Did the homeowner respect his neighbors and kids in the neighborhood? If he had respect for the law, he would have made SOME effort to secure his grow eh? Cops dishonest? Were they supposed to leave it, post a business card "hey get back to me!", and hope the person was not an illegal grower that will ditch the evidence when they come back?

 

All the work I do to educate people, visiting their homes, or speaking at the public meetings - I meet plenty of people who take every effort to understand the law and follow it - before they grow. What do we do about those that choose to ignore the law, or play ignorance?

"Afraid to go to a public meeting for information?" - Then you better not grow, because you'll really have something to be afraid of.

 

Maybe the grower didn't care, and now he knows why he should have cared before.

 

All this proves - you should get educated about the MMMP before you proceed.

 

-DN

See there is that term again, the same one a certain prosecutor and sheriff were using to describe the Michigan Medical Marijuana Act... One would think somebody educating others on the law would at least get the title of it correct. But I digress.

 

So now you are suggesting that folks are not allowed to use their private property, because the neighbors might see, or their kids might see it. I have news for you, 4 foot fence or 20 foot fence with barbed wire, both are just as easy to get into. Bolt cutters are cheap and effective tools and make quick work of chain link.

 

Let's assume then that your position is correct, and they (LEO) had every right to seize the plants, in order to make sure that it wasn't part of an illegal grow operation that the grower would skip out on. Let's even assume that they had no clue the guy was a patient at the time, and didn't want to take the chance that he would skip if he had warning. Once they found out he was a patient, why press charges against him?

 

If this police department had nothing better to do than to break up a 12 plant grow that may or may not be legal, and arrest a legal patient for that grow; I suggest they could have found the time to sit on it and wait for somebody to come home, or at the very least investigate the circumstances a bit more before the raid.

 

Oh and let's also not forget they just plastered this man's name and address all over the news, let everybody in the world know that he is a mmj patient, what he looks like, and that he will have meds even if he moves... violation of the same law you suggest this man broke, and possible endangerment charges.

 

Keep preaching from your ivory tower. If your logic is what you are teaching in your classes, and I suspect charging for, I personally would recommend not attending your events. However, that is just my opinion.

[+RevThad]

Law didn't say "out of sight" but lets consider this,

Would it be responsible to leave fifths of booze out on the dining room table for your kids to see and access?

Would it be responsible to let your neighbors watch you skinny dip in your pool?

 

WHY would you grow a marijuana plant in plain view of kids and neighbors? You ever consider some kids might be misinformed about marijuana, maybe some might have substance abuse problems they need to address? Why would you make the police patrol your neighborhood - just waiting for the call to come in about your plants getting stolen, or perhaps a home invasion where a couple of guys held you and your family up - for your plants and 'harvest'?

 

"Out of sight" should be a part of "secure" Like the guy in Auburn Hills, who had his unsecured, unenclosed plants taken by the police and charged - if it was 'out of sight', it could have helped! Now his privacy has as much security as his plants did.

 

-DN

 

Am I a criminal if I leave those fifths of booze sitting out in my backyard on a table in plain sight? How about if I don't even have a fence? Am I criminal if the neighbor kid opens up the cooler I have sitting in my yard and steals a beer?

 

But let's take this to the next level, seeing as a certain Justice of the COA seemed to do this in his opinion. As the word enclosed is not specifically defined in the law, it is proper to look for the common meaning of the word in a dictionary.

 

Enclosed~

# closed in or surrounded or included within; "an enclosed porch"; "an enclosed yard"; "the enclosed check is to cover shipping and handling"

 

# contained within a three dimensional container; fenced in or surrounded; (of a division within a pipe organ surrounded by a wooden box, one or more sides of which contain slats that can be opened or closed in order to increase or decrease volume) having closed slats

 

#enclose - To surround with a wall, fence, etc; To insert into a container, usually an envelope or package

 

Shall I go on? We could discuss what other security devices are...

 

Just one last question. Shouldn't parents that have to worry about their kids stealing from their neighbors yard, have other things to worry about than what their neighbor is up to? I mean, something like teaching their children that stealing is wrong?

[roomtogrow]

what should have happend did not because the leos that work for all the grants are in no way educated on what to do when they come across marijana, it doesnt matter if they see a grow in or out they will take and plants and not answer later.they want it out of site and out of mind ,that is so wrong,we need to come up with a fund to educate all leo employees and mandate it to keep the sick from getting sicker !

[peanutbutter]

How about a dead body laying in front of the gate indicating the owner will keep all persons out?

 

Two things.

 

1 it works

2. don't do it. They put you in jail for it.

[peanutbutter]

Law didn't say "out of sight" but lets consider this,

Would it be responsible to leave fifths of booze out on the dining room table for your kids to see and access?

Would it be responsible to let your neighbors watch you skinny dip in your pool?

 

WHY would you grow a marijuana plant in plain view of kids and neighbors? You ever consider some kids might be misinformed about marijuana, maybe some might have substance abuse problems they need to address? Why would you make the police patrol your neighborhood - just waiting for the call to come in about your plants getting stolen, or perhaps a home invasion where a couple of guys held you and your family up - for your plants and 'harvest'?

 

"Out of sight" should be a part of "secure" Like the guy in Auburn Hills, who had his unsecured, unenclosed plants taken by the police and charged - if it was 'out of sight', it could have helped! Now his privacy has as much security as his plants did.

 

-DN

 

Wouldn't it be wonderful if everyone could agree those were the rules statewide?

[dutch&Dutchess]

These are just the decoy grows. Plant 100 to get 10. Makes for fun when the swine go rooting around and make a big fuss for nothing so as to justify their do nothing except steal stuff jobs

[dlovas]

If I remember correctly, someone on this forum built a chain link box around his outdoor grow (essentially a dog kennel style enclosure) and showed it to his local LEO, who signed off on it. If I recall, this was somewhere up north where he may have had some acreage, not a backyard in a metro area.

 

It really is a shame how our law is written. I just got back from tending my friend's medical grow in California, where he has 25 lovely bushes surrounding his pool. If only we could roll like this:

I wish I had that pool..! daamn ...lo...

[The Digital Nomad]

I'll ignore the nuances, baiting, and personal lawyer comments:

 

Someone asked "what sign"

 

This is the sign that the MOCC encourages people to post outside their growrooms. (if this was outside, it would be on the inner fence)

 

http://www.thc4u.com/images/fbfiles/files/Restricted_Area-20100917.zip (you'll have to sign up for the site to view and download it)

 

"NOTICE

RESTRICTED AREA

The person operating this facility is REGISTERED with the

MICHIGAN DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH as a REGISTERED CAREGIVER,

REGISTRY IDENTIFICATION CARD NUMBER(s) _________________

_____________,______________,_____________,_____________

and is thereby authorized to be in possession of the materials on

these premises pursuant to MCL 333.26421, et seq.

Pursuant to MCL 333.26426 § (h)(3), law enforcement personnel

should contact the Michigan Department of Health, Compliance

Manger, at 517-373-4992 or Program Coordinator, at 517-373-

4992, to verify that the Registry Identification Card Number(s)

above are valid. If you have further questions, please contact:

______________________________________________________

Pursuant to MCL 333.26426 § (h), all licit property that is

possessed, owned, or used in connection with this medical

operation, storage, etc., or acts incidental to such use, shall not be

seized or forfeited.

Any person who takes possession or otherwise damages the

materials on these premises will be committing a felony. Any law

enforcement personnel that secured a warrant, without disclosure

of the foregoing information to the Court before proceeding with

any search or seizure, will be subject to prosecution."

 

-DN

[+EdwardGlen]

I'll ignore the nuances, baiting, and personal lawyer comments:

 

Someone asked "what sign"

 

This is the sign that the MOCC encourages people to post outside their growrooms. (if this was outside, it would be on the inner fence)

 

http://www.thc4u.com/images/fbfiles/files/Restricted_Area-20100917.zip (you'll have to sign up for the site to view and download it)

 

"NOTICE

RESTRICTED AREA

The person operating this facility is REGISTERED with the

MICHIGAN DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH as a REGISTERED CAREGIVER,

REGISTRY IDENTIFICATION CARD NUMBER(s) _________________

_____________,______________,_____________,_____________

and is thereby authorized to be in possession of the materials on

these premises pursuant to MCL 333.26421, et seq.

Pursuant to MCL 333.26426 § (h)(3), law enforcement personnel

should contact the Michigan Department of Health, Compliance

Manger, at 517-373-4992 or Program Coordinator, at 517-373-

4992, to verify that the Registry Identification Card Number(s)

above are valid. If you have further questions, please contact:

______________________________________________________

Pursuant to MCL 333.26426 § (h), all licit property that is

possessed, owned, or used in connection with this medical

operation, storage, etc., or acts incidental to such use, shall not be

seized or forfeited.

Any person who takes possession or otherwise damages the

materials on these premises will be committing a felony. Any law

enforcement personnel that secured a warrant, without disclosure

of the foregoing information to the Court before proceeding with

any search or seizure, will be subject to prosecution."

 

-DN

 

Anything to help is appreciated Thanks soundless, glad you're still around.

[bobandtorey]

one like this in barry county where the guy had 4 of his outside to spray for mites

police seen them ,took those and the other 8 , seems ridicules i could see if they were

planted out side but the card holding patient had them in small containers ,as it stands prosecutor

has no charges as of yet but 3 of the plants were hanging curing ,the patient has no money for an a lawyer

and needs his meds,what the first step for him ?

 

 

i do feel for him and am sorry it happen has he been charged yet?