People V John Doe - Charlevoix County

[budpuffer]

wtf,the assisant PA,is taking the word of the officer that the grow was illegal???what do we need judges for just take the cops word???i'm sorry to hear of these law abiding folks getting screwed with by Leo...sooner of later somebody is going to get shot and chances are it won't be LEO just another law abiding,god fearing,tax paying,citizen,,,zzb

[dutch&Dutchess]

while elsewhere a very similar grow was held to be legal and secure.

they hates losing all that free money they got from asset forfeiture and plain old fashioned bribery

[V420]

just disgusted with LEO after viewing the interview of this good man,obviously a god fearing ,law abiding,good hearted grandpa,someone who I would be glad to live next door to.I hope he is awarded a large sum of cash and this madness stops!

[Red Hair Skunk]

If this person or anyone is in violation of section 4 guidelines, by not having his/her grow area in a enclosed secured facility; then I think the thing to do might be to issue a ticket or warning. The same as if you were pulled over for a defective tail light in a traffic stop. Make the repair - pay a fine. You don't destroy someones car if they're pulled over for not having brake lights.

 

Twisted logic is an understatement. I totally agree this is about harassment and intimidation. A license to steal.

[Bilbo The Grower]

An additional note regarding the Marijuana Laws: This is quoted from the Jackson Citizen Patriot Wire Digest dated: Saturday October 16, 2010

"Holder: Marijuana laws will be enforced

San Francisco - Attorney General Eric Holder said the federal government will enforce its marijuana laws in California even if voters next month make the state the first in the nation to legalize the drug. The Justice Department strongly opposes California's Proposition 19 and remains firmly committed to enforcing the federal Controlled Substances Act in all states, Holder wrote in a letter to former chiefs of the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration. The Associated Press obtained a copy of the letter, dated Wednesday. "We will vigorously enforce the CSA against those individuals and organizations that possess, manufacture or distribute marijuana for recreational use, even if such activities are permitted under state law," Holder wrote."

 

My take and two cents from reading the above Michigan Search Warrant and from the stand of the Federal Government is this: I don't support the removal of the plants from a Registered Caregiver. But the Michigan State law clearly states: "Fully Enclosed Secured Area". My understanding of fully enclosed would mean locked in a secure building. I think that this Caregiver went through a lot of trouble putting up a fence and covering his product, but I can't see how this would be construed as fully enclosed and secure. Perhaps he had and alarm system or dogs, it's not stated, but if not, it would seem any unsavory or determined wiley coyote person could stealthily enter that premises and steal product. This is the very thing the law is trying to prevent. I have a home in Indiana and changed my residency to Michigan so that I could try and take advantage of the Michigan Marijuana Law. I am not a user, but I felt that if I used my passion of wanting to do the best I can do of my own abilities to grow Medical Marijuana on my Michigan property for which I pay Michigan taxes, I could do this and still be an honest and fair caregiver for my patients. I admit, I have a lot to learn in growing Medical Marijuana hydroponically or at all. But I spent much expense ensuring that my grow facility is in a LOCKED SECURE BUILDING. I realize that any determined thief can break and enter into ANY building that they want, but it would require MUCH effort to steal or even to view my product. Certainly the LEO's could never view my product or evidence of growing product from a drive by or even a fly by. They would have to break and enter my premises and that would be entrapment. Or they can request a legal audit as my name and address is provided on my Michigan Department Of Community Health card. I'm not saying that I am not careful. But let's be honest. It takes real effort to grow Medical Marijuana Legally and to stay within the law and to try and make a little profit. And even by doing this, there is little, if any, room to make a profit (which we are not supposed to do) unless you try and WORK to stay within the legal limits. Cutting corners in the growing, caring, tending, expense, distribution and security of your Medical Marijuana will do nothing but make it bad for those who are really trying to stay within the law and provide for themselves or for patients fairly. I for one do not feel sorry for any operation that is growing marijuana for recreation and busted. I think that it is a plus for the genuine Caregivers since it keeps supply and demand legally balanced. I don't feel sorry for anyone growing marijuana in the cornstalks or on public property or even private property if they violate the law. I'd like to have Michigan keep the Medical Marijuana program to provide relief for genuine patients who prefer a choice of Medical Marijuana over the inflated price of chemicals that can do more damage to your body than good. We already know that the pharmaceutical companies over charge the American People for their own profit and greed. If you don't believe this, trying obtaining Health Insurance for yourself or for your family if you have any type of pre-existing health condition. Sorry for being long winded, but I wanted to express my thoughts since joining this website and before I join any Compassion Club, so you can see me coming and be forwarned.... (L)augh (O)ut (L)oud... :-) Bilbo The Grower...Zeke

[puffaway]

You are forgetting about a very important language issue here. The law does not say "locked and enclosed building"...it says "locked and enclosed structure". A fence qualifies as a locked and enclosed facility, and the hoop building within it qualifies as a "structure". Add the perimeter fence to the structure and it all meets the requirements to the elements of "breaking and entering" if a bad guy had broken into it. So if they can charge a criminal with B&E for breaking into it how can they say it was not a locked and secured facility?

Yea..maybe splitting hairs on my side of the arguement. But somewhere in these issues common sense has to work hand in hand with written law, and common sense tells anybody that this facility met the requirements and that LEO overstepped their boundries.

SUE, SUE, SUE, SUE

 

I hope you get a couple million out of this when its all said and done. Minorities in our society have been getting million dollar settlements from municipalites for years from LEO for false arrest with no proof of actual monetary losses. This incident is even more appalling under the circumstances. They could have just taken pictures and made a decision later...but NO..they had to rush to judgement and put themselves in a corner figuring that you would take a plea to a misdemeanor. Seems to me that you have a big issue here with your reputation within the local community having been destroyed etc, etc. This could even attract the attention of that moron Jeffery Feiger since there could be so much cash involved. Now THAT would get the attention of other law enforcement units and prosecutors throughout the state!

[bobandtorey]

You are forgetting about a very important language issue here. The law does not say "locked and enclosed building"...it says "locked and enclosed structure". A fence qualifies as a locked and enclosed facility, and the hoop building within it qualifies as a "structure". Add the perimeter fence to the structure and it all meets the requirements to the elements of "breaking and entering" if a bad guy had broken into it. So if they can charge a criminal with B&E for breaking into it how can they say it was not a locked and secured facility?

Yea..maybe splitting hairs on my side of the arguement. But somewhere in these issues common sense has to work hand in hand with written law, and common sense tells anybody that this facility met the requirements and that LEO overstepped their boundries.

SUE, SUE, SUE, SUE

 

I hope you get a couple million out of this when its all said and done. Minorities in our society have been getting million dollar settlements from municipalites for years from LEO for false arrest with no proof of actual monetary losses. This incident is even more appalling under the circumstances. They could have just taken pictures and made a decision later...but NO..they had to rush to judgement and put themselves in a corner figuring that you would take a plea to a misdemeanor. Seems to me that you have a big issue here with your reputation within the local community having been destroyed etc, etc. This could even attract the attention of that moron Jeffery Feiger since there could be so much cash involved. Now THAT would get the attention of other law enforcement units and prosecutors throughout the state!

he better sue sue sue but we get to sue first and their are others inn line

[stlhdr]

he better sue sue sue but we get to sue first and their are others inn line

I hope you guys break their bank!!! (Unfortunately we're the ones who funded it to begin with - paying for our own screwing...)

[Wayne'sWorld]

An additional note regarding the Marijuana Laws: This is quoted from the Jackson Citizen Patriot Wire Digest dated: Saturday October 16, 2010

"Holder: Marijuana laws will be enforced

San Francisco - Attorney General Eric Holder said the federal government will enforce its marijuana laws in California even if voters next month make the state the first in the nation to legalize the drug. The Justice Department strongly opposes California's Proposition 19 and remains firmly committed to enforcing the federal Controlled Substances Act in all states, Holder wrote in a letter to former chiefs of the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration. The Associated Press obtained a copy of the letter, dated Wednesday. "We will vigorously enforce the CSA against those individuals and organizations that possess, manufacture or distribute marijuana for recreational use, even if such activities are permitted under state law," Holder wrote."

 

My take and two cents from reading the above Michigan Search Warrant and from the stand of the Federal Government is this: I don't support the removal of the plants from a Registered Caregiver. But the Michigan State law clearly states: "Fully Enclosed Secured Area". My understanding of fully enclosed would mean locked in a secure building. I think that this Caregiver went through a lot of trouble putting up a fence and covering his product, but I can't see how this would be construed as fully enclosed and secure. Perhaps he had and alarm system or dogs, it's not stated, but if not, it would seem any unsavory or determined wiley coyote person could stealthily enter that premises and steal product. This is the very thing the law is trying to prevent. I have a home in Indiana and changed my residency to Michigan so that I could try and take advantage of the Michigan Marijuana Law. I am not a user, but I felt that if I used my passion of wanting to do the best I can do of my own abilities to grow Medical Marijuana on my Michigan property for which I pay Michigan taxes, I could do this and still be an honest and fair caregiver for my patients. I admit, I have a lot to learn in growing Medical Marijuana hydroponically or at all. But I spent much expense ensuring that my grow facility is in a LOCKED SECURE BUILDING. I realize that any determined thief can break and enter into ANY building that they want, but it would require MUCH effort to steal or even to view my product. Certainly the LEO's could never view my product or evidence of growing product from a drive by or even a fly by. They would have to break and enter my premises and that would be entrapment. Or they can request a legal audit as my name and address is provided on my Michigan Department Of Community Health card. I'm not saying that I am not careful. But let's be honest. It takes real effort to grow Medical Marijuana Legally and to stay within the law and to try and make a little profit. And even by doing this, there is little, if any, room to make a profit (which we are not supposed to do) unless you try and WORK to stay within the legal limits. Cutting corners in the growing, caring, tending, expense, distribution and security of your Medical Marijuana will do nothing but make it bad for those who are really trying to stay within the law and provide for themselves or for patients fairly. I for one do not feel sorry for any operation that is growing marijuana for recreation and busted. I think that it is a plus for the genuine Caregivers since it keeps supply and demand legally balanced. I don't feel sorry for anyone growing marijuana in the cornstalks or on public property or even private property if they violate the law. I'd like to have Michigan keep the Medical Marijuana program to provide relief for genuine patients who prefer a choice of Medical Marijuana over the inflated price of chemicals that can do more damage to your body than good. We already know that the pharmaceutical companies over charge the American People for their own profit and greed. If you don't believe this, trying obtaining Health Insurance for yourself or for your family if you have any type of pre-existing health condition. Sorry for being long winded, but I wanted to express my thoughts since joining this website and before I join any Compassion Club, so you can see me coming and be forwarned.... (L)augh (O)ut (L)oud... :-) Bilbo The Grower...Zeke

Slippery slope your treading on there Bilbo. Would you want your bank to place your money in a "Fully enclosed secured area"? I know I would. Wonder how LEO may feel about it? Seen those slick rechargable reciprocating saws that thieves use to steal catalytic converters? Cut a nice hole in a residential wall too!

[thanks2]

An additional note regarding the Marijuana Laws: This is quoted from the Jackson Citizen Patriot Wire Digest dated: Saturday October 16, 2010

"Holder: Marijuana laws will be enforced

 

But the Michigan State law clearly states: "Fully Enclosed Secured Area". My understanding of fully enclosed would mean locked in a secure building.

The law states "locked and enclosed secured area". It dose not say "fully enclosed" and does not define enclosed. So when a law does not define a word, the law is you must use the dictionary to define it. The definition of enclosed from a dictionary is "fenced in or surrounded". Because of this fact, the to court cases involving out door grows have concluded the grow does not even need a top!!

 

He also had motion sensors and a guard for his grow on top of fully enclose outer fence, plus another fence that had a top and sides. He did not need any plastic, let alone plastic on top. It does not have to be invisible, but it was, except for a small area on top.

[Kingpinn]

Man thats better than my dog kennel by far.Next thing will be how many babys did he have and did he have a card to cover the plants. Good Luck

 

Going to be in Appeals Court Nov 4th over just about the same thing . LEO didnt like my Dog Kennel. But was all within my numbers ever under they killed 10 plants sorry bunny muffins

[pic book]

The overhead shots make it plain that the facility in question was enclosed; from photos it is unclear whether it was locked.

 

I am aware of greenhouses in California where all four sides are wood with a steel service door (with Quickset entry lock). The thing appears to be nothing except a wood shed. But the roof is corrugated green panels, painted and appears to be galvanized sheet metal but allows an abundance of light, just through one surface, the roof. One plant in a space the size of an outhouse will yield two pounds. The "here comes the sun" advantage.

[rockinlespaul]

I see absolutely no problem with this. What LEO did was completely uncalled for and over the top. These guys need to start paying for this.

[knottwhole]

I see absolutely no problem with this. What LEO did was completely uncalled for and over the top. These guys need to start paying for this.

I've been away awhile and come back to this.

What a shame!

I had a successful grow outdoors under much the same conditions only smaller, and didn't experience the problems this family did. Always talk to a knowledgeable layer before attempting an outdoor grow. When it comes down to security, unless you have an alarm system (Bigggg dogs), I can get into anything you have with my hands.

This was definitely a case of overzealous police action and hopefully a jury will see it that way if it goes that far.

[Eric L. VanDussen]

[Big J]

Looks secure and locked to me

[knottwhole]

Thanks for the update.

[lawyercaregiver]

This should be a slam dunk on the dismissal. There is very recent persuasive precedent that "enclosed" does not mean COMPLETELY (sorry bilbo, you got this one wrong) enclosed and that even an open air facility is allowed so long it is locked and "enclosed."

 

Look at the darn dictionary definition: Enclosed means "hemmed in" as in "the valley was enclosed by the mountains." A crack in the tarp, hell, even if the thing were TOTALLY OPEN AIR, does not mean it is not enclosed.

 

I hope your lawyer is suing the po po after you beat the criminal charge.

 

However, where does that 100,000 figure come from? That is way more than even the dispensaries charge. Dividing the 8 ounces he could possess by $100,000 makes for a hefty price!

[peanutbutter]

This should be a slam dunk on the dismissal. There is very recent persuasive precedent that "enclosed" does not mean COMPLETELY (sorry bilbo, you got this one wrong) enclosed and that even an open air facility is allowed so long it is locked and "enclosed."

 

Look at the darn dictionary definition: Enclosed means "hemmed in" as in "the valley was enclosed by the mountains." A crack in the tarp, hell, even if the thing were TOTALLY OPEN AIR, does not mean it is not enclosed.

 

I hope your lawyer is suing the po po after you beat the criminal charge.

 

However, where does that 100,000 figure come from? That is way more than even the dispensaries charge. Dividing the 8 ounces he could possess by $100,000 makes for a hefty price!

 

If a patient is relying on this one single crop to provide their medicine until the next crop, the amounts are obviously larger than 2.5 oz. An outdoor crop is intended to provide medicine for a long period of time.

 

How much would it cost to purchase an entire years worth of medicine for three people?

[peanutbutter]

If a patient is relying on this one single crop to provide their medicine until the next crop, the amounts are obviously larger than 2.5 oz. An outdoor crop is intended to provide medicine for a long period of time.

 

How much would it cost to purchase an entire years worth of medicine for three people?

 

Most patients can not afford to purchase their meds at the rate of $400/oz. Not all the time. If a patient requires an oz per week, as many do, the only way they can afford it is to make the best of the outdoor season that they can. The outdoor season is a sharp need for this kind of patient.

 

The replacement cost, in this case, would be (3 patients x 52 x $400) $62,400.

 

edit .. Irv Rosenfeld (sp?) receives something like 11 oz every 23 days directly from the federal government for his medical condition. Four oz per month is much less than the fed thinks is reasonable for medical application.

[knottwhole]

If they haven't changed the court date, this one is due everyone.

Regardless if they change the date, always forward, never strait.

Give out a little hope for John Doe.

Many things ride on this decision.

Happy holidays.

[Big J]

well up there it must just be worth that much I couldn't tell you how much it is running up there but if it is like anything else up there it cost a fortune.

[Eric L. VanDussen]

The prosecutor agreed to dismiss all charges against Mr. Doe this afternoon (12-09-10) immediately prior to oral arguments being heard on the defendant's motion to quash/suppress/dismiss. The judge, prosecutor and defense attorney were in chambers for over 1/2 hour and then held a lengthy sidebar before the prosecutor agreed to dismiss.

 

My video of the court proceedings will be streaming online soon.

[bobandtorey]

Great news Thanks for the update when is it are turn i jeard we will be inn court for Life

[bobandtorey]

Great news Thanks for the update when is it are turn i heard we will be inn court for Life