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Arrested In Wisconsin


Jobe

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Long story short - I was pulled over in Oconto for a burned out head light (it must have just burned out, I have that kind of luck) The cop, a k9 unit, ran my license and when he came back to the car asked me to step out and walked me to the back of my car. He said he wanted to check me for weapons and told me he smelled marijuana. More likely determined he was gonna search me when he ran my name and saw my priors. He asked me if I had anything on me, and he would have found it while searching me so I gave him my glass chilling and 2 grams of mj in a pill bottle. I also had 4 grams of shwag in a baggie on me. I then told him I'm a Medical Patient in Michigan and had my card. He asked for it, looked at it, then said wrong state. Cuffed, stuffed and brought to the county, bonded right out for $200 ($100 for the mmj and $100 for the glass piece. Through all of this, i was a little amused, because its been almost 10 years since I've been arrested, and i didn't think there could be that much trouble for it. After all, how much trouble can you get in for 6 grams?

 

2 months later, I got served some papers saying I'm being charged with a FELONY (cuz of priors), court sometime in Dec. Ill keep everybody posted.

 

Stay out of Wisconsin with your meds, I guess the alcoholics there don't like the competition.

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Yeah... cheese cops are hardcore no way about any cannabis. Was it a local or a wolf that nailed ya? I'm gonna guess local. Too bad you were in Oconto and not Dane :(

Keep us informed. It would be interesting to know if the recent decisions in Dane will end up having an impact on your case. Good luck to you!

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Long story short - I was pulled over in Oconto for a burned out head light (it must have just burned out, I have that kind of luck) The cop, a k9 unit, ran my license and when he came back to the car asked me to step out and walked me to the back of my car. He said he wanted to check me for weapons and told me he smelled marijuana. More likely determined he was gonna search me when he ran my name and saw my priors. He asked me if I had anything on me, and he would have found it while searching me so I gave him my glass chilling and 2 grams of mj in a pill bottle. I also had 4 grams of shwag in a baggie on me. I then told him I'm a Medical Patient in Michigan and had my card. He asked for it, looked at it, then said wrong state. Cuffed, stuffed and brought to the county, bonded right out for $200 ($100 for the mmj and $100 for the glass piece. Through all of this, i was a little amused, because its been almost 10 years since I've been arrested, and i didn't think there could be that much trouble for it. After all, how much trouble can you get in for 6 grams?

 

2 months later, I got served some papers saying I'm being charged with a FELONY (cuz of priors), court sometime in Dec. Ill keep everybody posted.

 

Stay out of Wisconsin with your meds, I guess the alcoholics there don't like the competition.

Sorry to hear that.I don't think anyone should go to jail for cannabis, and dont mean to sound rude but you just shouldve left your meds at home.Be thankful they didnt try some feaked out- carrying over state lines bullshyte on ya.Hope things work out for ya I really do, like I said noone deserves jail time for such a beautiful plant.Good luck!

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I'm meeting with a lawyer I found through the norml website tomorrow. I'm also pretty sure if it is a controlled substance prescribed by a legal doc its legal (thanks 215'ers and marinol)

 

Check out cc

 

961.32(2)(2) The following persons need not be registered under federal law to lawfully possess controlled substances in this state:

 

961.32(2)(a)(a) An agent or employee of any registered manufacturer, distributor or dispenser of any controlled substance if the agent or employee is acting in the usual course of the agent's or employee's business or employment;

 

961.32(2)(b)(b) A common or contract carrier or warehouse keeper, or an employee thereof, whose possession of any controlled substance is in the usual course of business or employment;

 

961.32(2)©© An ultimate user or a person in possession of any controlled substance pursuant to a lawful order of a practitioner or in lawful possession of a schedule V substance.

 

 

That's me right? Thoughts or opinions please!

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Well, there are other pieces of WI to consider...

What did you get busted for? Cannabis, technically THC...

961.14

961.14 Schedule I. Unless specifically excepted by state or federal law or regulation or more specifically included in another schedule, the following controlled substances are listed in schedule I:

961.14(4)(t)

(t) Tetrahydrocannabinols, commonly known as "THC", in any form including tetrahydrocannabinols contained in marijuana, obtained from marijuana or chemically synthesized;

 

So currently cannabis is considered schedule I, not V in Wisconsin. No THC form is listed under schedule V. So, no, that's probably not you. Sorry :( Interestingly, you are using subchapter 3- REGULATION OF MANUFACTURE, DISTRIBUTION AND DISPENSING OF CONTROLLED SUBSTANCES- might not be the wisest part of the law to hold up for yourself.

 

And don't forget, a MI MM card is a doctors recommendation, not a prescription. You were not pulled over with marinol in your car, or hold a prescription for marinol I assume.

And even after all that, WI is pretty serious about drugged driving. If the cop smelled pot, it's not unreasonable for him to assume you were driving under the influence of it, and that is a no no as far as cops are concerned. Not saying you were, just what the cop would be thinking.

 

I'm not trying to bust your chops... I just already know personally how WI can be about cannabis.

Once again, best of luck... Hope your appointment with the lawyer goes well tomorrow!!

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I find it a lot easier to find my pipe and meds when I'm on the road if I pin them to the lapel or upper left chest area of my shirt or coat, and I never leave them behind in the vehicle! Wrestling with things in your pocket when driving can be dangerous, maybe even requiring temporarily removing your seat belt. Be careful!

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Turns out that the laws have all been updated and re-worded anyway. The attorney I talked to said weather or not an out of state mmj patient is allowed to have the meds recommended by a doctor in Wisconsin is still unclear, but he likes the argument that legally obtained medicine isn't a crime and thinks we have a good shot at setting precedence.

 

They bad news is that this will be at least an $8K fight. It may as well be 2 leprechauns and a Unicorn. I don't really want to plea out, I'd rather find out for sure if I can bring my meds to Wisconsin or not, but it may be cheaper in the long run to cop out. I may go to my first court date without a lawyer to get a sense of how serious they are, if they offer a plea etc, and see what happens from there.

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Turns out that the laws have all been updated and re-worded anyway. The attorney I talked to said weather or not an out of state mmj patient is allowed to have the meds recommended by a doctor in Wisconsin is still unclear, but he likes the argument that legally obtained medicine isn't a crime and thinks we have a good shot at setting precedence.

 

They bad news is that this will be at least an $8K fight. It may as well be 2 leprechauns and a Unicorn. I don't really want to plea out, I'd rather find out for sure if I can bring my meds to Wisconsin or not, but it may be cheaper in the long run to cop out. I may go to my first court date without a lawyer to get a sense of how serious they are, if they offer a plea etc, and see what happens from there.

 

Starts out $8K but I'd be real surprised if that covers a jury trial, probably closer to two/three times that unless no expert witnesses are needed and if you're going to try to set a precedent, you need experts, and likely appeals.

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As far as this can really go man its kinda common logic, most the people on here know our card is only valid in MI and 2 or 3 other states wtih MMJ, always check into the legality before you do something out of state and this could have been avoided, it will be a long thing with out a plea good luck man keep us updated.

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When if first got my card, I did some digging around on the net, and came across some info that Wisconsin had reduced penalties for out of state patients. I figured at worst I was looking at some fines or something. Turns out that info was a misinterpretation of an outdated law. Finding out it was a felony to have my meds was a complete shock.

 

The 8 grand for the lawyer is supposed to cover everything, start to finish, trial or not. That's why i will probably see what they say at the first court date and if they offer a plea etc. If they want to be hardasses about it then i may have to sell a kidney or a liver or something lol.

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Yeah... cheese cops are hardcore no way about any cannabis. Was it a local or a wolf that nailed ya? I'm gonna guess local. Too bad you were in Oconto and not Dane :(

Keep us informed. It would be interesting to know if the recent decisions in Dane will end up having an impact on your case. Good luck to you!

 

 

 

Maaaan I hail from WI., and know all to well about those cocksuckers, every county will sweat you unless your in Milwaukee County, the police there will just take, crush or damage your weed if under 7 grits and you just charge it to the game rather than getting fines, arrested and all that nonsense, but unless I am in a Medicinal state I am ANAL I make sure everything in the whip works otherwise were asking for it. Last year also WI had a medicinal bill that didn't pass the Assembley level, there was no Republican support, and the Govenor at the time vowed if it reached his desk he would sign it into law. Now I do know none of the oppossing forces from last session were seeking re election so we know have some hope, but we also have a new republican govenor in that state but I am not sure what his position on medicial marijuana is. I HOPE IT WILL BE THERE 1 DAY so I CAN GO HOME and get my farm on legally!

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Maaaan I hail from WI., and know all to well about those cocksuckers, every county will sweat you unless your in Milwaukee County, the police there will just take, crush or damage your weed if under 7 grits and you just charge it to the game rather than getting fines, arrested and all that nonsense, but unless I am in a Medicinal state I am ANAL I make sure everything in the whip works otherwise were asking for it. Last year also WI had a medicinal bill that didn't pass the Assembley level, there was no Republican support, and the Govenor at the time vowed if it reached his desk he would sign it into law. Now I do know none of the oppossing forces from last session were seeking re election so we know have some hope, but we also have a new republican govenor in that state but I am not sure what his position on medicial marijuana is. I HOPE IT WILL BE THERE 1 DAY so I CAN GO HOME and get my farm on legally!

 

 

You should also be anal in some medical states seeing as our card is not valid everywhere, people need to start reading the law and doing some research and this situation could easily have been avoided.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Regardless of what could have been avoided, its already happened. I was hoping for a bit of legal advise, examples of similar cases, or anything else that may help rather than a lecture. I've seen a ton of great legal advise on here, any opinions on the best defense to use? They want to use out of state priors as a penalty enhancer, possibly take my Michigan drivers license, yet completely ignore the Michigan law (and doc's recommendation) that says its legal for me to have my meds. If convicted, I can be put on probation, which I assume they will transfer to the county I live in. That would put me on probation in Michigan for something that isn't even a crime in Michigan.

 

My case doesn't involve growing too many plants, driving violations (besides the headlight - but no impairment issues, dui, speeding, etc) I wasn't in possession of any other narcotics, prescriptions, or violating any other laws. I was simply heading to to put in a double shift at work (I work nights) and because I wasn't going back home right after work,instead oping to sleep at a friends in Wisconsin to avoid driving while drowsy,I brought a small amount of meds to relieve myself before going to bed, and to be able to medicate when I woke up. Wisconsin's apparently believes this is felony behavior. If anyone has anything usefully to say, I'd appreciate it as I have one week untill my first court date.

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  • 2 months later...

Still nothing new to report, but a few links that may be helpful if somebody in the same boat finds their way to this thread.

 

Drug paraphernalia? That's a tobacco pipe.

http://wislawjournal.com/blog/2011/01/25/statute-says-williams-is-innocent-of-possession/

 

 

Here is another link for a prop 215 patient arrested in Wisconsin. She plead out before it went to trail but it has a good collection of statutes and motions relevant to the case.

http://stopthedrugwar.org/speakeasy/2009/mar/15/arrested_my_cause

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  • 3 weeks later...

Here is where I have found myself... please take the time to read and review for me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

961.41(3g)

 

(3g) Possession.  No person may possess or attempt to possess a

 

controlled substance or a controlled substance analog unless the person

 

obtains the substance or the analog directly from, or pursuant to a

 

valid prescription or order of, a practitioner who is acting in the

 

course of his or her professional practice, or unless the person is

 

otherwise authorized by this chapter to possess the substance or the

 

analog.  Any person who violates this subsection is subject to the

 

following penalties: blah blah blah

 

 

"unless the person

 

obtains the substance or the analog directly from, or pursuant to a

 

valid prescription or order of, a practitioner..."

 

 

Well what does Wisconsin define as a practitioner?

 

 

961.01(19)(19)  "Practitioner" means: 961.01(19)(a)(a) A physician, advanced practice nurse, dentist, veterinarian, podiatrist, optometrist, scientific investigator or, subject to s. 448.21 (3), a physician assistant, or other person licensed, registered, certified or otherwise permitted to distribute, dispense, conduct research with respect to, administer or use in teaching or chemical analysis a controlled substance in the course of professional practice or research in this state. 961.01(19)(b)(b) A pharmacy, hospital or other institution licensed, registered or otherwise permitted to distribute, dispense, conduct research with respect to or administer a controlled substance in the course of professional practice or research in this state

 

 

First lets notice the "or" after scientific investigator. To me it reads that a practitioner is a physician.... scientific investigator or a physicians assistant licensed "in this state."

 

The or shows that the "in this state" portion covers the part after the or in reference to the assistants having to be licensed "in this state" This does not mean that a Michigan Doctor has to be licensed on Wisconsin for a prescription to be legal there, otherwise anyone with ANY prescription from out of state would be breaking the law.

 

Elsewhere in Wisconsin law...

448.01(5)(5)  "Physician" means an individual possessing the degree of doctor of medicine or doctor of osteopathy or an equivalent degree as determined by the medical examining board, and holding a license granted by the medical examining board.

 

 

My doc is a physician in fine tooth legal speak, and a physician is a practitioner. My freedom also hinges on the word "or" and the phrase in this state. Well....

 

 

 

 

 

We first look to the language of a statute and attempt to interpret it based on "the plain meaning of its terms." State v. Williquette, 129 Wis. 2d 239, 248, 385 N.W.2d 145 (1986). Only when statutory language is ambiguous may we examine other construction aids such as legislative history, scope, context, and subject matter. State v. Waalen, 130 Wis. 2d 18, 24, 386 N.W.2d 47 (1986). A statute is ambiguous if reasonable persons could disagree as to its meaning. Williquette, 129 Wis. 2d at 248.

 

 

The law doesn't seem too ambiguous, bit I don't really expect leo to be reasonable so...

 

 

¶7. As noted above, if the statute is clear and unambiguous, we need not look beyond the statutory language to ascertain its meaning. However, we may construe a clear and unambiguous statute "if a literal application would lead to an absurd or unreasonable result." Coca-Cola Bottling Co. of Wis. v. La Follette, 106 Wis. 2d 162, 170, 316 N.W.2d 129 (Ct. App. 1982).

 

Expecting anyone from out of state to see a Wisconsin doctor to legally carry doctor prescribed (or recomended) medicine in that state is beyond absurd.

 

 

Seems pretty clear and straight forward to me, but this is all research I have done on my own, we shall see where it goes. If it is as simple as it seems, then the paraphernalia charge is inconsequential. But just as an added measure....

 

961.571 - ANNOT.A tobacco pipe is excluded from the definition of drug paraphernalia under sub. (1) (b) 2. The presence of residue of a controlled substance in the pipe does not change that result. State v. Martinez, 210 Wis. 2d 396, 563 N.W.2d 922 (Ct. App. 1997), 96-1899.

 

Ever try to buy a marijuana pipe somewhere? You can't. That would be against the law. Head shops sell tobacco pipes. They paste signs all over saying tobacco only, you leave if you mention illegal things etc. I should be able to go the shop I got it from and get some photographs proving it is sold as a tobacco pipe, they have more of the exact same pipe for sale there.

 

 

Thoughts or feedback please!

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Not a prescription.

Not a licensed practitioner that handles Schedule drugs, ie doctor, nurse, pharmacist.

 

Your ability to plead down to misdemeanor is because of your prior drug offenses, your penalties are due to your prior drug offenses.

 

You should have gotten a lawyer rather than counting down the days on a public forum.

 

If also appears that you had the pipe and marijuana in a bag, on your person. Thats a pretty easy line for an officer to try for DUID - as you have them within reach. Next time travelling, you should have locked it in a air tight container, and locked it in a trunk. This would have kept YOU from smelling like marijuana, it would have been a further stretch for the officer to ask to inspect containers in your trunk - a safety inspection only allows the officer to check within reach of the driver and passenger.

 

A search incident to arrest or inventory search would have found a container in your trunk, but without probable cause to beleive it contained anything illegal - they could not get a warrant to open it. The container needs to be small enough to be 'harmless' (meaning too small for a machinegun or $300,000 in cash) and LOCKED.

Hidden Compartments are considered illegal in many states, your vehicle can be seized if one is found. A hidden compartment is simply a hide created to hide contraband or weapons from LEO.

 

I have travelled all over USA and other countries. The headlight was a bad luck thing, but the steps to put your meds in a locked, airtight container in the trunk is not a difficult thing to do - after all you only needed to use your meds when you arrived at your designation, not while driving right?

 

All else fails, stay out of wisconsin - buy cheese elsewhere.

 

-DN

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Thanks for the tip on traveling with it in the future, those are very good ideas that I will put to use. Also, I do have an attorney, I just figured some people here may be able to help me point him in the right direction. The more effort I put in, the better I feel because I'm already familiar enough with the system to know that my freedom is infinitely more important to me than any attorney, especially a court appointed one. Im reviewing all the law I can, talking to all the professionals that I can. I also thought maybe someone here might know a few statute or previous cases that may help. I wish I had the money for the NORML hotshot I wanted, but it is what it is now. Please ignore my second post in this thread, I posted the wrong section of the law. Everything posted after that should be correct as far as I know.

 

 

 

 

"obtains the substance or the analog directly from, or pursuant to a

 

 

valid prescription or order of, a practitioner who is acting in the

 

 

course of his or her professional practice"

 

I realize that I do not have a prescription, but what is the paperwork that i filled out to get my card? It should qualify as a valid doctors order.

 

We first look to the language of a statute and attempt to interpret it based on "the plain meaning of its terms." State v. Williquette, 129 Wis. 2d 239, 248, 385 N.W.2d 145 (1986). Only when statutory language is ambiguous may we examine other construction aids such as legislative history, scope, context, and subject matter. State v. Waalen, 130 Wis. 2d 18, 24, 386 N.W.2d 47 (1986). A statute is ambiguous if reasonable persons could disagree as to its meaning. Williquette, 129 Wis. 2d at 248.

 

Seems like if they try for an absurd or overly technical definition, this statue would protect me.

 

 

 

Thanks for any and all imput.

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  • 1 month later...

Its gone both ways already....

 

http://wislawjournal.com/2010/04/26/outofstate-prescription-no-defense-to-marijuana-charge/

 

Wisconsin Law Journal

Out-of-state prescription no defense to marijuana charge

by: admin

A prescription from an out-of-state doctor for medical marijuana is no defense to an illegal possession charge.

Section 961.41(3g) permits possession of controlled substances if it is obtained pursuant to a valid prescription from a “practitioner.” But, the Wisconsin Court of Appeals read the definition of “practitioner” in sec. 961.01(19)(a) narrowly to include only physicians licensed “in this state.”

Accordingly, the court held on April 20, “Having failed to allege or demonstrate his California physician met that definition, [the defendant] failed to show he met the sec. 961.41(3g) exception for possession pursuant to a valid prescription or order.”

Michael Kettner was arrested in 2009 in Grand Chute for possessing two grams of marijuana and two pipes. He was cited under Grand Chute’s municipal ordinance prohibiting possession.

At trial, Kettner stipulated he possessed the marijuana and pipes, but presented a medical authorization to possess marijuana, signed by a licensed California doctor.

The circuit court held that Kettner as not entitled to the benefit of the California laws, because he was not a California resident when he received his medical authorization.

Kettner appealed, and in an unpublished one-judge opinion, Judge Michael W. Hoover affirmed in part, and reversed in part.

Section 961.41(3g) provides, “No person may possess or attempt to possess a controlled substance … unless the person obtains the substance … directly from, or pursuant to a valid prescription or order of, a practitioner who is acting in the course of his or her professional practice…”

The court concluded that, on its face, this statute does not criminalize the possession of marijuana if the defendant has a valid out-of-state order for it.

Reading the provision in tandem with sec. 961.01(19)(a), however, the court concluded that Kettner’s possession was illegal.

That statute provides, “‘Practitioner’ means … [a] physician … licensed, registered, certified or otherwise permitted to … dispense … a controlled substance in the course of professional practice … in this state (emphasis added by court).”

Accordingly, the court held Kettner could validly be convicted of violating the state statute.

However, Kettner wasn’t charged with violating the state statute, or a municipal ordinance explicitly adopting that section. Instead, Grand Chute drafted its own possession ordinance.

That ordinance provides, “No person shall possess any amount of marijuana … unless the substance was obtained directly from, or pursuant to, a valid prescription or order of a license[d] physician … for a valid medical purpose. Their marijuana in possession should be consistent with the amount needed for personal use only, and not in an amount that is intended for distribution.”

Notably, the ordinance does not limit the definition of “licensed physician” to those licensed in Wisconsin, as the state statute does. Because Kettner was charged with violating the Grand Chute ordinance rather than the state statute, the court reversed the conviction.

Case analysis

Because the charge is a municipal forfeiture, the appeal was heard by only one judge and is ineligible for publication. As a signed unpublished opinion, it can be cited for its persuasive value only.

But should any prosecutor attempt to do so, the defense can rebut the argument, merely by printing, in full, sec. 961.01(19)(a), on which the court relied.

The opinion prints only a partial definition of “practitioner,” with several sets of ellipses. But the inclusion of ellipses changes the meaning.

The definition included in the opinion provides, “‘Practitioner’ means … [a] physician … licensed, registered, certified or otherwise permitted to … dispense … a controlled substance in the course of professional practice … in this state (emphasis added by court).”

In full, the statute provides, “‘Practitioner’ means: … A physician, advanced practice nurse, dentist, veterinarian, podiatrist, optometrist, scientific investigator or, subject to s. 448.21 (3), (http://nxt.legis.state.wi.us/nxt/gateway.dll?f=templates&fn=default.htm&d=stats&jd=448.21%20) a physician assistant, or other person licensed, registered, certified or otherwise permitted to distribute, dispense, conduct research with respect to, administer or use in teaching or chemical analysis a controlled substance in the course of professional practice or research in this state.”

The more reasonable interpretation of the statute is that a “practitioner” is one of the following: a physician, advanced practice nurse, dentist, veterinarian, podiatrist, optometrist, or scientific investigator, wherever licensed; or a physician assistant or other person licensed “in this state” under sec. 448.21(3).

To read the statute otherwise would create absurd results. Under the court’s interpretation, a resident of Iowa, who obtained a prescription for any controlled substance from an Iowa doctor, would be in violation of the law if he crossed into Wisconsin with his prescription, merely because his doctor is not a physician licensed in Wisconsin.

The Legislature could not have intended such a result, and the language of the statute does not compel such a result.

The more natural reading, and the more reasonable one, would apply the term “in this state,” only to that part of the definition coming after the first “or,” and not to the listed practitioners preceding the “or.”

 

 

I have to explain to the court that the word "or" is a conjunction used to link alternatives, thus a Michigan or Cali Doctor is legal. Its been done before ...

 

http://www.immly.org/tv27_wi_mmj_loophole.htm

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