Jump to content

Can Caregivers Grow With Cashed Check Stub?


jacaec20002

Recommended Posts

Also, MDCH might say you are good to grow after 20 days. They are being very irresponsible saying that since they are not even looking at the forms in that time frame. Of course it is possible that your form is not right. In that case you are not good to grow. MDCH isn't the one going to court. You can't sue them for bad advice. They really suck saying that you are good to grow after 20 days. That would be an individual choice thing, not good to grow for every patient. I believe they only said it to take the heat off of themselves for their lack of due diligence getting the cards out. They just make it worse saying you are good to grow in 20 days. Injury on top of insult.

 

 

If you dont get a denial letter within 15 days(21 with weekends,etc) you are legal, it is the law, if they dont process it before that alotted time your paper work becomes your card! and You are legal as long as you have a dr. that is willing to testify for you in court and dont go over the limits!

 

Merry Christmas

Peace

FTW

Jim

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Change Forms are not addressed in the law. The MDCH's administrative rules address a change in status indirectly; they don't come out and use the term "Change Form," the rules only state that the MDCH must be notified of changes.

 

An "Application" or "Renewal" is addressed in the law, and the 20-day rule is applied.

 

No where in the law does it state that a Change Form is considered the "new card" after 20 days. People need to understand that MDCH views its responsibilities (and the concept of paperwork = card after 20 days) differently when it comes to Change Forms. There is no basis in the law or rules to conclude that a Change Form = the card after 20 days, since it doesn't fall under the definition of an application or renewal.

 

True about change forms.

 

HG was saying that every single time the MDCH denied an application it was past the 15 days.

 

That is 100% wrong.

 

Can anyone come up with a single example of where the MDCH denied an application or renewal after the 15 days?

 

The MDCH claimed before congress that they never had. Were they presenting congress with false information?

 

I'm not asking for him to back up the absurd claim that they fail the 15 day thing every time. I just asked him to show one single time that happened. Just one time.

 

Just one single example.

 

Can anyone provide one single example of that taking place?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Change Forms are not addressed in the law. The MDCH's administrative rules address a change in status indirectly; they don't come out and use the term "Change Form," the rules only state that the MDCH must be notified of changes.

 

An "Application" or "Renewal" is addressed in the law, and the 20-day rule is applied.

 

No where in the law does it state that a Change Form is considered the "new card" after 20 days. People need to understand that MDCH views its responsibilities (and the concept of paperwork = card after 20 days) differently when it comes to Change Forms. There is no basis in the law or rules to conclude that a Change Form = the card after 20 days, since it doesn't fall under the definition of an application or renewal.

 

 

all changes are good 20 days after check is cashed, once you are approved, you are approved for the year, your card has an expiration date, if you change your c.g, or adress, or who possesses plants, your paper work is legal and your card is legal till the new one comes!

 

 

Peace

FTW

Jim

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you dont get a denial letter within 15 days(21 with weekends,etc) you are legal, it is the law, if they dont process it before that alotted time your paper work becomes your card! and You are legal as long as you have a dr. that is willing to testify for you in court and dont go over the limits!

 

Merry Christmas

Peace

FTW

Jim

 

A doctor willing to testify is not a requirement to have a ID card.

 

The ID card makes you exempt from arrest and prosecution. If you are exempt from prosecution, there is no case for the doctor to testify at.

 

The 21 day old paperwork IS an ID card.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Happy Guy

True about change forms.

 

HG was saying that every single time the MDCH denied an application it was past the 15 days.

 

That is 100% wrong.

 

Can anyone come up with a single example of where the MDCH denied an application or renewal after the 15 days?

 

The MDCH claimed before congress that they never had. Were they presenting congress with false information?

 

I'm not asking for him to back up the absurd claim that they fail the 15 day thing every time. I just asked him to show one single time that happened. Just one time.

 

Just one single example.

 

Can anyone provide one single example of that taking place?

Every single one was backdated to cover their lies. Can you understand that? There are countless examples of people getting denied after 15 days. Their letter is always backdated. Why do you side with the lying MDCH and not with patients that get their denial letter late?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

all changes are good 20 days after check is cashed, once you are approved, you are approved for the year, your card has an expiration date, if you change your c.g, or adress, or who possesses plants, your paper work is legal and your card is legal till the new one comes!

 

 

Peace

FTW

Jim

 

I had an issue with MDCH missing my Change Form in their stack of papers. They finally found the lost Change Form and assured me that they would process it immediatly. In an email to Melissa Peters of the MCDH, I asked "Can you please reply to this email with a statement that you did get this Change Form more than 20 days ago so I can show compliance with the 20-day rule?"

 

She emailed back with the statement (more or less) "The MDCH does not recognize the '20-day rule' when it comes to Change Forms. Seek legal advice."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A doctor willing to testify is not a requirement to have a ID card.

 

The ID card makes you exempt from arrest and prosecution. If you are exempt from prosecution, there is no case for the doctor to testify at.

 

The 21 day old paperwork IS an ID card.

 

 

If he has to fight an a.d case and he used a traveling clinic, he aint gonna have a dr. to come and testify!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I had an issue with MDCH missing my Change Form in their stack of papers. They finally found the lost Change Form and assured me that they would process it immediatly. In an email to Melissa Peters of the MCDH, I asked "Can you please reply to this email with a statement that you did get this Change Form more than 20 days ago so I can show compliance with the 20-day rule?"

 

She emailed back with the statement (more or less) "The MDCH does not recognize the '20-day rule' when it comes to Change Forms. Seek legal advice."

 

 

I was in the middle of change c.g form when I got a possesion charge, I had my card that said I had a c.g, I used it, that is my card till my changed card arrives!

At least that is how it worked for me, you will still have the same pt number and your card is legal even if it is going thru the system for a change!

 

Peace

FTW

Jim

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Every single one was backdated to cover their lies. Can you understand that? There are countless examples of people getting denied after 15 days. Their letter is always backdated. Why do you side with the lying MDCH and not with patients that get their denial letter late?

 

Now you're claiming that the date on the letter would be invalid.

 

Look .. they have claimed that is what they do. I've seen no case where a patient application was denied after the twenty days.

 

If such cases are out there then we need to present that information to a few congressmen. They are interested. They would be even more interested to find out they had been lied to by the MDCH.

 

If they were doing this, I would be one of the fist to start making phone calls.

 

I just haven't heard of a single case like that. If they are doing something right, I'll say so. Why would that be a problem?

 

I figure it's only fair because I'm willing to put my face before congress and tell congress where the MDCH is screwing up. When that is taking place.

 

In addition I try to give people a realistic picture of what to expect. I spend a lot of time here, in case you didn't notice. New people are asking questions all the time.

 

The MDCH has assured congress, the courts, the police and the mmj community that there are no denial letters of applications after the fifteen day mark.

 

These are statements that should be able to be used in court. These statements should be good enough for police.

 

Some police and prosecutors use the logic that there is no way to tell if the MDCH is about to deny an application. They say all kinds of things to try to negate this form of medical marijuana ID card. Fewer and fewer of them are trying to pull it off. Yet this is still far from being the universal conception. For those that still try to find any loopholes they can use against us, the first thing they do is question the authenticity of the paperwork. We know for a fact, that legally we are able to trust what the MDCH is on record about. We can know that if we haven't received that denial within 20 days that we can legally begin to grow.

 

You seem to claim that we can't trust the 20 day rule. Yet I haven't seen one single example of what you claim takes place every time.

 

I know that you are in error about this taking place every time. If it has taken place, then I'd really like to know about it. I might have to modify what I tell folks. So since you popped up with that "every time" I figure you might know of one.

 

We have been told several times that the 20 day rule is something we can count on. And they are right about no legal requirement to do the 20 day thing on a change form. I think. Phaquetoo brings up a very good point that should be looked at closer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I had an issue with MDCH missing my Change Form in their stack of papers. They finally found the lost Change Form and assured me that they would process it immediatly. In an email to Melissa Peters of the MCDH, I asked "Can you please reply to this email with a statement that you did get this Change Form more than 20 days ago so I can show compliance with the 20-day rule?"

 

She emailed back with the statement (more or less) "The MDCH does not recognize the '20-day rule' when it comes to Change Forms. Seek legal advice."

 

When was this?

 

The MDCH is authorized to charge fees for applications and renewals. If the change form isn't a application, then they need to pay people back for fees they have not been authorized to collect.

 

I'm pretty sure that there are many courts (yes not every one) that would view the form to change caregiver as an application.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now you're claiming that the date on the letter would be invalid.

 

Look .. they have claimed that is what they do. I've seen no case where a patient application was denied after the twenty days.

 

If such cases are out there then we need to present that information to a few congressmen. They are interested. They would be even more interested to find out they had been lied to by the MDCH.

 

If they were doing this, I would be one of the fist to start making phone calls.

 

I just haven't heard of a single case like that. If they are doing something right, I'll say so. Why would that be a problem?

 

I figure it's only fair because I'm willing to put my face before congress and tell congress where the MDCH is screwing up. When that is taking place.

 

In addition I try to give people a realistic picture of what to expect. I spend a lot of time here, in case you didn't notice. New people are asking questions all the time.

 

The MDCH has assured congress, the courts, the police and the mmj community that there are no denial letters of applications after the fifteen day mark.

 

These are statements that should be able to be used in court. These statements should be good enough for police.

 

Some police and prosecutors use the logic that there is no way to tell if the MDCH is about to deny an application. They say all kinds of things to try to negate this form of medical marijuana ID card. Fewer and fewer of them are trying to pull it off. Yet this is still far from being the universal conception. For those that still try to find any loopholes they can use against us, the first thing they do is question the authenticity of the paperwork. We know for a fact, that legally we are able to trust what the MDCH is on record about. We can know that if we haven't received that denial within 20 days that we can legally begin to grow.

 

You seem to claim that we can't trust the 20 day rule. Yet I haven't seen one single example of what you claim takes place every time.

 

I know that you are in error about this taking place every time. If it has taken place, then I'd really like to know about it. I might have to modify what I tell folks. So since you popped up with that "every time" I figure you might know of one.

 

We have been told several times that the 20 day rule is something we can count on. And they are right about no legal requirement to do the 20 day thing on a change form. I think. Phaquetoo brings up a very good point that should be looked at closer.

 

P.B I agree.

I have not been in a case denied either! In fact I heard of one that didnt get a card or a denial, and when it all got straightened out the pt got a year and a half expiration date, unlike the rest of us who actualy only had the plastic 6 months at most while being legal with paper!

 

PB your a Great Guy! and Im honored to have some one like you. with your knowledge, experience,(sorry every one) looks also, You totaly look and are The person Im proud to have represent our communtiy!

 

I dont always agree with you. obviously! but that dont take away the respect and Thanks I have for you!

 

God Bless You and Yours during this Holiday Season!

 

Merry Christmas!

Peace

Free The Weed!

Jim

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When was this?

 

The MDCH is authorized to charge fees for applications and renewals. If the change form isn't a application, then they need to pay people back for fees they have not been authorized to collect.

 

I'm pretty sure that there are many courts (yes not every one) that would view the form to change caregiver as an application.

 

This was June I think.

 

Recognizing that MDCH didn't say that the 20 day rule didn't apply, they just said they don't have a position on it, I decided to look at this a little closer. Change Forms are not addressed in the Act at all, but they are addressed in the rules. The Rules state that a patient application or renewal = the card after 20 days, but the concept of a Change Form in addressed in another section, and the summary there is that a patient must notify MDCH if they change caregivers.

 

That's it. Patient must notify MDCH if they change CGs.

 

So there is no merit to the position that a properly completed Change Form even has to be 20 days old. If the Change Form isn't an "Application" then there is no need or reason to wait 20 days. It would be a notice.

 

Unless you consider it an "Application," then it seems it is clear that the 20-day rule would apply. Funny that the Change Form doesn't refer to itself as an application...but the Caregiver Attestation does refer to itself as an application. So can we tie that together???...Caregiver Attestation is an "Application" and since it is submitted for approval or denial, the the MDCH's *15 days to approve or deny an "Application"* certainly applies.

 

This would make sense. The patient already has a card, so he isn't the Applicant. It is the CG who is applying. Therefore, per the Rules, the Change Form/Attestation for the CG would have to = the card after 20 days??

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Happy Guy

A friend of mine got his denial about 3 months after he sent in the application. It was denied because of a mistake on the form.

What moron would believe that MDCH looks at all the information on the forms and validates them in 15 days but they have to wait 100 to send out a card? You would have to be the stupidest activist in the world to think that they look at all those apps in 15 days. And to think that just because they didn't look at it in 15 days it gets an automatic pass. Smell the coffee will ya? I really don't know how to get you to WAKE UP!

 

Just for laughs, to lighten up the place.... If MDCH looks at all our forms in 15 days so they can be denied, what do they do for the other 85? :lol: Think about that just for a second.

 

I didn't win this arguement, common sense won it for me. LOL 15 days..... that's a joke. But it does explain the back dating. Everyone that has gotten a card knows that MDCH back dates to make themselves look better and in compliance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A friend of mine got his denial about 3 months after he sent in the application. It was denied because of a mistake on the form.

What moron would believe that MDCH looks at all the information on the forms and validates them in 15 days but they have to wait 100 to send out a card? You would have to be the stupidest activist in the world to think that they look at all those apps in 15 days. And to think that just because they didn't look at it in 15 days it gets an automatic pass. Smell the coffee will ya? I really don't know how to get you to WAKE UP!

 

Just for laughs, to lighten up the place.... If MDCH looks at all our forms in 15 days so they can be denied, what do they do for the other 85? :lol: Think about that just for a second.

 

I didn't win this arguement, common sense won it for me. LOL 15 days..... that's a joke. But it does explain the back dating. Everyone that has gotten a card knows that MDCH back dates to make themselves look better and in compliance.

 

We both know that the MDCH opens up those envelopes very quickly. We know that they cash the checks.

 

If they open the envelopes they have to use some method to identify the application to have a fee paid with it. They obviously don't just toss the applications into a pile for the next four months. If they did that, they would have no indication left to tell them who forgot to include a check. All of this implies data entry. At a minimum they enter a name and payment into their data file. They double check to determine if the check amount is correct, as a minimum, if the applicant is applying for the reduced fee.

 

Do you know of anyone where they didn't cash the check within that fifteen days?

 

How about you just think for a second.

 

You question my defending the MDCH. You don't understand. I still haven't gotten to round two on this issue.

 

But since you insist .. There is evidence that the MDCH opens every application within a couple of days from the time they receive the application. They cash the checks. They claim they review every application within the required fifteen days.

 

So why does the MDCH take four months after that to issue the ID card?

 

Malice. Pure state issued malice.

 

Do you understand where I'm coming from now? I believe they intentionally break the law to expose us to false arrest.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Happy Guy

We both know that the MDCH opens up those envelopes very quickly. We know that they cash the checks.

 

If they open the envelopes they have to use some method to identify the application to have a fee paid with it. They obviously don't just toss the applications into a pile for the next four months. If they did that, they would have no indication left to tell them who forgot to include a check.

 

Do you know of anyone where they didn't cash the check within that fifteen days?

 

How about you just think for a second.

 

You question my defending the MDCH. You don't understand. I still haven't gotten to round two on this issue.

 

But since you insist .. There is evidence that the MDCH opens every application within a couple of days from the time they receive the application. They cash the checks. They claim they review every application within the required fifteen days.

 

So why does the MDCH take four months after that to issue the ID card?

 

Malice. Pure state issued malice.

 

Do you understand where I'm coming from now? I believe they intentionally expose us to false arrest.

Alrighty then! Did you have to call me a liar in your intricately played BS story and supposed plan to kick MDCH's butt? First, you say I lie because MDCH doesn't lie. Then you flip flop and say they are the liars. You need to admit you were wrong and apologize for calling me a liar.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Alrighty then! Did you have to call me a liar in your intricately played BS story and supposed plan to kick MDCH's butt? First, you say I lie because MDCH doesn't lie. Then you flip flop and say they are the liars. You need to admit you were wrong and apologize for calling me a liar.

 

You attacked me here. Many times in many ways.

 

You seem to have taken on the job of being my "nay-sayer." petty BS.

 

I haven't said they are liars. I've said their claims are true.

 

If you assume they didn't lie, then that supports the idea that they are intentionally breaking the law against us.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A friend of mine got his denial about 3 months after he sent in the application. It was denied because of a mistake on the form.

What moron would believe that MDCH looks at all the information on the forms and validates them in 15 days but they have to wait 100 to send out a card? You would have to be the stupidest activist in the world to think that they look at all those apps in 15 days. And to think that just because they didn't look at it in 15 days it gets an automatic pass. Smell the coffee will ya? I really don't know how to get you to WAKE UP!

 

Just for laughs, to lighten up the place.... If MDCH looks at all our forms in 15 days so they can be denied, what do they do for the other 85? :lol: Think about that just for a second.

 

I didn't win this arguement, common sense won it for me. LOL 15 days..... that's a joke. But it does explain the back dating. Everyone that has gotten a card knows that MDCH back dates to make themselves look better and in compliance.

 

 

you need to open up your eyes!

 

They cash your check within days of receiving it..do you think they just toss your app out in the garbage? wtf you think they do when they open that app?

 

and Im sure they have more records to look at now with the traveling cirucuses going around and giving any one with 200 bucks a rec!

 

you prob dont even have your first card yet or maybe you got ur rec from the traveling circus!

 

Peace

FTW

Jim

 

if what you have is common sense, I will take uncommon sense! :sword:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Happy Guy

Look, the answer is so simple. They are logged under and do what they can when they can. When they are late they back date. Why can't you accept that? You would rather call me a liar and say that my friend is made up and he didn't get his denial letter late. That is crazy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Happy Guy

you need to open up your eyes!

 

They cash your check within days of receiving it..do you think they just toss your app out in the garbage? wtf you think they do when they open that app?

 

and Im sure they have more records to look at now with the traveling cirucuses going around and giving any one with 200 bucks a rec!

 

you prob dont even have your first card yet or maybe you got ur rec from the traveling circus!

 

Peace

FTW

Jim

 

if what you have is common sense, I will take uncommon sense! :sword:

Take a breath. LOL I saw Dr. Eisenbud(THCF) on 12/4/08. I'm a 4/20 patient in the very first group. Look at my MMMA card in my avatar, it's number 7. The 7th MMMA card ever made.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Take a breath. LOL I saw Dr. Eisenbud(THCF) on 12/4/08. I'm a 4/20 patient in the very first group. Look at my MMMA card in my avatar, it's number 7. The 7th MMMA card ever made.

 

I guess you rode the bus with me.

 

Wonderful .. what name did you use back then?

 

Your current persona has less than 300 posts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Happy Guy

I guess you rode the bus with me.

 

Wonderful .. what name did you use back then?

 

Your current persona has less than 300 posts.

Same name I used when I started one of the very first compassion clubs in the state in early 09.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...