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Airstones And Ph Rise... My Test Results

pipefitterman
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pipefitterman Advanced Member

pipefitterman

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after a lot of surfing and actual book reading i discovered that airstones contribute to ph rise by bubbling the natural acids from the water. the explanations were a lot more in depth then mine but that is the but of it. so i ph'd two 5 gal buckets of water to 5.5 and put a recirculating pump in one (without a airstone), and one with just a airstone in it. I checked the ph in 2 hours and the one with the recirculating pump was 5.7 and the one with the airstone (i turned off the airstone during ph test) was 6.9 so i waited another 2 hours (total of 4 hrs) and the one recirculating was still 5.7 and the airstone was 7.5. i was amazed so i let it go overnight checked it in the am (12 hrs total) and the one recirculating was 5.6 and the airstone was 7.7. i am convinced from this test, next water change i will be replacing the airstones in my res with a recirculating pump and making a run of it, i will be watching closely.

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knottwhole Advanced Member

knottwhole

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Sorry, but I've been using air-stones in 5 gallon buckets for more then a while.

What is the temperature of your bucket water when testing ph? Makes a difference.

What nutrients are you using? Makes a difference.

What is the oxygen concentration of the water? Makes a difference.

I'm not trying to be harsh, but air-stones themselves, are not the problem.

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ricardomd Advanced Member

ricardomd

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wow... i didnt post this to start a debate, its just something i stumbled on and tried along with my results... nothing more!

Just wondering if the initial run with the air stones had some residual chemical from manufacturing. Maybe re-run the tests after a couple of days of circulation through the air stones. Just saying there has to be more to this then just air. R

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Grow Thread Advanced Member

Grow Thread

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i have years of bubble experience that says you and your books are both wrong.

 

like yourself, i am NOT trying to argue...... but i figure i have been bubbling for about 4 years now. my plant count in cali was higher than it is here..... carry the one..... add the six...... probably over 1,200 plants grown in bubbles in that amount of time.

 

maybe 5 or 6 different kinds of airstones.... 3 different kinds of pumps..... 5 or 6 different nutrient brands...... clear tube, blue tube, black tubing.... totes and buckets both..... from many different manufacturers.

 

once again, NOT trying to argue..... just wanted to post MY TEST RESULTS.

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boroboro Advanced Member

boroboro

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after a lot of surfing and actual book reading i discovered ....

I had to reply just to acknowledge that phrase, "actual book reading" -- funny stuff!

 

 

Thanks for the experiment pipefitterman.  I wonder if the results were influenced by:

 

  1. Water type.  Tap?  Well water?  Rerverse Osmosis?
  2. PH Down.  What did you use to adjust PH?

 

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michiganmedclones Advanced Member

michiganmedclones

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wow... i didnt post this to start a debate, its just something i stumbled on and tried along with my results... nothing more!

 

 

Not trying to debate with you I was just offering my own findings as well as asking you questions about your own expiriment. I also use airstones obviously and if they did influence PH then I'd like to know thats all.

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Grow Thread Advanced Member

Grow Thread

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LMAO..... everybody is always wrong, cept the same 10 peeps on this site whom are always right! i know there are alot of variables but i put a airstone in water and the ph climbed, EXPLAIN IT TO ME PLEASE!!!!

 

the simple fact of the matter is that the amount of oxygen in clean water does not affect the hydrogen ion concentration.... and therefore cannot affect ph. that, my friend is scientific fact.

 

NOT FROM THE SAME 10 PEOPLE ON THIS SITE..... ITS FACT.

 

today is saturday in north america, it's just shortly after noon, and the amount of oxygen in water doesnt affect ph...... all facts.

 

what pump, tube, stone, water are you using? all new??

 

i have never had a problem with a stone off-gassing or secreting any leftover chemicals, but i do soak mine for 15-20 mins in clean r.o. water first just to be sure.

 

the amount of oxygen in a water/nutrient mix "can" play with your ph. in this case, oxygen can react with the nutrient/water mix and create carbonic acid. THIS can play with your ph...... which is why it is suggested to let your nutrient/water mix sit for 24 hours with air a bubbling airstone. after 24 hours you may then adjust your ph to the proper levels and grow.

 

this of course depends on what nutrient program you are using.

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pipefitterman Advanced Member

pipefitterman

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the simple fact of the matter is that the amount of oxygen in clean water does not affect the hydrogen ion concentration.... and therefore cannot affect ph. that, my friend is scientific fact.

 

NOT FROM THE SAME 10 PEOPLE ON THIS SITE..... ITS FACT.

 

today is saturday in north america, it's just shortly after noon, and the amount of oxygen in water doesnt affect ph...... all facts.

 

what pump, tube, stone, water are you using? all new??

 

i have never had a problem with a stone off-gassing or secreting any leftover chemicals, but i do soak mine for 15-20 mins in clean r.o. water first just to be sure.

 

the amount of oxygen in a water/nutrient "can" play with your ph. in this case, oxygen can react with the nutrient/water mix and create carbonic acid. THIS can play with your ph...... which is why it is suggested to let your nutrient/water mix sit for 24 hours with air a bubbling airstone. after 24 hours you may then adjust your ph to the proper levels and grow.

 

this of course depends on what nutrient program you are using. there is no fluctuation in ph using the lucas method and r.o. water. many others you will find fluctuation..... but as far as clean water..... no..... the amount of oxygen diffused in the water will not affect ph.

 

 

dont get me wrong BG, i respect you and your writings as well as the other 9 peeps ;) soooooo i just took a fresh, clean 5 gal bucket and added 5 gal of stored tap water to it,,, ph was 6.3, i left it at 6.3, i put a airstone in it and within 3 or 4 seconds it started to climb, in 2 minutes it was 7.7,,, within 15 minutes it was 7.8,,, so i guess i am seeing things then if it is not possible. I seen this on another site and thought it was very interesting to say the least. "there is another factor to take into account the small scale production of carboxilic acid. ie: the more amount of co2 absorbed by the water from atmosphere the lower the ph will go. bubbling air or o2 in the water displaces more co2 causing the ph to rise as the natural acid is removed."

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Broken Advanced Member

Broken

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Strange that your findings are different then everyone elses. I have a recirculating pump from prior experiments with a flood and tray table that i plan on using to keep my ro water fresh... do you check the ppm before and after use? that to me would be equally interesting.

 

I am glad that you solved your problem though, seems to work now right?

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Grow Thread Advanced Member

Grow Thread

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just a little add on... dont believe EVERYTHING you hear.... thats why i commented on this thread in the first place. i can publish anything i want on the internet... true or not. with enough money, i can have a book FULL BOOK of my own thoughts and opinions..... doesnt mean anything at all.

 

what matters is years and years of personal experience...... something most of the 10 of us that answer all the time have.....

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solabeirtan Advanced Member

solabeirtan

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OK Let's try to figure this out, as I'm with PipeMan, though I rarely experience pH in the 7's if I let it go 3 or 4 days it might go that far off.

 

I know as last time I ran the ezCloner I had it all set up with water pH it to 5.6 went to bed. In the morning the meters' still on reading 5.6 so I turn on the air pump only, H2O's still not circulating I go get a fistfull of cuttings come back to plant them and my waters up to 5.9 allready. Everyday(almost ) I jack it back, next day its 5.9 or over. Miss a day its 6.1 - 6.3 ... over and over and ...

 

 

Funny because this happens in the ebbNflo but with the AF2(-aero/rdwc) the pH drifts down.

 

 

So theoretically if I recycled those two Ress' (40g + 50g) they should Balance out ? [Not Proven, yet]

 

Hey KnottWhole how do you measure Oxygen Content? It might be related. I think it is about how much Hydrogen is in the mix is how the pH meters work ....

 

.... its all about the Balance ...

 

 

 

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knottwhole Advanced Member

knottwhole

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Hey KnottWhole how do you measure Oxygen Content? It might be related. I think it is about how much Hydrogen is in the mix is how the pH meters work ....

.... its all about the Balance ...

I've been fortunate to have access to a lab at the local college (student) and a great teacher.

I did a test of R/O water with the lucas formula. The five gallon bucket was filled with 3 1/2 gallons of the nutrient solution and 2, 1 inch air diffusers supplied with 8 liters per minute of standard room air. PPMs averaged around 9 which works out to about a 85% saturation at 68 degrees. I use the small 1 inch air-stones because they're dirt cheap and will usually last at least four weeks. I don't own a meter but they are available online starting around $40.

A good article about oxygen saturation and how to calculate it can be found here: http://www.waterontheweb.org/under/waterquality/oxygen.html

Pay close attention on how temperature affects oxygen saturation. You'll quickly see why reservoir temperatures affect growth.

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Royal Smoke Advanced Member

Royal Smoke

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I am a dirt grower and I've used those red clay stones just on the surface to better keep moisture consistent throughout the container. Are those read clay stones what is called an "air stone"?

 

Nope. I think you are referring to Hydroton. The air stones can be found in the pet section at stores. They are used in fish tanks.

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BubbleBerryKush Advanced Member

BubbleBerryKush

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there are many factors....did you soak and clean the air stone...the tubing...the bucket it self...just because its a new bucket does not mean its clean, there could be residue on anyone of the parts or tubing.....

 

I have never had ph jump up with my bubble system...also if you are using hydroton, soak it and rinse it (I personally rinse and dry hydroton 2 or 4 times before use if its new, and everyone has their own way of cleaning "TON")

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