350 Bars Are Going To Allow Smoking Tonight

[imiubu]

That really is a sticky point. Workers have to right not to be exposed to carcinogenic gas.

 

I still contend that businesses could have helped the situation. I was in a cigar store today that has a smoking lounge. You can't smell one bit of that smoke in the main part of the store and there were three or four guys I could see back there smoking. The right floor plan and smoke eaters with the air being replaced in the room often can make it tolerable. But restaurants did not do that.

Given the direction the "non-smoking" movement was headed, most businesses chose not to

make the necessary alterations to accommodate both. Maybe due to lack of funds (imagine that)

or what ever the reasons, this just wasn't done.

 

I don't care for individual liberties being controlled by gov for any reason.

 

No matter where you are tonight, have fun and be safe everyone.

[StonedPlanet]

It all boils down to the freedom of choice!

You can choose NOT to go to a bar that has smoking.

 

Smokers can NOT choose to go to a bar that has smoking.

 

 

Another fact: Smokers generate TONS of tax money every year! How will the loss of that be compensated? They will raise the tax on something else, or create a new tax that will involve you!

 

First they came for the hackers.

But I never did anything illegal with my computer,

so I didn't speak up.

 

Then they came for the pornographers.

But I thought there was too much smut on the Internet anyway,

so I didn't speak up

 

Then they came for the anonymous remailers.

But a lot of nasty stuff gets sent from anon.penet.fi,

so I didn't speak up.

 

Then they came for the encryption users.

But I could never figure out how to work PGP anyway,

so I didn't speak up.

 

Then they came for me.

 

And by that time there was no one left to speak up.

[imiubu]

It all boils down to the freedom of choice!

You can choose NOT to go to a bar that has smoking.

 

Smokers can NOT choose to go to a bar that has smoking.

 

 

Another fact: Smokers generate TONS of tax money every year! How will the loss of that be compensated? They will raise the tax on something else, or create a new tax that will involve you!

 

First they came for the hackers.

But I never did anything illegal with my computer,

so I didn't speak up.

 

Then they came for the pornographers.

But I thought there was too much smut on the Internet anyway,

so I didn't speak up

 

Then they came for the anonymous remailers.

But a lot of nasty stuff gets sent from anon.penet.fi,

so I didn't speak up.

 

Then they came for the encryption users.

But I could never figure out how to work PGP anyway,

so I didn't speak up.

 

Then they came for me.

 

And by that time there was no one left to speak up.

 

[DenturesLost]

"You can't win this argument and you know you can't." - I'm not arguing, so you are right. I see both sides.

No you don't. The one side is you feel a nonsmoking rule impinges on your liberty to decide to smoke. You also feel that a bar owner should be able to decide whether smoking should be allowed on his/her private property. And if it is decided to allow it then you have a liberty as to whether to patronize the place. However, what about the liberty of the workers in the bar? That's just pushed aside? They are just seen as having a liberty as to whether they CHOOSE to work there. It isn't considered a career job so maybe they are only there temporarily anyway, right? Maybe they should get a job at walmart to pay the bills right? Afterall walmart DEFINITELY doesn't allow smoking...

 

We all have liberties in this country but they are balanced against other's liberties when the exercise of OUR liberties impinge on others'. If we lived in anarchy then we would have a true supply/demand system. If we didn't want to breathe your smoke we would stay out of the bar or not work there. So why can't GM only provide the safety gear it WANTS to provide on its own private property? Afterall no one is FORCED to work there. Why do presses have to have safety switches and riding lawn mowers have deadman switches? Why are dropside cribs outlawed? Why, why, why??? Evenflo or Graco or whatever company manufactures the dropside crib should just have to put a disclaimer on the box to remove their liability. "These cribs could kill your baby." Right? Why get the government involved? Well, because we are a democracy and not a bunch of anarchists. We have decided that, to a certain extent, we should regulate certain things to make the world here safer for everyone. We have decided that individual liberties should be balanced. People at GM shouldn't have to worry that they will end up with mesothelioma after 20 years making thingymabobs. People at 3M shouldn't have to worry about getting cancer after 10 years of making sticky notes. People who wash dishes in a bar shouldn't have to worry about lung cancer after 15 years of menial work. Bottom line.

[+420Atheist]

It all boils down to the freedom of choice!

You can choose NOT to go to a bar that has smoking.

 

Smokers can NOT choose to go to a bar that has smoking.

 

 

Before the law non smokers could not choose to go to a bar that was non smoking.

 

This is not just a matter of one sides personal liberty vs. another. Both sides have a claim to their rights being infringed. The best solution would have been to regulate the smoking areas to make a real separation. However the bars did not want to do that and would not compromise. There might be a lesson there somewhere.

 

Though I could make the argument that there is a way for bars to have smoking areas. They could have a private club area that allowed smoking. And one could argue that is the business owners choice not to build that area.

[Retta]

The casinos in Detroit got together and fought for smokers, the bar owners did not, I quit giving my money to establishments that allowed another freedom to be taken away from me. How many freedoms are going to be taken? What's next? When smoking was allowed a restaurant on Van Dyke went nonsmoking and was out of business in 3 months, a casino in Vegas named Silver City did same thing and was gone in 6 months, the way to reverse this is for smokers to boycott all bars and restaurants in MI for at least a month. If you pay attention to the doorways at most bars you will see the bartenders and waitresses standing outside with a cigarette in their hand so I don't think to many are worried about second hand smoke.

[Mememe]

No you don't. The one side is you feel a nonsmoking rule impinges on your liberty to decide to smoke. You also feel that a bar owner should be able to decide whether smoking should be allowed on his/her private property.

 

Uh...no. You have no idea how i feel or what I see. You just know what words I put on the screen.

 

 

You said it right here "We have decided that, to a certain extent, we should regulate certain things to make the world here safer for everyone."

 

 

Edited to +1 Retta

[+420Atheist]

At this point this discussion has gone full circle.

 

Smokers think their right to smoke over rides non smokers right to breath clean air.

 

Non smokers think their right to breath clean air over rides smokers right to smoke where ever they want to.

 

Does my right to urinate in the pool over ride your right to not swim in my urine?

[Kingdiamond]

Cigarettes are filthy and nasty and Ive watched a love one die from lung cancer i hope each and everyone of these bars get fined for breaking this law i worked security at a bar just outside of Detroit every night id come home coughing up second hand looogies and as far as this law hurting business ?

 

I doubt it i stopped in this same bar a couple weeks back there were more people there than i ever saw while i was an employee.

[xxsesimeseedxx]

Just because you quit does not mean you can't support the freedoms of other smokers!

With most freedoms under attack lately we should be sticking together and not just support the causes that "don't affect me"...

 

You have a right to kill yourself, NOT OTHERS. Smoke your cancer sticks outside, and if its too cold, DONT SMOKE!

[Irishgreen]

At this point this discussion has gone full circle.

 

Smokers think their right to smoke over rides non smokers right to breath clean air.

 

Non smokers think their right to breath clean air over rides smokers right to smoke where ever they want to.

 

Does my right to urinate in the pool over ride your right to not swim in my urine?

 

[StonedPlanet]

To those who do not want to breath my second hand smoke, do NOT drive your car down my street! I don't want to breath the exhaust!

[phaquetoo]

I Quit smoking a year and a half ago and I am happy that I dont no more. I think it should be up to the bar owner to decide if smoking is allowed. To tell you the truth all the bars I frequent still allow you to smoke. Sure they give you a dixie cup with water and warn you to put it out or down when a costomer comes through the door but they are still smokeing in bars.

 

Thanks

Wozer

 

 

From what i know of this law, is the business establishment just has to put no smoking signs up(i beleive they cant supply ashtrays either) but it is the person smoking that gets fined! if I was a bar owner, Id have some kind of cans around for people to put there cig buts in, and Id hang signs but I wouldnt tell any one they can or can not smoke, I would tell them I wont call the police on you! smoke at your own risk! Im a smoker, I have been trying to quit, and Im not going to stop trying to quit, but when we go to restruants or are stuck in a drs office for a long time, we have one of those 15 buck throw away electric cigs, you get about 300 puffs from it, they dont taiste the best but they do give you your fix when you need it, If i was a bar person still, i would just smoke them maybe go outside once in a while for a real cig!

 

It dont realy matter to me about the law! and im a smoker!

 

Happy New Years!

Peace

FTW

Jim

[impatient]

To those who do not want to breath my second hand smoke, do NOT drive your car down my street! I don't want to breath the exhaust!

 

Amen!

And those "prohibitionists" better quit using their gas-powered lawnmowers, leaf blowers, snowblowers, etc. I don't want to breathe their smelly, oily exhaust either! As a compromise they could be permitted to run those indoors in an enclosed, locked facility! Ha ha.

[mibrains]

i absolutely do support the cause. and feel like if u wanna smoke, please feel free to do so. just don't do it in public near me! just like MM i wont be smoking it in public, or bothering others. if a facility or club want to open and be private for smokers...i feel like they could. otherwise keep it out of public, and out of my nose and off my cloths.

 

Just because you quit does not mean you can't support the freedoms of other smokers!

With most freedoms under attack lately we should be sticking together and not just support the causes that "don't affect me"...

[StonedPlanet]

i absolutely do support the cause. and feel like if u wanna smoke, please feel free to do so. just don't do it in public near me! just like MM i wont be smoking it in public, or bothering others. if a facility or club want to open and be private for smokers...i feel like they could. otherwise keep it out of public, and out of my nose and off my cloths.

 

The same goes for those who wear cologne or perfumes! if you can smell a fragrance then you are breathing a chemical into your body. Stay away from me! I do NOT want to breath chemicals that are suspects to the state of California to cause brain cancer and SIDS. Is second hand smoke linked with SIDS? NOPE! Cologne and perfume sure is though! Keep using those "air fresheners" in your house! Keep using your colognes and perfumes! You are more likely to develop brain cancer, asthma, or other breathing ailments up to and including death! Think I am joking? Google it! Febreeze should be sued for claiming to be "a breath of fresh air" when it is nothing more than chemicals that kill you!

 

I am not saying that you wear cologne but if you do, you are killing everyone around you much faster than second hand smoke!

If you drive through a neighborhood you are killing people probably faster than second hand smoke! Can you sit in a garage with the doors closed and run your car without dying? You could smoke pack after pack in that same closed garage and still be able to breath!

 

Most of the people who are so against second hand smoke are nothing more than a hypocrite!

[Kingdiamond]

To those who do not want to breath my second hand smoke, do NOT drive your car down my street! I don't want to breath the exhaust!

Yet those of us who must earn a living by working in these bars should cater to your addictions and join in are you going to pay for my lung transplant because of your 2nd hand smoke?

 

If so smoke em if ya gotem.

[phaquetoo]

Yet those of us who must earn a living by working in these bars should cater to your addictions and join in are you going to pay for my lung transplant because of your 2nd hand smoke?

 

If so smoke em if ya gotem.

 

 

Why do you have to work in bars? why do you have to work anywhere that smoking is allowed?

I dont buy because there are no other jobs! be a cook, be auto worker, oops skip that one!

I was self employed most of my adult life! I taught myself a skilled trade! I am a regular average man, If I can work and earn a living myself so can everyone else in this world as far as im concerned, If I can do it, so can every one else, im not better than anyone else, I have been disabled since may of 98 and I still get calls for my work!

 

I smoke, but like said earlier I realy dont care about the law, ok i cant smoke when i go out to eat, I dont do bars any longer,(i used to dj and karaoke host on the side) oh well, I couldnt smoke in most places any how for yrs! when i was growing up, if you didnt smoke you were the minority! now it is the other way around!

 

What i think is funny is the legalize mm something every one thinks we only smoke, and they pass a law that says you cant smoke cigs in public places!

I bet alot of you people bitching about 2nd hand smoke, smoke weed, not vape, not medibles, SMOKE IT! I know weed does more damage to my lungs than cigs do if smoked the same way! Pretty soon they will ban electric cigs in public to, and that is vaporized,,weed will be next! how cant it be?

 

Ok im ducking start shooting!

 

Peace

FTW

Jim

[+420Atheist]

To those who do not want to breath my second hand smoke, do NOT drive your car down my street! I don't want to breath the exhaust!

 

It is not your street. And I agree we need to find a emission free vehicles. Until those are created society can't operate without transportation. Realize we all require transportation to live. I don't know anyone who has a self sufficient piece of property. So that is a case where everyone shares equally in inconveniencing everyone else. That is not the same as 25% of the people being able to fill the air with a carcinogenic substance for the other 75% to breathe.

[bobandtorey]

Yet those of us who must earn a living by working in these bars should cater to your addictions and join in are you going to pay for my lung transplant because of your 2nd hand smoke?

 

If so smoke em if ya gotem.

 

 

lucky strikes no strikes back

[Big J]

We vote for people who appoint others to speak for us. Unfotunatley, they lie to us from the very begining.

No we vote for who the two parties allow us to vote for. They groom the people they are going to allow us to vote for in college and some earlier depending on who their families are. Someone that comes up on their own are called independents and rarely are elected. We should vote on all laws then there would be no need for politicians.

[+420Atheist]

No we vote for who the two parties allow us to vote for. They groom the people they are going to allow us to vote for in college and some earlier depending on who their families are. Someone that comes up on their own are called independents and rarely are elected. We should vote on all laws then there would be no need for politicians.

 

 

All from wealthy families. It is no coincidence that so many presidents have come from Skull and Bones. Who is shocked that both Kerry and Bush were members? You shouldn't be. It's called hedging the bet.

 

Since 1960 the average household works twice as many hours per week but their income buys 1/3 of what it used to. The rest of it is made up for in credit cards and huge mortgages. But our work is even more valuable than it was in 1960 since productivity has increased by 50%. Where is all that other money going. Well wall street is one place with all the credit card debt and mortgages but the other place is since 1960 CEO wages have increased by 1000%. Freedom has become an illusion created by the elite ruling class.

[DenturesLost]

To those who do not want to breath my second hand smoke, do NOT drive your car down my street! I don't want to breath the exhaust!

Down your street? So If I don't drive my car down your street then you agree not to smoke and drive down mine? Make some sense. There is a huge difference between smoking inside an enclosed building and smoking outside. Go ahead and smoke outside where the smoke dissipates. Second hand smoke causes a heck of a lot more health problems than you breathing the outside air, regardless of car exhaust. Otherwise the cancer rate of nonsmokers would be equal to smokers.

 

It's awfully selfish of you to decide that it is okay for you to soil the lungs of a worker in a bar because you think you should have some "choice" to do that. Should they be able to work in a clean and healthy environment? Why should their working conditions be WORSE than some industrial worker who spraypaints steering wheels for GM?

[StonedPlanet]

It is not your street. And I agree we need to find a emission free vehicles. Until those are created society can't operate without transportation. Realize we all require transportation to live. I don't know anyone who has a self sufficient piece of property. So that is a case where everyone shares equally in inconveniencing everyone else. That is not the same as 25% of the people being able to fill the air with a carcinogenic substance for the other 75% to breathe.

 

EVERYTIME you step onto an airplane you are giving off more toxins than I probably ever will my entire life with second hand smoke!

 

It is not MY street just like it is not YOUR bar.

Its too funny how the same EXACT people who want to scream about second hand smoke are polluting the air for everyone in a much worse way and will continue to do so..

 

Anyone who says that we are "forcing" them to breath our second hand smoke is blowing smoke up their own arse! YOU chose to work at a bar (known for cigarette smoke).. Did you choose to work at a NON-SMOKING bar? YOU made the choice to work there and now you make the choice to whine about it.

 

Step into reality and stop taking civil liberties from the citizens of America! Open your own NON-SMOKING establishment instead of being a little ****h about it.

 

the following are MUCH worse than second hand smoke:

automobile exhaust

jet fuel exhaust

most industries

colognes and perfumes

camp fires

 

 

I say it again, EVERYTIME you step onto an airplane you are giving off more toxins than I probably ever will my entire life with second hand smoke!

[StonedPlanet]

Should they be able to work in a clean and healthy environment?

They can! All they have to do it CHOOSE to work in a clean and healthy environment! They made the choice to work at the bar! The saying goes "it stinks like a bar in here" for a reason! They made the choice to work in the smoke filled bars!

 

 

How are we supposed to get fresh air ANYWHERE when everyone is polluting it on a constant basis? And again, you put your concern to second hand smoke! Its more like "hey guys there are more non-smokers now, lets throw rocks at those who still smoke!"..

 

Keep up your little second hand smoke campaigns! Meanwhile industry is literally killing us all with the air we breath OUTSIDE! Not to mention the outside air is supposed to be the "fresh air" for your home!