Any One Use Organic Tea ?

[lwheidt]

I make tea all the time. I use pretty similar ingrediants as everyone else. I would like to make a few points.

I use a 5 gallon bucket. I really believe that tea is the best thing you can feed your plants if they are in soil. Plants that are in a greenhouse or vegetable plants outside respond to this tea like nothing else. The key to tea is that you are feeding the soil. When your soil is alive more nutrients are available. So, using tea is a natural part of growing organically. So, use only organics if you use tea to keep everything as alive as possible.

 

1. Airstones are really useful. They also get a thick layer of gunk on them after a few uses that should be cleaned off once in a while. And, given that they only cost $1.50 you can always replace em if they get too gunky. I seriously disagree that one should just use the hose with no airstone. In fact the bigger the airstone the better.

 

2. Don't skimp on the compost or castings. These are the key to making a good tea because they provide the bacteria that is benefical. I use 4 cups a gallon.

 

3. There is no reason to use too much blackstrap. I have talked with a tea brewing company in Humboldt and they say that 1-2 tablespoons is plenty per 5 gallons. If you want the best buds don't cheap out, get an organic unsulfured blackstrap.

 

4. Only add mycorrizal fungus right before you water. The benefical bacteria will eat the spores if given enough time in a bucket.

 

If you aren't sure what else to add to your tea, just use earth juice or other 100% organic grow and bloom nutes. There are lots of good things you can add to your tea, but I wouldn't reccomend expiermenting with all kinds of stuff. I use guanos, because guano plus tea really seems to produce nice tasting buds. I wouldn't add bone or blood meal to my teas because they are nasty even without being brewed.

 

I think the best tasting herb is flushed even in soil, so I stop using tea 2 weeks before the end of flowering. The buds will be extra sweet but not better if you use tea right up until you harvest.

[MightyMightyMezz]

I began brewing teas when I started using earth juice nutes to bring up the ph. I use a gallon milk jug with the top cut off. I find air stones to be useless, they just muck up. I use three pumps with just the airhose, feed the hoses through the handle so they stay in the bottom and just spread them out, it has enough air and stirs enough on its own to stay aerobic. Last couple runs Ive been amending the guanos and kelp, ect. into the soil with layers and spikes, still feeding ewc teas, and am getting better results than I ever had with just feeding teas. Good thread on IC https://www.icmag.co...ad.php?t=189681

 

This is where I am headed - creating a supersoil that needs only water/ewc tea. Been studying this one and learning a lot this week. Icmag.com Tea Article

[the budman]

Plants love nothing better than a soil with everything they need in it. All I can say is to start with the basics (subcools ss usually) and keep experimenting. Look up microorganism collection, plant specific, bamboo, indigenous. Then you move into making L.B. and extracts. I personally think we have just begun to tap into the art of growing organically. Keep it clean, keep it green fellow microherd wranglers.

 

Budman

[DavidRaven]

Been using teas on my frst indoor grow (I'm a guerilla guy from way back when), got my card in August and started building my rooms. Both actively aerated compost tea (AACT), and guano teas. Supplemented with Oregons Only Organics Nectar of the Gods line of products. I usually rotate these three.

 

Topped and fimmed early. Vegged for 3 months, then a minor bonsai like training of the multiple stems to allow light to the center when moved to the flower room. Three strains, Jock Horror (Sativa dominant) Snow White (F1 White Widow hybrid) and The Purps (from BC Bud Depot). 6 weeks into flower and the buds look and smell wonderful.

 

Veg likes bacteria dominant teas, flowering likes fungi (such as mycorhizal)dominated teas. Now I don't have a powerful enough microscope to verify the bacteria/fungi ratios, but what I do is add the molasses later during the brew cycle to get less bacteria. AACT's are great to build the microherd. Guano teas provide higher levels of nutrients, micronutrients and trace elements. AACT's can be brewed in as little as 12 hours (more fungi) or as long as you want as long as you keep feeding the carbs (molasses or other organic carb supplements) and keep the tea aerated.

 

My typical brew for AACT is:

 

3 gallons RO water

1 cup worm castings (WC)

1 cup Alaskan hummus (AH)

1/2 cup kelp meal (KM)

1/2 cup alfalpha meal (AM)

3 Tsp Fulvic acid

3-5 capfuls of Thrive w/Mycor (not Superthrive, that is a hormone supp)

 

2-3 TBS molasses (put in at start or up to 4 hours before end of brew cycle depending on you bac/fung ratio desires)

 

I put the WC, AH, KM and AM in a cut off pair of panty hose.

5 Gallon bucket, two fish tank pumps each with one air stone, and a fish tank heater

 

For Guano teas, same recipe but I add presoaked (I soak it in warm water) Guano, type based upon plant stage NPK requirments.

I always add CaMg to all teas at end just before application because I use RO. My Purps struggled mid veg until I started this.

I always measure PPM's and PH. I try not to adjust PH of my teas unless it is over 7 or under 5.7, and then only use an organic PH up or down.

 

Also the book "Teaming with Microbes" is extremely informative if you are serious about teas and organics.

 

PM me if you have specific questions. If yield is your priority, then go for the chems, but I've got big fat stinky, sticky buds loaded with trichomes, and I'm very happy with my yield. My deal is flavor and taste (jar curing helps here to of course).

 

DavidRaven

[Glacier Hills]

1337, now that I think about it I have mycorrizae already in the form of fresh homemade worm castings. I've been feeding them scraps for nine months and am now able to harvest castings at will. Today I made one of my first teas with homemade ewc plus I added it to the medium during a transplant today. Hopefully they go crazy about it. I'm pretty sure it's way better than store-bought ewc, probably because it can only harbor far greater beneficial bacterial/fungal growth.

not sure I understand you correctly here. are you saying that fresh worm castings are a source of mycohorizal? how does a worm produce a fungus? did you add mycorhizal supplement to your compost? please enlighten me about this as I compost and vermicompost.It is a great ingredient for the tea though, most grow stores sell a powder form/culture.

Edited February 6, 2011 by Glacier Hills

[Glacier Hills]

..

Edited February 6, 2011 by Glacier Hills

[MightyMightyMezz]

not sure I understand you correctly here. are you saying that fresh worm castings are a source of mycohorizal? how does a worm produce a fungus? did you add mycorhizal supplement to your compost? please enlighten me about this as I compost and vermicompost.It is a great ingredient for the tea though, most grow stores sell a powder form/culture.

 

How they do it I don't know exactly, but that's what I "heard." The first hit on Google says:

 

http://www.wormswork...ycorrhizae.html

Fortunately these tiny mycorrhizae are plentiful in worm castings and although there are commercial sources of mycorrhizae rich compounds being sold by farm ...

 

 

 

Miss D at wormdigest.org said:

 

I've done a lot of research on this, and while I don't know for sure if VC contains the actual fungus per se, but as I understand, it does contain Mycorrhizal fungi spores.

 

From what I've read, Mycorrhizals live around plant roots, where they form a relationship with the plants, and act as an extension of the roots themselves. Perhaps a worm bin environment would not be as suitable for the fungus to thrive as say, in a garden? So I would assume, that if you were to use VC on your garden plants however, you would be thereby innoculating the plants with the fungal spores.

 

This is the reference I had bookmarked:

(maybe you've already read it?)

http://www.revitalfe...geID=2145820807

 

 

 

Here's another article I found: http://www.thirdcoas...il-Biology.html

 

It really isn’t important whether the compost was made through thermal processes or through worm action. It just has to be aerobically made and be chock full of good- guy bacteria, fungi, protozoa, and nematodes.

Edited February 6, 2011 by MightyMightyMezz

[TheGanz]

Mezz, Do you use any type of micro nutrient?

[Glacier Hills]

thanks mmmz. kinda says what I was driving at. worm casting from soil where the fungus already live would have spores... makes scene.

 

does not mean my casting do contain it though. no plants living in my compost, so no myco activity unless it is added on purpose. might do this to my finished compost. seems like a good Idea.

 

all in all earthworm castings are not a definitive source for mycorrhizal activity but it is possible they could be present in wild collected castings. not all that likely in home vermiculture in my opinion.

Edited February 6, 2011 by Glacier Hills

[Glacier Hills]

Heres a good read about using tea to combat brown slime in DWC and RDWC I found a couple weeks a go. if you use these systems this is "Must Know " info.

 

 

http://www.rollitup.org/dwc-bubbleponics/361430-how-breed-your-own-beneficial.html

Edited February 6, 2011 by Glacier Hills

[MightyMightyMezz]

thanks mmmz. kinda says what I was driving at. worm casting from soil where the fungus already live would have spores... makes scene.

 

does not mean my casting do contain it though. no plants living in my compost, so no myco activity unless it is added on purpose. might do this to my finished compost. seems like a good Idea.

 

all in all earthworm castings are not a definitive source for mycorrhizal activity but it is possible they could be present in wild collected castings. not all that likely in home vermiculture in my opinion.

 

I put my roots into the worm bin after harvesting a plant. I don't know how much fungal activity is going on in my root zone and my bin without a microscope, but I bet there is some. I did see a white substance at the base of a stem that I thought looked like some kind of mycelium. This is all new to me and I have a lot to learn so I appreciate your wisdom.

 

Here is an interesting site I found: http://invam.caf.wvu.edu/collection/generalinfo%5Cgeneralinfo.htm

 

GENERAL INFORMATION

This collection was the brainchild of Dr. Norman Schenck. A professor of plant pathology at the University of Florida and a long-time mycorrhizologist, Dr. Schenck had a vision to create a living culture collection to preserve valuable germplasm and make this germplasm available to researchers and the public. In 1985, he received funding from the National Science Foundation (NSF) and created the International Culture Collection of VA Mycorrhizal Fungi (INVAM). He served as curator of the collection for five years until his retirement in 1990.

 

Upon Dr. Schenck's retirement, 182 isolates in the collection were moved to West Virginia University and merged with a local collection maintained by Joe Morton. NSF has continued to fund the collection for approximately $100,000 per year (with 42-46% of this routed to the university for "overhead"). Grant cycles (renewals) were as follows:

 

• 1990-1995 with a one year budgeted extension in 1996
• 1997-2000 with a supplement in 2001
• 2002-2006

Mission Statement To acquire, propagate, characterize, and maintain germplasm of arbuscular mycorrhizal fungi in living cultures for preservation and distribution to any person or institution

Edited February 8, 2011 by MightyMightyMezz

[MightyMightyMezz]

Mezz, Do you use any type of micro nutrient?

 

I'm not sure. Does kelp count? I know it has lots of trace minerals and things.

Edited February 8, 2011 by MightyMightyMezz

[MightyMightyMezz]

Been using teas on my frst indoor grow (I'm a guerilla guy from way back when), got my card in August and started building my rooms. Both actively aerated compost tea (AACT), and guano teas. Supplemented with Oregons Only Organics Nectar of the Gods line of products. I usually rotate these three.

 

Topped and fimmed early. Vegged for 3 months, then a minor bonsai like training of the multiple stems to allow light to the center when moved to the flower room. Three strains, Jock Horror (Sativa dominant) Snow White (F1 White Widow hybrid) and The Purps (from BC Bud Depot). 6 weeks into flower and the buds look and smell wonderful.

 

Veg likes bacteria dominant teas, flowering likes fungi (such as mycorhizal)dominated teas. Now I don't have a powerful enough microscope to verify the bacteria/fungi ratios, but what I do is add the molasses later during the brew cycle to get less bacteria. AACT's are great to build the microherd. Guano teas provide higher levels of nutrients, micronutrients and trace elements. AACT's can be brewed in as little as 12 hours (more fungi) or as long as you want as long as you keep feeding the carbs (molasses or other organic carb supplements) and keep the tea aerated.

 

My typical brew for AACT is:

 

3 gallons RO water

1 cup worm castings (WC)

1 cup Alaskan hummus (AH)

1/2 cup kelp meal (KM)

1/2 cup alfalpha meal (AM)

3 Tsp Fulvic acid

3-5 capfuls of Thrive w/Mycor (not Superthrive, that is a hormone supp)

 

2-3 TBS molasses (put in at start or up to 4 hours before end of brew cycle depending on you bac/fung ratio desires)

 

I put the WC, AH, KM and AM in a cut off pair of panty hose.

5 Gallon bucket, two fish tank pumps each with one air stone, and a fish tank heater

 

For Guano teas, same recipe but I add presoaked (I soak it in warm water) Guano, type based upon plant stage NPK requirments.

I always add CaMg to all teas at end just before application because I use RO. My Purps struggled mid veg until I started this.

I always measure PPM's and PH. I try not to adjust PH of my teas unless it is over 7 or under 5.7, and then only use an organic PH up or down.

 

Also the book "Teaming with Microbes" is extremely informative if you are serious about teas and organics.

 

PM me if you have specific questions. If yield is your priority, then go for the chems, but I've got big fat stinky, sticky buds loaded with trichomes, and I'm very happy with my yield. My deal is flavor and taste (jar curing helps here to of course).

 

DavidRaven

 

Thank you. Helpful and concise!

[Glacier Hills]

bunch of info on that last link mezz, I don't know how vital any of that is to a grower but it was cool to see so much info and the amount of diversity.

Seems to me a sure fire, fool proof way to inoculate your root zone is through a tea brewed with a purchased culture.

http://fungi.com/mycogrow/index.html

 

Paul Stamets has been in this business for longer than any one. if there is one culture to rely on it would be his. it would make a lot of sense to add part of this brew to your compost pre worm bin. if you dont compost and vermi separately than there is no reason not to add the tea (Sparingly) or dry culture straight to your worm farm. brewing it for 2 days with an air stone and black strap molasses would seem to be the most advantageous.

 

 

David RAVEN. Thanks a bunch for your input. Excellent first post and WELCOME! to the forum, we need more guys like you here.

[Chicodog1]

The cool has been very bad for tea brewing !

Its not BREWING for me!

Frustrating

SGS has a gallon with container for 5 bucks and green thumb has it for 7.95. I use the TEA for BT that kills any critters that come from FoxFarm soils. FoxFarm quality has taken a huge downturn. Since they moved operational facilities to NC they are no longer a company I can use.

Edited February 9, 2011 by Chicodog1

[gardenlover]

Hey mezz, I never really though of Mycorrhiza being associated with worm casting but it dose make perfect sense! I grow by trying to imitate nature as close as possible, and if you think about it everything in nature seems to fit so well together because it was made to fit together over years of evolution. So it really dose make fantastic sense to relate the Mycorrhizal to worms. Think about it they travel through and around the root zones of many plants, what more perfect method of transportation for Mycorrhizal? I would put money down that there is some type of important relationship b/t the two, maybe the proteins on the worm preserve the Mycorrhizal or help to attach them or .... you get the idea.

 

Anyway I did not put the old roots in my worm bin, only back in the recycles soil. But because Mezz pointed this out I am for sure going to start throwing them to the worms! keep the ideas coming everyone!

[DavidRaven]

Thanks for the thanks. I stand on the shoulders of others as I've done a lot of research on the Internet and reading basic organic gardening information. It's a little more work than hydro when doing containers and hand watering only. I'm considering a drip system for seedling stage because those smaller containers dry up almost daily (my seedling box is only 2x4). I'm thinking the teas may need to be strained through something like cheese cloth to remove the undissolved solids to keep the drip system from clogging. The beneficial microbes will slip through.

 

I end up in 5 gal containers in flower (I veg for 2-3 months). A drench in those can last 3-4 days depending on the stage of flowering. I've noticed less water usage in the final weeks. Also I got real concerned about my fan leaves going pale to yellow about 3 weeks into flower. But after much discussion with some Oregon hippies who are way into organics, they said that is a good thing as the plant is using up its stored nitrogen which helps with flavor and aromatics (deep discussions on terpinoids can be foound on organic grow sites) and they said they should be dead yellow at harvest time.

 

My first strain to finish (a 7-8 week flower period according to breeder) is near the end of week 7 and the trichomes are extremely plentiful and getting cloudy.

Edited February 12, 2011 by DavidRaven

[Glacier Hills]

Hey mezz, I never really though of Mycorrhiza being associated with worm casting but it dose make perfect sense! I grow by trying to imitate nature as close as possible, and if you think about it everything in nature seems to fit so well together because it was made to fit together over years of evolution. So it really dose make fantastic sense to relate the Mycorrhizal to worms. Think about it they travel through and around the root zones of many plants, what more perfect method of transportation for Mycorrhizal? I would put money down that there is some type of important relationship b/t the two, maybe the proteins on the worm preserve the Mycorrhizal or help to attach them or .... you get the idea.

 

Anyway I did not put the old roots in my worm bin, only back in the recycles soil. But because Mezz pointed this out I am for sure going to start throwing them to the worms! keep the ideas coming everyone!

 

This thing with putting your roots in your worm bins is all fine and dandy but... it is still not a reliable source of mycorrhizae, you may be getting a few tired strains from your old soil and you might get a few strains from your worm castings. Your worm castings will not be passing myco filaments in there waste. it is possible for casting soil to have some spores. keep in mind that there are over 132 known Strains of root attaching mycorrhizae, if you are only limiting your self to a few strains of this wonderful fungi, your missing the boat. My point is, and has been, You need to inoculate your soil with a diverse culture innoculant like the one I posted a link to earlier from Paul Stamets of Fungi Perfecti, if you want to realize the full benefit of this. also you want to brew your mycorrhizal tea separate from a compost tea for best results because the bacteria and fungi will butt heads in the tea brewing stage, once the fungi is established in the soil the bacteria are no longer a problem for the fungi because they are no longer competing for the same foods. hope this shines a little more light on things, also check out the links I posted under "The Dirt" on soil. explaining the soil food web from three different angles.

 

Since this post started off to be about organic teas...

Has any one here tried feeding diluted compost juice? here's how I make it: Take 3-4 LBS. of some aged but not completely composted vegtable matter wet it a bit about a 1/2cup of water and stir it around for a minute. Freeze it for a day. Then thaw it. There will be about a quart of thick juice, pour it off and save it in a tightly closed container and keep it cool. I add about 2 teaspoons or this "compost Juice" per a quart of water, stir and water your plants. easy organic and plants seem to love it.

[garyfisher]

if you feed a tea, how frequently do you feed it. I have read by many people they only need 2 good brewed tea's a grow. Using organic soils with amendments, no meals except kelp.

[DavidRaven]

You are correct some only use a couple aerated compost teas per grow. The key is "amendments". Some soil growers start with "super soil" (search on super cools super soil). Others start with less amended soil. The plant will tell you. I can only specifically speak to my actual experience which is not long, but based on significant research and reading, but my results have exceeded my expectations. If you are only using teas (AACT) to build the microherd, two timea may be enough. I do a compost teat monthly and a guano tea weekly.

 

As I previously mentioned I also use guano teas for adding nutrients based on the plants current needs (seedling, veg, flower, flush). I am also religious about checking PH and PPM's every feeding and watering. I added the commercial organic supplements when moving to flower to be sure I wasn't missing any micro nutrients or trace elements.

 

Anyone can PM me and I'll send you some bud porn.

Edited February 13, 2011 by DavidRaven

[Shredder]

You guys are on the right track, I could nit pick on some of the things posted, but if you really want to learn more on organic growing I (highly)suggest getting the book, Teaming With Microbes and also read the beginners thread and most of the others, in the organic soil section of International Cannagraphic. Sometimes it gets pretty intellectual, and there are sometimes ego related nonsense, but these guys are the real deal in organics. There is more info on growing MJ organically in those threads, than in any book I have ever seen. You may have buzzed through there, but if you really want to learn, spend a few hours/days reading, and you will amaze your friends with your profound knowledge. You may find you can use the weeds in your yard to fertilize your herbs, and kill mites, both systemically through soil drenching, and with foliar applications, all with homemade fermented lavender plant extract (lavender in water and a little molasses, left for a while, filtered) Yep, that simple. Fermented indoor super compost (bakshi). Let worms do your heavy lifting, yes EWC, but don't buy it, make it, much much better, your teas will explode with life. Friends, there is a whole nother world out there.

 

Oh, and before I fade away in a cloud of blue smoke, according to my latest reading, it is best to add guano's as a top dressing, than in a tea. Microscope observation of with guano and without compost tea shows the guano is too hot for the tea microbes and you actually loose some from adding guano. So to get the best of both use separately. I've had good luck adding grow guano right in the soil. For a couple of reasons I don't mix in flower guano to the soil mix. But love it as a top dress around week 3 in flower, I just put a few tbsp in a gallon jug, shake it like crazy then water/feed. It's only partially soluble so most of it takes a while to filter down to the roots, for a nice even feed...............shredder

[Glacier Hills]

 

9 video series all about compost tea.

[gardenlover]

Shredder, I believe Teaming With Microbes is the the one book any organic grow should reed before they even start growing. I just ordered a handful of these to sell at my vegetable stand this summer. Excellent information!!!

 

DavidRaven, Good info buddy, I do something real similar. I alway thought that the fungal dominate teas were more for older growth plants that live a long time. Don't get m wrong, I think that any aaac will only help with the overall process, but what was the reasoning behind wanting to do this later in flower, I am probably just missing something.

 

Glacier, I like organics because of the way everything fits together, I can usually thing about how it would happen in nature and mimic it fairly well indoors, but never perfect. It is obviously a bit harder to see exactly what is going on at this level without the proper equipment, so I have to use the information already published, combined with my owe observation, and my own intellectual ability to weed through what is BS and what seems logical. There is so much crap from marketing agencies and people just making stuff up specifically in this industry. I am not saying this is you, in fact I agree with you. I understand what you are saying but I have already inoculated with bioorganics mycrorrizal and do so every so often. My goal is to not use these off the shelf item that cost and arm and a leg, so if I could inoculate my dirt/ worm casting with commercial mycorrhizal inoculant, or better yet some soil from some area that grows the same types of plants (similar to cannabis in lifcycle) that is supper rich with plant life. Then maintain the myccorrhizal population within your own soil worm casting re-cycling program. I am not saying that this will work for sure but if you don't try you will never know. As much as we think we know about plants and the environment, we really still have a lot to learn.

[Glacier Hills]

GL I totally agree with you, this is all experimental. I am not trying to push the product that I linked at all, there are surely many other inoculates out there and I like the "do it your self" aspect very much too, but this is an area where help from experts is definitely going to do you one better than trying to guess at weather or not you've got enough fungal strains in the mix. you said you are using an inoculate already, I am not saying one is better than the another, the only reason I recommend Pauls products is because I started dealing with him 16 years ago and he has helped me a lot on other projects with growing edible mushrooms. I consider him to be "Thee Source" on fungus as do most the fungus community. the vid (9 totalling 85 minutes) I posted last night, although not high quality is a great resource for some one new to brewing teas. I am no expert I just like to share what I am learning.

[TheGanz]

is molasses the only sugar thats used for teas? I ran out and forgot to pick up some from the store and im wondering if natural, raw, unprocessed honey will work just as good. It it basically sugar that the microbes need?