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Wow I Have Horrible Luck With Patients


BubbleBerryKush

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So as some of you already know, I recently went through a process of cutting a patient off for the suspicion of reselling meds (which I did not want to be a part of). Now I sign up a new patient, and even before I can get him licensed to me via the state, he says the meds are not high enough quality for the price...now the price is $200 a zip, and everyone of my patients knows I am very flexible with situations (2 of my patients get meds for $100 a zip), and the quality is the same top notch stuff he was seeing and medicating with me before.

 

I come to find that he says he knows someone that gets free meds and was thinking of switching.....now I already have my predetermined opinion of GC's that give away free meds, I know that not all are crocked, but I am sure this dude is not on the straight and narrow.....so now I am going to have to make butter, with what I had waiting for him. I keep running into BS....hope it changes for me quick

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Keep your chin up! Sounds very frustrating. . . I don't think your experience is typical. Hopefully, just bad coincidence.

 

Patients expecting something for nothing are out of their mind. I've gone almost 10 years without any health insurance, and have gotten very used to paying full retail for whatever prescriptions I've been prescribed.

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^^^we will never actually find out on this website because no one A) wants to be found out, and B) no one wants to hurt the cause we are all fighting for.

 

but if you have 5 patients and you give them all free meds, unless you are filthy rich, you have to be compensating in some other fashion to cover all your bills.... 72 plants, multiple 1k lights, nutes, timers, pumps, trays, etc... all cost money, how are these people covering their outlay of cash???? These are the people that give us all a bad name, in your case you might be giving away meds to a very deserving patient, hell I have even refunded patients money when I have had a better than expected harvest, but if you get patients under the guise of free meds all the time, than you have to have something going on...

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^^^we will never actually find out on this website because no one A) wants to be found out, and B) no one wants to hurt the cause we are all fighting for.

 

but if you have 5 patients and you give them all free meds, unless you are filthy rich, you have to be compensating in some other fashion to cover all your bills.... 72 plants, multiple 1k lights, nutes, timers, pumps, trays, etc... all cost money, how are these people covering their outlay of cash???? These are the people that give us all a bad name, in your case you might be giving away meds to a very deserving patient, hell I have even refunded patients money when I have had a better than expected harvest, but if you get patients under the guise of free meds all the time, than you have to have something going on...

 

They don't get everything for free, every harvest they get a free sample between 14 and 28 grams. Anything over that they pay around 10 a gram. Anything they don't need I offer to other patients and CGs on a slightly higher price scale becasue I do not have the right to their plants therefore other patients are not contributing to the harvest weight like my 5 patients plants are. It's simple, effective and I have 5 happy patients, as well as other patients I know that are also satisfied with the meds I have shared.

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BBK Yes Stay Up! It will change, because change is the only constant!

 

It is obvious you have a very compassionate heart, but let no one take your kindness as weakness. Everyone knows that positive energy attracts negative, stay alert to guard your self.

 

I also have 5 patients that I care for and it has been the most rewarding experience. They were all complete strangers!!! I clearly stated my prices (250/oz + at least 14g samples every month) so there would be no confusion about money. The samples are great because a few patients use just those and all can find which strain is helpful to them. All my patients get free cooking oil from the trim of their plants. Of course my lowest income patients get even more free meds if they run out. Even shake(not trim) can be highly effective if a patient is absolutely out.

 

I look at any experience as lessons and turn the light of criticism on myself first. I was one who said just keep the original patient because you were not sure he was reselling. A few younger growers I've met (I'm 35 y.o.) say they grow "the best" or they know everything about growing. This is arrogant because there is no "best", you never stop learning, and frankly some growers are producing weak, flavorless medicine, they think its so great! I make sure to get feedback from various patients and caregivers. If you are producing strong, aromatic, beautiful and delicious herbs you will have loyal and extremely thankful patients.

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No meds are free! Someone pays to grow them. Some CG's take a loss while some want to pay for their setup on the first harvest. Some people are actually paying upwards to 20,000 to setup a room or two.. I consider that THEIR investment and it should not reflect on the patient they are growing for.

 

$200/o is a VERY decent price.

 

Sounds like your patients are greedy BBK! :growl: put em in check! let them go find one of those CGs that give free meds then disappear and cant be gotten ahold of around harvest time.. Let them deal with that! :goodjob:

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I must say that my patients have had no complaints with my prices or medicine ranging from free to $250/oz, but I have complaints about a couple of them. They are very lazy and selfish. When they have medicine, I can't get them to do what they are supposed to do. For example: filling out the renewal paperwork properly or mailing it in on time, not letting me handle the paperwork to be sure it is accurate and complete, not telling me they were denied due to a paperwork error, going on several months without having proper paperwork submitted and still expecting to obtain medicine from me. This has caused me much stress.

 

Now I have had to cut down plants, which has disturbed my perpetual grow that took 6 months to get in tune due to their incompetence and yet they still expect me to provide them medicine even though they are no longer fully legal patients.

 

At the beginning they didn't have a problem getting paperwork submitted properly. They all want the whoop. Well I guess they can't handle the whoop, makes them too lazy.

 

One of the patients I had to let go because at Christmas time he continuously asked for 'fronts' beyond what I typically hand out for free to my patients and beyond what I would typically front to any patient. He was going beyond his monthly income in fronts. I became concerned about him having money to provide his family a nice Christmas, and getting deeply in debt to me. I questioned him and he said he didn't care, it was his money and it was none of their or my concern if he had money for presents for the kids or not. Considering his is the only income in the house and he has children, I told him he was going to have to either grow for himself or find a different CG. I cleared him of his debt with me, filled out the change paperwork, and sent him away with a 1/2 oz. and told him not to come back.

 

I completely understand where you are coming from BBK; the stress is making me want to just shut down the whole operation. On the other hand, I have three patients that I am fully satisfied with, and they with me, things are working out great between us. I guess it just takes time to wean through the BS to get reasonable patients.

 

I guess the biggest problem with the two patients that have been a problem for me is that they are friends or at least “were” now, due to them holding a grudge rather than taking responsibility for their actions, it is all my fault and the state’s fault, according to them. I guess it made it easier for them to take advantage, being that we were friends. It is difficult for me to take on a stranger being that I am a woman. I can’t help but to feel nervous and uncomfortable, but I am at the point now where I would consider it.

 

I am glad to know that I am not the only one that has had problems with patients.

 

I apologize for the rant; I guess I just needed to vent a little. I don’t like having to cut down plants after having had 4 months invested into them, to only see them being destroyed in the wood burner.

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^^^we will never actually find out on this website because no one A) wants to be found out, and B) no one wants to hurt the cause we are all fighting for.

 

but if you have 5 patients and you give them all free meds, unless you are filthy rich, you have to be compensating in some other fashion to cover all your bills.... 72 plants, multiple 1k lights, nutes, timers, pumps, trays, etc... all cost money, how are these people covering their outlay of cash???? These are the people that give us all a bad name, in your case you might be giving away meds to a very deserving patient, hell I have even refunded patients money when I have had a better than expected harvest, but if you get patients under the guise of free meds all the time, than you have to have something going on...

 

 

My patients get free meds. I cover my expenses with patient to patient transfers. There is nothing illegal in my operation. I resent the implication that caregivers who give their patients free meds are giving the cause a bad rap. Rather, I suggest that caregivers who charge their patients are without compassion and are really the greedy ones. You may not like what I have just said; however, you have pigeon holed a lot of very compassionate caregivers with this statement,"but if you get patients under the guise of free meds all the time, than you have to have something going on..." You would make appear that I am breaking the law in some way.

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I'll never understand why people think that people like me who give meds to their patients for free are crooked. Makes me want to start charging my patients to be "legitimate" :thumbsd:

 

 

most people say they are in this for compassion and they only do things legaly! any one that gives you their 12 plant grow rights should be helping the c.g and tha pt!

I wouldnt sign one if they didnt give me free meds(a reasonable supply) I cant use all the mm from 12 plants from crop to crop and I dont expect my cg to just sit on it, I do expect him to have 2.5 on hand for me, but that is it, and yes I pay for the 2.5 that is beyond my free zip! or 4 plants in my case! Im not saying all but alot of c.g's that know how to grow! realy know how! can make cash on the 12 plants you give them possesion of! I truly dont care if they sell to dispenses or stand on a street corner getting rid of weed to pay for costs, dont matter to me, im not going to get arrested for somethin my c.g is doing! and I will just find another if said c.g is stupid enough to get caught doing something ilegal!

 

I beleive i can give you one example of a good c.g, Jane Tarzans wife, he has posted many times on here that she gives her pt's a free zip a month,,that is compassion. and I bet she would give said pt more if they needed it and didnt have the cash! nothing wrong with giving some free meds to your disabled pt's who mostly are on ssi or ssdi and cant affore to grow it or buy it on the street or dispenses!

 

keep up the good work mich clones! dont let it get you down, you sound like one of the good ones,,I just ranked you up there with dr.T! as far as im concerned you will have to look long and hard to find a person like him and his better half!

 

Peace

FTW

Jim

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most people say they are in this for compassion and they only do things legaly! any one that gives you their 12 plant grow rights should be helping the c.g and tha pt!

I wouldnt sign one if they didnt give me free meds(a reasonable supply) I cant use all the mm from 12 plants from crop to crop and I dont expect my cg to just sit on it, I do expect him to have 2.5 on hand for me, but that is it, and yes I pay for the 2.5 that is beyond my free zip! or 4 plants in my case! Im not saying all but alot of c.g's that know how to grow! realy know how! can make cash on the 12 plants you give them possesion of! I truly dont care if they sell to dispenses or stand on a street corner getting rid of weed to pay for costs, dont matter to me, im not going to get arrested for somethin my c.g is doing! and I will just find another if said c.g is stupid enough to get caught doing something ilegal!

 

I beleive i can give you one example of a good c.g, Jane Tarzans wife, he has posted many times on here that she gives her pt's a free zip a month,,that is compassion. and I bet she would give said pt more if they needed it and didnt have the cash! nothing wrong with giving some free meds to your disabled pt's who mostly are on ssi or ssdi and cant affore to grow it or buy it on the street or dispenses!

 

keep up the good work mich clones! dont let it get you down, you sound like one of the good ones,,I just ranked you up there with dr.T! as far as im concerned you will have to look long and hard to find a person like him and his better half!

 

Peace

FTW

Jim

 

 

Thanks Jim! I appreciate it, I understand that new CGs cant just set up and start giving away meds right away BUT thats why you should set up your own 12 get that under control and then add 12 at a time. I know someone that got their patient card and sent in that application as well as 5 of his friends all went to the same clinic and they all signed 1 person as their CG. 72 plants in 1 day, holy god what a disaster that was. Anyways I am confident that within 2 years EVERY patient will recieve free meds from their CG atleast 3 times a year. Once everything is set up, CGs have a few grows under their belts and everything is running in order then acheiving a final harvest weight that allows you to give away a small portion of your meds for free will not be an issue. And the people that still refuse to give free meds will be lefts with no patients.

 

Thats my opinion but I think that would be best for everyone anyways

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Guest 1TokeOverLine

I'll never understand why people think that people like me who give meds to their patients for free are crooked. Makes me want to start charging my patients to be "legitimate" :thumbsd:

 

Discussed this with my patients and they are just as confused as I am. We think people are confusing "free" with "breaking even." We agree that the Act is intended to compensate for expense, not make a profit above that. Further confusion seems to exist over "profit", in that the Act doesn't intend to imply that a provider should donate his time for provided assistance, but rather compensate them for their time. Here is where we see ego and greed enter the picture, ego demanding that they have the "best", and greed that they should be able to make profits - clearly in violation of the non-profit intent of the Act - because they feel that they are the "best" grower with the "best" product.

 

Any business model I've seen assumes a break-even analysis of fair compensation over a period of time for the initial investment calculated over the life expectancy of the product demand. This analysis includes real assets, labor and expenses. This is the "break-even point" of the business plan. Now, everyone seems to agree that it takes money to make money and a grow takes a good investment in both property, equipment and experienced workers. Where they seem to be missing the boat is on what they unreasonably expect as a return for their time and effort.

 

After conducting research on the agriculture industry and the pharmacy industry salaries, we are dealing with agriculture and alternative medicine, we found that a Farm Manager earns $38,374 annually (http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Industry=Agriculture/Salary) and a pharmacist enters the field at $80,616. (http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Industry=Agriculture/Salary). Arguably a pharmacist educates on extensive medications, while we deal with a specialized medicine, and pharmacist education counts in the salary computations. Conceding that growing isn't rocket science and doesn't require extensive college educations, we can't reasonably assume to match their expected earnings. However, a nurse trained in holistic and alternative care and medicines can reasonably earn in access of $51,838 annually with a 4-year academic program behind them. (http://www.healthjobsstarthere.com/fields/info/Complementary-and-Alternative-Medicine.html). Armed with this information we can assume a good grower operation would be conservatively worth $90,000 in wages, or $46.27 per hour. (90000/2080=$43.26). (Ie; grower operation: total wages of all workers)

 

Wages being a starting point, we have to consider the rest of the business model, adding startup costs including equipment setup, product acquisition and maintenance, and utilities. Being a "ghetto gardener", my costs have been held in check by supplying my own labor and DIY projects, but many consider $10,000 a fair grow investment.

 

Based on this research, we could realistically expect a growing operation to break even at $90,000 the first year with $10,000 investment recovery in three. Being non-profit this business model assumes fair compensation for wages and overhead, it does not expect a windfall profit as that is illegal in the intent of the Act. We aren't expected to work for nothing or donate equipment and expenses, nor are we expected to reap huge unearned profits off the suffering and disadvantaged in need.

 

That being said, I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, nor the most used, but my perpetual costs me about $5,000 annually to maintain a product investment of $600 a year providing a yeild of approximately 15#. That means to break even and keep me going I'd have to recoup in the neighborhood of $85,000 annually, or $354oz ($12gm). Your mileage may vary depending on management or lack thereof.

 

Now if I was in a non compassionate business this might seem reasonable, however I'm a grower that has always grown his own and have bearing the burden fine for years. Now, the opportunity presents itself to assist others that want to learn and help share in that burden of $466 a month if they can in return for what they consider a miracle. Sharing equally that comes to about $155 a month per share, and we all have a constant supply of quality strains of our choice. Now, to some 6.5 oz a month each won't get you rich, but then, it's not intended to.

 

Am I giving it away? Maybe to some. Does it cost me much more to help out two others, not really. Can I sleep well at night knowing I contributed to the happiness and dreams of a few others? You bet.

 

Just food for thought, flame away money mongers, my patients got me an asbestos suit in appreciation.

 

1T

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Discussed this with my patients and they are just as confused as I am. We think people are confusing "free" with "breaking even." We agree that the Act is intended to compensate for expense, not make a profit above that. Further confusion seems to exist over "profit", in that the Act doesn't intend to imply that a provider should donate his time for provided assistance, but rather compensate them for their time. Here is where we see ego and greed enter the picture, ego demanding that they have the "best", and greed that they should be able to make profits - clearly in violation of the non-profit intent of the Act - because they feel that they are the "best" grower with the "best" product.

 

Any business model I've seen assumes a break-even analysis of fair compensation over a period of time for the initial investment calculated over the life expectancy of the product demand. This analysis includes real assets, labor and expenses. This is the "break-even point" of the business plan. Now, everyone seems to agree that it takes money to make money and a grow takes a good investment in both property, equipment and experienced workers. Where they seem to be missing the boat is on what they unreasonably expect as a return for their time and effort.

 

After conducting research on the agriculture industry and the pharmacy industry salaries, we are dealing with agriculture and alternative medicine, we found that a Farm Manager earns $38,374 annually (http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Industry=Agriculture/Salary) and a pharmacist enters the field at $80,616. (http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Industry=Agriculture/Salary). Arguably a pharmacist educates on extensive medications, while we deal with a specialized medicine, and pharmacist education counts in the salary computations. Conceding that growing isn't rocket science and doesn't require extensive college educations, we can't reasonably assume to match their expected earnings. However, a nurse trained in holistic and alternative care and medicines can reasonably earn in access of $51,838 annually with a 4-year academic program behind them. (http://www.healthjobsstarthere.com/fields/info/Complementary-and-Alternative-Medicine.html). Armed with this information we can assume a good grower operation would be conservatively worth $90,000 in wages, or $46.27 per hour. (90000/2080=$43.26). (Ie; grower operation: total wages of all workers)

 

Wages being a starting point, we have to consider the rest of the business model, adding startup costs including equipment setup, product acquisition and maintenance, and utilities. Being a "ghetto gardener", my costs have been held in check by supplying my own labor and DIY projects, but many consider $10,000 a fair grow investment.

 

Based on this research, we could realistically expect a growing operation to break even at $90,000 the first year with $10,000 investment recovery in three. Being non-profit this business model assumes fair compensation for wages and overhead, it does not expect a windfall profit as that is illegal in the intent of the Act. We aren't expected to work for nothing or donate equipment and expenses, nor are we expected to reap huge unearned profits off the suffering and disadvantaged in need.

 

That being said, I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, nor the most used, but my perpetual costs me about $5,000 annually to maintain a product investment of $600 a year providing a yeild of approximately 15#. That means to break even and keep me going I'd have to recoup in the neighborhood of $85,000 annually, or $354oz ($12gm). Your mileage may vary depending on management or lack thereof.

 

Now if I was in a non compassionate business this might seem reasonable, however I'm a grower that has always grown his own and have bearing the burden fine for years. Now, the opportunity presents itself to assist others that want to learn and help share in that burden of $466 a month if they can in return for what they consider a miracle. Sharing equally that comes to about $155 a month per share, and we all have a constant supply of quality strains of our choice. Now, to some 6.5 oz a month each won't get you rich, but then, it's not intended to.

 

Am I giving it away? Maybe to some. Does it cost me much more to help out two others, not really. Can I sleep well at night knowing I contributed to the happiness and dreams of a few others? You bet.

 

Just food for thought, flame away money mongers, my patients got me an asbestos suit in appreciation.

 

1T

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i thought your letter thought provoking. as you can see, i am new to this whole thing. when i went to the dr. to get certified, when he was finished, i was sent to a woman, who gave me some instructions. and one was that your caregiver should be giving free medicine all of the time, but to be aware of caregivers whose bottom line was profit. now it seems that one of a newbie's learning steps is that to learn how to tell the difference between a good caregiver and a not so good caregiver. your letter made me hopeful that on the whole most caregivers are going to be good, that they care about their patients, and they charge a reasonable price. thanks for your input

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How are 5 patients going to fund 90,000 a year?

 

That is 18,000 a year. Per patient.

 

That is 1500 per patient per month.

 

That is 375 per week per patient.

 

 

Most people in MI aren't making that amount of money right now.

 

Not to mention, the truly ill that can't work.

 

Maybe I'm missing your point. Are you saying that you are making 90,000 a year?

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Guest 1TokeOverLine

I'm saying that making anything over your expenses and time is a rip off. The business model showcases the thinking of a grower in it to make money and the justification for it.

 

As for me, we all share the bills and split the harvest equally, each costing about $150 a month for our medication. As I said, I've been growing since 1958, and adding a few people to share it is not a problem and doesn't cost me, I end up getting help with utilities and labor that I didn't have on my own.

 

Hope that clears it up a little.

 

1T

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I'm saying that making anything over your expenses and time is a rip off. The business model showcases the thinking of a grower in it to make money and the justification for it.

 

As for me, we all share the bills and split the harvest equally, each costing about $150 a month for our medication. As I said, I've been growing since 1958, and adding a few people to share it is not a problem and doesn't cost me, I end up getting help with utilities and labor that I didn't have on my own.

 

Hope that clears it up a little.

 

1T

 

 

 

LOL~~~I get ya.... I think the CG's that are compassionate are doing the same.

 

You just threw me off with the 90,000 a year comment. :rolleyes:

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I'm saying that making anything over your expenses and time is a rip off. The business model showcases the thinking of a grower in it to make money and the justification for it.

 

As for me, we all share the bills and split the harvest equally, each costing about $150 a month for our medication. As I said, I've been growing since 1958, and adding a few people to share it is not a problem and doesn't cost me, I end up getting help with utilities and labor that I didn't have on my own.

 

Hope that clears it up a little.

 

1T

 

 

well now I can understand this short version! I almost flew off the handle on the long 90k one. lol

You as and experienced grower dont have a prob signing on more, its a win win for you and the others" where you gonna get that kind of good mm for a buck fifty a month!

 

sounds good to me, I got a good one going, i signed a seasoned grower so he could have more plants and 2.5 cured on hand and I get 4 plant my pic every 60 to 90 days!

 

win win, he makes more cash from where ever with the other 8 plants and I medicate for free!

 

Peace

FTW

Jim

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who ever posted "some CG's are paying 20k to set up a room or 2" who needs that? these people are obviously not in it to help people, at least not 100% help patients. thats 20 1k lights (and thats being conservative), these people are who I am talking about, I could cover 5 patients with 2 600 watt lights. My set up cost 3k, and once I recouped that cost my med's went down in price for my patients.

 

But you have to admit it looks kind of shady for a CG to have 5 patients, gives them free medicine every month, and has a huge set up....those bills have to get paid somehow, especially if they have as you put it "a 20k setup". CO2 is not cheap, electricity is not free, time and labor to manage 72 veg/flowering plants, nutes, jars or bags, dehum's, A/C's, timers, pumps, bulbs, trays/buckets/soil/pots all these things cost money, unless these people are saints (and also very wealthy), giving away free meds is not how they are paying for all of this. But think however you want, if you happen to give free meds to your patients and are not doing anything outside the realm of legality, and you are not losing money, than more power to you.

 

And if you are not losing money, please post how you are doing so because i have not found a way to do it yet.....

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who ever posted "some CG's are paying 20k to set up a room or 2" who needs that? these people are obviously not in it to help people, at least not 100% help patients. thats 20 1k lights (and thats being conservative), these people are who I am talking about, I could cover 5 patients with 2 600 watt lights. My set up cost 3k, and once I recouped that cost my med's went down in price for my patients.

 

Well, in all honesty, as a patient i would be more comfortable with a committed CG who would invest 20k in a modern antiseptic professional installation than some bloke with a corner light in his moldy basement. It may be a "weed", but it should be medicinal quality for medicinal use.

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^^I completely agree, but it does not cost 20k to grow top notch medicine....my room/s did not cost more than 3k to build out and I have all the things the 20k grow has, but I am not trying to grow 72 six foot wide bushes.....sure you can build a room for 20k, but within our laws as we have it now its not needed.

 

Also, you have to spend 20k to be a "committed CG" as you put it? And here I thought helping people out at a super reasonable price and passing on all my knowledge and time was enough, looks like I need to take out a loan from the bank to be "committed"...

 

and for your sake I hope you grow all your own food, because the food industry puts some horrible things in its food, and has horrible conditions for animals....since you care about the environment of the things you ingest so much....

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