Caregiver "donations"

[crabby]

I was under the impression that growing was a privilige not a right? I've been looking/speaking with caregivers and most of them use equiptment as justification for over pricing or they make it sound like they are doing you a favor "Well I got my lights and co2 and ventallation" As a patient and experienced grower I know that there are alot of expences that go with a grow but isn't that the responsiblity of the grower. "I am reffering to established CG's not new growers" Your patient didn't make you buy those lights and I don't know many people who acctually work within the boundries of the law "possessing only 2.5oz per patient at any time" Why is it when a patient ask for their legal limit free every month their "out of their mind" that's why they have dipenceries on every corner. If you can't pull enough off one plant to satisfy your patient and compinsate your spending you should stop growing because you don't know what you're doing. A caregiver's responsiblity is to satisfy the patient not try to milk them for everything you can. We need more caregivers that are in it for the patients and not the money. I realize that not all CG's are corrupt but there are a few out there that need to re-evaluate their morals and stop looking at it like they are the only/best grower in the area they should remember there is always someone out there better than you. Of course on the other hand if you are a patient and agree to the shady terms set forth by a corrupt CG's don't complain you knew the deal when you signed on if you are going to cancel them at least have the decency to notify them so they don't do time.

[Highlander]

I was under the impression that growing was a privilige not a right? I've been looking/speaking with caregivers and most of them use equiptment as justification for over pricing or they make it sound like they are doing you a favor "Well I got my lights and co2 and ventallation" As a patient and experienced grower I know that there are alot of expences that go with a grow but isn't that the responsiblity of the grower. "I am reffering to established CG's not new growers" Your patient didn't make you buy those lights and I don't know many people who acctually work within the boundries of the law "possessing only 2.5oz per patient at any time" Why is it when a patient ask for their legal limit free every month their "out of their mind" that's why they have dipenceries on every corner. If you can't pull enough off one plant to satisfy your patient and compinsate your spending you should stop growing because you don't know what you're doing. A caregiver's responsiblity is to satisfy the patient not try to milk them for everything you can. We need more caregivers that are in it for the patients and not the money. I realize that not all CG's are corrupt but there are a few out there that need to re-evaluate their morals and stop looking at it like they are the only/best grower in the area they should remember there is always someone out there better than you. Of course on the other hand if you are a patient and agree to the shady terms set forth by a corrupt CG's don't complain you knew the deal when you signed on if you are going to cancel them at least have the decency to notify them so they don't do time.

 

 

It sounds like you are saying that the corrupt caregivers are those who don't sell overages to others but the grower who gives free meds to a patient in exchange for the "right" to move the extra product to the street/blackmarket isn't corrupt.

 

Maybe we should be also talking about the corrupt patients who want free meds and justify this demand by assuming that the CG can move product elsewhere to offset the expense.

[LansingAreaCaregiver]

It is the free market. If you don't agree with someone's pricing, don't do business with them. It is that simple. It is the same in any other business.

 

Grocery store A may price corn at 3 ears/dollar

Grocery store B may price corn at $3/ear

Consumer A may choose to grow their corn in their own corn at 30 ears/dollar.

 

Drugstore A may charge $5 for a bottle of aspirin, while you may be able to get the same bottle of aspirin at the dollar store for $1.

 

Do I think an individual caregiver should be making a mint off of 4 or 5 patients? Probably not. Do I think that a patient asking for 2.5 ounces free per month is excessive? Absolutely (except in extreme circumstances and at the agreement of both patient and caregiver!)

 

It is also a "privilege" for your mechanic to change your oil. Should they do that for free?

It is a privilege for the electric company to make provide me with the massive amounts of power I consume as a caregiver. Should that be free?

 

Come on now, why would you think someone should put their time and effort into providing you top quality medicine, put themselves into legal jeopardy possibly resulting in huge legal bills or the destruction of their family, dedicate space in their home or other growing facility and not expect to be compensated?

[Beans]

So I have 5 patients and they are just like you and demand 30 free ounces a year

 

How is it I recoup my expenses

 

Not putting you down just confused as to what you would like to see happen?

[phaquetoo]

It sounds like you are saying that the corrupt caregivers are those who don't sell overages to others but the grower who gives free meds to a patient in exchange for the "right" to move the extra product to the street/blackmarket isn't corrupt.

 

Maybe we should be also talking about the corrupt patients who want free meds and justify this demand by assuming that the CG can move product elsewhere to offset the expense.

 

 

1st off it is a privelage to grow weed legal! I have to totaly agree with op on this one, if you been in busines longer than 2yrs(since it became lega) they dont need to charge a pt. they can most def take care of 1 or 2 or maybe 3 pts, off of one plant, depends on there normal use, as far as im concerend I could care less where the c,g recovers their cost, not my business, its theres, as long as I am being taken care of and i have a uniterupted supply, im good to go, you do waht you have to do to make some cash, I appreciate them growing for me, dont get me wrong, but they appreciate me giving them the rights to 12 plants and 2.5 cured,, like i said, I get 4 plants my choice, every 60 to 90 days! complete just pulled plants, i trim i cure, and I enjoy!

 

my c.g even says i can have a free zip of a dif strain every month, dont know if i will take him up on it or not, Im not looking to have a huge stock pile, I would like to stay within my homes legal limit of 2.5 x 2pt's(me and my lady) so 5 zips,, im not greedy, im gonna have a hard enough time curing it right, and than hiding it else where to stay in my limits, Im prob gonna be getting an lb or more every time! he is averaging any where between 4 and 8 zips a plant dried! I have 6 weeks to make my plan! wish it wasnt winter! lol,

 

Peace

FTW

Jim

[phaquetoo]

It is the free market. If you don't agree with someone's pricing, don't do business with them. It is that simple. It is the same in any other business.

 

Grocery store A may price corn at 3 ears/dollar

Grocery store B may price corn at $3/ear

Consumer A may choose to grow their corn in their own corn at 30 ears/dollar.

 

Drugstore A may charge $5 for a bottle of aspirin, while you may be able to get the same bottle of aspirin at the dollar store for $1.

 

Do I think an individual caregiver should be making a mint off of 4 or 5 patients? Probably not. Do I think that a patient asking for 2.5 ounces free per month is excessive? Absolutely (except in extreme circumstances and at the agreement of both patient and caregiver!)

 

It is also a "privilege" for your mechanic to change your oil. Should they do that for free?

It is a privilege for the electric company to make provide me with the massive amounts of power I consume as a caregiver. Should that be free?

 

Come on now, why would you think someone should put their time and effort into providing you top quality medicine, put themselves into legal jeopardy possibly resulting in huge legal bills or the destruction of their family, dedicate space in their home or other growing facility and not expect to be compensated?

 

 

an oil change has nothing to do with it, they get to resell their used oil, that aint a privelage, that is something you have to do to keep that car running! you cant keep up a perpetual grow w/o a patient legaly!

 

clear enough for you. it is a privelage for me to be able to grow for myself, It is a privelage for me to give you my grow rites!

 

the pt should be compensated not he c.g, the c.g chose to be compasionate to their patients, is 4 buck a zip compassionate?

is making me pay for YOUR grow equipment in a few months compassionate,(assuming you have 5 pt's) no!!!!

 

when peeps advertise openings for pt's i always ask what they are paying! cause im not paying chit, I will pay for a clone that i want, i will pay for some seeds i want to be grown, but im not paying for my meds, unless you are billing my ins co and i only have to pay the 3 dollars co pay!

 

yep thats my plan and im sticking to it and i hope more people catch on to this theory, I would and have gave plenty of smoke away over the years, and made it up elsewhere! none of your biz where i do it, and none of my biz what you do with your meds! thats the real world of mm, and I havent dealt in commercial smoke in many many yrs. i grab some up once in a while when its good! and its good alot of times if you have good connections!

 

Peace

Grow on

FTW

Jim

[crabby]

OK so how does a caregiver justify prices to a patient with low/no income? The patient is giving them the right to add 12 plants to their operation so you mean to tell me that they are NOT going to profit from other resources so it is left to that patient to purchase upto or more than a half pound every harvest @ 250,350,400oz? I'm all about open market and competive business but for a CG to use the phrase justifiable compinsation is crazy your light bill isn't $2000 per month and how do you justify charging all of your patients that much? for all of you that like to use word problems...

 

lets say you have 5 patients for each patient you have 12 plants thats 60 plants

now lets say you harvest 10 plants per month

off every plant you pull let say 4 ozs

you sell $250oz

that's $10,000 every month off someone else's plants

 

Now when you look at it from the other side of the spectrum it make's a little sense. patients should get "resonable" compinsation for there 12 plants I'm not saying that everything they smoke should be free but CG'S should offer better than 1/2oz month free with $250ozs

[DenturesLost]

I was under the impression that growing was a privilige not a right? I've been looking/speaking with caregivers and most of them use equiptment as justification for over pricing or they make it sound like they are doing you a favor "Well I got my lights and co2 and ventallation" As a patient and experienced grower I know that there are alot of expences that go with a grow but isn't that the responsiblity of the grower. "I am reffering to established CG's not new growers" Your patient didn't make you buy those lights and I don't know many people who acctually work within the boundries of the law "possessing only 2.5oz per patient at any time" Why is it when a patient ask for their legal limit free every month their "out of their mind" that's why they have dipenceries on every corner. If you can't pull enough off one plant to satisfy your patient and compinsate your spending you should stop growing because you don't know what you're doing. A caregiver's responsiblity is to satisfy the patient not try to milk them for everything you can. We need more caregivers that are in it for the patients and not the money. I realize that not all CG's are corrupt but there are a few out there that need to re-evaluate their morals and stop looking at it like they are the only/best grower in the area they should remember there is always someone out there better than you. Of course on the other hand if you are a patient and agree to the shady terms set forth by a corrupt CG's don't complain you knew the deal when you signed on if you are going to cancel them at least have the decency to notify them so they don't do time.

You've got a point.

What you should do is go to the highest priced gas station in town and tell them they are out of their minds because they already own the tanks, lights. building, etc. Then tell them that if they can't make enough money by selling gas for the price of speedway that they ought stop selling because they don't know what they are doing.

It's a free market system. If you don't like one cg get a different one and quit your whining. If you know the cost up front then what do you have to complain about??? If your local restaurant charged $20 for a hamburger and said they had to in order to offset costs would you complain to them or would you just stop going there?

[LansingAreaCaregiver]

an oil change has nothing to do with it, they get to resell their used oil, that aint a privelage, that is something you have to do to keep that car running! you cant keep up a perpetual grow w/o a patient legaly!

 

clear enough for you. it is a privelage for me to be able to grow for myself, It is a privelage for me to give you my grow rites!

 

the pt should be compensated not he c.g, the c.g chose to be compasionate to their patients, is 4 buck a zip compassionate?

is making me pay for YOUR grow equipment in a few months compassionate,(assuming you have 5 pt's) no!!!!

 

when peeps advertise openings for pt's i always ask what they are paying! cause im not paying chit, I will pay for a clone that i want, i will pay for some seeds i want to be grown, but im not paying for my meds, unless you are billing my ins co and i only have to pay the 3 dollars co pay!

 

yep thats my plan and im sticking to it and i hope more people catch on to this theory, I would and have gave plenty of smoke away over the years, and made it up elsewhere! none of your biz where i do it, and none of my biz what you do with your meds! thats the real world of mm, and I havent dealt in commercial smoke in many many yrs. i grab some up once in a while when its good! and its good alot of times if you have good connections!

 

Peace

Grow on

FTW

Jim

 

Jim,

 

More power to you if you can find someone willing to pay you to provide you a service. TO me, that seems foolish as a service provider. I think everyone that can grow their own should. That is the ultimate self sufficiency goal. But, if you are asking someone to provide you a service, you should expect to compensate that person. Your argument that you assigning your plant growing rights to the caregiver is compensation enough is very shortsighted. If you expect your caregiver to recoup their expenses by providing meds grown on your behalf to other patients, then you are asking them do no more than transfer YOUR medical expenses to someone else. You are basically expecting them to expose themselves to huge risk by providing marijuana to a patient that they are not officially connected to, or to a non-patient. Unless, of course, you're going to cover their expenses for an affirmative defense case.

 

And providing ANY service to a consumer is a privilege. Without that consumer authorizing you to provide that service to or for them, you don't have a service, whether it be mechanic's service, a building contractor, legal services, or a medical marijuana caregiver. Again, it is your choice where to obtain your medicine. The relationship you describe sounds extremely one-sided. All the benefit goes to the patient and all the risk goes to the caregiver. Good gig if you can get it, I suppose, but I don't know of many top quality professionals who give away their talents for free. Again, maybe in extreme cases or a few very charitable folks, but it is the exception rather than the rule.

[LITLJON]

If you can't pull enough off one plant to satisfy your patient and compinsate your spending you should stop growing because you don't know what you're doing

True as this may almost may be do we really want to go there on a public forum?

[bigbudsnewbie]

Interesting topic... I agree.. C/G's over charge!!

[crabby]

You've got a point.

What you should do is go to the highest priced gas station in town and tell them they are out of their minds because they already own the tanks, lights. building, etc. Then tell them that if they can't make enough money by selling gas for the price of speedway that they ought stop selling because they don't know what they are doing.

It's a free market system. If you don't like one cg get a different one and quit your whining. If you know the cost up front then what do you have to complain about??? If your local restaurant charged $20 for a hamburger and said they had to in order to offset costs would you complain to them or would you just stop going there?

 

 

problem with that being gas prices are out of the hands of the business owner they are lucky if they make .25 per gallon. CG's use that equiptment excuse as long as they grow so how long does it take for them to make back their money. I just find crazy that people think it's ok and justifiable. Also, most of the CG's out there don't know what they are doing so by the time you sift thru their BS and actually get to see the meds they offer and realize their stuff is a joke your down 1-2 days should they have to compinsate for the patients time? If your going to be a CG the state should test your growing abilities to make sure they are not bringing a bad rep. on other CG's

[crabby]

Jim,

 

More power to you if you can find someone willing to pay you to provide you a service. TO me, that seems foolish as a service provider. I think everyone that can grow their own should. That is the ultimate self sufficiency goal. But, if you are asking someone to provide you a service, you should expect to compensate that person. Your argument that you assigning your plant growing rights to the caregiver is compensation enough is very shortsighted. If you expect your caregiver to recoup their expenses by providing meds grown on your behalf to other patients, then you are asking them do no more than transfer YOUR medical expenses to someone else. You are basically expecting them to expose themselves to huge risk by providing marijuana to a patient that they are not officially connected to, or to a non-patient. Unless, of course, you're going to cover their expenses for an affirmative defense case.

 

And providing ANY service to a consumer is a privilege. Without that consumer authorizing you to provide that service to or for them, you don't have a service, whether it be mechanic's service, a building contractor, legal services, or a medical marijuana caregiver. Again, it is your choice where to obtain your medicine. The relationship you describe sounds extremely one-sided. All the benefit goes to the patient and all the risk goes to the caregiver. Good gig if you can get it, I suppose, but I don't know of many top quality professionals who give away their talents for free. Again, maybe in extreme cases or a few very charitable folks, but it is the exception rather than the rule.

 

But isn't that why they have dispenseries on every street corner? Just figured overage's can go there. I do not condone in breaking the law. But, a lot of CG's in my area like to say well I can get $350 outta it on the street.

[DenturesLost]

OK so how does a caregiver justify prices to a patient with low/no income? The patient is giving them the right to add 12 plants to their operation so you mean to tell me that they are NOT going to profit from other resources so it is left to that patient to purchase upto or more than a half pound every harvest @ 250,350,400oz? I'm all about open market and competive business but for a CG to use the phrase justifiable compinsation is crazy your light bill isn't $2000 per month and how do you justify charging all of your patients that much? for all of you that like to use word problems...

 

lets say you have 5 patients for each patient you have 12 plants thats 60 plants

now lets say you harvest 10 plants per month

off every plant you pull let say 4 ozs

you sell $250oz

that's $10,000 every month off someone else's plants

 

Now when you look at it from the other side of the spectrum it make's a little sense. patients should get "resonable" compinsation for there 12 plants I'm not saying that everything they smoke should be free but CG'S should offer better than 1/2oz month free with $250ozs

Justify? Is that a state form? Where is it that you file your justification form? Why is it a cg has to JUSTIFY ANYTHING? You talk up front before you sign and if you both like the deal then you sign. Simple, right?

 

As for your phrase "justifiable compensation"...you are very conveniently taking the market out of the equation. Don't on the one hand say you are all for a free market and then on the other say compensation isn't justifiable. What is a free market? How does the dept. store "justify" sell 12 "silly bandz" for $4? We are talking a few pennies' worth of silicone and the minor amount of labor/overhead necessary to get them on the market. Those things probably have a 900% markup. But do they need to "justify" the markup? No, it's a free market. If you don't like it you don't buy it. And if you don't buy then the prices drop OR a competitor comes in and puts the other guy out of business.

 

Sounds to me like you aren't for a free market at all. Maybe we ought try a different approach--from each according to his means, to each according to his need.

[crabby]

So I have 5 patients and they are just like you and demand 30 free ounces a year

 

How is it I recoup my expenses

 

Not putting you down just confused as to what you would like to see happen?

 

I feel that caregiver's should compinsate their patients for the right to their 12 plants. Whether it be SOME free meds or discounted rates but then how do you interpet "discounted" I'm not say that all meds should be free but if you have a patient with little/no income and can not afford any meds then what are you doing with everything that comes off their plants?

[DenturesLost]

problem with that being gas prices are out of the hands of the business owner they are lucky if they make .25 per gallon. CG's use that equiptment excuse as long as they grow so how long does it take for them to make back their money. I just find crazy that people think it's ok and justifiable. Also, most of the CG's out there don't know what they are doing so by the time you sift thru their BS and actually get to see the meds they offer and realize their stuff is a joke your down 1-2 days should they have to compinsate for the patients time? If your going to be a CG the state should test your growing abilities to make sure they are not bringing a bad rep. on other CG's

Out of the hands of the business owner? Really? Does the state tell them what price to charge? If shell charges $3/gallon but its competitor charges $2.80 what exactly is it that is out of the hands of shell?

 

Yes, that's exactly what we need--MORE state intervention!!!! Yes! IN fact, why not require all cgs to drop off product at a giant state warehouse and then get a check from the state and have the state sell the stuff at a fixed price? YES! You've solved the whole problem by god! So how do we go about proposing that to the state?

[LansingAreaCaregiver]

But isn't that why they have dispenseries on every street corner? Just figured overage's can go there. I do not condone in breaking the law. But, a lot of CG's in my area like to say well I can get $350 outta it on the street.

 

Dispensaries are very much still in the gray area when it come to the law (or more accurately, law enforcement's interpretation of the law.) Expecting your caregiver to sell excess meds from your plant allotment to dispensaries is asking them to take a huge risk. Just look at what the DEA is trying to do right now, gain records of those who supplied dispensaries. While eventually it may be found that these are within the spirit and letter of the law, right now it is asking your caregiver to do something that could put them at significant financial and legal jeopardy so that you can get free meds. Certainly not something I'm willing to do.

 

That being said, I do agree that "what I can get on the streets" is not a fair comparison point for pricing. If, as a patient, a caregiver talked at all about selling marijuana on the black market, I would turn around and run, not walk, out the door. It is simply unprofessional and dangerous. Caregivers should not ever be moving patient's meds on the street as it puts not only the caregiver in danger, but also the patient's supply of medicine.

[Highlander]

lets say you have 5 patients for each patient you have 12 plants thats 60 plants

now lets say you harvest 10 plants per month

off every plant you pull let say 4 ozs

you sell $250oz

that's $10,000 every month off someone else's plants

 

Who do you know who harvests 40 oz. per month?

 

Your plan has a major flaw. If you spread this idea out across the state, then all patients will be getting free weed, and the overages will be going to the black market. You want caregivers to be the blackmarket brokers so patients can smoke for free. Who is buying that $10k/month worth of meds?

[DenturesLost]

I feel that caregiver's should compinsate their patients for the right to their 12 plants. Whether it be SOME free meds or discounted rates but then how do you interpet "discounted" I'm not say that all meds should be free but if you have a patient with little/no income and can not afford any meds then what are you doing with everything that comes off their plants?

And you are allowed to "feel" that way. So find yourself a cg who will do that for you! Enter into a contract so you both understand the terms and have memorialized it in writing. You are free to do that but don't try and impose your contract terms on the rest.

 

A previous poster had it right. Are YOU as a pt going to foot the legal bill of a cg if they ARE selling overages? You get your meds free, free, free, and when the cg gets knicked you're going to write a check? How about this? YOU take the risk. The cg grows and give YOU the ENTIRE plant. YOU trim, YOU cure, YOU sell off overages. YOU assume any risk! Then you just pay the cg some amount that covers fair labor and materials/supplies? Sound good? You handle the major headache portion. If you're willing to do that then I'LL be your cg!

[Highlander]

I feel that caregiver's should compinsate their patients for the right to their 12 plants. Whether it be SOME free meds or discounted rates but then how do you interpet "discounted" I'm not say that all meds should be free but if you have a patient with little/no income and can not afford any meds then what are you doing with everything that comes off their plants?

 

You are a solution in search of a problem.

 

If you can't afford meds, go to the "CG Services" forum and start shooting emails to all the CGs offering free meds, rather than crabbing about the ones who want "too much."

[Ladybug]

Hey Crabby, here's a ideal, why don't you just grow for yourself and forget the CG. You could grow all you need without the hassel of dealing with a caregiver. You put in the money for the set up of a grow room and a bud room and you're all set to supply yourself BUT you will need to pay that electic bill every month and you will have to purchase nutes and bug spray and dirt and re-purchase equipment ie: ph pens, TDS pens Carbon Filter, Fans ,Lights and on and on. So in the long run you will be paying for your meds....they will not be free EVER, just like the pain pills or whatever you were taking before Medical Marijuana everthing cost something. I agree a lot of caregivers charge too much but you have the option to grow for yourself so just do it.

[Highlander]

But isn't that why they have dispenseries on every street corner? Just figured overage's can go there.

 

But if patients are getting free meds, then who is going to go to the dispensary to buy meds?

 

Oh I see, you want someone to grow for you for free then sell overages to a dispensary, so they can sell to other PATIENTS for an even higher price than the greedy caregivers you admonish?

[pic book]

At dispensaries where the patients and caregivers price the meds (Judge Chamberlain model, origin Isabella County)where there's consignment meds I have seen prices listed all the way from $7.50/gram to $50/gram. (Purple Bubba Kush at $50 gram? They were out). I am opening just susch a dispenesary in SW Detroit Feb. 1 where the pt. and c/g do the pricing, and I expect to learn a lot.

[LansingAreaCaregiver]

I just want to add that I understand that there are caregivers who overcharge for their services, just as their are patients who have unrealistic expectations of their caregivers. But, for the most part, I believe that most of us, both patients and caregivers, are trying to find a way to make an imperfect system work for all. While we all have our initial knee jerk reactions, I think we could all benefit from keeping this in mind.

 

And that is my kumbaya moment for the day. lol

[Big J]

Now when you look at it from the other side of the spectrum it make's a little sense. patients should get "resonable" compinsation for there 12 plants I'm not saying that everything they smoke should be free but CG'S should offer better than 1/2oz month free with $250ozs

 

Personally If I were to ever take on more than just the wife. I could see an ounce or two free a month and say $200 a zip after I mean really is 1 oz free a month and $200 after that a bad deal? and I don't know anyone pulling 40 oz a month. If you do tell them I beg to see their grow room. I have to see this in person would be like going to mecca!

 

Don't get me wrong I consider it a privilege to grow for my wife. This is my little get away when I get to work with the plants. Its peaceful and when they talk back it is more like whining then like my daughters screaming and crying. They are 4 and 1 so I get that a lot.