Revolving Door Patients

[Royal Smoke]

Certification centers are fine! The certification should be based on a bona fide doctor patient relationship. The same standard of care that any doctor would provide in their normal daily practice. We will loose our law if we allow doctors with no knowledge of the patient's condition or no concern for the patients condition to write certs. Each certification must be defensible in court or the patient and our program is put at risk. This is what the voters voted for.

Bona Fide

1: made in good faith without fraud or deceit <a bona fide offer to buy a farm>

2: made with earnest intent : sincere

3: neither specious nor counterfeit : genuine

 

 

Thanks, Bb

 

Thanks for the clarification.

 

I just didn't know what most people meant when they said card mills. I didn't know if it included these Clinics also......

 

I don't know if I would go with the name of 'certification centers', because they may be issuing certs without records also.

 

Kinda like compassion centers piggy-backing off of the compassion club name.

 

Clinics maybe?

[GreenGuy9000]

Another thing to keep in mind is the more exclusive you make this, the higher you keep cost for everyone.

[Royal Smoke]

I'm sure most medical marijuana patients would like the drug to be completely legal.

 

But we won't risk losing our rights as they are now in pushing the legalization effort. We Are ALREADY *Safe

 

I can understand the frustration, but it's just not something most patients want to risk at this point. We just got this law....

 

I really don't know how this process is going to unfold, but I'm young enough as to where I may just see it legalized one day. So Yaaah for that....

 

 

* Well, ya know.....kinda safe.... LOL

[jsburn]

i have to jump into the minority here. no insurance havent been to a drs office in 12 years or more. i hope i dont have cancer, but my chances are as good as anyone else. easy certification is the only way for a LOT of people. also i think we need to certify as many people as possible. keep the state looking like clowns and get our side of the story out.

 

the main reason the state is starting to turn the pressure up is because they are scared shitless 100,000 people give or take can legally grow marijuana. and there is no sign of it slowing down. if we can hit 500k or more patients, WE BECOME POWERFUL

[jsburn]

blueberry i have the upmost respect for you, but if things are as bleak as what your saying. than we all might as well pack up.

[LongHairBri]

i don't want the government or ANY OF YOU in my medicine cabinet. what happens between me and my dr. stays that way

[GreenGuy9000]

Im just not a big fan of picking and choosing who deserves to use marijuana and who doesnt. Does one really need to be dieing to enjoy marijuana?

[pic book]

Im just not a big fan of picking and choosing who deserves to use marijuana and who doesnt. Does one really need to be dieing to enjoy marijuana?

Not dying but afflicted or suffering medically as defined by law to 'enjoy' it legally. The majority of Michigan voters favor its use medically but NOT OTHERWISE. And even CA voters want it used, but only if medically.

[David1946]

The liaison LEO who attends our community watch meetings has a very specif view of the people he has arrested who claim to be MM patients and the story he relates is this.

 

Last summer he pulled over a car for speeding on Hall Rd as he approached the car he could smell marijuana long story short, driver arrested for DUID.

 

Claimed he needed MM for his chronic pain from a severe back injury that severely limited his movements. When asked where he was coming from he told the Sargent he had just finished pitching in a softball game.

 

It later came out in court he had received his OK from a Dr at a motel in Romulus for $200.00 no medical records no exam and he had no back injury.

 

That makes every single patient suspect to have lied to get their card and if the state is able to say those motel type certifications are not valid they will some how get into the records and whoever was certified from the motel they'll pull that patients card.

 

Its really sad for me to see our community under attack from Lansing...and from with-in our ranks.

[hofner67]

I think many here are with you. I for one have realized that patients and caregivers will never be truly safe until marijuana is legal for everyone.

 

The difference is between using this law to get your recreational marijuana under the guise of medical use, or using this law to help advocate for future legalization by bringing responsible use to light. It is a big difference. One requires a lot more patience and work of "the movement."

 

Well said.

[phaquetoo]

Clinics that specialize in certifications are most definitely necessary, and ethical if certain practices are followed. The subject of this thread is the former, and usually they don't even "set up shop" except in a temporary office or hotel room.

 

Also, I don't think that the patients and caregivers commenting against recommendations for unqualified people are trying to say they are more needy or deserving of marijuana, just that they are allowed by law to have it, those without a qualifying condition are not (yet).

 

When they can get a card anyway and act just like a qualifying patient, it erodes our law in the eyes of every person that knows them and knows they are abusing the system. I would say it is the number one reason our law is currently under assault.

 

 

:goodjob: :goodjob:

 

Thank you!

 

Peace

FTW

Jim

[phaquetoo]

Im just not a big fan of picking and choosing who deserves to use marijuana and who doesnt. Does one really need to be dieing to enjoy marijuana?

 

 

im not dying, I mean hopefuly no time soon, im legal and i am legaly qualified,,I smoked weed most of my life, i think everyone should be able to make their own choice!

 

obviously that is not what the voters said, the voted for mm not for full legalization of marijuana! so we have to deal with what we have, and the more people that just abide by the law, the more people wont get arrested!

 

Im not against the people pushing the limits! to see what they can do to make mm more availabe to every one who is legal to use it!

 

Im sorry I am against some one like this guy who got pulled over after pitching a baseball game medicating while driving, he broke the law, and he and the dr who gave him a rec broke the law! it only makes it worse for the rest of us who truly do qualify right now! just becuase i used weed most of my life dont mean im not a qualified pt!

 

I hate being on a high horse, i dont think im any better than anyone else, in fact im probably not the perfect citizen! the main thing is, the people voted for mm not for recreational use!

 

if you use it recreationaly do it in private, if you got your card unethicly be stealthy! we dont need a bunch of dr;'s and pt's being arrested or their cards taken away, or just have a few places we can go for certification! run by the state or feds!

 

Peace

FTW

Jim

[+kurt klaas]

Blueberry and I do not always see eye to eye on particular topics, which is okay, but I fully support his stance on this crucial issue. Everyone should listen to him very carefully and heed his advice. As an aside, in many ways he has a thankless job that is very difficult, giving leadership to the mmj community as best he can. You see, many issues he has to deal with involve him in conflict, such as the current subject ends up doing. The stress conflict generates can burn people out. Thankfully, this particular subject has remained civil. But it does demonstrate that there is significant disagreement in the mmj community about what is acceptable behavior and what is not regarding getting doctor certified. And people like Blueberry get caught in the middle, trying to do the right thing.

 

There are basically two views reflected in this discussion. Roughly, they are 1)anything goes because all mj should be legal anyway (and there is money to be made) 2)stay within the law because serious abuse by a significant minority can destroy the gains that have been made for the rest of the mmj community. The level of support for #1 by many comments on this topic are shocking, to me. I know more than one person myself who holds to #1. We agree to disagree, but one person did agree that the fallout of abuse being exposed in the media is very bad for the mmj community as a whole. I find that the difference between #1 people and #2 people is that the former do not value the entire mmj as much as their own interests. #2 people are willing to regulate themselves for the sake of the entire community. Abuse is primarily driven by greed, not lofty humanitarian ideals. Blueberry, I greatly admire your courageous stand on this question. Too bad the MMMA does not seem to have very clearly defined, written policies on questions such as the one being discussed. That might really help to keep the fences up in the right places. Every organization needs fences of some sort in order to maintain and advance their mission and identity, so that there's no question in the minds of others about it, who can then weaken it. I do not understand how people who hold to #1 cannot see the many news reports highlighting clear instances of abuse and fail to see the serious consequences for the entire mmj community. Do you people not care about this? Or do you actually believe nothing bad will happen? Please take Blueberry's stance to heart, for the sake of all legitimate mmj patients. It is a huge public relations mistake to use mmj as a way to make gains for recreational use and the MMMA has always kept them separate. Keep it up Blueberry. Thank you.

 

Kurt

[______]

I used to think the same way, that people should not be able to get certified without a serious condition and records to prove it. After thinking it through I have come to the conclusion that the more card carying patients there are, the more normal it becomes. Also if it was not for the motel doctors many patients, who really do have serious conditions which warrant using marijuana medically, would not have access to cards due to their own doctors not being willing to sign. I also don't advocate cutting off access to other prescription drugs because some people abuse them.

[boroboro]

The great thing is that none of us has to be. The voters approved the conditions and we don't have to worry about either picking and choosing or dying to meet the conditions. There is even a process to follow to add conditions if we find them incomplete in practice.

 

The doctors we are talking about may be violating the standard of care for their professional license and shouldn't need us to tell them they can get in lots of trouble for it. We do need to tell them they are weakening the program, though.

 

I realize it may still be too early in the history of the Michigan medical cannabis movement, but I can't help but quote this.  It might help bring a lot of us together if there were a few more qualifying conditions.  I know people who have used cannabis to successfully treat real and persistent conditions, conditions with research supporting the efficacy of cannabis, but conditions that are not on Michigan's list of qualifying conditions.  I know people who lead happy, productive, and positive lives with a little bit of cannabis, but who tend to fall into a depressed haze without it. 

[RTShaw]

lost most control of my fingers, body, have constant spasms & tremors (post-polio) now throat Cancer ,so pleaqe bear with me, it hurts like hell 2 type or move(but i ain't dead yet doggitt!)

 

 

What we all forget or don't realize is the state issuing these Med Mj cards doesnt give a darn about us or our illnesses or theamunt of suffering we go thru everyday. its all about the money

think back a year or 2 ago what was everyone chanting" the kids" the kids keep pot away from te kids its a gateway drug

now why don't u think we hear that arguement today? what changed? We are broke1 its all about the buxs

look at yur card, a cheap axx piece of plastic without even your picture an u paid what? 25 - 100 buxs per year? thats cheaper then your drivers license yet there's a picture of you on it. And if these people really thought it was a dangerous drug dont u think your picture would beon your card?

its a joke, afarce, fortunately we that are truly suffering daily benefit from this hiprocritical (sp) line of Bs we're being fed.

And now we are debating just who is sick enough or suffering enoug 2 use pot? Come on, just when did we start becoming doctors or judging people?

and by the way - my life time pieve - just where does anyone including the gov get off telling me what i can and can not do 2 my body or 2 alleviate pain. darn, they actually think they own us body and soul.

i'm so tired of all these selfish people and their lies just 2 keep us all bickering amongst each other so we dont concentrate on the 1% f people sucking us dry, forcng us into debt, look at it, we areborn into a society that perpetuates debt and the only way out is 2 born rich..

then they laugh at use all the way 2 their banks.

[HarveyWallbanger]

Well because some towns don't have doctors that will stand up and do whats right. So it nice that a doctor will come to your town and do what is right and compassionate for patients. Also why is is OK to walk into any bar and order 151 proof rum get slammed but you can,t smoke a joint. Don't get me wrong I am totally disabled and use cannabis for medicine but its my belief that anyone should be able to enjoy the benefits of cannabis and maybe there would'nt be a many teen drinking booze and ruining their lives Just my opinion let legalize it for everyone and do away with all the money grabbing doctors and state agencies don't they rape us enough already. Free The Weed