How Do I Get Rid Of A Horrible Patient?

[breakthesilence]

Hello all,

one of my patients is very bossy and irritable, I have two patients and he seems to think all of the harvest is his, even though its way more than he needs. I do not want him to boss me around anymore, and I am sick of his bullsh*t... I know there's a form for patients to change their caregiver, but is there a form for caregivers to disband with a patient?

 

Anyone have experience with anything like this?

 

How Should I go about this?

 

Any suggestions would be much appreciated!

 

Thanks!

[Kingdiamond]

Please explain how much on average are you giving him ?

 

Id let him know that your unhappy with being his caregiver and that he needs to sign up with someone else thats your choice your not obligated to assist anybody who's being unreasonable.

[drtarzanmd]

Send him a certified Letter in the Mail ...

MAKE HIM SIGN FOR IT ...

 

Explaining your feeling as Polite as possible ...

 

Tell him that he has 30 days to find him another Caregiver ...

Try to be as Fair & Compassion as you Possiblly can ...

 

Then you could pay $10 to have that changed to the best of my Knowledge ...

 

We 've never had to do that becuase we Only Accept Close Friends or Family

 

Being someone Caregiver is VERY PERSONAL for Us ...

 

Why people just sign anyone up is beyond me ? It is So Personal ....

 

It saddens me seeing people struggling w/ this program ...

 

No Matter What ... Always Protect Yourself , Please

 

Hopefully others will share their ideals ,

So you can really think about it ...

 

I wish You the Best ......

[Budz-4-U]

Hello all,

one of my patients is very bossy and irritable, I have two patients and he seems to think all of the harvest is his, even though its way more than he needs. I do not want him to boss me around anymore, and I am sick of his bullsh*t... I know there's a form for patients to change their caregiver, but is there a form for caregivers to disband with a patient?

 

Anyone have experience with anything like this?

 

How Should I go about this?

 

Any suggestions would be much appreciated!

 

Thanks!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

All of the harvest is his !!

 

The question is if you have a solid agreement.

 

None free, and so much per oz.

 

Ounce free per month, then so much per oz. after that.

 

No donation. Split it up somehow. 50/50. 75/25. 60/40. Whatever.

Anything after the agreement, usually stays with Caregiver. If the Patient is trying to change the deal, or the Caregiver is trying to change the deal, you need to work it out, or leave as friends, and move on. If both people are trying to be more than fair, you will find a solution.

[Chicodog1]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

All of the harvest is his !!

 

The question is if you have a solid agreement.

 

None free, and so much per oz.

 

Ounce free per month, then so much per oz. after that.

 

No donation. Split it up somehow. 50/50. 75/25. 60/40. Whatever.

Anything after the agreement, usually stays with Caregiver. If the Patient is trying to change the deal, or the Caregiver is trying to change the deal, you need to work it out, or leave as friends, and move on. If both people are trying to be more than fair, you will find a solution.

The harvest is only his if he aquired the Genetics. Otherwise sadly it's just like computer soiftware copyrighted and encrypted intellectual property. You own it. My strains are how I combat my own personal issues and how I help others. So with that being said.

 

Who made the aquisition..? If you bought everything then it's yuors. Did he pay your power bill, insurance, gas or any of the other stuff..?

 

I had a patient that was demanding and impatient and we parted ways....it happens. Life goes on. he will find another CG. And you will a patient. Keep it civil and just part ways.

 

But I would not budge on the crop..especially if you put alot of time, labor and or finances into it. I am a patient but if I had a CG I would NEVER play any games like thats mine or what will you give me for FREE...please. i cannot go to the grow store and say "hey what are you going to give me for free just for me to step in your store and buy something". Some of the these people wanting freebies all the time in the community really irks me. Reciprosity is one thing when you help others, yours comes back to you. But getting something for nothing in life...FUX that.

 

My site is being continually built up and I pay for it..these things cost "real money".

 

 

I have a very short tolerance for anyone that thinks this is easy. It is sort of but to do it professionally and ethically not many don't do. Most are like Real Estate agents....part timers. And trust me I dealt with them (realtors) for 8 years in the lending industry. They are 90% clowns. Same with this. Everybody hopped in with the law being passed. But us basement bangers took the risk and saught out not money but our own personally gratification knowing dang well that it is bizurk that we had to even hide it back in the day and be all paranoid and always having to watch your back. To a certain degree that aspect is still there. But unless your a fool and tell everyone and or have a "warehouse" op going with jacked power for the most part your good. Except I would not be in Oakland growing as they seem to make up their own laws their.

 

Peace,

 

-Motown

[greengenez]

Give him 30 days, destroy plants.( offer him his fav. in cutting form) Don't look back. I know a couple of people I had to turn away,because I got the feeling that they felt they are doing me a favor. I do the favors. Some people (dicks) are more trouble than they're worth. He will find someone willing deal w/ him, if not he has the option of doing it himself.

 

Let the new caregiver pay the 10 bucks. thats how it should be anyway, unless your not holding up to your agreement.

[phaquetoo]

Send him a certified Letter in the Mail ...

MAKE HIM SIGN FOR IT ...

 

Explaining your feeling as Polite as possible ...

 

Tell him that he has 30 days to find him another Caregiver ...

Try to be as Fair & Compassion as you Possiblly can ...

 

Then you could pay $10 to have that changed to the best of my Knowledge ...

 

We 've never had to do that becuase we Only Accept Close Friends or Family

 

Being someone Caregiver is VERY PERSONAL for Us ...

 

Why people just sign anyone up is beyond me ? It is So Personal ....

 

It saddens me seeing people struggling w/ this program ...

 

No Matter What ... Always Protect Yourself , Please

 

Hopefully others will share their ideals ,

So you can really think about it ...

 

I wish You the Best ......

 

Awsome advise! I realy didnt know if the c.g could fill out that attasation form!

 

I was gonna say tell pt your done with him find someone else and drop your plant count down till you replace him and no more meds! I know i complain about c.g's on here, im not complaining about real c.gs like you sound to be! cut ties tell him dont call or come near my home again, your legal if not make sure you are! send him packing,,,,but leo may get involved if he is that big of an donkey he will try and do something to burn ya!

You cant let him hold you hostage though break ties!

 

Peace and good luck!

[Willy]

MY first thought is drop his azz. you don't need to be bullied. offer him the plants at a reasonable cost.. if he takes them fine, if not destroy them. he isn't supposed to be holding plants till he changes who has authority to the plants, . He needs to change his paperwork. Send the certified letter and keep copies. Poof he is gone. Don't take his BS you might want to take a stronger stance.

[MORE COWBELL]

hope it all works out okay-blessings and safety to you and your tribe

[CedarSpringsCG]

You see patients all the time complaining because a CG wasn't able to provide, wasn't able to grow, something went wrong, etc. You can break any agreement with, like everyone else has said, proper notice and time to change. Be nice, just tell him that this arrangement isn't working out for you, and you want to sever the relationship. If you are compassionate, give him 20-30 days to locate another CG, if you really hate the guy, tell him sorry, but you can't work with him any more and cut the tie immediately.

 

You could try to salvage the relationship by writing out exactly what you want to provide, who owns plants, what PT gets for how much, what you are willing to do for him, and what you expect from him in return. Once that is all laid out (every scenario) on paper, tell him this is how you want to proceed, and if he agrees then have him sign and hold him to it. If he doesn't then say you can't continue being his CG.

 

Nothing in the law says as a CG you HAVE to provide. That would be in your CG/PT agreement.

 

The law does not specify who owns the plants. No one can show me in our law where ownership is specified because it isn't there. So that is based on your agreement. If you agreed in the beginning he owned them, then he does and he has the right (after sending in a change form) to pick them up. If you agreed you own them, then you own them and I would offer to sell him a clone for cheap (donation). If it was never discussed, well guess what, possession is 9/10th's of the law. Who possesses them owns them.

 

Another thing to point out is he cannot have more than 2.5 oz dried at any time. So if the plants you are harvesting that he claims are his have more than 2.5 oz on them, he can't pick up the whole thing. Now you as a CG with multiple PT's can have more than 2.5 oz.

 

If you are both not happy with the relationship, then it is time to sever. Just be nice, inform him of your intentions, and offer to help him find a CG with more of the relationship he is looking for. Possibly a CG that will come to his place and grow there, the CG just tends the plants. They are out there.

 

Angry Liberal - If the PT put up the money for the grow, they should have had a contract specifying payback, or something. Just like if someone loaned you money to buy a car, get it in writing what you gave, what you expect back. unfortunately most people don't think about that when giving things like teaching them how to do something, but it is the same.

 

If the CG has multiple unregistered people involved/working in grow room, my reading of the law is that is illegal and he shouldn't be doing it. They shouldn't be trimming, watering, anything.

 

If the CG promised something, then there should be compensation, a verbal agreement is binding just as a paper one is, however a paper agreement is easy to prove in court, verbal is a question of who is the judge going to believe. make good on your promises...

[The Digital Nomad]

This thread does bring up several issues - How does a CG conduct 'business' with a patient - especially one that is not family.

 

If the patient is not a loved one or family, they maybe should not be told where you live or where the grow is. Loose lips sink ships, and even an excited new patient could leak where you live or what you got to others. A good CG can still show photos, and offer samples of their medicine, without showing the actual crop or location.

 

 

The Patient Does 'own 12 plants, and entrust them to a CG" - but the CG, like many growers do not always elect to grow out 12 plants every three months per patient. Some of those '12 plants' are clones, or mother plants. There is an issue of "Who owns the Mother Plant?" many CGs have acquired Mother Plants to clone from on their own - these should be under a plant count owned by the CG (if he/she is a patient, easy) The Mother Plant could care for several patients, and thus does not technically belong to one patient. If the CG is not a patient and cannot 'possess plants' on his/her own, perhaps work out a relationship with a trusted patient who will allow the mother plant to be used like so.

 

Do you use a contract? This could be helpful with new patients, it sets the rules in black and white. While the Patient might own 12 plants and entrust them to a CG, the contract can state the deal - flower and harvest X number of plants per cycle, give free meds and allow transfer to other needy patients, or buy meds at discounted rate. Most reliable CGs ask for a discounted rate per ounce - this helps the grow be perpetual - each monthly payment keeps the crop going. Most 'free med' crops cannot substain themselves, it needs cash to grow. If the CG cannot find other patients to transfer some of 'your free meds', he has no money for his electric bill, nutes, heat/cooling. If the CG is not a patient, he cannot do P2P.

So again, tricky and perhaps best worded clearly on paper.

 

You should send a certified letter to the MDCH, not just to the rejected patient - this notifies that you want separation from the patient - just a like a doctor can notify the MDCH to cancel his recommendation for your MMP. You will of course need to destroy your CG card for the patient as the MDCH will just consider the registry void, they might not contact the patient with a notice or new MDCH card reflecting changes.

The documentation you will keep, in case LEO does inquire. After LEO sees that you are legal, and you have documentation about the disguntled patient - they will hopefully see it as a civil matter, not criminal.

 

It would be considered a lowdown trick if the rejected patient rats you out to LEO (for what? you will be legal with plant count and weight right?) This would just be vindictive and punitive. The patient still has access to dispensaries and P2P to get meds, so you are not being cruel. You can offer a separation deal - take down the plants that are his and give it to him along with the signed letter he will sign agreeing that He is now his own CG. He would have to send in new paperwork to the MDCH to be legal to possess the plants BTW - Remember his MDCH card says "May possess plants - NO"

 

This is why you should get to know your patient, Know thy patient. Don't be in a hurry to sign up the patient OR CG, there are plenty out there.

Good Luck, get to those CC meetings.

 

DN

[CedarSpringsCG]

One more thing on possession. If the feds come in and break your door down, you can't say, "Oh Patient Bob owns these, they aren't mine". The feds, or any LEO for that matter, do not care. You have them in your house, they are yours. You're the one risking prosecutionfor having them on-site. Not the Patient. Not one PT has been arrested for their CG having too many plants, yet several CG's have been.

 

All of my PT's agree the plants are mine. Once trimmed, dried and cured, then portions of the harvest are theirs regardless of what plant it came off of, and sometimes I hold onto it for them only transferring 1/2 to 1 oz at a time to them.

[CedarSpringsCG]

 

 

The Patient Does 'own 12 plants, and entrust them to a CG"

 

Nomad, I just searched the whole act and administrative rules and no where does the word "entrust" exist. Can you cite where it says that?

 

Here is a link to the actual passed act voted by the people, and the administrative rules. ownership of plants is not in it at all.

 

http://www.michigan.gov/mdch/0,1607,7-132-27417_51869_52138---,00.html

[The Digital Nomad]

I can agree it is not worded that patient has ownership - the CG has to consider only Plant Count.

"For each patient, the CG is allowed to cultivate 12 plants" - it did not say the plants belong to the patient, only the 12 plant count is because he has that patient. So in theory - I could support that the CG OWNs the plants, only that he has a count of '12'. Blame my wording on the fact that some patients DO tell the CG what to obtain and grow, at the patient's costs, so some patients do own the stock, they just pay a 'gardener' to care for them. like the guy that cuts your lawn, he does not own your grass.

 

This helps - because in a crop grown for several patients - they don't need to have each plant labled with their name, they can share in the entire count of plants - to share strains.

 

In reality, the CG and patient are discussing the usable process, if the CG can meet the goal of usable amount the patient needs with 4 plants every 3 months (yeilding 1.5oz per plant) - then he does not need to grow 12 plants for that patient.

 

Since the patient STILL needs to send in a MDCH form to be CHANGED to possess plants - I don't see how a CG can legally give a patient plants while he possess a card that says "NO". Sounds like he needs to destroy the plant count to stay legal, he should not give plants to someone that has a card that says "No plants".

 

interesting discussion.

 

DN

[CedarSpringsCG]

Since the patient STILL needs to send in a MDCH form to be CHANGED to possess plants - I don't see how a CG can legally give a patient plants while he possess a card that says "NO". Sounds like he needs to destroy the plant count to stay legal, he should not give plants to someone that has a card that says "No plants".

 

interesting discussion.

 

DN

Hey DN, glad we clarified things.

 

It should be in the CG/PT agreement who owns the plants. Some PT's want to say they own them, which is fine as long as everyone is on the same page. When the card says "no plants", it is like when you send in the original paperwork. Send in a change form certified mail, count 20 days from the time you get the card back saying they received it, and then keep a copy of the form sent, and the certified letter return with your card and then I would say they are legal to possess. It would be sad to destroy a plant mid flower just because you don't agree...

 

A good clear and concise agreement is the cornerstone of every PT/CG relationship.

[NaturalMedication]

Try to work it out with this patient. Label his plants so clearly he can see his plants. Don't let him see the garden or come over to your house. Display pictures to him instead. Set the price based on your cost and stick to it. Don't drop the patient unless you have to.

 

NM

[MORE COWBELL]

be good to patients they are the sick ones-greed kills- a turd in the punchbowl when people cannot talk or refuse to talk it over-patient is entitled to 2.5 oz at a time or what is agreed upon by both at the start

-the plants would not be at the CG's unless they are a patient too

-CG needs patients to be able to grow legally-if they are not a patient themselves

6 plants in flower every three months is more than enough for patient and CG at 1-1.5 oz a plant-that is 9 zips every 90 days-36 zips minimum in a year

-if a patient only uses 2-2.5 a month then there are some overages to pay all the bills-at least 1 zip minimum left over for CG to get rid of somehow a month

-if there is 12 zips left over a year from each patient that is 60 zips as overage @200market value=12k in possible compensation-seems fair to most that can grow well with good genetics

[big bud]

MY first thought is drop his azz. you don't need to be bullied. offer him the plants at a reasonable cost.. if he takes them fine, if not destroy them. he isn't supposed to be holding plants till he changes who has authority to the plants, . He needs to change his paperwork. Send the certified letter and keep copies. Poof he is gone. Don't take his BS you might want to take a stronger stance.

The pateint has no rights to the plants he has rights to the product that is 21/2 but he can not have the plants enless it says it on his card.there's a lot of pateints that think they are doing u a favor.ape a caregiver you are doing the favor he would have never signed you on if he/she could do it.never sign a contract they get what they donate for and that's it. If your giving them a good price then they should have no problems

[MightyMightyMezz]

Interesting that the OP has four posts on the board total in four different threads, all of which are about this same issue.

[+Dizledot]

Be very careful! I know someone who was a caregiver to a guy who is bipolar and a few other things. He had some sort of major melt down, called 911 and when the ER did some blood work to find out what his problem was he flipped out and told them his caregiver was FORCING him to smoke MM all day in place of his meds. Adult protective services was notified. Now it seem that he is not in one of his psychotic moods or other personalities he claims to know nothing about making the statement. Just hope my friend doesn't have to get an attorney over this.

 

 

So be very careful on dropping a patient and extra careful if there are mental issues involved as well.

 

Dizz

[tooldini]

thats the kind of stuff that scares me Dizz

[pic book]

This ? has been posted many times in 'patient issues' by different CG's with same problem. The advice that resonated with me was always (at the beginning), have the patient sign a contract and at the same time have them sign a change of caregiver form (caregiver attestation) so that by sending $10 to MDCH you can always end the relationship at any time of your choosing.

[BlueSmoke]

Dealing with a difficult patient is not an enjoyable experience. I have had to drop a patient in the past, and it was a hard decision to make, but ultimately was the correct one.

 

Here is how we deal with patients that are not family members

 

1. Meet face to face with them, and discuss what type of service they are expecting from a caregiver.

2. Be clear that as a caregiver, you are assisting several patients, and if you possess plants for them, they are part of a collective grow, and that they do not have any rights to the plants. If they wish to part ways with us as a caregiver, we will supply them, or their new caregiver with clones, if they provide us with 14 days of notice, and proof that the individual receiving the closes is legally able to posses plants.

3. Be clear on when meds will be available, and the cost. Explain that costs may vary between patients due to circumstances, and the price is set at the time of the agreement, and we will honor it for the term of the agreement.

4. Discuss delivery options, and that we will not be able to drop what we are doing at a moments notice to deliver meds. We prefer that our patients place their order on our website, and select the time for delivery. This way they can see the meds we have available, and make their selection. We ask for 48 hrs notice on deliveries.

5. We offer refunds on unused meds that do not meet the patients standards or needs. This has only come into play for us when we have had to augment our supply with meds from another caregiver, but we do not want the patient to feel that they have not gotten what they have paid for.

6. If a caregiver change is needed, we will pay the $10 change fee.

 

The important thing to keep in mind. If you get a bad feeling before you sign up a patient or a caregiver....DON"T SIGN THEM UP. Trust your instincts, and you will be better off for this.

 

There are bad patients and caregivers out there, and there are great ones out there. Take time to find people that you feel comfortable dealing with, and select those people. As caregivers, we can each have only 5 patients, so choose the patients that meet what you plan on offering as a caregiver, and also your med supply. Under no circumstances should a patient be signed up that you have no way of keeping an adequate supply of meds for. This just hurts your patients, and your reputation.

 

Blue Skies!

[jamesh2010]

Id like to know more details honestly about how "demanding" this patient is. I mean if this patient is out of meds due to his caregiver why should he not be demanding. Honestly the way I look at it is if you cannot handle the job then do not take on the patient. 99% of caregivers sell off overages and make a tidy sum not to mention ALSO charging the patient hundreds of dollars a month. The way the law is right now the caregivers have all the advantages and NONE of the disadvantages. Your "patient" doesnt have money this month most of you supposed caregivers would let them suffer instead of providing medicine. Nevermind you "caregivers" make a fortune off the patient's plants.

 

We cannot just hear one side of this story and then assume it was all the patient. Id say most fights are minimum 50-50. My grandmother used to say "It takes two people to fight.". Alot of patients are being put on the back burner so the supposed caregiver can make a profit. Caregivers act like it is all about them and how much money they can make. We all know growing ( Medical Marijuana ) is cheap it doesnt cost $400 an oz to grow. Then the caregiver sells any overages, hash made from trimmings etc etc while the whole time raking his "patient" over the coals for more money. Ask for medicine you are "demanding".

 

Mod edited word

[+Dizledot]

thats the kind of stuff that scares me Dizz

 

It's all true...this person also filed a complaint with adult protective services which they were able to confirm as true. How on earth do you get rid of someone like this. Is there a way to sever your caregiver patient relationship with the state?