Tax Revenue And The Mmma - Mi Dept. Of Treasury Opinion

[DreamWarrior67]

I think no matter what we do they will always want more

it is a slippery slope when dealing with the gov.

to many back door deals that we don't know about,

no matter what we will end up on the short end of the stick.

 

keep up the good work BB

 

Their conclusion is they don't have the authority to enforce the tax laws, because it is out of the realm of their jurisdiction. Further another response indicates that dispensaries are illegal under state law, or not legal.

 

Now we're getting to the meat of the states problem. They want the money. They just don't have the right to collect it currently. The question for the community becomes, if we provide an anonymous means to collect and pay taxes, would they cease and desist in their legislative activities and the judiciary in it's enforcement activities? Pile in folks. Thanks, Bb

[DayTripper]

We need to be focused on the Act as written and not anything else.

 

I did not mean for my statement to be taken as a threat or a means to stifle discussion; believe me I welcome open dialog.

 

I see offering them anything to leave me alone after they have done everything in thier power to harrass me as a waste of time.

 

The town I live in flat out outlawed me, and I didn't even use a Marijuana Doctor, a Caregiver, a Dispensary, or a Compassion Center.

Other towns have passed regulations concerning Dispensaries that directly affect Patients and Caregivers who follow the law, and every darn one of them is illegal. I don't need to give Lansing any more revenue than the $100/year they get for issuing my cards late to expect them not to violate my Civil Rights by the color of thier office.

 

Tim Beck, MACC, and every carpetbagger out there keeps trying to represent us and give away our rights.

You have stood firm for our Rights Blueberry; it is frightening that someone may have gotten to you when you to ask us what we think about volunteering taxes to make them go away.

Almost an automatic reaction after all of the heartbreak and fear.

 

There are a few people in this State that spend a lot of money trying to create chaos so the State will give in and take thier tax revenue; I'm not among them, and I believe that the vast majority of the patients in Michigan aren't either.

[+Silverblue]

I agree they have trampled on our rights and have proven they are not honorable or worthy of our trust. They will gladly take our money but still refuse to give us anything, although our rights are not theirs to tamper with, negotiate with or take from us. They cannot give or take away something we are all born with the right to have. Countless times we have proven worthy of those rights- so many who fought for and died for those rights would turn over in their graves if anyone even dared utter even one syllable suggesting we trade away ANY our rights.

 

Sb

[DayTripper]

We'll be there on the 25th.

 

It's time to say enough to those who won't implement or honor the law as written.

 

We must all remember that our neighbors voted 2 to 1 for patients to be able to use marijuana they grow themselves or obtain from a Caregiver who would work for 'reasonable cost associated with assisting a Registered Patient in the use of Medical Marihuana'.

 

Everytime some caregiver tells how lucrative this is, and how many jobs it will create, it creates an image of drug dealers reaping a fortune off the backs of the Chronic and Terminally Ill. Just like dispensaries do when they haul out Harleys, Ferraris, and Studebakers, along with the rest of the 'evidence' in a bust.

 

And we must all remember that the MMMA clearly states that all other laws shall not apply if they are in conflict with the Act. That means every law in Michigan made by any locality or the State or the federal government. State and Local officials can not elect to enforce federal law - there was another ruling reaffirming this yesterday in the AZ immigration case. There is solid case law in Michigan that affirms it is illegal for any municipality to enact any ordinance that conflicts with voter inititives. Read the first sentence of this paragraph again, and then reread the last sentence if you are still confused.

 

They are the lawbreakers: we need to demand that they follow the law in a uniform and fair manner and to start coming to us for input when they have concerns.

 

We should tell them we understand that dispensaries are not in the law, and that we accept that for now. We should tell them that we would like to have that option, and don't much care how they set it up as long as they don't touch our current rights under the MMMA.

 

There: we just gave them dispensaries to fight with the Tim Becks over, and in return they take Nothing.

 

Those dummies will salivate over not having to fight us for revenue from dispensaries and will fall over themselves designing the cash cow they percieve there even if the Feds are not playing nice right now.

 

Most of us want full legalization; but the paeple of Michigan voted for, and still support us 2-1, for MEDICAL marijuana. OUR fight is MEDICAL Marijuana. It's not taxes, Unions, Democrats, or Republicans. The same right wingers who elected this last bunch of Republicans also voted 2-1 for the MMMAct. In my town, that outlawed me with their ordinance, the rightwingers voted 64% for me and you. It's not the people we need to fear - it's getting off message and supporting those whose only concern is the almighty dollar.

[CedarSpringsCG]

Everytime some caregiver tells how lucrative this is, and how many jobs it will create, it creates an image of drug dealers reaping a fortune off the backs of the Chronic and Terminally Ill. Just like dispensaries do when they haul out Harleys, Ferraris, and Studebakers, along with the rest of the 'evidence' in a bust.

I have been very vocal on the boards that I think dispensaries should be allowed. I know I am the minority here. However, I 100% agree with your statements that dispensaries are not in the law right now. And that the legislature should concentrate on that, not the MMMA as it stands. They should make laws for if you want a business with a store front. But, leave the system that is in place alone. That way people have choices and options, you can go to a dispensary and get meds, or you can use your CG. They don't need to be exclusive either, you can have a CG, but pop into a dispensary once and a while between harvests or to try out new strains.

 

They should concentrate on "enhancing" the current laws to put rules in place for things that are not there. Like the ability to sell to a dispensary without prosecution. License dispensaries to be able to carry more than 2.5oz per registered PT. Enhance it, don't limit it. I think the people we have in lansing now have the mindset of limiting what we can do instead of putting in place rules to help us.

 

And on that, if they had a NEW law for dispensaries, that included a sales tax (sales tax only at a dispensary, not from your CG, not for growing it yourself) then I would support it. If they had a $25,000 business license for a MMJ business, that's OK too (drives up prices, but that's another discussion). If they made you count inventory and send it in monthly (no PT names of course), that's OK. And video cameras covering 100% of your store (except bathrooms, that's just creepy) and those cameras HAVE to have the video stored offsite and be monitored 24/7, OK by me. And of course, lastly I could see them putting in that it cannot be consumed on premises, but that's only for a profit bearing, non-club, storefront.

 

So, even though I am in the minority in thinking Dispensaries can be a good thing, I am still for leaving the current Act completely alone, just adding to it and enhancing what is already there.

 

Hope I made sense.

Cedar

[Guest thequietone]

I know taxes are a touchy subject with people, but we need to remember a couple of things about income taxes. The US Constitution give the federal government the right to collect income tax from any source whatsoever.

 

"Section 8. The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

 

Amendment XVI

 

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several states, and without regard to any census or enumeration."

 

In Michigan the income tax act of 1967, act 281 of 1967 give the state the right to collect income taxes from any source and at what rate it shall be collected.

 

"Sec. 51.

 

(1) For receiving, earning, or otherwise acquiring income from any source whatsoever, there is levied and imposed upon the taxable income of every person other than a corporation a tax at the following rates in the following circumstances:

 

(a) Before May 1, 1994, 4.6%.

 

(b) After April 30, 1994 and before January 1, 2000, 4.4%.

 

© For tax years that begin on and after January 1, 2000 and before January 1, 2002, 4.2%.

 

(d) For tax years that begin on and after January 1, 2002 and before January 1, 2003, 4.1%.

 

(e) On and after January 1, 2003 and before July 1, 2004, 4.0%.

 

(f) On and after July 1, 2004 and before October 1, 2007, 3.9%.

 

(g) On and after October 1, 2007 and before October 1, 2011, 4.35%.

 

(h) Beginning on October 1, 2011 and each October 1 after 2011, the maximum rate under this subsection shall be reduced by 0.1 each year until the rate is 3.95%.

 

(i) On and after October 1, 2015, 3.9%."

 

I think it is anything over 600 dollars has to be claimed on your taxes. Now most caregivers are probably going to be making more then that a year. So this discussion needs to be had in order for the community to remain safe. Remember they took down Capone for tax evasion on the illegal money he made so what makes anyone think they won't come after caregivers for income tax fraud. Trust me you don't need to own them hundreds of thousands of dollars for them to come after you.

 

Now if they want to collect sales tax then they need to legalize it and regulate dispensaries so people have access to it. But that is a discussion for another forum.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[DayTripper]

I have been very vocal on the boards that I think dispensaries should be allowed. I know I am the minority here. However, I 100% agree with your statements that dispensaries are not in the law right now. And that the legislature should concentrate on that, not the MMMA as it stands. They should make laws for if you want a business with a store front. But, leave the system that is in place alone. That way people have choices and options, you can go to a dispensary and get meds, or you can use your CG. They don't need to be exclusive either, you can have a CG, but pop into a dispensary once and a while between harvests or to try out new strains.

 

They should concentrate on "enhancing" the current laws to put rules in place for things that are not there. Like the ability to sell to a dispensary without prosecution. License dispensaries to be able to carry more than 2.5oz per registered PT. Enhance it, don't limit it. I think the people we have in lansing now have the mindset of limiting what we can do instead of putting in place rules to help us.

 

And on that, if they had a NEW law for dispensaries, that included a sales tax (sales tax only at a dispensary, not from your CG, not for growing it yourself) then I would support it. If they had a $25,000 business license for a MMJ business, that's OK too (drives up prices, but that's another discussion). If they made you count inventory and send it in monthly (no PT names of course), that's OK. And video cameras covering 100% of your store (except bathrooms, that's just creepy) and those cameras HAVE to have the video stored offsite and be monitored 24/7, OK by me. And of course, lastly I could see them putting in that it cannot be consumed on premises, but that's only for a profit bearing, non-club, storefront.

 

So, even though I am in the minority in thinking Dispensaries can be a good thing, I am still for leaving the current Act completely alone, just adding to it and enhancing what is already there.

 

Hope I made sense.

Cedar

 

My friend I think we have found some common ground that most of us could support and work together on.

 

I believe this community could be an assett in helping the dispensaries come into legal being; but we all must stand up for what we have first, and not accept that a law that was not fairly and evenly implemented as required by statute is somehow broken or grey.

 

The real thing we might want, (and I beg the Courts patience here and ask that the Court in it's wisdom determine the law for me), is for the legislature to ask for a finding of fact on the MMMA from the AG. We would need a specific mandate for him to follow; we want all questions answered at once. Possibly the legislature can require him to do a comprehensive finding on the entire Act.

 

Now I know this sounds like suicide; but if my legal theory is correct: he has to accept the challenge and he has to do it with sound legal arguments to back up his claims.

Or he gets his butt handed to him in an emergency appeal.

 

If we think back to AG Cox: he was one time petitioned for a finding from the MDCH in regards those records want from them, and Cox who did not one thing to ease our suffering when he was well aware of our plight - that same Cox ruled in our favor and by the LAW.'

 

I believe those who understand this approach have either been too afraid to face off with the prohibitionist government officials or are working for the enemy. Our law is stronger than Schutte, or any PA or County Party Boss. Think this through please: AG finds exactly as law is written when government agency BOTHERS to seek guidance from the AG. Others scream that they need fixes and clarification, AND then ignore sound legal advice to ask the AG to clarify for everyone. The reason they don't go through the normal and accepted process for other answers is because they KNOW THEY CAN'T BEAT US IF WE FIGHT THIS FIGHT properly.

[DayTripper]

I know taxes are a touchy subject with people, but we need to remember a couple of things about income taxes. The US Constitution give the federal government the right to collect income tax from any source whatsoever.

 

"Section 8. The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

 

Amendment XVI

 

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several states, and without regard to any census or enumeration."

 

In Michigan the income tax act of 1967, act 281 of 1967 give the state the right to collect income taxes from any source and at what rate it shall be collected.

 

"Sec. 51.

 

(1) For receiving, earning, or otherwise acquiring income from any source whatsoever, there is levied and imposed upon the taxable income of every person other than a corporation a tax at the following rates in the following circumstances:

 

(a) Before May 1, 1994, 4.6%.

 

(b) After April 30, 1994 and before January 1, 2000, 4.4%.

 

© For tax years that begin on and after January 1, 2000 and before January 1, 2002, 4.2%.

 

(d) For tax years that begin on and after January 1, 2002 and before January 1, 2003, 4.1%.

 

(e) On and after January 1, 2003 and before July 1, 2004, 4.0%.

 

(f) On and after July 1, 2004 and before October 1, 2007, 3.9%.

 

(g) On and after October 1, 2007 and before October 1, 2011, 4.35%.

 

(h) Beginning on October 1, 2011 and each October 1 after 2011, the maximum rate under this subsection shall be reduced by 0.1 each year until the rate is 3.95%.

 

(i) On and after October 1, 2015, 3.9%."

 

I think it is anything over 600 dollars has to be claimed on your taxes. Now most caregivers are probably going to be making more then that a year. So this discussion needs to be had in order for the community to remain safe. Remember they took down Capone for tax evasion on the illegal money he made so what makes anyone think they won't come after caregivers for income tax fraud. Trust me you don't need to own them hundreds of thousands of dollars for them to come after you.

 

Now if they want to collect sales tax then they need to legalize it and regulate dispensaries so people have access to it. But that is a discussion for another forum.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

The federal rules apply - the State rules do not apply and the Treasury just affirmed that view in the .pdf.

[phaquetoo]

Their conclusion is they don't have the authority to enforce the tax laws, because it is out of the realm of their jurisdiction. Further another response indicates that dispensaries are illegal under state law, or not legal.

 

Now we're getting to the meat of the states problem. They want the money. They just don't have the right to collect it currently. The question for the community becomes, if we provide an anonymous means to collect and pay taxes, would they cease and desist in their legislative activities and the judiciary in it's enforcement activities? Pile in folks. Thanks, Bb

 

 

Im afraid it is easier for them to arrest us and confiscate everything they can, Including our own personal money! Most folks dont want to hire an attny or post bond to get their property back *(i shouldnt say most folks) some will fight on to get back what is theres!

 

I dont know b.b Its like L. E wants there cake and eat it to,,,we all get legal and they come and arrest us. I dont know about you, but I dont sell any of my meds, I will donate some to some one needy,,,but i have cash on hand, We cant use the banks if we get extra, we get penalized! only rich folks can have a bank acct and not worry about the I.R.S or county! My county pays for my medicare now (96bucks a month) for some one on disability thats a bill or maybe half tank of gas. my point is, is our cash is at home if we get raided its gone! easier for l.e to just take it than collect taxes on it!

 

I was self employed my whole adult life, till becoming disabled, I did pay my self employment tax (ssi) Being 48 and getting 8 yrs back pay when i finaly won, Im hoping to get all mine back before they take that from us also!

 

pay taxes for p2p transfers just realy seems rediculious! or c.g 2 pt!,,,,I feel vonurable enough just being in their registry!

 

Peace

FTW

Jim

[Mr CPA]

I started my medical marijuana practice a year ago specifically because of idiots that were posting on the michiganmedicalmarijuana.org Tax forum. Its clear that some of the members are stuck in the same place they were a year ago.

 

I'm appalled by some of the comments on this thread. How dare you fling mud, call out individuals, and attack organizations that are publicly fighting for the Michigan Medical Marihuana Act. You must think you're some sort of geniuses with your glib comments. Except no one is laughing.

 

I thought this was important news to share with all of the stakeholders in the Michigan medical marijuana movement. A lot of you realize that the most important part of the letter isn't even about the taxation issue. Those that think this is a dispensary endorsement should do the forum a favor and slam your fingers in a door so you can't type. Those that are publicly stating their refusal to pay taxes need to go medicate on their tailpipe. The tax man is the boogeyman. Stop being stupid.

 

James Campbell CPA

NUMBERS Professional Accounting Services

[Mr CPA]

Wrong. You need to reread the act.

 

I vote no, and I'm not going to be wanting to march, to bargain away my rights so dispensaries can make a buck off of my misery.

 

You folks need to reread the ACT - we can only recover REASONABLE costs associated with assisting patients - that's not $20, $30, or $40 bucks a gram; it's more like $40 a plant. So once again - if we claim caregivers can make a profit then we are claiming the Act says we can make SALES, and if you win that bs argument in Lansing then you will have 75% willing to 'fix' it.

 

And I'll be damned if I'm going to pay a use tax for medicine I grow in my own home just because Lansing politicians want to pick my pocket.

 

They have arrested us, beaten us, fired us, stopped treating us, and now we contemplate offering them money to go away?

 

That's a hell of a way to seize ones freedom from tyrants. In fact it would make us look like drug dealers only worried about protecting our cash cow.

[Mr CPA]

Give me a break. Reposting it was the simple act.

 

 

No Problem.

 

It is simply a brush stroke on the canvas of what we understand as the Michigan Medical Marihuana Program.

 

Reasoned observation and sensible deductions is the approach to be taken.

 

Overreaction and outrage leads to improper interpretations and unreasoned responses.

 

A simple question was asked of the Treasury, a simple response was made.

 

 

I think most of us already understood the concepts addressed in the letter, but an official response is better than simple conjecture.

 

Take it for what it is, the opinion of the Treasury.

[greenbuddha]

I have been very vocal on the boards that I think dispensaries should be allowed. I know I am the minority here. However, I 100% agree with your statements that dispensaries are not in the law right now. And that the legislature should concentrate on that, not the MMMA as it stands. They should make laws for if you want a business with a store front. But, leave the system that is in place alone. That way people have choices and options, you can go to a dispensary and get meds, or you can use your CG. They don't need to be exclusive either, you can have a CG, but pop into a dispensary once and a while between harvests or to try out new strains.

 

They should concentrate on "enhancing" the current laws to put rules in place for things that are not there. Like the ability to sell to a dispensary without prosecution. License dispensaries to be able to carry more than 2.5oz per registered PT. Enhance it, don't limit it. I think the people we have in lansing now have the mindset of limiting what we can do instead of putting in place rules to help us.

 

And on that, if they had a NEW law for dispensaries, that included a sales tax (sales tax only at a dispensary, not from your CG, not for growing it yourself) then I would support it. If they had a $25,000 business license for a MMJ business, that's OK too (drives up prices, but that's another discussion). If they made you count inventory and send it in monthly (no PT names of course), that's OK. And video cameras covering 100% of your store (except bathrooms, that's just creepy) and those cameras HAVE to have the video stored offsite and be monitored 24/7, OK by me. And of course, lastly I could see them putting in that it cannot be consumed on premises, but that's only for a profit bearing, non-club, storefront.

 

So, even though I am in the minority in thinking Dispensaries can be a good thing, I am still for leaving the current Act completely alone, just adding to it and enhancing what is already there.

 

Hope I made sense.

Cedar

 

 

IMHO you made a great deal of sense.

[DayTripper]

I started my medical marijuana practice a year ago specifically because of idiots that were posting on the michiganmedicalmarijuana.org Tax forum. Its clear that some of the members are stuck in the same place they were a year ago.

 

I'm appalled by some of the comments on this thread. How dare you fling mud, call out individuals, and attack organizations that are publicly fighting for the Michigan Medical Marihuana Act. You must think you're some sort of geniuses with your glib comments. Except no one is laughing.

 

I thought this was important news to share with all of the stakeholders in the Michigan medical marijuana movement. A lot of you realize that the most important part of the letter isn't even about the taxation issue. Those that think this is a dispensary endorsement should do the forum a favor and slam your fingers in a door so you can't type. Those that are publicly stating their refusal to pay taxes need to go medicate on their tailpipe. The tax man is the boogeyman. Stop being stupid.

 

James Campbell CPA

.... ad deleted ...

 

emphasis mine

 

 

How dare you to claim that you represent 'fighting for the MMMA' while enabling those who drive Bentleys and Ferraris to gouge the sick and dying at $40 a gram in illegal operations that bring tremendous heat and turmoil down on the Patients this act was passed to protect!

 

There are no legal dispensaries and there is no PROFIT to pay you with when one works 'in accordance with this Act'.

 

Now - I'm not saying folks won't make a profit; but if you do don't be stupid and pay taxes on it to the State.

That's an admission of a crime - a felony. One conviction for anything drug related and you can kiss your caregiver gig away.

 

---

 

For a minute there I thought you wanted me to do a Fast Eddie to myself; then I realized you actually want me to die a horrible death.

I'm a little slow sometimes. Seems a bit harsh though.

Doesn't strike me as fighting for the medical marijuana community at all.

Feels more like unfeeling intimidation from a guy who saw stupid people posting stupid comments and decided to start a stupid business to take advantage of the stupid people and there stupid money.

----

 

I guess if Lansing were to entertain the concept that we want the law clarified and implemented as written you would need to make an honest living. That's scary stuff. Anger is always a result of some fear; it is a warning that something is not right in your world. That's a valid emotion for you here. Thanks for sharing.

 

edit...

 

The document you shared does have other implications; but the Treasury opinion wouldn't be binding on any other than taxes. It's nice to see reasoned legal opinion though.

 

I maintain that if you need an accountant because of your caregiving activities one has gone way beyond the intent of the voters and the law.

If one is repeatedly growing more than they need to supply patients they are registered to caregive for it looks like some sort of money making scheme to many of our opponents. I know stuff happens; but until P2P and/or Dispensary is actully reconized by the Legislature and the Court, and they set rules for the outcome and how income or sales or use or whatever taxes that will extract from them are to be implemented if you collect taxes other than federal you are saying you are making sales...

 

If a caregiver or patient is protected by the MMMA because the law or rules declare transfers Not to be a Sale how can one turn around and say oh but Yes this is and here is my Sales tax?

 

...end edit

[MORE COWBELL]

My friend I think we have found some common ground that most of us could support and work together on.

 

I believe this community could be an assett in helping the dispensaries come into legal being; but we all must stand up for what we have first, and not accept that a law that was not fairly and evenly implemented as required by statute is somehow broken or grey.

 

The real thing we might want, (and I beg the Courts patience here and ask that the Court in it's wisdom determine the law for me), is for the legislature to ask for a finding of fact on the MMMA from the AG. We would need a specific mandate for him to follow; we want all questions answered at once. Possibly the legislature can require him to do a comprehensive finding on the entire Act.

 

Now I know this sounds like suicide; but if my legal theory is correct: he has to accept the challenge and he has to do it with sound legal arguments to back up his claims.

Or he gets his butt handed to him in an emergency appeal.

 

If we think back to AG Cox: he was one time petitioned for a finding from the MDCH in regards those records want from them, and Cox who did not one thing to ease our suffering when he was well aware of our plight - that same Cox ruled in our favor and by the LAW.'

 

I believe those who understand this approach have either been too afraid to face off with the prohibitionist government officials or are working for the enemy. Our law is stronger than Schutte, or any PA or County Party Boss. Think this through please: AG finds exactly as law is written when government agency BOTHERS to seek guidance from the AG. Others scream that they need fixes and clarification, AND then ignore sound legal advice to ask the AG to clarify for everyone. The reason they don't go through the normal and accepted process for other answers is because they KNOW THEY CAN'T BEAT US IF WE FIGHT THIS FIGHT properly.

 

very well said -DT!

[MORE COWBELL]

I started my medical marijuana practice a year ago specifically because of idiots that were posting on the michiganmedicalmarijuana.org Tax forum. Its clear that some of the members are stuck in the same place they were a year ago.

 

I'm appalled by some of the comments on this thread. How dare you fling mud, call out individuals, and attack organizations that are publicly fighting for the Michigan Medical Marihuana Act. You must think you're some sort of geniuses with your glib comments. Except no one is laughing.

 

I thought this was important news to share with all of the stakeholders in the Michigan medical marijuana movement. A lot of you realize that the most important part of the letter isn't even about the taxation issue. Those that think this is a dispensary endorsement should do the forum a favor and slam your fingers in a door so you can't type. Those that are publicly stating their refusal to pay taxes need to go medicate on their tailpipe. The tax man is the boogeyman. Stop being stupid.

 

James Campbell CPA

NUMBERS Professional Accounting Services

 

JAMES some of us appreciate your hard tiring work -we lifted your reply from Lansing and on Tuesday it was given to Holland city Hall-they do not know what quite to do-we shall see...thanks again-Tater

[CedarSpringsCG]

I started my medical marijuana practice a year ago specifically because of idiots that were posting on the michiganmedicalmarijuana.org Tax forum. Its clear that some of the members are stuck in the same place they were a year ago.

 

I'm appalled by some of the comments on this thread. How dare you fling mud, call out individuals, and attack organizations that are publicly fighting for the Michigan Medical Marihuana Act. You must think you're some sort of geniuses with your glib comments. Except no one is laughing.

 

I thought this was important news to share with all of the stakeholders in the Michigan medical marijuana movement. A lot of you realize that the most important part of the letter isn't even about the taxation issue. Those that think this is a dispensary endorsement should do the forum a favor and slam your fingers in a door so you can't type. Those that are publicly stating their refusal to pay taxes need to go medicate on their tailpipe. The tax man is the boogeyman. Stop being stupid.

 

James Campbell CPA

NUMBERS Professional Accounting Services

Mr. CPA.

Have you read the law? Please show me, where in Michigan do you pay tax on a service? The MM Law specifically says that a PT compensating a CG for giving them MMJ is in no way paying for an illegal substance, but instead paying for a service. I work in service, and I can tell you, there are no taxes for services such as these. It does not constitute the sale of any substance. So how do you pay taxes on that?

 

the mud flinging is mostly towards the people who want to turn this into a Dispensary only system like what AZ is doing. That isn't our law, and that shouldn't change. I personally am for dispensaries being added to what we already have. And they should pay tax, and additional fees for inspections, audits, etc. But if someone is paying me for a gardening service, and a non-skilled nurse care, why would they pay tax on it?

 

As far as income tax goes, yes, I would have to pay income tax on any profit. but that's income tax I pay, not sales tax on an illegal substance. the law says I am not selling an illegal substance, so without changing it, please explain how there should be tax charged on it?

thanks

cedar

 

edited to sound a little less agressive

[Guest Happy Guy]

The MMA does not authorize either a regulatory or enforcement role for the Department of Treasury. Further, the MMA is administered solely by the Michigan Department of Community Health which is prohibited from releasing patient or caregiver information from the registry. The MMA DOES NOT provide for state regulated retail stores or dispensaries. Finally, the MMA SPECICALLY STATES THAT THE TRANSACTION BETWEEN A PATIENT AND CAREGIVER IS NOT A SALE OF MEDICAL MARIJUANA.

 

I think that means NO SALES TAX. As a patient and caregiver, I vote to keep it that way. Just in case the MM law isn't taking care of herself on this, let's stay focused to keep it this way. Any changes would be a mistake IMO. We donate hundreds of thousands of dollars to the State each year with our registrations so we are already paying our way. Watch out for bait and switch.

[MORE COWBELL]

TOUCH'E happy guy!

 

this is what is so great about this site!

 

we all get to be in discussion-relationship-communication to work this all out before THEY DO

 

-ROCK ON

 

 

greatpost!

[+420Atheist]

Let me say this again. There is no Michigan sales tax on services. However there is tax on personal income. I work for a IT company that is nothing but services. We don't charge sales tax for those services but I have to pay taxes on my income from my work.

 

As far as I know there is no requirement to put on the tax form that "I got this money for my marijuana growing service." I think we are all smart enough to put something on the form that would not raise eyebrows.

 

I really don't care if anyone pays their taxes or not. It is a risk you all can weigh for yourselves. But at least know that it is a risk.

[DayTripper]

Let me say this again. There is no Michigan sales tax on services. However there is tax on personal income. I work for a IT company that is nothing but services. We don't charge sales tax for those services but I have to pay taxes on my income from my work.

 

As far as I know there is no requirement to put on the tax form that "I got this money for my marijuana growing service." I think we are all smart enough to put something on the form that would not raise eyebrows.

 

I really don't care if anyone pays their taxes or not. It is a risk you all can weigh for yourselves. But at least know that it is a risk.

 

The federal government recognizes everything as taxable; but our law states that any law that conflicts with the Act shall not apply and so you can't possibly derive State taxable income from providing marihuana as a service. You could say your time spent growing and delivering is a "service" and then derive income tax from that approach if it makes you feel safer. Income taxes for services aren't in there anymore than dispensaries are in my opinion. If it's not in the Act proper, or in the current Rules by the Department, it's not in the law.

 

This is a silly game.

Rolling the dice without knowing the rules.

The only way we are all going to be able to work in tandem is if we know where we are to start with.

Right now the only square we are sure of on this Monopoly board is the Jail.

We don't know where Free Parking is and we don't know where "Go to Jail - Do Not Pass Go!" is.

If we at least knew where "Go" is we could all agree on the rules of the game, and roll to see who goes first.

 

I want Lansing to set the AG to work and report back to them in a timely fashion on just what the answers to all of these questions are in his opinion as Michigan AG. It is freaking insane to bargain/demand our Rights when no one knows where to start. Lansing doesn;t know, the local PAs don't know, ditto the cops and the Judges and the caregivers and the patients and the media and the dispensary cats and their accountants.

 

We need clarity.

[Guest Happy Guy]

Let me say this again. There is no Michigan sales tax on services. However there is tax on personal income. I work for a IT company that is nothing but services. We don't charge sales tax for those services but I have to pay taxes on my income from my work.

 

As far as I know there is no requirement to put on the tax form that "I got this money for my marijuana growing service." I think we are all smart enough to put something on the form that would not raise eyebrows.

 

I really don't care if anyone pays their taxes or not. It is a risk you all can weigh for yourselves. But at least know that it is a risk.

We have a letter from The Department of Treasury that says very clearly that caregiver services are non taxable. Just wanted that to be crystal clear. I've been a caregiver for years now and there's not a whole lot of income anyway, if you keep track....

[CedarSpringsCG]

We have a letter from The Department of Treasury that says very clearly that caregiver services are non taxable. Just wanted that to be crystal clear. I've been a caregiver for years now and there's not a whole lot of income anyway, if you keep track....

I think some of us are getting confused as to what this letter is. The letter clearly states that "The MMA re-characterizes what might otherwise be a taxable sale of tangible personal property as a non-taxable caregiver service."

 

Meaning it is not subject to sales tax even though some might view it as the sale of "tangible property" which is subject to sales tax. Sales and use tax is the 6% tax you have added onto things you buy like a CD.

 

THIS letter is saying that there is no 6% sales and use tax but I don't read where it even mentions income tax. Income tax is what you pay quarterly as self employed or if it is low enough, once a year by April 15th. Nowhere does it say you don't pay INCOME TAX, it says you don't pay SALES TAX. There is a big difference. Income tax is not 6% and it is not collected from the person receiving the goods.

 

So you DO have to report this legally as INCOME on your tax returns. You do not have to collect 6% from your patients when you sell them something. That's what this says.

 

Once again, this letter is about sales tax, not income tax. If you work for a non-profit organization you still have to pay income tax. The person making an income from work is TAXABLE in MI, and by the feds. There is no loophole and there is no way around it except by not declaring it which is illegal.

 

Income from a service is taxable as income. Income from a service has no sales tax in MI because services are not taxed. 420Atheist is right on when he says his company does not charge tax when they sell his time, but he DOES pay tax when he gets his paycheck. IT IS THE SAME FOR CAREGIVER SERVICES.

 

Anyone who isn't declaring money they make if it is over $600 is just asking to be caponed.

Cedar

[Guest Happy Guy]

In reality... were we live..lol

If your patient DID declare it with YOUR social security number AND you didn't have enough paperwork for expenses to cover what your patient declared you collected, THEN you would have to declare it as income. Lot of HINTS. lol There is not a lot of income if you follow the rules. That is why 'dispensaries for the profit takers' are being set up because you need more than 5 'customers'(patients) to make a financial go of caregiving. Caregiving is like donating your time and if you need to profit you will go elsewhere. I see most people talking about income tax before they realize what MM caregiving really is. It takes a lot of 'back peddling' when someone high up tells the news that $50K a year is possible being a caregiver. Sometimes you just shake your head and wonder what they were thinking.

[CedarSpringsCG]

In reality... were we live..lol

If your patient DID declare it with YOUR social security number AND you didn't have enough paperwork for expenses to cover what your patient declared you collected, THEN you would have to declare it as income. Lot of HINTS. lol There is not a lot of income if you follow the rules. That is why 'dispensaries for the profit takers' are being set up because you need more than 5 'customers'(patients) to make a financial go of caregiving. Caregiving is like donating your time and if you need to profit you will go elsewhere. I see most people talking about income tax before they realize what MM caregiving really is. It takes a lot of 'back peddling' when someone high up tells the news that $50K a year is possible being a caregiver. Sometimes you just shake your head and wonder what they were thinking.

Totally agree Happy... But if you were to sell overages in P2P or something, and did end up profiting say $10k off of it in a year, that SHOULD be declared...

 

And I completely agree on you need more than 5 PT's to be profitable. My township is trying to make it so you have to be in a commercial location and operate like a dispensary, but by their own ordinance, you can only service your 5 PT's... I was like wait, now I have to rent a commercial location and be open during all business hours, 2 people working there and I cna only have 5 customers? How the heck does that make it unless my PT's are all millionaires that like to blow money.