Jump to content
orwell1984

Veganic Soil Recipes?

Recommended Posts

Hi,

 

I'm fairly new at growing but have just gotten through my first grow, and did a pretty good job, (the smoke is AWESOME! ) using the full Roots Organics Line, and their soil, in 1 gallon pots. Next time around I plan to shoot for a much bigger harvest, by using 3 or 5 gallon containers, and do 12 plants in Roots and 12 plants in General Organics Vganic line (i'm friends with the owner of Northern Lights Hydroponics and he was nice enogh to through me the sample "Go Box" from that company). I would like to have the 12 plants that will be getting feds Veganic nutrients, also be using a Veganic Soil... any recipes? I would love to use a COCO based mix if possible, preferably something hot enough that I don't have to add nutes for the first two weeks of true Veg. Any help is appreciated... and NO i'm not a vegan, but I have a lot of respect for that lifestyle.

 

-Nick

Edited by orwell1984

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I too was interested in trying out growing veganic, let us know how this went for you? I was looking up stuff on on youtube, about veganics and was watching Kyle Kushmans line, but I do want do a home made mix so if anyone has any good recopies please post them!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well the Veganic definition can get pretty hairy, sometimes you can use poop, other times you cant. If poop is ok with your vegan patients, then this is a mix I would recommend.

 

5 5kg Bricks Coco (GH or Botanicare work fine), or 5 2cuft bags of loose coco

1 3.8cuft compressed Promix BX is the most widely available or 2 of the loose fill bags northern lights carries since you are familiar with joe and co.

1 2cuft Bag Happy Frog Original

1 1cuft bag FoxFarm OG Red Bag

1 Box of Dr. Earth Alfalfa Meal

1 bag of Alga-Min dry Kelp

1 Box of Dr. Earth Cotton Seed Meal

1 5lb Box of Sun Leaves Jamaican Guano

1 1cuft bag of Wiggle Worm or similar worm casting

1 1cuft bag of GO Ancient Forest

Mix it up on a tarp, pretty easy.

 

Use these by dusting the hole just before transplant, ensure direct root contact!

 

1 1lb bag of Mykos

1 1lb bag of Azo's

 

As for nutes, use the GO stuff for now, and then try the Bio-Bizz starter pack, I'm pretty sure Joe has em. I personally prefer the bio-bizz over GO, but no sense in switching now. Don't forget to either save some soil, or buy an additional bag of casting/humus to make organic teas with. I also like to add liquid kelp to my teas before brewing. I use the bio-bizz Alga-mic, but the GO Cold Pressed works just as well.

 

Happy farming man!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Veganic growing is all about promotion and silliness. There is no veganic in nature or reality. All those store bought bottles of veganic goodness are from plants grown with normal inputs. Worms crawling in soil is as natural as it gets. Birds pooping is natural. Heck even microbes take a dump lol.

 

How about a normal organic grow using botanicals for nutrients. I veg with homemade dandelion fermented plant extract. It cost me an hour or so to make, and works better than some store bought magic. It's dandelions and water if your interested, you chop the whole plants including roots, place in a jar fill with water and let it sit a month or so, strain and use. Most everyone can find within walking distance of their home plenty of botanical options that are free. Well there is the cost of knowledge....shredder

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One of the parts of the GO box is biomarine which is squid based.

 

Here's a little experiment for ya. Bubble up some nice organic tea. Keep it simple a little worm castings, some kelp meal, some molasses, maybe some sea bird guano. After it has bubbled for 24 to 36 hours and has a nice live active head on it add some General Organics Bio Marine, say a tablespoon or so. You will witness your lovely tea die off before you even finish adding that tablespoon into the mix.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As for veganics being silly, or peddled, I can agree. However, if you are a vegan its not so silly. I'm not vegan, and I don't live an "organic" life style. That doesn't stop me from applying organics and even veganics into the mix. Why? Because the plants respond in very positive ways when going this route.

 

To be honest, I have only had one person try and tell me that bat guano wasn't vegan, but I'll be damned before I give up my beloved Jamaican.

 

Hawkind, just a bit of knowledge I've gathered on teas, molasses should only be added at the end of the tea brewing just prior to watering. Reason being is that even in the best kept brewers bad bacteria still abound (Aerobic, and Anerobic), adding molasses is instant energy for most bacteria and you can end up with a very nasty tea (the awesome smell of vomit or sulfur permiating your grow room/house/building is just rude :P). Not always, I'd say around 10% of the time, but I've brewed probably over 10,000 gallons worth of tea over the last few years, and a 10% failure rate just isn't acceptable to me.

 

Now if we want to knock on any one it should be pointed at Big Mike and their guerrilla advertising PH perfect crap.

Edited by CaffeineForAll

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Caff you got me all wrong, I wasn't knocking GO's line of nutrients. I was just surprised that the Bio Marine killed the tea instantly. I should have mentioned that Organic Gem did the same thing. Also the GO Ancient Forest is awesome. This stuff is a deep rich black soil amendment, it reminds you of the soil in a bog or marsh, This has been the single best soil amendment I have found recently. Mix this in Pro Mix with some worm castings, kelp meal, Epsom salt, lime and guano and you will not be disappointed.

Edited by Hawkind

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Caff you got me all wrong, I wasn't knocking GO's line of nutrients. I was just surprised that the Bio Marine killed the tea instantly. I should have mentioned that Organic Gem did the same thing. Also the GO Ancient Forest is awesome. This stuff is a deep rich black soil amendment, it reminds you of the soil in a bog or marsh, This has been the single best soil amendment I have found recently. Mix this in Pro Mix with some worm castings, kelp meal, Epsom salt, lime and guano and you will not be disappointed.

 

Oh I wasn't commenting on that, you are dead right, any fish based product is generally super acidic. Too acidic and the poor babies die, they want it base, 8-9ph :D

 

You got it! Ancient Forest is the whip, but the stuff I get out of a michigan river bed is better and free! You should try and hunt down a small stream with soil that is around that same consistency, look for tall grass as they seem to LOVE the stuff :P

 

Happy growing!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok cool, alot of interesting and important things have just been brought up here.

 

First I would agree with Zapatos Blood and bone should be avoided in veganics and poop dose seem all good. I tell people the best way to grow is to be nature, in that you mimic real environmental growing condition as close as possible. It is laughable to me that we humans think we can beater 1000's of years of environmental engineering through modern science of maybe 100 years max. Sure synthetics can produce more but nothing we humans have made can compare to the quality of organics/ or veganics.... as long as it happens in nature. Think about poop, its everywhere and is an important part of the ecological balance. I would say the same thing about blood and bone, however it is probably never as concentrated as how we human apply it for cannabis. I suppose you could make the same argument for everything. and honestly I have had the best results by usung moderation, heck I really dont even feed after my transplants, usually only RO water till the end, and I am always willing to do a side by side comparison with whoever certain of victory over synthetics, and hoping for victory over another organics.

 

As for the organic commercial liquid fertilizers, I would say dont bother adding to your tea. Even though they are organic, they still contain a high amount of chelating through organic acids. This may throw your ph too far for the micro organisms in your tea.... Skunk magazine just had a bit about this in the last issue. I highly recommend organic grows reed this mag on the regular! You are much better off using dry amendment, for teas and soil. It takes a bit of time to break down these dry elements thereby not totally shocking the micro-life and plant. The point of these Chelating agents (synthetic or organic) is basically to force feed your plants. Would you be happy if someone force feed you?

 

The exception I make for liquids is molasses and fish emulsion, and maybe some b hormone.

 

Stay dry people!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kyle Kushman is peddling veganics through High Times, and calls it "beyond organics".

I have tried Kyles recipe and had great/tasty results. So i cant knock it.Kyle says no poop or animal product with the exception of worm castings.I have since switched to non veganic (by Kyles standards)because its easier to make a rich organic mix if it includes animal product.I will probably go back to full veganic next run cause I beleive it is tastier!Anyway the recipe I used was

5 gal sunshine

5 gal large perlite

2 gal ancient forest

2 gal worm castings

1 gal coco

fed heavy with bio canna.regularly fed with/Ej cat,ej microblast,go cal/mg plus kelp,humic acid,microbes,Natures nectar N small dose 6th week.Awsome results! Cant wait to get that goin again!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For those that challenge the idea of veganics I simply ask you to look around your environment. You really think that every bush, shrub, tree, flower or weed on the planet is grown using some form of animal byproduct? Take for instance... The Muir woods in the North bay area of California. This particular stretch of forest is called an "old growth forest". The reason for this is because the forest is massive and thousands of years old. The forest floor is soft, green, moist and above all else ALIVE. This is due to hundreds and hundreds of years of natural decomposition of plant mater that is recycled back into the ground as nutrients (with the help of time, weather and microbial life) for new plant life to feed on. You think animal crap has anything to do with how this forest has managed to thrive as one of the largest network of root systems in the world?? This is plant derived nutrition at its core. All you are doing by using plant derived nutes is replicating nature at its best. It's residue free, clean burning, great tasting high grade medical quality bud's that even "the best" growers can't even hold an efffin candle to. I challenge ANYONE to prove that they can grow better and cleaner meds with chemical fertilizers or animal based products!

Think about it... If you feed your plants crap the cell walls of that plant are going to be constructed out of crap and then you get to smoke it... mmmmmhhhhmmmmm nothing like smoking straight bat scat right??

 

Think you can prove me wrong? Take your best shot, I love to debate

Edited by MrGone

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Plant matter isn't recycled by magic, it has to be processed by the microbes, bacteria and fungi of the forest. They process it by eating it and then pooping it out. Plants can not use raw organic material, it has to be processed (ate and shat) by something else. When you feed something like bat poop, the plant isn't using the bat poop, the microbes are. Then they poop and the plant uses their poop.

 

Think about this. 400 years ago people thought plant roots were little mouths that "ate" the particles in the soil. We now know that this isn't true, well at least most of us.

 

Its not really a debate, its basic plant science.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Plant matter isn't recycled by magic, it has to be processed by the microbes, bacteria and fungi of the forest. They process it by eating it and then pooping it out. Plants can not use raw organic material, it has to be processed (ate and shat) by something else. When you feed something like bat poop, the plant isn't using the bat poop, the microbes are. Then they poop and the plant uses their poop.

 

Think about this. 400 years ago people thought plant roots were little mouths that "ate" the particles in the soil. We now know that this isn't true, well at least most of us.

 

Its not really a debate, its basic plant science.

 

 

 

That's why I said... "This is due to hundreds and hundreds of years of natural decomposition of plant mater that is recycled back into the ground as nutrients (with the help of time, weather and microbial life) for new plant life to feed on". Of course worms are helping facilitate this process as well. (eating organic matter and pooping out nutes) But to think that bear and deer crap are feeding the forest? And since bat guano can be a great source of soluble P and K, yes... The plants cells are constructed with the use of the macro nutrients in bat guano. The Mycorrhizal fungi and bacteria just help facilitate the process of breaking these nutrients down even more, so the plant can feed more efficiently. The plants roots could feed on the soluble P and K in the bat guano just fine with out microbial life, Just not as effectively. Veganics does not work unless you super charge your growing medium with microbial life.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For those that challenge the idea of veganics I simply ask you to look around your environment. You really think that every bush, shrub, tree, flower or weed on the planet is grown using some form of animal byproduct? Take for instance... The Muir woods in the North bay area of California. This particular stretch of forest is called an "old growth forest". The reason for this is because the forest is massive and thousands of years old. The forest floor is soft, green, moist and above all else ALIVE. This is due to hundreds and hundreds of years of natural decomposition of plant mater that is recycled back into the ground as nutrients (with the help of time, weather and microbial life) for new plant life to feed on. You think animal crap has anything to do with how this forest has managed to thrive as one of the largest network of root systems in the world?? This is plant derived nutrition at its core. All you are doing by using plant derived nutes is replicating nature at its best. It's residue free, clean burning, great tasting high grade medical quality bud's that even "the best" growers can't even hold an efffin candle to. I challenge ANYONE to prove that they can grow better and cleaner meds with chemical fertilizers or animal based products!

Think about it... If you feed your plants crap the cell walls of that plant are going to be constructed out of crap and then you get to smoke it... mmmmmhhhhmmmmm nothing like smoking straight bat scat right??

 

Think you can prove me wrong? Take your best shot, I love to debate

 

I would like to debate the fact that veganics does not exist in any working forest ecology, anywhere in the world.

Hundreds of thousands of animal species from the microscopic to large mammals live in trees and vegetation - from the the top of the canopy down to the deepest parts of earths crust.

Animals live in plants, eat plants, digest and excrete plants, reproduce in plants, and eventually die and become part of the soil that will feed that plant.

Animals and plants work in harmonious partnership to keep each other nourished and disease free.

It's symbiosis, and it works well - hence the old growth forests that we all love.

What do you think would happen if the Sequoias in Muir Woods had no more worms, insects, birds etc to churn and inoculate the soil, to prune it for new growth and compost it's bark and dead leaves, to feed on the parasites that might kill it?

This is the web of life, and it includes living animals, their poop, and their decomposed bodies.

 

Also, microbes convert organic matter into usable nutrient indiscriminately.

Phosphorus derived from guano is no different than phosphorus from vegan source after it is processed by microbes.

It's phosphorus, not bat or alfalfa phosphorus. The difference is in how quickly it breaks down, and to what degree.

Plant cells are not built of guano or cotton meal tea.

 

I totally support veganic cannabis for people with ethical or environmental objections, but I don't believe that it makes for "cleaner" or more "pure" plants.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...