Can I Introduce A New Dispensary On The Forums?

[roadworkahead]

There is a group that is working to establish quality standards for dispensaries in Michigan. And, generally, members of this group are noted as being some of the better dispensaries.

[Sinsemillaplease]

You clearly have no understanding of politics or the law. And I would venture to say you are probably vested in this view of yours.

 

That's a hilarious statement. I'm prelaw. Venture to say whatever you want... but I'm right about what I just said about the law. If you'd like me to prove it to you beyond the shadow of any doubt I can do that... but you'll drown in the reading I'm sure.

 

There is a group that is working to establish quality standards for dispensaries in Michigan. And, generally, members of this group are noted as being some of the better dispensaries.

 

Cannalytics in Lansing does GC/MS testing for 60/sample.

[nthlghts]

Text books do not give understanding of reality. You just stated in an earlier post that the local licenses means something, then you defend it with how the feds have no legal right. So my point stands you are clearly to young to understand.

 

 

quote name='Sinsemillaplease' timestamp='1306733767' post='300849']

That's a hilarious statement. I'm prelaw. Venture to say whatever you want... but I'm right about what I just said about the law. If you'd like me to prove it to you beyond the shadow of any doubt I can do that... but you'll drown in the reading I'm sure.

 

 

 

Cannalytics in Lansing does GC/MS testing for 60/sample.

[Guest Happy Guy]

California model dispensaries are illegal, but most Michigan model ones are not. A PT sells to a patient, and a patient sells to a PT. It is simply a p2p transfer which has been upheld as legal in court, not just by laymen reading the law and trying to interpret it, but by judges. Just because they have a store front doesn't make them illegal, the transaction is just a p2p.

 

I own a store and I could do p2p transfers inside of it. Nothing says I can't, and there are lots that say I can. Back room, locked door, nothing illegal about it, but that isn't my primary business function, so no one has a problem with it.

 

By hiding from the issue, we have no say in how they are implemented. The MI legislature could pass a law that completely legitimized dispensaries in a California model and we would have no say in it.

 

Beyond that, as I said the MMMA could set guidelines that the dispensary would have to adhere to in order to advertise. Only Michigan Meds, lower price for meds, why are we letting the MACC set up and determine how dispensaries are done here.

 

Advertised on here, our members could comment on each one, and say which are good and which aren't. Right now, we have no idea until we go there and buy something. Budfinder and weedlocater, etc have been extremely poor resources in finding dispensaries. I have used them and can't find any near me, but I go on message boards and I find there are some near.

 

We could put the bad dispensaries out of business, or at least hurt them enough that they change their ways. There will always be unscrupulus people running businesses, but those ones won't last, especially if we get the word out.

What has been described as a source for these two dispensaries written about here by the thread starter can't be stretched into P to P. It was written that Mr. Big is the soul source for two dispensaries. In my opinion, that is not a patient to patient transfer model that would stand up in court. That is why I said that I thought that these two are illegal dispensaries right here in Michigan. Personally, I wouldn't oppose a dispensary that really did patient to patient transfers. Like the Isabella County model, it could be a service that helps a lot of patients on both sides of the counter. I really don't think that model is a huge money maker though. And it will not be very popular with the Mr. Big type entrepreneur.

[The Digital Nomad]

Happy Guy's Reference to "Mr.Big" is exactly why dispensaries can be a threat to our rights. A "Mr.Big" is just a business man who wants to make a lot of money. His business plan will include: buying cheaper, outdoor meds from out of state - and marking it up 500%, he will seek to disrupt or prevent others from opportunities that could effect his business - ie personal grows, other people's rights to P2P or growing. Since he does not buy from michigan growers much, he is not helping growers, since he is not really concerned about quality and compassionate price - he is not helping patients. Mr. Big does not want P2P, he wants everyone to buy from him only.

 

Mr. Big does not seek to help patients with the best quality or compassionate price - he wants to capitalize on the market, he wants to get rich quick.

 

This is real, and this is the threat if we let dispensaries take the front seat. We should push farmer's markets and do everything to preserve the right to grow your own.

 

-DN

[The Digital Nomad]

The next issue about dispensaries is, where would they get their meds.

 

A Michigan Dispensary should only deal in Michigan grown meds, no interstate transport of multikilos from out of state. If you want to see better prices, better quality, and more strains - you have to help michigan growers.

 

A Michigan dispensary should try a different approach than California and other states, why not try a farmer's market model instead of a cash register? Bingo halls are similar setups, they share in part of the take for the day/evening. One of the goals of the MMMP was to promote a grass-roots level economy, a bailout of real people, not corporations. A registered, qualified patient should be able to help another registered, qualified patient. If you grow, or have extra meds, you should be able to seek compensation for helping another with medical use. Unlike the other dispensary states, that require thousands of dollars to setup a medical marijuana enterprise - which most of us cannot afford - Michigan's MMP allows anyone to help another patient and get compensation for it. The more patients you help, the more money you can make in the MMMP. No more Walmarts - more mom and pop stores, no more Meijers - but Husband and Wife teams.

 

I have seen prices come down at our farmer's market and quality rise - because that is how farmer's markets make everyone equal. If your quality is not worth the price, the patient can just step over to the next table. Prices came lower as growers compete with each other, unlike a dispensary who will not be competing with anyone else at the cash register.

 

A dispensary I would respect would be one that buys its meds from Michigan growers. Michigan patients should support michigan growers as that is the future of the whole program!

 

-DN

[Otsego County Caregiver]

I'm not a big fan of the California model for dispensaries. Seems like there is too much profit taking and not enough compassion driving those businesses and that greed has spread to some in our state. However, there are a few collectives/dispensaries that are putting patients first. I think those businesses should be allowed to advertise and be talked about on this forum.

 

I don't see the harm in patients/cgs talking about the few "good guys" that have storefronts. I know of one in particular in Gaylord that is doing it right, there was a recent article about them in the Gaylord Herald Times.

 

Just because there are a lot of people looking to get rich off this law doesn't mean everyone who might make some money from it is in it solely for that reason. I know more patients than I can grow for, and a lot of those folks are grateful for this collective in Gaylord because they're fair and responsible.

 

We need to lift these folks up as the example and to shame the rest of the profiteers into imitating them or going out of business.

[kirsten]

Happy Guy's Reference to "Mr.Big" is exactly why dispensaries can be a threat to our rights. A "Mr.Big" is just a business man who wants to make a lot of money. His business plan will include: buying cheaper, outdoor meds from out of state - and marking it up 500%, he will seek to disrupt or prevent others from opportunities that could effect his business - ie personal grows, other people's rights to P2P or growing. Since he does not buy from michigan growers much, he is not helping growers, since he is not really concerned about quality and compassionate price - he is not helping patients. Mr. Big does not want P2P, he wants everyone to buy from him only.

 

Mr. Big does not seek to help patients with the best quality or compassionate price - he wants to capitalize on the market, he wants to get rich quick.

 

This is real, and this is the threat if we let dispensaries take the front seat. We should push farmer's markets and do everything to preserve the right to grow your own.

 

-DN

 

Is Mr. Big the Big Daddys guy? They just rolled into town and are doing heavy heavy advertising.

[Guest Happy Guy]

Is Mr. Big the Big Daddys guy? They just rolled into town and are doing heavy heavy advertising.

When I wrote 'Mr. Big', I wasn't trying to reference Big Daddy. It just looks that way for no reason. Only the thread starter would know who he/she was pointing to as the soul supplier of the two dispensaries. I think this is going on at just about all the dispensaries in Michigan. That's just my opinion after looking at the economics of the business. They have a lot of overhead and it would make them have to deal in large volume on the supply side to make a go of it.

[kirsten]

When I wrote 'Mr. Big', I wasn't trying to reference Big Daddy. It just looks that way for no reason. Only the thread starter would know who he/she was pointing to as the soul supplier of the two dispensaries. I think this is going on at just about all the dispensaries in Michigan. That's just my opinion after looking at the economics of the business. They have a lot of overhead and it would make them have to deal in large volume on the supply side to make a go of it.

 

Just doesn't seem like a smart business move for any dispensary to tick off patients since we could potentially be customers.

[The Digital Nomad]

I also was just referring to the business model of a dispensary, a Mr. Big was just a name for a greedy businessman. Just like Happy Guy says, the model for a dispensary just means they have to buy low, sell high, and cycle the patients like customers.

 

-DN

[Sinsemillaplease]

Text books do not give understanding of reality. You just stated in an earlier post that the local licenses means something, then you defend it with how the feds have no legal right. So my point stands you are clearly to young to understand.

 

 

quote name='Sinsemillaplease' timestamp='1306733767' post='300849']

That's a hilarious statement. I'm prelaw. Venture to say whatever you want... but I'm right about what I just said about the law. If you'd like me to prove it to you beyond the shadow of any doubt I can do that... but you'll drown in the reading I'm sure.

 

 

 

Cannalytics in Lansing does GC/MS testing for 60/sample.

 

 

You're a funny person. You have no clue of what things I know and understand. You have no clue of my intelligence, maturity or knowledge. The things you say tell more about yourself and your own shortcomings than they say about me. You're projecting.

 

I know exactly what the relationship is between federal, state and local law in the courts (reality) as far as mmj and I know what the relationship would be if the Supreme Court would honestly take up the constitutionality of drug scheduling. I spoke from both perspectives... is it really that hard for you to understand more than one perspective?

 

The fact is there is no support for federal drug regulation in the constitution. That power was wrongfully given to Congress in the 30's based on a faulty interpretation of interstate commerce clause. That faulty interpretation was upheld in 2005 in Gonzalez v Raich... carried over from Raich v Ashcroft. Without a prior even more faulty decision in Wickard v Filburn none of this would be possible. The original intent of the commerce clause did not include handing the federal government power to regulate every item that, grown at home, could lead you to not purchase from the "interstate market"... but that is what Wickard v Filburn added in. Now literally anything that you create and consume in your home could be construed as "affecting" interstate commerce and thus regulated by the federal gov and not the states. This argument, though obviously constitutionally accurate and easily researchable, wouldn't stand a snowball's chance in hell in today's Supreme Court.

 

Still think I'm too young to understand? That statement doesn't even mean anything to me. There is nothing I've ever approached that I could not understand from an intellectual standpoint.

 

Also... I don't know who Mr. Big is and out of respect for the answer to the question I asked with this thread, I will not be stating where either dispensary I was referring to is or their names.

[CedarSpringsCG]

Just because 1 guy is supplying 2 dispensaries doesn't mean he is getting it from out of state. I also don't believe 1 guy is a sole provider. It would be stupid on the dispensaries part to have a sole provider.

 

It would appear that he couldn't be staying legal as far as weight goes, but to say he isn't is an assumption. Maybe he harvests 1 plant a day at 7+ oz, is legal for 15, and disperses it to the dispensaries right away. There is no mention of him getting out of state meds.

 

I know if I had 60 plants, and I had some other caregiver feeding me rooted, post veg clones, I could produce well enough to provide 2 dispensaries everything they need, somewhere in the tune of 10 lbs a month at least, of top quality, frosty meds. And it says nothing about this guy getting out of state meds.

 

Now, to stretch it into a P2p, if the proprietor of the establishment is a patient and CG for 5 people he can have 15 oz on hand for himself. Then he has a few supplier PT/CG's who make drop offs a couple times a week. The PT/CG's transfer to a patient (who is the owner), who then holds it until a patient comes in who wants some meds, and then they do a transfer to the end user patient. Right there, everything done in a p2p, and that's how many dispensaries work in MI.

 

Others use a locker system, where you pay for a locker, and put your meds in. The problem with that is your the PT, and your not there when the sale happens. So technically it has to transfer to someone else who does the sale.

 

Anyway, you assume what they are talking about is illegal, however there are many scenarios where it is legal. But since you don't like dispensaries you assume that they are doing illegal activity without full knowledge of the facts. Open you mind. Open your eyes. If you assume the best in people instead of the worst I feel you will be a much happier person.

[Guest Happy Guy]

Just because 1 guy is supplying 2 dispensaries doesn't mean he is getting it from out of state. I also don't believe 1 guy is a sole provider. It would be stupid on the dispensaries part to have a sole provider.

 

It would appear that he couldn't be staying legal as far as weight goes, but to say he isn't is an assumption. Maybe he harvests 1 plant a day at 7+ oz, is legal for 15, and disperses it to the dispensaries right away. There is no mention of him getting out of state meds.

 

I know if I had 60 plants, and I had some other caregiver feeding me rooted, post veg clones, I could produce well enough to provide 2 dispensaries everything they need, somewhere in the tune of 10 lbs a month at least, of top quality, frosty meds. And it says nothing about this guy getting out of state meds.

 

Now, to stretch it into a P2p, if the proprietor of the establishment is a patient and CG for 5 people he can have 15 oz on hand for himself. Then he has a few supplier PT/CG's who make drop offs a couple times a week. The PT/CG's transfer to a patient (who is the owner), who then holds it until a patient comes in who wants some meds, and then they do a transfer to the end user patient. Right there, everything done in a p2p, and that's how many dispensaries work in MI.

 

Others use a locker system, where you pay for a locker, and put your meds in. The problem with that is your the PT, and your not there when the sale happens. So technically it has to transfer to someone else who does the sale.

 

Anyway, you assume what they are talking about is illegal, however there are many scenarios where it is legal. But since you don't like dispensaries you assume that they are doing illegal activity without full knowledge of the facts. Open you mind. Open your eyes. If you assume the best in people instead of the worst I feel you will be a much happier person.

Yeah ok.

I opened my eyes... and read an email from the owner of the largest dispensary chain in Michigan. He buys in bulk. He has to buy at least 20 pounds a week for just one of his outlets at the time he said it. I didn't assume anything other than the owner wasn't lying... that time. He does tell law enforcement it is all done by small patient transfers.

[nthlghts]

Still think I'm too young to understand?

 

 

Yes I do!

[CedarSpringsCG]

Yeah ok.

I opened my eyes... and read an email from the owner of the largest dispensary chain in Michigan. He buys in bulk. He has to buy at least 20 pounds a week for just one of his outlets at the time he said it. I didn't assume anything other than the owner wasn't lying... that time. He does tell law enforcement it is all done by small patient transfers.

And that guy should be arrested if they can prove it. Why aren't you sharing this email so that everyone on this site knows not to go to his stores?

 

However the dispensaries I go to I personally know they deal with small p2p transfers, 3-4 oz at a time buys, and they never have more than what the CG on staff can carry. I have seen them turn away sellers because they didn't have the carry capacity at the time.

 

So why demonize all of them over 1 criminal. That's the same as saying all drivers speed just because one jerk drives 100 miles an hour all the time.

 

You are saying these 2 other dispensaries mentioned here do the same thing, however once again you are just assuming without any proof. You don't even know which dispensaries they are. And you can't say that they aren't michigan meds. They very well could be right from Mi.

 

Just because your guy from the largest chain in Michigan is ripping people off, you expect the same from everyone.

 

Competition and legal issues will drive those people out.

 

If this is really all about the patients, why do you want to limit the patients options? Why not spread the information so that patients aren't getting ripped off by going to a dispensary that is bad? Why not give the patients the ability to acquire meds if their CG suddenly moves, dies, whatever? Why stop a patient from uninterrupted supply of meds because there was a problem with a grow?

 

Like I said over and over, time will take care of the dispensaries that are problems or operating illegally. We are not the police, and it isn't up to us to regulate them. But I am pro-patient on this one, as long as they don't touch the grow your own and pt/cg system we have, I would love to see them add dispensary laws. It opens up more options, can provide jobs, taxes (as in income tax), and safety.

[Sinsemillaplease]

Yes I do!

 

Thanks for letting me know. I won't argue with you anymore now that I know I'm not dealing with a logically minded person but instead someone who lavishes in emotional and irrational thoughts, feelings and biases.

 

People like you are why you don't see many young, intelligent and driven people like me among the older activist crowd. I don't appreciate being belittled because of my birth day and I wouldn't expect anybody would. You claim I don't understand yet have not uttered a single refutation of any of my factual statements or actually demonstrated that you even know anything about the subject. All you've done is call me out for my age. For that you should feel ashamed. I feel sorry for you.

[Scooter]

To put it simply, dispensaries are not covered by the law in any way, and ALL of them are going to be taken down by the feds through RICO cases. Name one dispensary that started in '09 and is still open here in Michigan. Half of the ones started in '10 are being shut down as we speak. It's really that simple, and besides, who wants to pay the exorbitant prices they charge?? They're simply taking advantage of sick people. If anyone has to charge that much money to make a profit, then they are in the wrong business.

 

I started the Gold Coast Caregivers Association co-op in '09 and we have been able to supply top quality medicine at service costs far far less than ANY dispensary. We supply terminal patients with free medicine and even pay for funeral expenses, tombstones, medical procedures, food, home taxes, day care, ANYTHING they need that we can supply. All of this while STILL being able to make a living at it. Name one dispensary here that does ANY of that.

 

I started all of this in '09 with 12 plants and a dream, and it has grown to a co-op of a dozen caregivers working hand in hand with 60 registered patients who pay nothing for their medicine. We pay taxes, social security, and hire at least 150 seasonal workers every fall for more than four times minimum wage.

 

We would be happy to help patients and caregivers in other areas of Michigan to begin doing the same thing, free of charge. We operate 100% within the boundaries of the law, and are known by law enforcement in 4 counties ( all of whom are very happy to receive our taxes ). It can be done, and has been.

 

This is the type of thing that can show the government that we can utilize the law in a manner which is conducive to the economy without causing legal issue.

[Christopia]

I'd like to check out it out. Thanks, Bb

 

Same here

[nthlghts]

This is something that I would like to see as well.

 

 

 

To put it simply, dispensaries are not covered by the law in any way, and ALL of them are going to be taken down by the feds through RICO cases. Name one dispensary that started in '09 and is still open here in Michigan. Half of the ones started in '10 are being shut down as we speak. It's really that simple, and besides, who wants to pay the exorbitant prices they charge?? They're simply taking advantage of sick people. If anyone has to charge that much money to make a profit, then they are in the wrong business.

 

I started the Gold Coast Caregivers Association co-op in '09 and we have been able to supply top quality medicine at service costs far far less than ANY dispensary. We supply terminal patients with free medicine and even pay for funeral expenses, tombstones, medical procedures, food, home taxes, day care, ANYTHING they need that we can supply. All of this while STILL being able to make a living at it. Name one dispensary here that does ANY of that.

 

I started all of this in '09 with 12 plants and a dream, and it has grown to a co-op of a dozen caregivers working hand in hand with 60 registered patients who pay nothing for their medicine. We pay taxes, social security, and hire at least 150 seasonal workers every fall for more than four times minimum wage.

 

We would be happy to help patients and caregivers in other areas of Michigan to begin doing the same thing, free of charge. We operate 100% within the boundaries of the law, and are known by law enforcement in 4 counties ( all of whom are very happy to receive our taxes ). It can be done, and has been.

 

This is the type of thing that can show the government that we can utilize the law in a manner which is conducive to the economy without causing legal issue.

[Scooter]

The hardest thing is to be up front with local LEO, as their interpretation of the law varies from county to county, and many are not happy about it. I was lucky(?) enough to be one of the first MM cases as I was busted at about 1:00 A.M. November 4, 2008. THAT'S IRONY lol! They already knew I was politically active, and it was a rat that caused my issues ( a relative, of all things. ). I fought under the Affirmative Defense, and luckily I already had a legal background and knew my way around the courtroom. I was able to turn 11 possible felony charges into one misdemeanor possession. Between me and my lawyer we were able to educate my county courts in a positive manner regarding the MM statute, and this interpretation and its ramifications trickled to the adjoining counties. We still ended up in a few battles with some old Nixon/Reagan era Battle Axe judges in our county and a few adjoining ones, but in the end I saw many cases that would have ended in ruined lives and families turned into minor offenses or no offenses and merely fines and court costs ( the almighty dollar still rules the courts ).

 

But now we have 4 fairly large facilities that exceed the laws requirements by a long shot ( more for the possibility of theft than LEO in all honesty ) and have been inspected by local LEO and found to be in accordance with the law on all of them. We always tell prospective co-op starters to feel out your local courts first. One thing we did do was follow our interpretation of the law, build the facilities, and THEN let LEO see them, showing them the highlights of the law which showed our facilities legality ( before the plants were in, of course! ). We've found it's better to interpret the sections of the law and show them this instead of vice-versa, they always play word games. It's scary, but getting past that first hump is the hardest part.

 

It can be done. If a few backwater hicks with some drive, hard work, and education can start it and do it, so can you! Anyone with questions can contact me via PM, and if you're truly serious I'll start an email correspondence. We are currently creating a website for our co-op, and we are also working with my attorney and his associates to incorporate our organization into an NFP if it is possible. We have been operating under Home Health Care work for tax purposes, and have had no issues with the IRS thus far, but we definitely want to be prepared. The IRS, now THEY are some scary peeps!

[Guest Happy Guy]

The hardest thing is to be up front with local LEO, as their interpretation of the law varies from county to county, and many are not happy about it. I was lucky(?) enough to be one of the first MM cases as I was busted at about 1:00 A.M. November 4, 2008. THAT'S IRONY lol! They already knew I was politically active, and it was a rat that caused my issues ( a relative, of all things. ). I fought under the Affirmative Defense, and luckily I already had a legal background and knew my way around the courtroom. I was able to turn 11 possible felony charges into one misdemeanor possession. Between me and my lawyer we were able to educate my county courts in a positive manner regarding the MM statute, and this interpretation and its ramifications trickled to the adjoining counties. We still ended up in a few battles with some old Nixon/Reagan era Battle Axe judges in our county and a few adjoining ones, but in the end I saw many cases that would have ended in ruined lives and families turned into minor offenses or no offenses and merely fines and court costs ( the almighty dollar still rules the courts ).

 

But now we have 4 fairly large facilities that exceed the laws requirements by a long shot ( more for the possibility of theft than LEO in all honesty ) and have been inspected by local LEO and found to be in accordance with the law on all of them. We always tell prospective co-op starters to feel out your local courts first. One thing we did do was follow our interpretation of the law, build the facilities, and THEN let LEO see them, showing them the highlights of the law which showed our facilities legality ( before the plants were in, of course! ). We've found it's better to interpret the sections of the law and show them this instead of vice-versa, they always play word games. It's scary, but getting past that first hump is the hardest part.

 

It can be done. If a few backwater hicks with some drive, hard work, and education can start it and do it, so can you!

You can easily over extend yourself to the point that the feds don't like it. IMO, if you start making these 'facilities' that house more than 100 hundred plants you will get taken down by the feds. Go for it but don't say you didn't know what to expect.

Here's the whole story in a nut shell;

They come to your grow and take down all your plants because you were over 100. They don't press charges and they make a public statement something like "Scooter had a lot of plants". There is already precedent and a warning here in Michigan. I'm not guessing. Keep it under 100 in each location or you will be an example.

[Scooter]

EXACTLY! I have 48 at each location, and all are separate addresses. Security is top notch, and each plant is tagged with the patients name and number. And because the large facilities are greenhouses, we only grow 8 plants per patient because of their size. As I stated, I know the Michigan law inside and out, and I take the Federal laws into consideration as well. Everyone should; this is why the dispensaries are being taken down every day.

[Guest Happy Guy]

EXACTLY! I have 48 at each location, and all are separate addresses. Security is top notch, and each plant is tagged with the patients name and number. And because the large facilities are greenhouses, we only grow 8 plants per patient because of their size. As I stated, I know the Michigan law inside and out, and I take the Federal laws into consideration as well. Everyone should; this is why the dispensaries are being taken down every day.

Doesn't surprise me at all. You have been right on it from the beginning. Just wanted to make sure everyone was on the same page. We can do this smartly and make it work like a fine watch.

[TajMahal]

Good Day Scooter!

 

 

Thanks for what you do.