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Prosecutor From Livingston County-Morse: I'm Not Against Medical Pot


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Prosecutor From Livingston County-Morse: I'm not against medical pot

 

 

 

 

 

Komorn Says:

 

Their big beef is that (Yager) and another person, who had under their plant count in a locked, enclosed facility, combined them," Komorn said in an earlier interview. "(Prosecutors) say they can't combine them. Show me where that's in the law."

 

 

 

Morse says:

 

"The medical marijuana law carves out an exception," Morse explained. "What that means is whatever the medical marijuana (law) specifically provides for, you can do. If it doesn't address the issue, it's illegal."

 

The law states caregivers can grow up to 12 plants per patient for a maximum of five patients, and have a maximum of 2.5 ounces of marijuana on hand for each patient. The marijuana must be stored in a locked facility.

 

That latter requirement, Morse argued, means no two caregivers can have access to each other's marijuana that is used for medicinal purposes.

 

"You are the caregiver and the only one who can go in and care for those things," he said. "Any other circumstances is not permitted. You run the risk of violating, if you are a caregiver and have more plants than you're supposed to have."

 

 

Komorn Says: “ Show me where that's in the law."

 

 

 

 

The basic concepts of Due Process contemplate Notice of what you can not do.

 

 

Again Komorn says: “ Show me where that's in the law."

 

 

 

http://www.livingsto...EWS01/106150319

 

 

 

 

http://www.livingstondaily.com/comments/article/20110615/NEWS01/106150319/Morse-m-not-against-medical-pot

 

 

 

 

 

Written by

 

Lisa Roos

 

 

Livingston County's top prosecutor believes there are people who "have a legitimate use" for medical marijuana, and he said he is not targeting those people.

 

Rather, Prosecutor David Morse said, his office is interested in the people abusing Michigan's Medical Marihuana Act.

 

"I think there are some people with legitimate needs," the prosecutor said. "The ones ... brought to our attention are the ones who are not following the rules clearly laid out in the statute.

 

"It's like any law — there will be people who abuse it," he added.

 

Morse said he is not out to eradicate medical marijuana from the county as alleged by Brighton Township resident Steve Yager, 33, who claims Morse's office is inappropriately charging people, like him, who are following the state's medical marijuana law.

 

Yager, who appears in District Court today for a preliminary exam, and a co-defendant were charged with delivering or manufacturing marijuana after officers with the Livingston and Washtenaw Narcotics Enforcement Team seized from his home nearly 80 marijuana plants.

 

Yager said the marijuana belonged to him and the co-defendant who were providing "medicine" for eight registered medical marijuana patients and that it was stored in his locked basement.

 

Yager's attorney, Michael Komorn, said licensed caregivers and licensed users are not subject to state arrest or prosecution if they follow the Michigan Medical Marihuana Act's guidelines. He said Yager and the co-defendant followed the law.

 

"Their big beef is that (Yager) and another person, who had under their plant count in a locked, enclosed facility, combined them," Komorn said in an earlier interview. "(Prosecutors) say they can't combine them. Show me where that's in the law."

 

Morse declined to discuss Yager's case due to the pending prosecution.

 

However, in discussing the state law, Morse noted that, "If what you're doing isn't spelled out in the law — it's against the law."

 

Under state and federal law, the use, possession, manufacture and distribution of marijuana is illegal. The Michigan Medical Marihuana Act did not change that.

 

"The medical marijuana law carves out an exception," Morse explained. "What that means is whatever the medical marijuana (law) specifically provides for, you can do. If it doesn't address the issue, it's illegal."

 

The law states caregivers can grow up to 12 plants per patient for a maximum of five patients, and have a maximum of 2.5 ounces of marijuana on hand for each patient. The marijuana must be stored in a locked facility.

 

That latter requirement, Morse argued, means no two caregivers can have access to each other's marijuana that is used for medicinal purposes.

 

"You are the caregiver and the only one who can go in and care for those things," he said. "Any other circumstances is not permitted. You run the risk of violating, if you are a caregiver and have more plants than you're supposed to have."

 

Contact Daily Press & Argus reporter Lisa Roose-Church at (517) 552-2846 or at lrchurch@gannett.com.

 

 

 

Posted By:

 

Michael Komorn

 

18006563557

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He is taking the AG hard line about legal if spelled out, illegal if not. I think the COA case with McQueen will shed some light on this. The justices didn't seem to buy that argument- they were very interested in the concept of a patient and another person transferring (legal for the patient/illegal for the other person) and seemed troubled by that, but we will see. Even if there were two caregivers in one location, so long as the total plant count was under 99 and there was no co-mingling or they were somehow identified as being separate crops, should be ok.

 

Things that would also help would be documentation of the med use of the 8 patients to show the amount grown was reasonable and not a commercial grow. Again, record keeping is helpful.

 

Dr. Bob

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"You are the caregiver and the only one who can go in and care for those things," he said. "Any other circumstances is not permitted.

 

not to split hairs but in turn doesn't this mean that it would be illegal for any LEO to enter a grow room and couldn't they face criminal charges in doing so? i mean after all.... "the medical marijuana (law) specifically provides for, you can do. If it doesn't address the issue, it's illegal." right?

 

Hi Q-Tipper !!!

 

Heh man....I like your thinking !

 

dr. Jinx

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Leo can come with a warrant and go in any grow room. And the Tuesday argument is just silly. If you can do something, unless there is an exception, clearly you can do it any day. You can purchase alcohol if you are old enough, that means every day, unless the law specifies you can't on certain days. This type of irrational hairsplitting does not keep people safe. Secured = Locked up, 12 plants per patient means 12 plants of any stage or sex, 2.5 oz usable means 2.5 oz. If you are making oil with it (stems, leaves, whatever) it is usable and counts. If you aren't making oil, and don't want it counted, sprinkle it with bleach so it can't be used and dispose of it.

 

Let's use a little common sense folks. Stop re-arguing the decisions of courts and learn what they want, then do it. Every 'test case' risks the law. If you are going to put one forward, make it worth losing the entire MMMA because of what some appeals or federal judge says about 'federal supremacy' or whatever. Stop making foolish inferences about what the law does or does not say about something, see what the courts say it says and decide if it is a fight worth fighting. This whole line of reasoning on locks is a prime example of the type of foolishness that gets people put in jail.

 

Dr. Bob

 

PS- How many people in here really think that the issue of locks not being required on grow rooms is an issue worth risking the entire Michigan Medical Marijuana Act over? My bet is that most in here view it as NOT an issue we'll risk the Act over. If so, let's drop it.

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First, allowing 2 CG's to co-mingle plants gives them cost sharing, reducing costs, and in the end hopefully reducing cost to the patient. The LAW says your grow room must be secure and only allow access by "A" caregiver or "A" patient. This follows the intent of the law at minimum.

 

Also the 99 plant rule is to stay below federal radar, no where in MI does it say you can't exceed 99 plants, you just hit the federal minimum sentence of 5 years if you exceed it.

 

"The medical marijuana law carves out an exception," Morse explained. "What that means is whatever the medical marijuana (law) specifically provides for, you can do. If it doesn't address the issue, it's illegal."

 

Without supply, then there are laws being broken. If I lose all my plants, say I forget to water them for a month. How can I as a CG get new plants? As a patient, how can I get meds if I have no CG and no plants? P2P transfer or buying off the street. A law cannot compel someone to break the law can it? Wouldn't the whole transaction be legal because of the buyer being protected? If the seller is protected because of the buyer being protected, which is directly in the law, then P2P,P2CG,CG2CG and CG2P are all protected because in each case there is someone who is protected causing a blanket effect.

 

On the LEO entering. Dr Bob, while I agree with you that any officer with a warrant can enter anywhere the warrant says he can, does this not make inspections illegal? There is no warrant in a city/county/township inspection. So therefore it would be illegal for them to inspect the grow room.

 

A LEO entering without a valid warrant would also be illegal. As the law states, presumption of innocence must taken when presented with a MMJ card, so even if they suspect there are 200 plants in a house, if presented with a card, the Judge and LEO have to assume it is not such, and therefore wouldn't issue a warrant, and the LEO can't use anything they find if they walk in without a warrant and find more.

 

Cedar

 

P.S. - As far as locks go, I would say not worth the fight. I also think LEO needs to back off of it, I mean if no one ever enters my house, and my house is locked, isn't that secure? Can't I claim my whole house is a grow facility if no one else enters? The main thing is the plants are not accessible to Joe Smith walking down the street that catches a wiff of your grow.

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Leo can come with a warrant and go in any grow room. And the Tuesday argument is just silly. If you can do something, unless there is an exception, clearly you can do it any day. You can purchase alcohol if you are old enough, that means every day, unless the law specifies you can't on certain days. This type of irrational hairsplitting does not keep people safe. Secured = Locked up, 12 plants per patient means 12 plants of any stage or sex, 2.5 oz usable means 2.5 oz. If you are making oil with it (stems, leaves, whatever) it is usable and counts. If you aren't making oil, and don't want it counted, sprinkle it with bleach so it can't be used and dispose of it.

 

Let's use a little common sense folks. Stop re-arguing the decisions of courts and learn what they want, then do it. Every 'test case' risks the law. If you are going to put one forward, make it worth losing the entire MMMA because of what some appeals or federal judge says about 'federal supremacy' or whatever. Stop making foolish inferences about what the law does or does not say about something, see what the courts say it says and decide if it is a fight worth fighting. This whole line of reasoning on locks is a prime example of the type of foolishness that gets people put in jail.

 

Dr. Bob

 

PS- How many people in here really think that the issue of locks not being required on grow rooms is an issue worth risking the entire Michigan Medical Marijuana Act over? My bet is that most in here view it as NOT an issue we'll risk the Act over. If so, let's drop it.

 

:goodjob::goodjob::goodjob:

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thank you for the con descending reply, tell me doc... whats your stake in all of this other then losing a pocket full of cash every week from recs and recerts? do you face losing all of your possessions for what you do? do you risk your door being kicked in at 4am and being shot? kind of like someone telling people how to raise their children when they have none isn't it? maybe you should get your card and grow some plants then tell us how you really feel! sorry but your reply pisses me off! why do you feel the need to sound so belittling towards the people writing your paycheck?

 

Heh, Q-tip,

 

I think you are being a little out of line. Dr.Bob is right...why risk ANY court battle over small issues...I would not call that "condescending"...I would call that "rational and reasonable ".

 

And to sully your argument with the suggestion that his "dog in this fight" is strictly financial is also out of line...As a pain specialist he can go anywhere in the State and do very well prescribing Narcotic Analgesics up to the Ying Yang! Yet he chooses to help MMJ patients with a UNIQUE and EFFECTIVE and COSTSAVING procedure which is much more ROBUST than the "mill" certifications which are out there.

 

Be honest, Q-tip, have you medicated a little too heavily this AM ?

 

Dr. Jinx

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If Dr. Bob was a caregiver, here's how he would do it.

 

1. Preparation for 5 patients. A off site grow area (pole barn) secured with a locked gate, a locked front door, and a locked grow area with an alarm system. Construction permits obtained, fire/electrical inspections done. Office area has a safe, and 5 secured boxes similar to safety deposit boxes. Scales, containers, locked drying room.

2. 5 well qualified patients willing to come to grow site to retreive medication.

3. Take 60 plants, divided by the number of months in the grow cycle (if several strains are needed, totals divided by grow cycles). Plant enough to have 2.5 to 5 oz usable product to start.

4. At end of first grow cycle, place 2.5 oz in each 'safety deposit box' for each patient. Place up to 2.5 oz per patient in well labled jars in the main safe. This gives a capacity of up to 25 oz from first grow.

5. As the patient takes meds out initial, it is not replaced, as the patient has 2.5 oz between home and the safety deposit box. When they come back, replenish the box to total 2.5 oz and let them take what they need.

6. The initial 2.5 oz is the patient's 'store' and they are charged to keep it fully stocked. Price is based on documented cost per gram to grow, plus the labor to grow it, plus the cost of storage and service.

 

Benifits of this system

The amounts are never over, there is storage capacity to assure a steady supply of medication, direct caregiver to designated patient transfer, secured storage and grow facility. Further defense can be offered - 5 patients are using x# oz per month, plants produce x# oz per plant, number of plants in ground are appropriate to need of patients and are in fact less than the total number of plants allowed (12 per patient). Trimmings, poor quality buds, etc are either counted at their oz weight and converted to oil or destroyed and marked with bleach to confirmed destruction (damaged material will be whitened).

I am not looking for criticisms of growing cycles or other moot points. That is where planning and grow skill comes into play. I am simply discussing the system, which to my knowledge allows no room for LEO and the courts to attack.

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Q-Tipper, you are out of line. PB is a warrior in this fight, but this isn't the fight we need to make. I have emphasized both points several times.

 

If you feel belittled, please accept my apology, but don't question my motives. I am facing arrest myself this week in Tawas, not because I am growing or medicating, but because I think it is right for you and everyone in here to make that choice yourself. As for my dog in the fight, I am a trained internist, and baby boomers are reaching internal medicine age every day- diabetes, high blood pressure, heart disease are rampant. I could simply join my colleagues and deal with those issues rather than fight this fight. I am here by choice.

 

As a side note, doing straight IM, I made more money doing echos, colonoscopies, and all the procedures I am capable of doing than I ever made from MMJ. I like that kind of work, and my name was not well know by everyone from the county sheriff to the AG. I am here, signing recommendations, because 28,000 of 30,000 Michigan doctors refuse to, and I feel it is a worthy cause. If you want to question my motives, go right ahead. My actions speak for themselves.

 

Dr. Bob

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Dr Bob, you have some interesting ideas there. There is a lot of work in the exacting details, but I like where that is going.

 

Thanks, expand that to a secondary set of patients using the original patients as caregivers too, it really gets interesting.

 

Dr. Bob

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Heh, Q-tip,

 

I think you are being a little out of line. Dr.Bob is right...why risk ANY court battle over small issues...I would not call that "condescending"...I would call that "rational and reasonable ".

 

And to sully your argument with the suggestion that his "dog in this fight" is strictly financial is also out of line...As a pain specialist he can go anywhere in the State and do very well prescribing Narcotic Analgesics up to the Ying Yang! Yet he chooses to help MMJ patients with a UNIQUE and EFFECTIVE and COSTSAVING procedure which is much more ROBUST than the "mill" certifications which are out there.

 

Be honest, Q-tip, have you medicated a little too heavily this AM ?

 

Dr. Jinx

 

I have to agree with the Dr. Jinx. Please Q-Tip, there's no reason to attack Dr. Bob.

 

So much gets lost by communicating over the web versus face to face. Sometimes subtle things can be missed or seen when they are not meant by the sender. Someone's own frame of mind can often influence how they view a message too. Let's not be so hasty to criticize. Just my two cents...

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Thanks, expand that to a secondary set of patients using the original patients as caregivers too, it really gets interesting.

 

Dr. Bob

It would get real interesting if those PT's could use your pole barn to grow for their PT's... it would be a workable pyramid scheme, as you charge for storage, locker space, individual safes for each CG and grow area. However it would be very hard to stay under the 99 plant count limit imposed by the Feds...

 

IMPORTANT: Qtipper, Dr Bob, and everyone else. We are all on the same team. PB is just as guilty as anyone else of taking things out of context or blowing up for no reason and flaming someone for no reason. Take a step back, relax a little, everyone is sorry for upsetting each other. Please NO ONE get personal or start attacking motives of others here.

 

Qtipper, you are an asset to the community when you are constructive. Dr Bob is awesome, he chooses to be here and doesnt' have to. What if all dr's in the state refused to give certs? PB, your heart is always in the right place, even though I don't always agree with you or your methods.

 

We are all in this together. We can disagree without getting personal or attacking one another.

 

Cedar

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It would get real interesting if those PT's could use your pole barn to grow for their PT's... it would be a workable pyramid scheme, as you charge for storage, locker space, individual safes for each CG and grow area. However it would be very hard to stay under the 99 plant count limit imposed by the Feds...

 

IMPORTANT: Qtipper, Dr Bob, and everyone else. We are all on the same team. PB is just as guilty as anyone else of taking things out of context or blowing up for no reason and flaming someone for no reason. Take a step back, relax a little, everyone is sorry for upsetting each other. Please NO ONE get personal or start attacking motives of others here.

 

Qtipper, you are an asset to the community when you are constructive. Dr Bob is awesome, he chooses to be here and doesnt' have to. What if all dr's in the state refused to give certs? PB, your heart is always in the right place, even though I don't always agree with you or your methods.

 

We are all in this together. We can disagree without getting personal or attacking one another.

 

 

Cedar

 

Agreed, my rant is over. And yes, I've always viewed Q as an asset. I disagree with folks like peanutbutter and mayor all the time, and they both know I'd be there to bail them out if needed. That is what this community is based on.

 

You have to be careful. I outlined an amway model the other day, professional caregiver, 5 original patients, 25 secondary patients using the 5 as caregivers (same beni's as outlined but each can also grow to support their 'branch'- so increased capacity). Expanding this to the full extent, you could easily get 1000's of patients, but limit it to the original 5 and their 25 patients. No charges of criminal conspiracy. If one branch gets too big to manage, spin it off and give it a separate pole barn and let them get 5 patients and 25 subpatients.

 

As far as multiple caregivers, don't care about that as long as the TOTAL plant count is less than 99 and each cg have a secured room (yes with a LOCK on it...lol).

 

Dr. Bob

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i apologize doc, i am having a bad day and your post rubbed me the wrong way and for that i sincerely apologize. health issues along with all of the politics arnt the best of medications when combined. i will edit my post but its been quoted and i cant fix that sorry.

 

You are an asset to this board and the movement and a friend to me. We are fine.

 

Bob

 

PS, you may be embarrassed, but your actions and words are understandable due to your suffering. Mine came from a bruised ego and a tinkle poor attitude today. As a caring physician and fellow human being I shouldn't have open fire with a broadside at you like that. We both learned a lesson in humility today and please accept my apology my friend. I am here to be an asset and helpful to all, I let the board down with that today. This comes from me, no one said anything other than coming to my defense publically.

 

Bob

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Heh, Q-tip,

 

I think you are being a little out of line. Dr.Bob is right...why risk ANY court battle over small issues...I would not call that "condescending"...I would call that "rational and reasonable ".

 

And to sully your argument with the suggestion that his "dog in this fight" is strictly financial is also out of line...As a pain specialist he can go anywhere in the State and do very well prescribing Narcotic Analgesics up to the Ying Yang! Yet he chooses to help MMJ patients with a UNIQUE and EFFECTIVE and COSTSAVING procedure which is much more ROBUST than the "mill" certifications which are out there.

 

Be honest, Q-tip, have you medicated a little too heavily this AM ?

 

Dr. Jinx

 

Heh, Q-Tip,

 

We all love you man....we understand !!

 

You are a critical contributor and we want you to continue !

 

We all have bad days !

 

Some of us are lucky enough to have GOOD days !!!

 

So let's just move on and get into the real battle !!

 

Sounds like BlueBerry has some good stuff up his sleeve !

 

Dr. Jinx

 

[PS: Anytime I get out of line, feel free to drop your "F-Bomb" on me !!]

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How come everyone is not charged with POSSESSION with intent because they were renting out a storage space at the storage place where someone was MAKING METH and raided..do all 130 other people get charged with MANUFACTURING or the owner of the storage area?????????????????

no they do not!... unless involved

 

so with same reasoning state rules could safeguard a future operation-BECAUSE THERE IS NO INTENT TO BREAK ANY LAWS WITHIN THE MMMA GUIDLINES-not concerned with federal laws unless the is precedence saying otherwise

 

 

CO-OP

Because there needs to be grow ops co-mingled(save on cost of resources and better security) if this is going to work-buy a farm, build separate greenhouse/growspace that everyone can rent... all separated from eachothers grows by design-i am a contractor by trade and a designer builder by heart-grower too if given the chance

anywho this is feasible-is on a large scale but has a ease of use for all involved-plus free sun for 6 months of the year

how to get the FEDs to say ok ??????????????????

 

because in a facility like this there could be thousands of plants being grown on one piece of property yet all grow rooms are separate......

build it and they will come... just ideas...ideas

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"The marijuana must be stored in a locked facility."

 

 

Maybe someone can help me with this . I did not understand the law to say anything but the plants being grown must be in a locked and enclosed area . I leave my meds for the day out as it is hard to walk and get up and down at times . I do keep everything locked up and only set out one day at a time next to my chair . But I never worry about the 3-5 grams I set out daily . Should I be worried ? There is no requirement with my FDA meds that I set up in daily compartments for two weeks in advance ? I assumed the same with my MM . I do have a lock box for vehicle travel as I have no trunk unless I am on my motorcycle then I figure they know I am not using while driving with a full face helmet . It is insane one disagreement and charge and you can't raise a medical defense and trip multiple felonies . Not hijacking the thread but anyone have a footnoted opinion using the wording of the act to where I can't conduct myself this way . I guess chronic pain makes me sloppy in habbits . Law Enforcement should understand disabillities effect behaviors but I guess words in law do not .

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"The marijuana must be stored in a locked facility."

 

 

Maybe someone can help me with this . I did not understand the law to say anything but the plants being grown must be in a locked and enclosed area . I leave my meds for the day out as it is hard to walk and get up and down at times . I do keep everything locked up and only set out one day at a time next to my chair . But I never worry about the 3-5 grams I set out daily . Should I be worried ? There is no requirement with my FDA meds that I set up in daily compartments for two weeks in advance ? I assumed the same with my MM . I do have a lock box for vehicle travel as I have no trunk unless I am on my motorcycle then I figure they know I am not using while driving with a full face helmet . It is insane one disagreement and charge and you can't raise a medical defense and trip multiple felonies . Not hijacking the thread but anyone have a footnoted opinion using the wording of the act to where I can't conduct myself this way . I guess chronic pain makes me sloppy in habbits . Law Enforcement should understand disabillities effect behaviors but I guess words in law do not .

The law does not say anything about keeping meds locked up. The reason we are discussing keeping them locked up is that if you left them out where many people had access, in large quantities, you could get in trouble for negligence. Dr Bob is also using this as a way to show a divide between patients, to prove x amount is for patient x and y amount is for patient y, and be able to prove it is that way.

 

I keep my meds mostly secured, but not under lock and key. I might eventually once I pay off my grow room get a air tight safe (humidor) to keep them in, but for now, I rest assured that I do not have to keep them locked. You just have to be responsible with them.

 

Cedar

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