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Legal Business Model For Mmj?


Dr. Bob
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I'd like to present a possible business model for those interested in serving the MMJ community without being growers or patients- the concept of a legal grow space for rent.

 

The model is designed specifically to keep everything legal and provide a needed service for those that cannot or will not grow on their own property.

 

Basic concept is this- A pole barn with facilities for say 3 caregivers. Provided with the facility are the following services:

 

1. Grow rooms for each caregiver with lights and choice of hydroponics or dirt growing systems. Hydroponics are serviced by a designated tank for the room.

 

2. Common bloom room available in appropriate blocks of time (2-4 weeks).

 

3. Trim room with automated trimmers, tables, cloning facility, nutrient locker, etc. Each caregiver has a locker that can be used to store nutrients and other consumables, other things such as lights etc are replaced as needed by landlord.

 

4. Locked storage 'safety deposit box' for caregiver and 5 'safety deposit boxes' per caregiver for their patients.

 

5. Office room for record keeping, inspections of electrical bills, etc.

 

Rent based on room and number of plants

 

Example-

 

facility designed for 3 caregivers, each pays rent on their rooms and may plant up to say 25 plants included in rent.

 

Rent includes use of all facilities, caregivers pay a portion of electric/utilities based on % of plants in facility under their care.

 

Additional slots for plants up to the facility capacity of 99 plants are available for extra cost.

 

While each caregiver is free to plant their entire maximum of plants, up to 72 each, once the facility total of 99 is reached, each addition plant slot must be purchased and say a bond of say $25k per plant must be paid. Thus each caregiver can plant as many as they are allowed, so they aren't restricted, but the extra risk and legal expense of exceeding the address limit must be covered and the risk is discouraged by a large fee.

 

If one caregiver only needs 20 slots, they are free to make arrangements with one of the others to 'sell' their excess slots to them. Thus one could have 30 slots while the other has 20. The base allocation was 25 per caregiver.

 

Dr. Bob

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One other nice service for the grow rooms, 24 video and security/alarm, fenced facility. Plants can be counted remotely, keys can be restricted (landlord has keys to gate, caregivers to grow rooms, etc).

 

Prior to being put into service, fire/electrical inspections could be done, the prosecutor could sign off (no reason not to, everything is strictly to code and the MMMA) so as long as things go under the plan it is fully defensible legally.

 

These facilities are ideal for no zoning or zoned to allow areas throughout the state.

 

Dr. Bob

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Dr. Bob, I think you may be a day late on this one. What you have describe is a collective.

 

Sorry, thought a collective was basically a club that farmed. This is how to rent a grow space to those that wish to grow for those of us that do not grow or don't wish to be part of the actual production of medication. I think if there were grow facilities like this across the state and available for rental, firmly based in the agreed upon portions of the Act, it would make life easier for a lot of people.

 

I've never seen a facility like this advertised and know of none that are available anywhere.

 

Dr. Bob

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hey Dr. bob - I enjoy and respect your writing, and I know you'll take my response equally.

 

I also entertained this idea, and so have several other people I met with. A club or a collective has been worded in some city memoriams and ordinances to mean - a club or organization which the sole purpose is for members to distribute marijuana. Growing would be a part of what they consider distribution. So, by city memoriam or ordinance prohibiting "Any medical marijuana enterprise, club, or dispensary" - you cannot legally do this in that city.

 

From a legal point of view, in talking with lawyers - many lawyers grew hesitant about oking this idea - for one - the DEA will be interested in any grow that is near 99 plants. So you have tripped the level in which the DEA likes to get involved in.

There was a discussion about landlords - in what way could they be involved in this project - and not be charged with conspiracy/intent to manufacture a CS?

 

Many lawyers could not outline a safe plan to protect landlords. If the landlord has any idea at all that marijuana was being grown on his property, they could charge him with it. Plausible deniability? Since when does a landlord not check on his property and what is being done on it?

What landlord will risk having his building seized as forfeiture?

 

This is being done BTW, I have seen those. It is a precarious balance in environment - as one bad crop can spread to the next, one issue can effect several crops, not one.

 

What about a cooperative that works with individual grows - people share clones, nutes, soil, pots, and meds - but they all parcipate from their own homes/property. I know this is less profitable than leasing a building for growers - but it is a collective/cooperative.

 

Dr.bob - if your heart feels like you got the right place for this - maybe you should do this. You do have a secure, enclosed facility ; )

I wish nothing but success in this idea.

 

-DN

 

--

 

The Eddie Lepp Idea.

 

Use Land. Land might be available to rent or lease, and since there is no building - the landlord might have less parcipation on the property. Land might be cheaper and more expendable in the case of forfeiture.

Eddie Lepp came up with the idea to rent a 6'x6' spot of land on his property for $500 for the year. What ever you grew on it, was yours. You could see his farm in California from the freeway. By the time the DEA swooped in and arrested him - they counted over 32,000 plants.

 

More outdoor grows, more cooperatives

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This is being done BTW, I have seen those. It is a precarious balance in environment - as one bad crop can spread to the next, one issue can effect several crops, not one.

 

 

 

My sorry skepticism would follow a similar vein, and in keeping with the old adage " Nothing is foolproof, as fools are far too ingenious", I would recommend watching a few hours of Judge Judy to illustrate the many human perils involved in what you are proposing. Remember Doctor, you won't be renting to PHD's...

I can see this idea working in ideal situations, but trust and professionalism would be paramount to its success, and the integer of that success is still considered prosecutable in most climes.

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Thanks for the input. As far as landlord accountability, this is a designated grow facility. It is secured, monitored, and equipped to grow. It is rented to caregivers to grow a designated number of plants under good conditions with legal transfers to their designated patients only via locked box facilities. It would be inspected and signed off by the prosecutor as following the law to a t.

 

It is a viable idea in my opinion, strictly on the caregiver/patient level and follows state law, so I don't think the DEA would be interested as they are not interested in medical patients following their state's law. If there were a number of these facilities around the state, much like rental apartments, caregivers could have a place to grow, costs could be measured, and pricing could be handled based on known factors, not the 'market rate'. Again, this follows the law to a t and there are no places where there are 'gray areas'. The landlord is not involved in the grow itself, just manages the property. If the grower needs a lightbulb, the landlord hands him one. The plants are counted and if someone goes over their limit, the landlord has a lease to calculate the charge and can evict the tenant.

 

Dr. Bob

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hey Dr. bob - I enjoy and respect your writing, and I know you'll take my response equally.

 

I also entertained this idea, and so have several other people I met with. A club or a collective has been worded in some city memoriams and ordinances to mean - a club or organization which the sole purpose is for members to distribute marijuana. Growing would be a part of what they consider distribution. So, by city memoriam or ordinance prohibiting "Any medical marijuana enterprise, club, or dispensary" - you cannot legally do this in that city.

 

Ok, so you don't do this in a city that has that type of zoning...

From a legal point of view, in talking with lawyers - many lawyers grew hesitant about oking this idea - for one - the DEA will be interested in any grow that is near 99 plants. So you have tripped the level in which the DEA likes to get involved in.

There was a discussion about landlords - in what way could they be involved in this project - and not be charged with conspiracy/intent to manufacture a CS?

 

This is a direct caregiver grow, total plants are kept at 99 or below amongst multiple caregivers (or a max of 72 plants with one caregiver/patient).

 

Many lawyers could not outline a safe plan to protect landlords. If the landlord has any idea at all that marijuana was being grown on his property, they could charge him with it. Plausible deniability? Since when does a landlord not check on his property and what is being done on it? What landlord will risk having his building seized as forfeiture?

 

No plausible deniability at all, this is a specific arrangement to rent or lease a grow room and supporting areas to a caregiver within the limits of state law. The only involvement of the landlord with the medication is the video counting of plants to assure no one is going over and weight checks. That doesn't giver plausible deniability, that is a system of checks and balances to be sure the entire grow is run in a professional and legal manner.

 

This is being done BTW, I have seen those. It is a precarious balance in environment - as one bad crop can spread to the next, one issue can effect several crops, not one.

 

This is a technical issue and is best resolved by experts. Separation of grow rooms, pest control, diseases are puzzles, which can be solved with enough information and expertise, not mysteries which must be solved by deduction and reasoning. An example of the difference between a puzzle and a mystery would be vaccines- how do we make and administer a vaccine is a puzzle, should we immunize against a disease is a mystery.

 

What about a cooperative that works with individual grows - people share clones, nutes, soil, pots, and meds - but they all parcipate from their own homes/property. I know this is less profitable than leasing a building for growers - but it is a collective/cooperative.

 

In this case you are looking at the method of production and distribution vs a real estate issue on providing a grow space for rent. There are many ways of cooperatively farming, the question is does this approach add an option and present an opportunity for the non-mmj community to provide support to growers?

 

Dr.bob - if your heart feels like you got the right place for this - maybe you should do this. You do have a secure, enclosed facility ; )

I wish nothing but success in this idea.

 

I am not saying if I am going to do this myself. But it interests me- I cannot be a patient (yes I have some pain and could support an application, but I am a pilot with a federal license), nor can I be a caregiver- physician ethically cannot do this. I cannot certify someone and then offer to be a caregiver for them, even if another doc certified, my activities as a caregiver would be questioned. Being a landlord does take me one step back- I am not involved in the caregiver/patient system, I simply provided a good place for it to work.

 

-DN

 

--

 

The Eddie Lepp Idea.

 

Use Land. Land might be available to rent or lease, and since there is no building - the landlord might have less parcipation on the property. Land might be cheaper and more expendable in the case of forfeiture.

Eddie Lepp came up with the idea to rent a 6'x6' spot of land on his property for $500 for the year. What ever you grew on it, was yours. You could see his farm in California from the freeway. By the time the DEA swooped in and arrested him - they counted over 32,000 plants.

 

More outdoor grows, more cooperatives

 

This latter example is simply stupid and greedy. I am not looking for a loophole, I am looking at an opportunity to provide a place for a strictly medical grow within the caregiver/patient system as outlined by the MMMA. The overall strategy is to service all those caregivers out there that need something like this and involve the non-mmj community as an ally providing it. Property taxes, economic opportunity, all provide strong incentives to 'normalize' medical marijuana in the eyes of business owners, land owners and communities. It is an effort to mainstream caregivers and allow them to operate openly to some extent as any other business people can and should.

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There are so many empty homes, factories, stores. If each could be used in this way to grow 72-99 plants strictly in the caregiver/patient model under the MMMA, think of the economic benefits...

 

Activity in the housing market

Employment

Price of meds

Property values and taxes

 

Side benefits

 

Revitalization of economically depressed cities

School taxes, Road repairs, City operating budgets

Growers need chemicals, vehicles, gasoline, lunch at the local diner

 

Cities can specifically zone for these houses/buildings/pole barns

Electrical and fire inspections.

 

Thinking about our rights, medication, diseases and needs are one thing

True change will occur when we involve the non-mmj community economically.

Big Pharma is not interested in 99 plant grows, they would go for thousands of acres. This is a strong economic incentive to keep things small and local.

 

Dr. Bob

 

ps, off my soap box. it is out there and do with it what you want.

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its a vision, a new idea for an old cause - let's hope someone can put it in use!

 

I still like to see someone try this on for an outdoor grow. Do the same security setup for collective growers, but no electricity needed for lights!

 

DN

 

We know that indoor grows are approved. When trying something new, lets go from what we know can stand up to a court challenge. I would recommend we stick inside until the courts have approved this set up.

 

Dr. Bob

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Note, this is posted in legal professionals, I would like to see an attorney chime in with advice or criticisms of the model. Again, the overall purpose is not for me to necessarily be a landlord, but as a viable way for real estate owners to service the community. The overall picture is one of mainstreaming the business of being a caregiver on a small scale and to meet a need, and in the course of both economically invest the non-mmj community in the process to help us protect the Act.

 

Dr. Bob

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Another idea along these things could be using the Grow trailers. If you had land, you rent out space on that land for a CG to put a trailer. They are expensive, but then the landlord puts up a fence, adds security alarms on the perimeter, cameras, etc, and then provides power and water to each trailer spot. More of a mobile home park setup.

 

I saw the trailers online a while back. I can't recall exactly who was making them, but the ones I am thinking of are made out of Sea Transport containers, so once they are on site, you take them off the wheels so they can't be stolen easy. Helps to isolate issues in grows as well since each one is sealed off from the others.

 

http://towandgrow.com/wordpress/?page_id=38

 

Problem is, these are booming in places that actually allow sale to dispensaries, as the only real way to afford these is to actually be making decent money off your grow. It would take a few years to pay off the trailer.

 

Cedar

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I guess that depends on production and use by the patients under the caregiver. If those patients are also caregivers for other patients, it increases the storage capacity of the system and allows for higher production grows. It can be done.

 

Dr. Bob

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Wasn't there a large co-op busted in East Lansing? Isn't that the seven caregivers that the DEA is trying to get info on? Isn't the Federal government sending MM states notice that they will bust these types of grows? Correct me if I am wrong............

 

You are wrong....

 

This is an operation limited by the total number of plants (below 99 in total), each caregiver has their own grow room. Strictly caregiver to designated patient, no dispensary or commercial grows, and strict regulation of the cost of meds to production, labor and service cost. Not market rate. Every argument the DEA has is pretty much blunted, pure MMMA grow. Only thing they have left is it is illegal under federal law, but they are clearly directed not to investigate pure medical grows in obvious compliance with Michigan's Law.

 

What specific issues about the model are you concerned about?

 

Dr. Bob

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Back to indoor grows - I also understand that the DEA did not touch plants that were growing at one of these raided dispensaries - they had been caged and secured. Other news reports of raided cooperatives usually had other issues - stolen electricity, selling to the wrong people, over plant count. Those seem to be the primary reasons for LEO involvement, perhaps not growers working together but anything above that.

 

What about paying a greenhouse/nursery owner to allow you to run crops on the off season - he is a landlord, and he is setup for growing already.

 

-DN

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The city commissioners seem to be really concerned about changing of the landscape of the neighborhoods so i wouldnt think foreclosed homes would be the best choice.. Plus all that renovating that would be needed for this type of a venture. I just LOVE the idea of small seperate grows Like written into this law because it keeps the pts and cgs SAFE as was intended by the writers. And helps ALOT more ppl improve the quality of their lives..

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This latter example is simply stupid and greedy. I am not looking for a loophole, I am looking at an opportunity to provide a place for a strictly medical grow within the caregiver/patient system as outlined by the MMMA. The overall strategy is to service all those caregivers out there that need something like this and involve the non-mmj community as an ally providing it. Property taxes, economic opportunity, all provide strong incentives to 'normalize' medical marijuana in the eyes of business owners, land owners and communities. It is an effort to mainstream caregivers and allow them to operate openly to some extent as any other business people can and should.

 

 

I dont think it is the Medical Cannabis people that disagree..It is FBI, DEA, Ect..You need to convince them...NOT us...I for one know a few that been hatching this idea for allmost 3 years now..ANd in NOT one medical STATE has this happened or has been allowed..In other hand,If you and a few others are willing to put your neck out for the rest of us..Great...Again I am not AGAINST this idea..I hope it works out..Could be a big step for all..GOOD LUCK, THE Mayor.

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Biggest thing to get the ball rolling would be growers that would agree to take a 24 plant room. There are a lot of services provided with the grow complex, so a rent of $1500 seems to be the reasonable number that is going around. 24x2.5x200=12k per 3 month cycle with rent of $4500, seems economically viable at that level even with the grower buying chemicals and electricity. First/last/security and 2 months rent means $7500 due at the first 3 month harvest, then monthly from then on out. Facility will be located in Clare county and the attorney has signed off on it.

 

PM me if you have serious interest.

 

Dr. Bob

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Biggest thing to get the ball rolling would be growers that would agree to take a 24 plant room. There are a lot of services provided with the grow complex, so a rent of $1500 seems to be the reasonable number that is going around. 24x2.5x200=12k per 3 month cycle with rent of $4500, seems economically viable at that level even with the grower buying chemicals and electricity. First/last/security and 2 months rent means $7500 due at the first 3 month harvest, then monthly from then on out. Facility will be located in Clare county and the attorney has signed off on it.

 

PM me if you have serious interest.

 

Dr. Bob

 

When people start agreeing on 24 plants per caregiver, then you are cutting the other 36 away from him..Which takes away from others..I am not sure where you got the numbers (like $1,500.00)I havent seen such HIGH numbers since i listened to the Sheriff,s talk..THEY (cops, sheriff,ect) think there is a mint into in door grows..There is not..BUT i say try this in Gaylord Or Detroit..They can afford it down there..Clare is one of the POOREST counties n Michigan..This is just inviteing trouble, out of town scum with big money to ruin our community and all the work we have done with our community..again I think we should just follow the laws as written and leave well enough alone..Clare county is a good county, We have good relations with them..Maybe this is not the time to be pushing this..At least here..

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