Robert Townsend: End Fear Of Medical Marijuana

[hofner67]

Calling Hank Hill .. calling Hank Hill

Yeah, I didn't catch that.

[peanutbutter]

Yeah, I didn't catch that.

 

[peanutbutter]

Paranoid zealots ..

[+Silverblue]

Inventing a crisis- they're very good at that. Imagine if they would turn that talent around to create something positive for THE PEOPLE! It'd win them lots of points, people would be willing to vote for them, work with them, campaign for them, but nooooo, they think being tyrants is the only way! Thankfully the people are realizing this whole mess is a sham to gain control over us and our law.

 

Remember, it's OUR medicine, OUR law, and OUR RIGHTS!

 

Sb

[Kingdiamond]

Im going to get me some popcorn this is gonna be good !

[tooldini]

Pretty awesome Dr.Bob your smackin em up good. I really appreciate what all of you do on here.

[Dr. Bob]

At last check, the Saginaw article had 120 comments. We stirred up a storm.

 

Dr. Bob

[jimbojinx]

We need to try to get that article showing up around the state....I have sent it on to my more liberal friends but so far I have not had a single response !!

 

Dr. Jinx

[KathywithaK]

At last check, the Saginaw article had 120 comments. We stirred up a storm.

 

Dr. Bob

now has 121 would'nt let me post comment,but seen new article that language has been approved to RECALL DR. Kahn. great interview in saginaw news Dr.Bob, Thanks!

[Dr. Bob]

Well that was fun and good press I think. We'll keep it up down the road.

 

Dr. Bob

[hofner67]

It was fun. Somehow I don't think kahn will engage you directly again. You burned him and showed what he's about. And then some. Gotta believe the people that knew him at one time and commented as such were truthful. How is it that his politics seems to override his calling as a physician? Strange.

[+Silverblue]

The most important point of all is they refuse to implement the law- if they'd only do that, they'd see fewer problems. Because of their refusal, it's obvious to me, as I've said before, they NEVER intended to implement it. Add to that the ongoing, constant misinformation, comment ommissions, and scrutiny of our community, the trivial nitpicking on technicalities that don't take int oaccount the whole situation, and you have a recipe for disaster.

 

Access the patient testimonials, look at the victims of the system, see the compelling EVIDENCE, the FACTS behind our claims. Talk with people who have experienced these things. Given enough time, a very consistent, glaring message will come through, and it'll be obvious. There is more than one side to this story, ours is the one being ignored and slandered. It's about time the people knew. Many already do know, because they know someone who's a pt or cg, it may even be themselves. Someone knows how MM has improved the quality of life, THAT is something which is FAR MORE POWERFUL than anything.

 

This is OUR medicine, OUR law, Our RIGHTS, and OUR Community! We are Family.

 

Sb

[Dr. Bob]

It was fun. Somehow I don't think kahn will engage you directly again. You burned him and showed what he's about. And then some. Gotta believe the people that knew him at one time and commented as such were truthful. How is it that his politics seems to override his calling as a physician? Strange.

 

I especially liked the bit about him walking a pig on a leash.....Nice pig doc.

 

Dr. Bob

[treehugger]

now has 121 would'nt let me post comment,but seen new article that language has been approved to RECALL DR. Kahn. great interview in saginaw news Dr.Bob, Thanks!

 

Instead of trashing Dr. Kahn, we should recruit and promote Dr. Bob for state office and let his voice of reason and experience shine over the corrupt representations of the like of Dr Kahn. The time is ripe Dr. Bob, be our George Washington...

[Dr. Bob]

Instead of trashing Dr. Kahn, we should recruit and promote Dr. Bob for state office and let his voice of reason and experience shine over the corrupt representations of the like of Dr Kahn. The time is ripe Dr. Bob, be our George Washington...

 

Maybe I can turn him to the good side of the force, doctor to doctor, worth a try.

 

Dr. Bob

 

I would rather spend my time working with patients, but thanks for the vote of confidence. I don't believe I live in that district anyhow and am a resident of SC.

[Dr. Bob]

Just to make things clear. Kahn's Bill is SB 506

 

Here are the components of the 'bona fide' doctor patient relationship

 

(1) TAKEN A MEDICAL HISTORY OF THE PATIENT.

5 (2) PERFORMED A RELEVANT PHYSICAL EXAMINATION.

6 (3) REVIEWED PRIOR TREATMENT AND TREATMENT RESPONSES.

7 (4) OBTAINED AND REVIEWED RELEVANT DIAGNOSTIC TEST RESULTS.

8 (5) DISCUSSED ADVANTAGES, DISADVANTAGES, ALTERNATIVES,

1 POTENTIAL ADVERSE EFFECTS, AND THE EXPECTED RESPONSE TO THE

2 RECOMMENDED TREATMENT AND MADE REASONABLE EFFORTS TO ENSURE THAT

3 THE PATIENT UNDERSTANDS THAT INFORMATION.

4 (6) PROVIDED FOR MONITORING THE PATIENT TO DETERMINE THE

5 RESPONSE TO AND ANY SIDE EFFECTS OF THE TREATMENT.

6 (7) CREATED AND MAINTAINED RECORDS FOR THE PATIENT.

7 (8) NOTIFIED THE PATIENT'S PRIMARY CARE PHYSICIAN, IF ANY.

 

Let's be real about this, I already do this, the mills don't the end effect is that the mills are out of business and the 55 certification docs go to about 15 and those of us left get rich. While it is good to get rid of the no record mills, there are a couple of problems here as I see it.

 

1. Taking a history, fine, but what is a relevant examination? I can see how this can cause a problem. For example you come in with a documented history of Corhns, which is diagnosed by colonoscopy. Do I have to do a colonoscopy before I can certify you, can I rely on the documentation of the diagnosis in the chart, and what am I specifically looking for on exam? If you have a documented history of a laminectomy, I inspect your skin and see the scar, can I call it a day? A 'directed' physical is good, I am looking for specific findings like a laminectomy scar to confirm your diagnosis. What am I looking for in an AIDs patient other than the blood work? How will a prosecutor interpret this?

 

I take a history and look for specific things with a directed physical if there are findings I am looking for, but if you have been diagnosed by your primary care physician with the condition, is that good enough?

 

 

2. Reviewing treatment history and responses, of course that is in your records and I require records. Do I have to order a CT if you don't have the report from the one you had 6 months ago, especially if your doctor talks about the results in the note? All part of the record review I do.

 

3. Expected course of treatment, alternatives, side effects, etc, this can be handled with a hand out that you sign for. I think this is not a bad idea and I'll include it in my packet.

 

4. Monitoring and follow up, this is done with a survey I have you fill out when you get your plastic card, I am also available for the entire year for questions. I am going to do some internet based follow up on a weekly basis as soon as the software is ready. But I started formal follow ups with the Redden decision.

 

5. Create a record- I maintain a chart on everyone to include their documentation, application packet, my progress note, and the follow up when it comes in. No problem with that.

 

What I do have a problem with is the mandatory notification of your primary. If the primary refers you to me, of course they get a copy of the report- that is the way it works. But if you self refer, under this bill I MUST notify your primary, or your card is void and I have no protection with the medical board.

 

What the bill does is two fold:

 

It gets rid of the mills, promotes good medical practice and allows for telemedicine (the good things)

It forces reporting to your primary, over your objections if need be, because if the primary isn't notified not only do you lose your card, I can lose my license (the bad things).

 

The end result is that there will be more fear with doctors, fewer physicians will write certifications because they run the risk of board action without the protection of the Act, and the price will go way up.

 

Jones's Bill HB 4851 is even worse on a couple of areas but does not spell out loss of protection for physicians.

 

A key feature is that you have to be treating the patient for reasons other than a certification, and you are responsible for those conditions. What this means is that only primary care doctors, YOUR primary care doctor, can write you a certification. 14 of 15 don't even participate in the program. Essentially certifications will come to a screaming halt and there will be no certification clinics. Telemedicine is also specifically not allowed, so if you are out in the Western UP you get to do some driving.

 

The biggest problem with BOTH bills is that they don't address the problem. Primary care doctors are not encouraged to participate in the program. To really effect a solution, they need to be brought into the fray. Hospitals and non-federal (federal is like the VA, not 'federally funded' which is a BS term for any practice that takes medicare) CANNOT forbid their doctors from writing certs, and those certs should be written on demand from any QUALIFIED patient as a bona fide treatment option. Patients need to be protected by not being kicked out or cut off of their care if they have MMJ in their systems and a card. By extension, this should include employers unless there is evidence of actual impairment at work until such time as a blood level of some metabolite can be agreed upon to be proof of impairment, like we have with alcohol.

 

Ok those are my thoughts on the bills. I have already set things in motion to comply with them so I am still standing when the mills are shut down. Someone has to take up the slack when primary care doctors continue to refuse to write certs and the mills are gone. Quality will go up over all, but access will be very limited.

 

You want 'good medical practices' and no more mills, take away the reasons people don't simply go to their primary care doctors. These reasons are the docs don't write certs, and if you ask about them or get one elsewhere you can lose your pain meds and possibly get kicked out of the practice. If you were safe to ask about certs, could expect to get one if you qualified, and weren't penalized for getting the card, clinics like mine pretty much won't be needed.

 

Dr. Bob

[Dr. Bob]

I agree with you Blueberry, there are good aspects to some of the bills, but for the most part they are designed to restrict access and give reasons to pull cards and in the case of Kahn's bill pull a doctor's license or subject them to board action. Bills SHOULD be designed to promote access and safety along the lines of the intention of the Act, anything that is restrictive should include substantial return (access, protection, etc) for patients. I could support some requirements for records and follow up formalized in the law IF it was applied across the board (in the medical practice act, not the MMMA) AND conditions were changed to encourage at least 1/2 of all primary care doctors to participate in the program. If patient could be open with their doctors, get a certification on demand if they qualified, and were protected from being discharged from the practice or loss of their pain meds.

 

Dr. Bob

[+Silverblue]

(Coming out of hibernation for a short while). Hey I have an idea! Let's gather all the names of the card mills and send them the reps who think the legitimate ones are the same! Especially those that have no on site dr, have pre-signed certs, and no records required! I got the idea after speaking with Dr. Bob on the radio. By the way, I'm sure I did not press 1 to talk on the air, a technical glitch I guess, but that's ok! I WANT THAT LIST OF CARD MILLS! SEND IT AROUND!!! THEY are a LOT of our problem! I think this idea will work and show the reps we do NOT WANT those mills! WE WANT OUR DOCTORS to sign our certs AND do follow-ups!

 

Sb

[+Silverblue]

OK Bb I'm awake for now. Everyone needs a break or they get burned out, even if it's just for a few days. Even one day helps. Without that rest, I might not be able to come back.

 

I want that list of card mills ASAP! I know the name of one place but I can't remember the others. If whoever went to those would give me the name of the place, and tell me if there was a dr on site, if patients without records got a cert, and if there were pre-signed certs, with and without a dr on site, we could compile a list and even get the dr's names, look up their records, too.THEN we can send this info off and show our supposed reps what the REAL PROBLEM IS and WHY. These card mills would NOT exist IF drs were allowed tO do the certs, which, we must also remind them, the law says THE DRs ARE ALSO PROTECTED. Let's nail this thing! If there's any other info we should have, please let us know.

 

Something Dr. Bob said on the radio show inspired me. THANKS DOC!

Sb

[Musicianized]

OK Bb I'm awake for now. Everyone needs a break or they get burned out, even if it's just for a few days. Even one day helps. Without that rest, I might not be able to come back.

 

I want that list of card mills ASAP! I know the name of one place but I can't remember the others. If whoever went to those would give me the name of the place, and tell me if there was a dr on site, if patients without records got a cert, and if there were pre-signed certs, with and without a dr on site, we could compile a list and even get the dr's names, look up their records, too.THEN we can send this info off and show our supposed reps what the REAL PROBLEM IS and WHY. These card mills would NOT exist IF drs were allowed tO do the certs, which, we must also remind them, the law says THE DRs ARE ALSO PROTECTED. Let's nail this thing! If there's any other info we should have, please let us know.

 

Something Dr. Bob said on the radio show inspired me. THANKS DOC!

Sb

 

Well what about the people who have used these "mills" to get their card, but are legit patients deserving MMJ? Wouldn't that kind of screw them over though? I'm sure there are a lot of non legit people involved with the mills, but many legit ones too. Heck I'd go to the closest, easiest and cheapest one around me if I wasn't somewhat educated on the issues taking place.

[Musicianized]

Dr. Bob you made an excellent post on Mlive, that should be an article by itself.

 

I'm waiting for an email confirmation for that site. But after rading the 120+ posts I'm glad to see the supporters greatly outnumber the anti's on there. I can't believe how ignorant those people are, every one of them. There aren't any fence sitters lol, they are either pro, stupid or government.

[Dr. Bob]

Thanks for the comments and support. Up around 190 for the Saginaw article.

 

SB, what my opinion is about who is a mill and who isn't shouldn't really come out as it could be construed as 'bashing' my so called 'competition'. I think the comments should come from the members based on their experience. Did you go to a cattle call? Were you asked to sign an affidavit saying you were 'sick' in lieu of the medical records you will need to defend yourself if you go to court? Did you even meet with a doctor?

 

Alternative Solutions Plus had a no doctor clinic in Marquette on 7-25-11 at the Landmark. They are also the ones that sent out the green postcards with names and MMJ status open for the world to see. I am currently suing them and they have been order to turn over my personal records and stop contacting my patients. If I did your certification and you are being contacted by them trying to get you to renew by mail, they are violating the orders of the court and need to be reported to me via PM. In my opinion, they are the example of a mill that these proposed laws are targeting for shut down. If we continue to attend these clinics, to support them financially, we are going to destroy the act. Again, this is my personal opinion, but anyone that goes to one of these $100 with records, $200 without clinics is putting a nail in the MMMA's coffin. It is very hard to defend your rights if you got your cert by signing an affidavit that you are sick, and another one saying you aren't recording them. They must have things to hide.

 

There are others, and reports of them need to come from members and patients. This particular one is in court now and has some serious legal issues to face based on what they did with patients, privacy, and possible criminal activity simply to make a buck. This is public record, not bashing, and demonstrates that a marketing company knows how to make money, but not run a clinic or practice medicine. Since their doc can't be bothered to see the patients in Marquette, I suspect he wont be bothered to show up in court if you need him to defend you. Is cutting a few corners and maybe saving a few bucks really worth it?

 

Dr. Bob

[peanutbutter]

OK Bb I'm awake for now. Everyone needs a break or they get burned out, even if it's just for a few days. Even one day helps. Without that rest, I might not be able to come back.

 

I want that list of card mills ASAP! I know the name of one place but I can't remember the others. If whoever went to those would give me the name of the place, and tell me if there was a dr on site, if patients without records got a cert, and if there were pre-signed certs, with and without a dr on site, we could compile a list and even get the dr's names, look up their records, too.THEN we can send this info off and show our supposed reps what the REAL PROBLEM IS and WHY. These card mills would NOT exist IF drs were allowed tO do the certs, which, we must also remind them, the law says THE DRs ARE ALSO PROTECTED. Let's nail this thing! If there's any other info we should have, please let us know.

 

Something Dr. Bob said on the radio show inspired me. THANKS DOC!

Sb

 

The size of the list would vary a lot based on who compiled the list.

 

Dr. Bob himself would be on some lists because of the skype stuff.

[2grnthmbs]

Hey Dr. Bob, why can't you receive any new messages here? Is your inbox full? Wanted to touch base with you about something.

[2grnthmbs]

I guess it wasn't anticipated that the Medical Marijuana Act would need to protect us from "doctors". That is the problem. It is time our new Attorney General starts going after the real criminals and stops further victimizing sick people.