Good Faith Agreements

[+Silverblue]

I've seen too many sad stories of bad cg''s, too many stories of agreements not honored, and I have to say something.

 

THE PROBLEM: IT GIVES THE WHOLE COMMUNITY A BIG BLACK EYE! Don't we have enough trouble with all the propaganda being put out against us?

 

When people get together and decide to enter into an agreement, they have made a commitment to honor that agreement. An agreement is a mutual arrangement which assures each person involved, that they will fulfill their part of the situation. In the case of a cg, this should, like any other agreement, be put in writing. Some people are so trusting, they believe the person they're dealing with will honor their end of the bargain and carry out their obligations which were mutually agreed upon. These patients are very ill, may not be able to rely on their Intuition, because their illness and life situation has caused them so much stress, they're unable to think straight and be aware of what their Intuition is saying. When someone is desperate, it's hard to focus on anything else, all they know is they're in pain and need relief FAST. Often, for awhile, the situation will go smoothly, but after awhile, something goes wrong, and pt's are left suffering, with no meds, thus legitimizing the need for such operations as dispensaries. I like the farmers' market model much better, and sincerely hope with all my heart, to see it succeed and blossom into a very strong, acceptable alternative to the disp, but not to replace the pt/cg model, which is really the best way to go, in my humble opinion. I know it's not easy being a cg, though not from personal experience, but I read enough here, and spoken to some personally, to realize what a chore it is, but it has to first be a LABOR OF LOVE. This is about COMPASSION and PATIENTS FIRST! Being a cg is an awesome responsibility, someone's life is in their hands. They must be very careful and realize how SERIOUS this responsibility is. I am very glad to also see there are many more cg's who ARE genuinely Compassionate and often go out of their way to ensure someone isn't without their medicine.

 

Do we want the greater community to take us seriously? Well then if we do, we have to control how our community conducts itself, INCLUDING where its business activities are concerned. We have to rid ourselves of the bad cg's. I know there are bad pt's, too. That is also a very big part of our image problem, along with those "expo's," that seem more catered to the recreational user than the medical community. We know what the problems are; to every problem there IS a realistic, practical, acceptable SOLUTION. We just need to agree on what that is, and carry it out. It's OUR law, OUR medicine, and OUR RIGHT.

THE SOLUTION: Many times, there have been talk of a written contract between pt and cg. It would solve a LOT of problems, but we also need an oversight board, which has also been discussed a few times. We have to "police" ourselves, and prove we can be responsible. It would go a LONG way toward improving our image. Agreed?

 

I've seen too many sad stories that usually don't get resolved. This is wrong, and needs to be corrected ASAP- for the sake of our community. If we are to stay focused on PATIENTS FIRST, it's their needs that should always be first in a cg's mind. IF there's a problem, that needs to be resolved somehow. A pt should be able to have in their agreement, "IF for any reason, you are unable or unwilling to fulfill your end of this agreement, this contract will be null and void." That could work both ways, too. IF there's an agreed upon amount of compensation that's required, that hasn't been paid, the cg can nullify the relationship, too. We desperately need an oversight board, there should be a way to set this up, and have these people be elected to a specified term. It could work, and not be very complicated, as long as the most important aspect of it is always honored- the patient is the most important person in this situation. NO ONE should be made to suffer. It's bad enough our opponents are doing all they can to cause as much suffering as possible- we don't need to add to it. There should be a list of good cg's and not so good cg's, that the oversight board can have on hand to review. They could be able to look at this list and advise someone about a person on either list. The best way to measure who's good or not is by patient testimonials. When there's a good report, put that cg in a green column, when it's bad, put them in a red column. The board could consist of 3-5 people. There'd be a mediator/negotiator/arbitrator, whatever the position is that would hear grievances, and a set procedure to resolve any complaints. It doesn't need to get into a legal entanglement, in fact, this would help prevent any legal action by either side,. IF it got that serious, the matter would be taken to that level, and handled by those better qualified.

 

I truly believe this is all very doable. The agreement doesn't have to be complicated. I know this could work. It's about time this very much needed service be put into place. Please, for the Patients. After all, it's about them and their ability to have a steady supply of quality meds, from reliable, Compassionate cg's. Being Reliable AND compassionate should go hand in hand. I know situations change, but there should be a provision for that. Chit happens, not all cg's are able to continue providing this service. If a cg was honest enough to tell their pt's they're unable to work with them anymore, the least they could do is help find someone who can; if not, at least be respectful enough of the pt to inform them in a timely manner that they're no longer able to fulfill their obligation and sever the agreement peaceably.

 

We have to do this, for the sake of our community, to ensure the pt's comfort and safety. I would be willing to serve on such a committee, but I can't do it alone. I'd be willing to work out the agreement that would be the standard for each person involved. No one's gonna do this for us, but if anyone did, it would prob'ly not be to our advantage. We cannot let this kind of stuff continue, it's extremely damaging to our community, and to those who are trusting enough to believe they'll be in good hands when they need to depend on someone to grow their medicine for them.

 

From now on, there should be no services without a prior written agreement. That should go for anything and anyone. The best of intentions often go sideways, for whatever reason. We must protect ourselves, especially where our health and safety is concerned.

 

Good Faith is about TRUST- which is in itself a huge leap of faith. It's important, as with any service provided, that this trust is never broken. It'd be the same with anyone in any other profession- once that trust is broken, the client loses faith, not only in that person or company, but in the whole situation. Many will lose faith in the program and not renew, rather than to always have to be guessing if their meds will arrive on time, if the quality is good, if the terms will stay the same, if the cg is reliable, reasonable, friendly, and trustworthy.

 

I hope something will be done about this ASAP. It can't wait any longer. If we are to save our community and our law, we have to do this, or someone else will, who will definitely not be someone we would want to entrust our health to. I don't expect Bb to do everything here, nor Michael either, though I would like some guidance on this and will look at anything I can dig up that's been mentioned already.

 

Sincerely, Sb

[Morhawk]

I could understand an advisory board if CG's could have 20 or more patients. 5 patients per CG is a lot to oversee. (Roughly 80,000 pt's could mean 6,000 CG's) And it seems CG's come and go according to some of the stories I have read on the forum here. I would suggest patients "interviewing" their prospective CG's. I mean with only 5 "slots" word of mouth can only go so far before a CG can say Sorry, I'm full. Maybe ask the CG if they can talk to the CG's other patients. Of course, the CG would have to ask permission to give out their info as a reference, or even arrange a meeting for a dinner or something for the current pt's and interested pt. (With the prospective patient buying of course.. j/k lol) Personally, if I was to be a patient, I would operate the same way I operate normally. You screw up, you are gone. Everyone gets a free pass here and there, but some of these people put up with way too much crap from horrid CG's.

 

It does amaze me though, that reading some stories, that a good CG is few and far between, but then read statements from patients (sometimes their first post) demanding free meds, on this schedule, with the strain to be switched weekly, delivered, put it in their mouth, and light it for them.. So I am not sure what to take of the "bad CG enigma."

[+Silverblue]

As I said, it goes both ways. The point about the demanding pt's is well taken. I can hardly imagine being in severe, constant pain, as well as being poor and unable to pick up my meds, and I can hardly imagine what its like to be a cg who has to work all that into a schedule.

 

Sb

[Morhawk]

Yeah.. Plus the law is only 3 years old. I imagine a lot of prospective CG's came in thinking it would be easy to grow, and then just killed plant after plant and gave up. Plus it takes time to learn to get the best results, so even the ones that stuck it out are just now getting to their full potential. It will eventually balance itself out, I would think. Patients will find the caregiver that fulfills their needs. If we were 10-15 years deep into the law, then I would be concerned. But it's only been 3 years..

[smokeythebear]

I can see helping the people that need it, but how can someone spend hundreds of dollars a month and then just give everything away?

 

It's easy for the people who dont grow to say it's spose to be about compation when they dont have a $200+ power bill along with everything else it takes.

 

nothing is free in life including growing good meds......why should they get a free ride? a 5 patient CG might be able to do one or two light users that are sick for free a month, but they gotta pay the bills too.

 

remember the smoke is free from every CG anyways as much as you want 2.5 oz at a time......it's the CG time and supplies you are paying for not the free smoke.

 

hope I didn't come off as a donkey but this one guy last year told me his patient called the state of MI on him for "charging too much"! I was on downstates CL and seen a caretaker special for 2 ounces going for $750!!!! Thats a little over board, around here it's $200-300 but around 250 most times for one.

[pic book]

I use a one-page patient/caregiver agreement. It lays out the obligations and promised performance of both parties. (I modified DrTarzan's). I failed one patient when my vehicle died and I could no longer deliver (my delivering was written into the agreement). Her quitting wasn't the problem, it was her failure to notify me that she had already moved on and her plants needed to have moved out of my grow room. In fact the agreement she signed states terminating CG's services requires patient to send caregiver a certified notice. Thank dank--her next CG turned out to be a tight bud of mine, phoned me up and I knew to drop 12. If your monthly contact is usually limited to once per month that leaves a lot of days a grower can un-knowingly be over count. BTW, not related to this past event, today I need a patient. I'm SW Detroit. Send PM.

[Willy]

I love how this comes up so frequently, the fact of the matter is this, firstly I have no issues with any patients i have met, helped or signed. I talked with my patients way before hand, met with them a few times . Gave them free meds to try first and let them decide if the quality was there and if the price would be fair to them. I also asked about there monthly use to see that i could without fail keep them with an uninteruptible supply. Common sence, not GREED works very well. Use it folks thats why you have it.

 

The idea that it should be free is fine, except that my electric bill isn't, nor my nutrients, pots, lights, assorted additives, and my time. I spend time in the garden every day, any grower does. Its not a reality to leave it for a few days, plants dry out, temps get to hot. All this needs to be monitored DAILY. Don't get much of a break from it. It is a way of life.

A monthly cost for me, is 480. electric.

 

I am entirely legal, but i jump everytime a car enters the driveway or when, my alarms go off, dog barks etc. Yes its legal only if you don't get found. So a caregiver/grower lives with fear sorry but its true, I read daily the posts of growers found by our illustrious law enforcemnt folks fighting for there lives.

With all that on my back, i would never accept someone telling me how i should act as a caregiver. IF someone thinks they are going to tell me how i should conduct myself with my friends/patients, well they can forget that, fair is the word. I have no problem with overages, or complaints. In fact I am told frequently how thankful they are for my services. You see fair prices and compassion do go hand in hand. If you are needing someone to tell you how to act accordingly then you shouldn't be a cg. Oh and lets not forget the patient that creeps in and is fine for a month, then they asks for more than they said they would ever use, LOTS MORE, asking for 1/4lbs or more. Then when you decline to break the law, they disappear, to find another CG that will break the law for them. You wasted you time and effort to try to help these folks, then you are left with too many plants because you changed the grow to accomandate there needs, or claimed needs. And you don't know that they left becasue they won't/don't even let you know.

 

DO we need a commitee to monitor how patients are treating there CG?.. Let's police them too.

I would not accept a commitee to tell me what is right, i already know what is right.

As a patient and a cg, i can relate to both sides. And finally I give freely all the time. Ask those that know me!!!

 

Now tell me why I'm wrong.

[lilmiscantberong]

DO we need a commitee to monitor how patients are treating there CG?.. Let's police them too.

I would not accept a commitee to tell me what is right, i already know what is right.

As a patient and a cg, i can relate to both sides. And finally I give freely all the time. Ask those that know me!!!

 

Now tell me why I'm wrong.

 

 

You are not wrong.

 

To much of people sticking their noses in where they are not wanted or warranted. The last thing we need is another "agency" to police our private lives and activities. This is a very private issue for most of this community and we would like to keep it that way.

[CedarSpringsCG]

Yeah, the horror PT stories are just as bad as the horror CG stories. However I think PT's are more apt to post them because they want pity, they really have nothing to lose, but a CG that comes on and complains could be labeled as a bad CG, even if it were the PT completely in the wrong.

 

I have a long horror story about a PT, but I won't bore you here with it, point is even if it is family, your twin brother, you should have a contract that covers both sides, not just what a CG will do for the patient, but what is expected of the patient. Like I have a rule, no 2 am calls demanding meds within the hour. No calls period between 8 am and 6 pm M-F. If you want delivery, I need 1 day notice at least. I am very strict in my contracts, and then very giving in reality, because I know if you will agree to what I put in the contract, I can over deliver and the PT will never have reason to be upset.

 

So, ANY contract between a CG and PT should state it all, methods and times of proper communication, how it is delivered (pre-rolled, zips, medibles), expected quantities(not a hard set guarantee, just what is expected, and this part can be amended anytime), price for service, and also list the CG responsibilities like how long from a PT call to a response, no mold, what types of pesticides are OK, who owns the plants if you terminate, proper method of termination.

 

List out everything, for both sides.

 

As much as everyone wants it to be that being a CG is just fun, it is not, there is a work aspect to it, and if you have it all hammered out, then you can get to the relaxing part. And trust me, you need a contract even if it is your brother. If you expect payment for service at all, you need a contract. I'd recommend a contract even if your service was free.

 

Cedar

[+Silverblue]

DEAR WILLY, Whoa! hold on there, I have no hostilities toward you, I will not tell you how wrong you are or argue with you, I'm not dictating to you or ANYONE how to behave, just suggesting what is fair for all involved! So let me clarify my words for you and others who are jumping on my case here.

 

Answer me this, Willy and anyone else reading:

 

DID I SAY ALL FIVE PT's SHOULD HAVE FREE MEDS? NO! I know it costs money, I know there are risks, I know it's not easy, I know crops fail, I know it takes time to get it right, NOW, here's the way I see the situation:

 

EDIT: Cg takes on 5 pt's, asks for compensation from 3 or 4, (not 5) oops... so 1 or 2 can have free meds, the poorest and most ill.

 

I don't wanna be sorry I created this thread. I don't need hostility, when I'm trying to assure that all arrangements are FAIR FOR EVERYONE so please remember I'M ON YOUR SIDE HERE OK? I love this community, it's my family, it's all I have, but I'll gladly walk away if I'm gonna be scolded for CARING ENOUGH TO TRY TO HELP. I haven't singled anyone out, I haven't accused anyone of anything, and I don't wanna waste my time DEFENDING MYSELF and there's no need for anyone else to defend themselves IF they're doing what's fair for their patients so please back off. So, what part of "I'm not telling you how to conduct yourself" don't you understand? You took my words personally, I'm sorry for that, if you're a good cg, there's NO REASON for being defensive. I don't need to defend myself to anyone here either.

 

EXCUUUUSE ME FOR CARING! I'M SICK AND TIRED OF BEING ATTACKED FOR TRYING TO HELP!

 

Sincerely, Sb

I love how this comes up so frequently, the fact of the matter is this, firstly I have no issues with any patients i have met, helped or signed. I talked with my patients way before hand, met with them a few times . Gave them free meds to try first and let them decide if the quality was there and if the price would be fair to them. I also asked about there monthly use to see that i could without fail keep them with an uninteruptible supply. Common sence, not GREED works very well. Use it folks thats why you have it.

 

The idea that it should be free is fine, except that my electric bill isn't, nor my nutrients, pots, lights, assorted additives, and my time. I spend time in the garden every day, any grower does. Its not a reality to leave it for a few days, plants dry out, temps get to hot. All this needs to be monitored DAILY. Don't get much of a break from it. It is a way of life.

A monthly cost for me, is 480. electric.

 

I am entirely legal, but i jump everytime a car enters the driveway or when, my alarms go off, dog barks etc. Yes its legal only if you don't get found. So a caregiver/grower lives with fear sorry but its true, I read daily the posts of growers found by our illustrious law enforcemnt folks fighting for there lives.

With all that on my back, i would never accept someone telling me how i should act as a caregiver. IF someone thinks they are going to tell me how i should conduct myself with my friends/patients, well they can forget that, fair is the word. I have no problem with overages, or complaints. In fact I am told frequently how thankful they are for my services. You see fair prices and compassion do go hand in hand. If you are needing someone to tell you how to act accordingly then you shouldn't be a cg. Oh and lets not forget the patient that creeps in and is fine for a month, then they asks for more than they said they would ever use, LOTS MORE, asking for 1/4lbs or more. Then when you decline to break the law, they disappear, to find another CG that will break the law for them. You wasted you time and effort to try to help these folks, then you are left with too many plants because you changed the grow to accomandate there needs, or claimed needs. And you don't know that they left becasue they won't/don't even let you know.

 

DO we need a commitee to monitor how patients are treating there CG?.. Let's police them too.

I would not accept a commitee to tell me what is right, i already know what is right.

As a patient and a cg, i can relate to both sides. And finally I give freely all the time. Ask those that know me!!!

 

Now tell me why I'm wrong.

I WASN'T ACCUSING YOU OF ANYTHING, I DON'T EVEN KNOW YOU SO PLEASE STOP BEING DEFENSIVE I CANNOT SEE THAT YOU HAVE SAID ANYTHING WRONG EXCEPT THAT YOU ASSUME I AM TELLING YOU HOW TO CONDUCT YOURSELF- PLEASE STOP ACCUSING ME OF DOING SOMETHING I AM NOT!

[+Silverblue]

I can see helping the people that need it, but how can someone spend hundreds of dollars a month and then just give everything away?

 

It's easy for the people who dont grow to say it's spose to be about compation when they dont have a $200+ power bill along with everything else it takes.

 

nothing is free in life including growing good meds......why should they get a free ride? a 5 patient CG might be able to do one or two light users that are sick for free a month, but they gotta pay the bills too.

 

remember the smoke is free from every CG anyways as much as you want 2.5 oz at a time......it's the CG time and supplies you are paying for not the free smoke.

 

hope I didn't come off as a donkey but this one guy last year told me his patient called the state of MI on him for "charging too much"! I was on downstates CL and seen a caretaker special for 2 ounces going for $750!!!! Thats a little over board, around here it's $200-300 but around 250 most times for one.

Smokey, you are not a donkey. I know it's not easy, I'm just frustrated at the sad stories I'm seeing. If a cg can't handle it, they should quit. Many don't know what's involved till it's too late. When I first came here I talked to some growers, I spoke to a grower or 2 personally, too, I read about the costs and work. I thought it worked out in such a way that it'd not be an inconvenience to offer free services to someone, I never said to offer it to ALL 5 PATIENTS. I'm tired, I didn't expect this, but I guess I should've considered that it would happen, that some would take offense, but I'm doing my best to make sure all is fair for everyone. It can't be easy to have an uncooperative pt, I mentioned that I know some pt's are very demanding. They don't understand what goes into it, they need to see how difficult it is,. I'd love to watch the whole process, from all I've read, it is very hard work, but also very rewarding. I wish I could do it but my luck with plants isn't good and I couldn't do it anyway, not where I live and not with my income. I got lucky in my situation, I wish they cold all be that way. There's 2 sides to every situation, each needs to consider the other and work together, that's basically all I'm saying.

 

Once someone realizes the costs, then they can know how much they can ask for and how much they can offer freely. This would require experience, having a successful crop, then seeing the expenses. If I were a cg, I'd take on ONE pt that couldn't pay, so I could be sure I could handle it, but that would be AFTER doing some research and talking with others, to first make sure I could even handle that one pt. I'd talk with that pt and find out their needs, then find out how well that strain grows, what the yield would be, etc. When I first came here, I chatted with bubblegrower and asked lots of questions, he said he wished others would do that first before jumping into it. I realized I couldn't do it. The best way to handle any investment is to PLAN AHEAD. That would involve talking with everyone involved, so there's an idea of how much will be needed to get started, plus expenses, including electric bills, nutes, etc. There are other options I'd like to see allowed, in case of crop failure, like having a backup cg. No one knows from seed to harvest, how each will work out, even experienced growers, from what I understand, can be prone to crop failure. This is the way it goes for anyone growing anything.

 

Sincerely, Sb

[+Silverblue]

CedarSpringsCG, Goood points. Thanks for sharing them. The main idea of all this, to me is, it has to be fair to both sides. - Sb

 

Yeah, the horror PT stories are just as bad as the horror CG stories. However I think PT's are more apt to post them because they want pity, they really have nothing to lose, but a CG that comes on and complains could be labeled as a bad CG, even if it were the PT completely in the wrong.

 

I have a long horror story about a PT, but I won't bore you here with it, point is even if it is family, your twin brother, you should have a contract that covers both sides, not just what a CG will do for the patient, but what is expected of the patient. Like I have a rule, no 2 am calls demanding meds within the hour. No calls period between 8 am and 6 pm M-F. If you want delivery, I need 1 day notice at least. I am very strict in my contracts, and then very giving in reality, because I know if you will agree to what I put in the contract, I can over deliver and the PT will never have reason to be upset.

 

So, ANY contract between a CG and PT should state it all, methods and times of proper communication, how it is delivered (pre-rolled, zips, medibles), expected quantities(not a hard set guarantee, just what is expected, and this part can be amended anytime), price for service, and also list the CG responsibilities like how long from a PT call to a response, no mold, what types of pesticides are OK, who owns the plants if you terminate, proper method of termination.

 

List out everything, for both sides.

 

As much as everyone wants it to be that being a CG is just fun, it is not, there is a work aspect to it, and if you have it all hammered out, then you can get to the relaxing part. And trust me, you need a contract even if it is your brother. If you expect payment for service at all, you need a contract. I'd recommend a contract even if your service was free.

 

Cedar

[CedarSpringsCG]

SB, those who have chatted with you know your heart is in the right place. The problem is patients come on here and complain all the time, and the CG is always the one who is blamed. If a CG comes on here and complains, they are told they are worthless as a CG and that they must be bad at what they do. I don't post any of my troubles on here, just my views because of this.

 

So I know a lot of CG's are frustrated with how they are treated. PT's have a place to vent about bad caregivers, but CG's have no where to vent about bad PT's. I had a bad PT experience, really bad, and you have no idea how many times I have typed it out on this message board and deleted it before posting. I even did it in this thread.

 

I know the perception is that CG's are bad, and that they are all taking advantage of every PT they can, but that isn't the case. Me for example, I don't like doing things free, as no one is doing stuff for me free, but there is compassion, and freebies/samples, and making sure my bags are always on the heavy side. And I can become really generous once I know all of my bills were paid that month.

 

But, if I had a 2 PTs that I signed up free, figuring that the other 3 PT's would cover my bills, and then I lose 2 of the paying PT's because they started growing themselves, or moved or whatever. Now I have 1 paying PT that isn't going to nearly cover the cost of growing for the other free PT's. So do I at that point get blasted online about how I backed out of my deal with the free PT's and I am not providing them how I promised? Or do I charge my paying PT extra, then get blasted on here about how I didn't follow the contract? Either way I lose. Either way someone has a "Bad CG" experience to post online.

 

Now, if I have a contract stating how much my PT is paying per oz, and they call me up and say, hey I am short this month, but in bad shape, can you hook me up? I can do that, its my generosity and compassion, but it isn't required or expected of me. I can also make sure that I am not putting myself or my family in bad shape to help out a friend. That's one thing I promised my wife, is that I would always put my family first, CG second when I became a CG.

 

And the worst problem is, if we start a good CG thread, a shout out to stories of how a CG is going above and beyond, then all of the PT's will get jealous that their CG isn't doing that for them. It's a losing situation for CG's no matter what. No place to vent, and all the PT's that don't have a good CG hate all of us. And any good story about us, becomes expected from ALL of us.

 

Don't take this as an attack, it isn't. Just trying to explain my point of view, and maybe why you felt some hostility in the other posts.

 

Cedar

[+Silverblue]

SB, those who have chatted with you know your heart is in the right place. The problem is patients come on here and complain all the time, and the CG is always the one who is blamed. If a CG comes on here and complains, they are told they are worthless as a CG and that they must be bad at what they do. I don't post any of my troubles on here, just my views because of this.

 

So I know a lot of CG's are frustrated with how they are treated. PT's have a place to vent about bad caregivers, but CG's have no where to vent about bad PT's. I had a bad PT experience, really bad, and you have no idea how many times I have typed it out on this message board and deleted it before posting. I even did it in this thread.

 

I know the perception is that CG's are bad, and that they are all taking advantage of every PT they can, but that isn't the case. Me for example, I don't like doing things free, as no one is doing stuff for me free, but there is compassion, and freebies/samples, and making sure my bags are always on the heavy side. And I can become really generous once I know all of my bills were paid that month.

 

But, if I had a 2 PTs that I signed up free, figuring that the other 3 PT's would cover my bills, and then I lose 2 of the paying PT's because they started growing themselves, or moved or whatever. Now I have 1 paying PT that isn't going to nearly cover the cost of growing for the other free PT's. So do I at that point get blasted online about how I backed out of my deal with the free PT's and I am not providing them how I promised? Or do I charge my paying PT extra, then get blasted on here about how I didn't follow the contract? Either way I lose. Either way someone has a "Bad CG" experience to post online.

 

Now, if I have a contract stating how much my PT is paying per oz, and they call me up and say, hey I am short this month, but in bad shape, can you hook me up? I can do that, its my generosity and compassion, but it isn't required or expected of me. I can also make sure that I am not putting myself or my family in bad shape to help out a friend. That's one thing I promised my wife, is that I would always put my family first, CG second when I became a CG.

 

And the worst problem is, if we start a good CG thread, a shout out to stories of how a CG is going above and beyond, then all of the PT's will get jealous that their CG isn't doing that for them. It's a losing situation for CG's no matter what. No place to vent, and all the PT's that don't have a good CG hate all of us. And any good story about us, becomes expected from ALL of us.

 

Don't take this as an attack, it isn't. Just trying to explain my point of view, and maybe why you felt some hostility in the other posts.

 

Cedar

Hi, thank you for explaining, and thanks for the compliment. I felt most the heat from Willy, as if I were attacking him personally, though I was not. I never said all cg's are bad and I know not all pt's are good. I think what would solve a lot of these problems is when someone's new to a situation, instead of jumping in with both feet first, to check it out first, find someone to talk to, come to a forum and read a little. I did that before joining here. Forums like these are very educational and were quite an eye opener for me.

 

I Love this community very much, though at times it frustrates me, but any group who's as passionate as we all are about our medicine, is bound to have some conflicts. We're human, it's life. I get sensitive because I'm so passionate. It's one of my biggest faults. I'm far from perfect, I've said things I regretted and have apologized for, so I'm not judging anyone. Because I'm also very humble, I'm willing to admit my mistakes, apologize, fix any damage, and accept others' explanations, etc. There's a lot I don't know, but I do know how much I want to see this community be Strong and be Free to use MM as the voters intended.

 

I still believe in what I said about having a standard agreement, which could be amended, and an oversight/grievance committee so if there is a complaint, someone can investigate it for validity. How all this should be done, I don't know. I'm just a "creative consultant" kinda person, I have ideas but don't always know how to work through the details of putting it all together and carrying the ideas out into reality. If I had others to work with who could help fill in the gaps and offer insight into aspects of a situation that I may be unaware of, I know I could work out something that's agreeable to both sides. If people want to create their own written contracts, that'd be OK as long as it works for everyone involved. The committee idea is something I stand strongly behind, I truly believe it could solve a lot of problems. The big stumbling block in my idea is how to implement it; who investigates, who makes sure the report is accurate, who does the negotiating, etc.

A cg has as much right to complain as a pt. Each has to have realistic expectations. You brought up a very valid point about being stuck if a paying cg starts growing for themselves, among other issues. I really appreciate the input, there are things I am not aware of and need to understand. This also should help other pt's realize all their cg has to do to ensure a successful harvest, and and uninterrupted supply of quality meds.

 

Sincerely, Sb