Card Mills (No Records Needed; Pre-Signed Certs, Often No Dr On Site)

[+Silverblue]

Because most primary drs are unwilling, or not allowed to write an MM recommendation for their patients, most pt's are forced to go to what we've defined as "Card Mills." This is a direct result of having such a huge number of drs working against MM and patients.

 

First I will explain the situation as I understand it, and share my experience, then explain what details I'd like to see in the reports to be posted here on these clinics.

 

There are legitimate places where drs do the certs. Somehow we need to make that distinction, because our so-called reps only see that they are all the same- BAD. They have to be shown the difference. These card mills all have particular characteristics that separate them from the others. In order to list them we need to know what to look for. This list will be compiled to warn people where not to go. It may be convenient and inexpensive, but in the long run, it could cost you your freedom.

 

There are some good drs who work at these clinics but they could end up hurting their careers as well as the pts.

 

The following is what to look for. (If I've left out a detail or got something wrong, please correct me. Thanks!)

 

LOCATION: The clinic is in a hotel. The people running this clinic hold many such events throughout the state.

 

SETUP: It's almost like an assembly line. First stop, a table with info and applications. A "facilitator" is there to help people fill them out, if needed. The facilitator works with the clinic to set up the events. This person might be compensated for the help. The one I met declined payment and negotiated a few free certs; sometimes there's also a few discounted fee certs. The facilitator I met was allowed to choose who would get them. The apps go to another table and you wait till your name is called.

 

Everyone is in the same room, there's no separate area for the dr and pt to talk, not even a curtain. Nearby tables have info related to the MM program, another might be designated for the completed apps waiting for the dr, another has an assistant who processes the completed apps, (copies them for the pt after seeing the dr.)

 

SEEING THE DR: Each "visit" lasts about 5 minutes, if longer, it's not by much. There's no examination or appointment to set one up; the dr might ask some questions while readng your app, sign it, and send you to the table for processing. I tested the dr, to see if he even knew what conditions the law approves of. He seemed to know.

 

REQUIREMENTS:

 

NO MEDICAL RECORDS NEEDED: Some clinics advertise a "no records required" policy. While this may be good for the pt's who really need this medicine, who really do qualify but have no records, it leaves too much room for abuse. Many pt's are too poor to afford insurance, and cannot see a dr often enough to establish a solid dr/pt relationship. These pt's are desperate, and have a legitimate case. A dr who allows this may be compassionate, but could likely get into legal trouble. Most just want the money.

 

PRE-SIGNED CERTS: Some clinics get the apps signed ahead of time. When this happens, there's no dr on site, whoever sees the pt is not a dr, nurse, or dr's assistant.

 

PAYMENT: The money has to be paid in full. If checks, debit or credit is allowed, which I doubt, but I think cash is the only payment allowed. The fee is usually $200 or more. There is no refund. It's possible some places demand the money before going through the certification process, and if not approved, there's still no refund. I was told there was no charge for a denial at the place I called.

 

Personal Comments:

 

I got a free cert. The people running the clinic, including the dr, gave me the creeps, especially the person who seemed to be in charge. I felt as if they were just going through the motions and pretending to care. There was something missing, it was almost like a dream, where I was in some strange movie. Something was missing, it didn't feel right. Follow your intuition on this, if it feels wrong, don't do it. So why did I do it despite how I felt? Because I knew there was no other dr who'd certify me that I could travel a short distance to, the cert was free, the location was convenient for a disabled pt like me. Another place had a "no records required" setup and I could've gotten a free cert because I knew the facilitator there, too, but I had already planned to use this clinic. The other was in a hydroponics shop, the dr may've helped the owner with expenses, in exchange for using the space. Later on I learned that the clinic I used also had a "no records needed" allowance.

 

Legal Concerns: With so much bad press and restrictive bills being set against us, we need to reconsider our options- do we compromise convenience for possible loss of freedom? I had medical records, so I felt they'd protect me, although I had no solid dr/pt relationship. Legally speaking, I could've had trouble if I got entangled with leo and the courts especially. Uncaring prosecutors and judges have made a BIG issue of the dr/pt relationship, disregarding the fact that many specialists, as well as primary care drs only see a pt for a very short time; specialists may see someone only once, yet their care is recognized and accepted as being legitimate, or, "boni-fide."

 

If a dr gets in trouble for doing a cert, or does something wrong in the certification process, or does something that causes them to be disciplined in some way, the pt may also get in trouble. Often, nothing happens to the dr.. Drs have documented histories of any actions taken against them, including if they had to pay a fine, had their license suspended or revoked, or some other action against them. I call them "Bad drs." These people see hundreds pf pts in a very short time, and make a LOT of money very quickly. Many have set up their practices exclusively to do the certifications. It's quick, easy money. Awhile after I went, I learned the drs there had marks on their records. I was deeply ashamed, and felt I betrayed this community for even going there. Prior to my visit, I saw some posts warning about this clinic, but they got deleted for some reason and I wasn't sure if the one I was going to was mentioned.

 

Card Mill drs do not stay in touch with the pt, there's no follow-up, no monitoring, they will never see that person again unless the person wants a renewal and goes back there. These drs will not be willing to testify in court on behalf of their pt to help prove that recommendation was given legitimately. I was assured by the owner of the business that the dr I saw would back me up but I didn't believe it and hoped I'd never have to test that. I'll never go there again.

 

GOOD CLINICS: There are some legitimate places that distinguish themselves from the hotel clinics, these places are called "Certification Centers." They have good drs, some also have advisers on hand to help the pt through the process, one place I heard of even offers a free session with a lawyer. I think I know who they are and who he is. to them!

 

THE DETAILS FOR THE LIST:

 

Do they require records, do they have pre-signed certs, is their a dr on site or not; is there anything else that seems wrong, unusual, or suspicious? Also, list whether the dr has a mark on their record, (was disciplined for wrongdoing). There will be a link posted for looking up that info.

 

Thanks for helping our community uncover the bad clinics, and separate them from the legitimate ones. I know it'd be difficult to resist using the bad clinics, but in the long run, finding a dr who WILL monitor your progress, stand behind you in court, and do followups will save you a lot of problems, expenses, and possibly your freedom. It may cost more, so you'll have to save or borrow the money. Is your freedom worth any inconvenience? Is the extra trouble worth it, to know your dr will be there for you, you'll have a solid case in a legal mess, and have a much lesser chance of getting a bad dr.

 

Our opponents caused this problem, it seems to be up to us to fix it.

 

Soon I will list the name of the clinic I know of, the dr's names, and other info, if no one beats me to it.

 

Sincerely, Sb

[+Silverblue]

It took me about an hour and a half to write all that, including editing, so I'm very tired. I hope this helps someone avoid the pitfalls they may be walking into. Let's help each other, maybe there's someone who could help with expenses, many good cg's will help a poor pat and also help with paperwork, some even provide transportation. Please consider finding a better place to get your certs, even if you've used a bad clinic before. I'm not renewing, or I'd consider going to the one in Southfield. I was planning on going there when I first considered applying. At that time, there were hardly any places that did the certs, and as far as I knew, there was no traveling hotel clinics.

 

Sincerely, Sb

[tooldini]

thanks alot for the info I hope it helps someone new.

[phaquetoo]

you said "Soon I will list the name of the clinic I know of, the dr's names, and other info, if no one beats me to it.

 

Sincerely, Sb"

 

 

how come ya just dont mention the clinics name? if you feel so bad about it and took the time to write all this info,,,why not give the name!

does the free cert have something to do with it? or are you waiting for permision from the mill to give their name!

 

I dont beleive the pt will get into any trouble if a bad dr. gets caught writing certs,,I beleive the dr. will be sanctioned and the pt will need a new dr. to get renewed,,how can a pt that qualifys get into trouble? If the dr. doesnt come to court to back your cert up,,um thats not your fault (the pt) its dr.'s fault,,,he or she will be the one in contempt of court if they dont show up to help you,,, but best you ;stay in the law and not wind up in court,,dont ya think?

 

If you as a pt break the rules of the mm law you will lose your card rights...not if your dr. is a bad dr!

 

I personaly would not give up names of any dr.'s or mills,,we all know who they are,,look in your news paper they run and add in it every day or week depending on your local paper( i get mine once a week) $100 certs no records,,,,um obviously you would want to avoid that one,,,unless of course your dr. wont write you a certt eh?

 

I have been saying it is bad dr.'s and dispensary's that have caused this problem from the beginning,,,hmmmm some one must be listening? or finaly opening their eye's!

 

It may take these card mills to get our reg family dr's to finaly get off of big pharm and write our certs for us(mine does)

 

I thank you for your very well written post and info! s.b you kinda contradict yourself here,,your not renewing? are you going to stop using mm for your meds? Im sorry but if i did not have the dr. i have,,,I most def would go to a mill for renewel,,I will never get back on opoids again,,id much rather have a bad dr. write my cert than go thru the withdraw and addiction again! JMHO

 

Peace

Jim

[CherryCrush]

Can i recommend that offending physicians be given the chance to come into compliance with community standards and generally accepted National Standards before being publicly disgraced for their substandard procedures?

 

I would recommend sending or giving these physicians, and for that matter, all physicians, the Cannabis Patients United Position Paper on Bona Fide Relationships:

 

http://cannabispatientsunited.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/bonafidecompletedforweb.pdf

[garyfisher]

Can i recommend that offending physicians be given the chance to come into compliance with community standards and generally accepted National Standards before being publicly disgraced for their substandard procedures?

 

I would recommend sending or giving these physicians, and for that matter, all physicians, the Cannabis Patients United Position Paper on Bona Fide Relationships:

 

http://cannabispatie...letedforweb.pdf

 

Why? They are educated people. I'm sure the bad doctors know exactly what they are doing.

 

Law enforcement doesn't give a patient or caregiver a chance to come into compliance with the MMMA if they are slightly outside of it. (forget to lock door, having 1 extra plant, etc..)

 

These doctors need to be called out.

Edited August 1, 2011 by garyfisher

[CherryCrush]

Why? They are educated people. I'm sure the bad doctors know exactly what they are doing.

 

Law enforcement doesn't give a patient or caregiver a chance to come into compliance with the MMMA if they are slightly outside of it. (forget to lock door, having 1 extra plant, etc..)

 

These doctors need to be called out.

 

Because we are better than Law Enforcement?

 

I would much rather ask them to come into basic compliance with basic standards before seeking other avenues of punishment.

 

Seems like the adult thing to do.

 

Resolve the problem sensibly rather than act in the manner of a temper tantrum.

 

We have used this approach with several physicians and they have taken the initiative to bring their practice into court acceptable definition.

 

These no physician clinics need to be run out of town though. That i do support.

[MightyMightyMezz]

you said "Soon I will list the name of the clinic I know of, the dr's names, and other info, if no one beats me to it.

 

Sincerely, Sb"

 

 

how come ya just dont mention the clinics name? if you feel so bad about it and took the time to write all this info,,,why not give the name!

does the free cert have something to do with it? or are you waiting for permision from the mill to give their name!

 

I dont beleive the pt will get into any trouble if a bad dr. gets caught writing certs,,I beleive the dr. will be sanctioned and the pt will need a new dr. to get renewed,,how can a pt that qualifys get into trouble? If the dr. doesnt come to court to back your cert up,,um thats not your fault (the pt) its dr.'s fault,,,he or she will be the one in contempt of court if they dont show up to help you,,, but best you ;stay in the law and not wind up in court,,dont ya think?

 

If you as a pt break the rules of the mm law you will lose your card rights...not if your dr. is a bad dr!

 

I personaly would not give up names of any dr.'s or mills,,we all know who they are,,look in your news paper they run and add in it every day or week depending on your local paper( i get mine once a week) $100 certs no records,,,,um obviously you would want to avoid that one,,,unless of course your dr. wont write you a certt eh?

 

I have been saying it is bad dr.'s and dispensary's that have caused this problem from the beginning,,,hmmmm some one must be listening? or finaly opening their eye's!

 

It may take these card mills to get our reg family dr's to finaly get off of big pharm and write our certs for us(mine does)

 

I thank you for your very well written post and info! s.b you kinda contradict yourself here,,your not renewing? are you going to stop using mm for your meds? Im sorry but if i did not have the dr. i have,,,I most def would go to a mill for renewel,,I will never get back on opoids again,,id much rather have a bad dr. write my cert than go thru the withdraw and addiction again! JMHO

 

Peace

Jim

 

I agree with this post.

[Guest Happy Guy]

Can i recommend that offending physicians be given the chance to come into compliance with community standards and generally accepted National Standards before being publicly disgraced for their substandard procedures?

 

I would recommend sending or giving these physicians, and for that matter, all physicians, the Cannabis Patients United Position Paper on Bona Fide Relationships:

 

http://cannabispatientsunited.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/bonafidecompletedforweb.pdf

Good approach.

 

We had a 'new doctor' on here a week ago.

 

He started out ok.

 

He talked a little with Dr. Bob in posts.

 

Then he said he wanted to certify patients and recommend where they get their meds. OOPS!

 

A doctor can't 'help you' find your meds.

 

I explained to the doctor that with cannabis still being schedule 1 he can't legally do that.

 

I must have said it just right because he didn't get mad. He thanked me and seemed like he understood.

 

A few well thought out words can save a lot of trouble and maybe add someone on the positive side of our movement when they could have been heading in the wrong direction. We need as many good doctors as we can get. Some doctors might be just ignorant to some specifics. Help them out!

[jhaz]

doesn't seem like putting clinics out there over 1 persons dealings is fair,if some or many of these clinics have had no issues with the law why put there business out there? seems a list would only be helping compile everything for the ones that want to take away our rights

[+Dizledot]

you said "Soon I will list the name of the clinic I know of, the dr's names, and other info, if no one beats me to it.

 

Sincerely, Sb"

I

 

 

how come ya just dont mention the clinics name? if you feel so bad about it and took the time to write all this info,,,why not give the name!

does the free cert have something to do with it? or are you waiting for permision from the mill to give their name!

 

I dont beleive the pt will get into any trouble if a bad dr. gets caught writing certs,,I beleive the dr. will be sanctioned and the pt will need a new dr. to get renewed,,how can a pt that qualifys get into trouble? If the dr. doesnt come to court to back your cert up,,um thats not your fault (the pt) its dr.'s fault,,,he or she will be the one in contempt of court if they dont show up to help you,,, but best you ;stay in the law and not wind up in court,,dont ya think?

 

If you as a pt break the rules of the mm law you will lose your card rights...not if your dr. is a bad dr!

 

I personaly would not give up names of any dr.'s or mills,,we all know who they are,,look in your news paper they run and add in it every day or week depending on your local paper( i get mine once a week) $100 certs no records,,,,um obviously you would want to avoid that one,,,unless of course your dr. wont write you a certt eh?

 

I have been saying it is bad dr.'s and dispensary's that have caused this problem from the beginning,,,hmmmm some one must be listening? or finaly opening their eye's!

 

It may take these card mills to get our reg family dr's to finaly get off of big pharm and write our certs for us(mine does)

 

I thank you for your very well written post and info! s.b you kinda contradict yourself here,,your not renewing? are you going to stop using mm for your meds? Im sorry but if i did not have the dr. i have,,,I most def would go to a mill for renewel,,I will never get back on opoids again,,id much rather have a bad dr. write my cert than go thru the withdraw and addiction again! JMHO

 

Peace

Jim

 

Don't want to start a pissing match here but there are no doctors/ clinics in the Downriver area. I have 3 patients who cannot travel, won't skype, and will not trust people coming into their homes (aka house calls). What other choice do they have without the compilation of a list of all docs who do certs. Good bad or indifferent there are those who have no choice, no PC doc etc. I believe the doc who certifies bears some responsibility for his choice of records or no records. I have asked that we compile a complete list of docs but have not had that happen. We have gone to a paid advertising only policy which may or may not prohibit us from spreading the word about the rest of the docs. It's not good to place limitations like this when so many are looking for solid information on who see. No offense to Doc Bob, but we are not helping the cause when we have censored ourselves to the point where we have only 1 active doctor representing us right now. I thought the mission was to bring us together not seperate us because ones views may differ from the others....perhaps I'm wrong and I do understand the reasons for paid advertising but we need everyone to feel comfortable here in spite of their personal preferences or choice of doctor.

[Guest Happy Guy]

doesn't seem like putting clinics out there over 1 persons dealings is fair,if some or many of these clinics have had no issues with the law why put there business out there? seems a list would only be helping compile everything for the ones that want to take away our rights

Right. We are better off just educating patients for what to look for and what to avoid. We do what we can and then let LEO do their job and take the bad ones down on their own. Just like with dispensaries. We aren't the cops. All we can do is help point the way for patients so they are not ignorant to what is going on. When a patient hears they are going to get a free cert and free meds it's hard to get them to listen. Maybe if they hear it's wrong first before they get the sales pitch they might be more receptive.

[Guest Happy Guy]

Don't want to start a pissing match here but there are no doctors/ clinics in the Downriver area. I have 3 patients who cannot travel, won't skype, and will not trust people coming into their homes (aka house calls). What other choice do they have without the compilation of a list of all docs who do certs. Good bad or indifferent there are those who have no choice, no PC doc etc. I believe the doc who certifies bears some responsibility for his choice of records or no records. I have asked that we compile a complete list of docs but have not had that happen. We have gone to a paid advertising only policy which may or may not prohibit us from spreading the word about the rest of the docs. It's not good to place limitations like this when so many are looking for solid information on who see. No offense to Doc Bob, but we are not helping the cause when we have censored ourselves to the point where we have only 1 active doctor representing us right now. I thought the mission was to bring us together not seperate us because ones views may differ from the others....perhaps I'm wrong and I do understand the reasons for paid advertising but we need everyone to feel comfortable here in spite of their personal preferences or choice of doctor.

Easy fix. Just GOOGLE medical marijuana doctors michigan It's so easy. In ten seconds I got a dozen Michigan Cannabis Specialist Doctors. Not a problem....

[+EdwardGlen]

All card mills should be closed ASAP! All they are doing is flooding the streets with non-qualifying straw patients who are and will abuse the law and bring the shite down us legitimate patients and caregivers.

 

Schuette is culpable for all card mill patients getting a card! His office and all of Lansing for that fact, have been made aware of and knew about these illegal non-guideline following criminals in white coats but continue to let them operate illegally.

 

This idea of warning them is a joke! Pull their medical licenses and throw them in jail!

 

The parking lot of a certain dispo on Dequindre is a great place for anyone to buy pot. Three young guys 18-22 from that area of Warren have paid for their friends to go to a card mill and now are growing for three straw patients.

 

And who will be blamed and suffer when they are busted? EVERY SINGLE LEGITIMATE PATIENT AND CAREGIVER!

[+Dizledot]

Easy fix. Just GOOGLE medical marijuana doctors michigan It's so easy. In ten seconds I got a dozen Michigan Cannabis Specialist Doctors. Not a problem....

 

They did Google and so did I.....only if the clinic has a web site do they show up, there really is no directory of clinics in the Downriver area. This has been an issue since the law came into effect. I only wish it was that simple. I still think the organizations who are fighting to keep out law intact could have some small role in getting the word out there where these clinics are. Some of these places are very apprehensive about extensive advertising with all the LEO's going after anything they can right now as well as local officials that oppose will attempt to shut them down if they openly advertise. I know this for a fact and the small Hydro store who just opened up in my community (I'm a local government official) will only put their signs out on the weekend when the municipal offices are closed. Many of these communities have adopted the Federal laws as opposed to the state law and are looking for any reason to shut us down. It's only a matter of time before they go after the hydro store here and give them so much grief they shut down. Same for clinics, I've already sat in on those discussions and attempted to reason with them, one lone voice cannot save the clinics and hydro shops here.

 

Let me clarify myself, I don't think card mills are good but there is not alternative for some seriously ill patients who have been doing without proper medical care for years. Yes there are straw patients now but how many were legitimate patients that had no other choice? Where do they go if they cannot afford to get the proper documentation ( at least three chart notes on the qualifying condition) and the "non card mills" require you to come back and pay for the three visits before they give the recommendation? You are all right it's the Bozo's who just pass out the certs that have cause some issues as well as those who have assumed they can open dispensaries , etc. I'm not disagreeing with anyone here.

 

 

 

Edited August 1, 2011 by Dizledot

[Guest Happy Guy]

They did Google and so did I.....only if the clinic has a web site do they show up, there really is no directory of clinics in the Downriver area. This has been an issue since the law came into effect. I only wish it was that simple. I still think the organizations who are fighting to keep out law intact could have some small role in getting the word out there where these clinics are. Some of these places are very apprehensive about extensive advertising with all the LEO's going after anything they can right now as well as local officials that oppose will attempt to shut them down if they openly advertise. I know this for a fact and the small Hydro store who just opened up in my community (I'm a local government official) will only put their signs out on the weekend when the municipal offices are closed. Many of these communities have adopted the Federal laws as opposed to the state law and are looking for any reason to shut us down. It's only a matter of time before they go after the hydro store here and give them so much grief they shut down. Same for clinics, I've already sat in on those discussions and attempted to reason with them, one lone voice cannot save the clinics and hydro shops here.

You are about 30 miles from the biggest, best, and best connected cannabis specialists in the UNITED STATES. 30 miles! I have driven for hours to get there more than once. You are lucky enough to be only 30 miles from them and at the same time make it sound like you are deprived of a good specialist in your area.

[Dr. Bob]

I don't agree with all the criteria set out by SB as an example of a mill. There are some of those things I do, but the bottom line every patient I see (and I actually see them) has medical records that I review, and I not only do follow up, I keep up with the rulings to make sure a chart is defensible. I spend as much time with each patient as necessary to make sure they are qualified and all their questions are answered. I am also available during the entire year and patients not only have my website when they leave, but my skype and personal cell number as well.

 

But overall, the basic uncomfortable 'something isn't right' feeling folks get from mills is the best criteria to use. Lack of a doctor or no need for medical records is a sure sign and should be avoided. These doctors that don't use basic standards of medical practice (records, visit, follow up) know exactly what they are doing. Everyone knows the local 'pill doctor' in town, these are the same types. You can try and educate them, but when the secretary is running the show, not the doctor, you are in a circus and a mill.

 

Dr. Bob

[+Dizledot]

You are about 30 miles from the biggest, best, and best connected cannabis specialists in the UNITED STATES. 30 miles! I have driven for hours to get there more than once. You are lucky enough to be only 30 miles from them and at the same time make it sound like you are deprived of a good specialist in your area.

For me no problem, for my patients that can't travel huge problem. I have 3 terminal cancer and 2 completely unable to travel. The most all of them can take is a few minutes from home. They certified about 30 minutes from here but refuse to endure the pain of traveling again for re cert. I'm looking for them and I have paid out of my own pocket their fees when they can't. It's just not right to make the seriously ill travel like this for certification, as I said they won't skype either, far to set in their ways.

[Dr. Bob]

You are about 30 miles from the biggest, best, and best connected cannabis specialists in the UNITED STATES. 30 miles! I have driven for hours to get there more than once. You are lucky enough to be only 30 miles from them and at the same time make it sound like you are deprived of a good specialist in your area.

 

Just out of curiosity. You can drive 30 miles and get a good cert from THCF or Dr. Bix, I can skype you at home or from the grow shop if we make arrangement, but from the tone of the post, it seems you don't want to do either. Are you requesting I or someone else just sign a cert and send it to them? If not, I would be happy to help with a telemedicine clinic or if you want to forward the grow shop contact to me I can try and make arrangement with them?

 

Dr. Bob

[Guest Happy Guy]

For me no problem, for my patients that can't travel huge problem. I have 3 terminal cancer and 2 completely unable to travel. The most all of them can take is a few minutes from home. They certified about 30 minutes from here but refuse to endure the pain of traveling again for re cert. I'm looking for them and I have paid out of my own pocket their fees when they can't. It's just not right to make the seriously ill travel like this for certification, as I said they won't skype either, far to set in their ways.

I'm sure these patients have trouble with all of their medical care. I'm very sorry to hear that. But 30 minutes travel once a year isn't very bad for most patients. Again, sorry to hear about those that can't travel 30 minutes. I don't think a list of clinics on this web site is going to help them much either though. You could ask THCF if one of their doctors could make a house call. You would think that if they are terminal the diagnosis would be quite clear and the examination would mostly be for the safety of the patient.

[+kurt klaas]

It is a noble ideal to shut down the card mills. I support this ideal. But I am also realistic about the main factor fueling this problem. The real problem is not doctors seeking to make a quick buck but recreational users seeking cover for cultivation, personal use and often profit. Certification mills are another manifestation of the failure of the war on drugs. As long as there are people creating a demand for certification mills, they will continue to exist. Doctors who run such mills are simply a symptom of the problem. I am not saying the effort proposed here is a waiste of time. However, it seems to me that only punitive state level action against such doctors will have any real chance of reducing the mills. And that kind of action might require citizens bringing complaints against the mills or legal actions of some sort.

 

It in fact might be true that abuse of the current system could bring the whole current system crashing down, replaced with some kind of state regulated cultivation program. If so, this development will be the result of the failed effort of the war on drugs, which has totally failed to eradicate the demand driving recreational drug use. It is unrealistic to think the mmj community can have significant success against recreational use. These are the hard, unpleasant facts.

 

Still, I support whatever efforts the MMJ community undertakes to keep the movement as pure as possible. But we all know that it is reaaly pretty much impossible to separate medical use from recreational use in the mmj community. The two overlap in a way that can never be eliminated. At least, that has become obvious to me in the last year.

 

Keep up the good work.

 

Kurt

[+Dizledot]

Just out of curiosity. You can drive 30 miles and get a good cert from THCF or Dr. Bix, I can skype you at home or from the grow shop if we make arrangement, but from the tone of the post, it seems you don't want to do either. Are you requesting I or someone else just sign a cert and send it to them? If not, I would be happy to help with a telemedicine clinic or if you want to forward the grow shop contact to me I can try and make arrangement with them?

 

Dr. Bob

 

No, not looking for someone to just sign the cert at all. I am seriously seeking someone in the area closer to home for them. They are sick and not always easy to deal with, much older and will not skype but will see a doc close to home. There is really no doc down in this area that isn't considered a card mill. I was only trying to point that out of need or whatever the reason may be that all card mill patients are not straw patients. I personally know seriously ill qualifying patients in this area who resorted to card mills due to no health insurance, lack of medical records etc. There is a serious need for a legitimate clinic in this area of the state....or at least a list of legitimate docs who do certs down here.

[Dr. Bob]

No, not looking for someone to just sign the cert at all. I am seriously seeking someone in the area closer to home for them. They are sick and not always easy to deal with, much older and will not skype but will see a doc close to home. There is really no doc down in this area that isn't considered a card mill. I was only trying to point that out of need or whatever the reason may be that all card mill patients are not straw patients. I personally know seriously ill qualifying patients in this area who resorted to card mills due to no health insurance, lack of medical records etc. There is a serious need for a legitimate clinic in this area of the state....or at least a list of legitimate docs who do certs down here.

 

I will do telemedicine there. Why don't you be the facilitator? That way the patients are not dealing with a stranger.

 

Dr. Bob

[+Dizledot]

I will do telemedicine there. Why don't you be the facilitator? That way the patients are not dealing with a stranger.

 

Dr. Bob

 

Let me see what I can do, or should I say what I can convince them to do....some days are quite a challenge when working with those who don't feel well. I have one who is in need of re certification as we speak.

 

Thanks Dizz

 

PS.. will let you know, but some days if the wind changes direction so does their decisions.

 

 

 

[purklize]

I went to a clinic that required records myself. Fortunately, I used to have health insurance when my problems developed, so I had the records already. But people who lack health insurance are often very poor and a couple hundred bucks to create a medical record literally means food that doesn't go on the table. For them, the choice is obvious.