Growing With Led

[Motorbuds]

there was a grow journal for LED's, SARCASM> but it withered and died <SARCASM

 

LMAO!

[BlackMesa]

Watch out for commercial plasma lighting in the future. IMO, and it's just that, will probably be the real future of lighting technology, and that l.e.d. lights are just a stepping stone and will probably become obsolete sometime in the future just like Bluray is taking over the audio and video industry. It could still go either way and it will be awhile yet, as there's still a mixed opinion on the current generation of plasma lights (just like anything else) but I've seen studies that show they consume half the power of any other light currently out there, and they are coming regardless.

There is NO denying that the new generation of l.e.d. lights are MUCH better than the older ones. Being an old stony and soft coral reef guy myself, I can remember going from v.h.o. to h.i.d., then the power compact rage, l.e.d.'s and now seeing results with plasma in the high end range.

Keep us posted, as l.e.d.'s do have the right idea with the PAR lighting being dialed in correctly instead of just lumen and lux intensity.

 

I see you did your homework and have some advanced knowledge of how these lights work! Yes the PAR lighting can be tweaked to perfection and using the old lumen measurement for these lights is not the right approach. I suspect that having near perfect PAR lighting creates a different nutritional uptake by the plants, I witnessed a few grows where different chambers were created in a grow room to test various lights against each other, the panels that had optimum PAR levels were a darker green and seemed more dense and hydrated then the other test plants. Environmental conditions, nutes, soil mix & watering was all identical yet the PAR levels played a huge role in the color of these plants. I concluded to turn a darker shade of green the plant must have been triggered to take in and process more nutes. Interesting stuff!

 

Plasma induction lighting is also interesting and there is much to learn about this new lighting as well. I will put together some links to the most interesting journals that figure out what exactly you need to match or surpass a HID equivalent.

[Shredder]

Darker, more dense, hydrated all sound like a high brix level. For photosynthesis to work right and get high brix levels plants need good light and par measures the usable light, hi brix shows it apparently works.

 

While LED's are worth looking into, I just think it is early to jump on the bandwagon. When i followed the links to look at state of the art lights, most have been revamped numerous times in a short time frame. That tells me it would not be advisable to jump in right now. Two thing have to happen for me to get in. One is consistent high performance on par or better than hid lights, two is for prices to come down, and that won't happen until number one is taken care of. But still it is interesting, especially after all the heat this summer. And i appreciate your thread Blackmesa....Shredder

[garyfisher]

I didn't read this thread. But flowering with LEDs is a bad idea.

[hofner67]

I use an induction lamp, as the led, to supplement the 400 watt hids. Light appears similar to a flouresent. Its low Wattage so its not much of a light. The LED in my case is obviously better.

[BlackMesa]

Darker, more dense, hydrated all sound like a high brix level. For photosynthesis to work right and get high brix levels plants need good light and par measures the usable light, hi brix shows it apparently works. While LED's are worth looking into, I just think it is early to jump on the bandwagon. When i followed the links to look at state of the art lights, most have been revamped numerous times in a short time frame. That tells me it would not be advisable to jump in right now. Two thing have to happen for me to get in. One is consistent high performance on par or better than hid lights, two is for prices to come down, and that won't happen until number one is taken care of. But still it is interesting, especially after all the heat this summer. And i appreciate your thread Blackmesa....Shredder

 

Very interesting information, I made the jump because I liked the performance for the product I was buying, My units had half the initial investment then compatible panels and most importantly I believe in LED technology and want to actively help the growing community by providing first hand experiments and results so growers can better understand what works and how to adapt to growing with these lights. I know what you mean about the revisions and the high price of entry but I don't think this will change all that much because there is a huge lack of technology of optics to spread this light and as new costly upgrades come out, the price won't most likely come down regardless if the diodes and drivers become more common and cheaper. Time will tell... =)

 

I didn't read this thread. But flowering with LEDs is a bad idea.

 

There is always this one post in a LED thread that makes this huge negative claim without providing any sort of argument or information, congratulations your that person in this thread! To counter your broad one liner I present the following:

 

It makes complete sense if your battling heat issues and are in need of a solution.

 

It makes sense if you want a little piece of mind when it comes to fire safety, If any of my fan's fail I still won't generate anything remotely close to causing electrical problems and fires...not even any type of heat stress to the plants. Some don't even use in-lines with LED's.

 

Here is an example of a direct comparison between a 600 watt LED & a 600 watt HPS. For those that don't want to take the time to read the journal, here is the outcome:

 

600 watt LED

total= 546 grams

19.5oz from 4 plants

 

600 hps pulled about 15 oz off 4 plants

Both growers are seasoned and have skills.

 

http://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/300296-irish-boys-glh-600w-led.html

 

I dislike that I feel the need to defend growing with LED's but such a broad negative comment like that deserves to be addressed. I make no claim that growing with LED's is better and to each there own but in now way is flowering with LED's a bad idea unless maybe your a grow supply store that fears not being able to sell bulbs, ballasts, reflectors and cooling equipment :/

[garyfisher]

Thanks. Glad I could be that person. I'll check out the information you posted later this evening.

[hofner67]

ok. I've done it. I just ordered a 180 watt led veg lamp. $230.00 shipped.

 

Probably 60 3 watt leds, for a real wattage of 90.

 

 

Next, planning on building the next one myself with more leds. I've seen some 78 and 100 led kits for about the same price as the 60 I just bought.

 

Will be putting it in a 4X4 Veg tent.

 

If this works, this will be great, as I'll be replacing the most energy intensive portion of the grow. If it works, of course.

[mrd]

I have seen reviews at another site (foreign) that had very good results with leds. But hold on the person got the results with a 600w led and was now moving up into a 1200w led. They also mentioned that some manufactures had so called 3 watt leds that were really a cluster of one wat leds. They said that is not the same as a single 3 w led. I think the lamps might have been donated since the cost of such devices is still very high.

 

I really do not understand why the lighting both led and plasma are not improving even faster. I suspect that Moore's law should apply here. That is the idea that computing pwer is doubling about every 18 months. If that was applicable to these lamps I would think and hope that we would be seeing the price going down and the output going up in the same way you can buy a computer now for 300 dollars that 8 years ago would have cost thousands.

 

Until then I am and we are stuck with these hids which are less than perfect.

[BlackMesa]

ok. I've done it. I just ordered a 180 watt led veg lamp. $230.00 shipped.Probably 60 3 watt leds, for a real wattage of 90.Next, planning on building the next one myself with more leds. I've seen some 78 and 100 led kits for about the same price as the 60 I just bought.Will be putting it in a 4X4 Veg tent.If this works, this will be great, as I'll be replacing the most energy intensive portion of the grow. If it works, of course.

 

Congrats on the LED veg light! You will be impressed with the light if it is running 3 watt led's. I will be starting my LED journal tonight and will link to it here so you can see what my flowering model does when veging and your unit should perform very well because of the high amount of blues. Keep in mind that you will get 4 square feet of strong vegging light max and perhaps an extra couple along the perimeter for clones or seedlings.

 

 

I have seen reviews at another site (foreign) that had very good results with leds. But hold on the person got the results with a 600w led and was now moving up into a 1200w led. They also mentioned that some manufactures had so called 3 watt leds that were really a cluster of one wat leds. They said that is not the same as a single 3 w led. I think the lamps might have been donated since the cost of such devices is still very high.I really do not understand why the lighting both led and plasma are not improving even faster. I suspect that Moore's law should apply here. That is the idea that computing pwer is doubling about every 18 months. If that was applicable to these lamps I would think and hope that we would be seeing the price going down and the output going up in the same way you can buy a computer now for 300 dollars that 8 years ago would have cost thousands. Until then I am and we are stuck with these hids which are less than perfect.

 

Most all 3 watt led's are the real deal these days. I feel that the diodes should spread out farther as the wattage is increased because you don't need huge amounts of this light or you just end up raising the light higher and trade coverage for penetration that's why by using multiple smaller wattage panels vs a large wattage panels will out yield every time. They do need to come down, that's for sure.

[hofner67]

I was thinking two effective 100 watters for the 4x4 tent should work, and heatwise be easier to deal with than a 400 or 200 watt hid. Just thinking.

[BlackMesa]

I have started my official LED grow journal and it's located in the grow journal section of the forums. I look forward to feed back and the exchanging of knowledge! BlackMesa LED Grow Journal

 

@hofner67, If your using 2 panels in that space you will be in great shape! I look forward to your feedback on the lower temps & power bills all while having some extreme node control! Good times!

 

Forgot to mention, I had a conversation with one of the manufacturers that produce Vegetation LED panels and was told that they perform 15-20% better for veging then just using a 6 spectrum flowering model so I look forward to your feedback once you get a hang of your light. I have plans to go that route myself once I am able to get a veg area in place.

[hofner67]

What what would be the color options and ratios suitable for a veg lamp?

 

for example, a 100 (3 watt lamp) running at 150 watts

 

the choices are White, Blue, Red, and UV

 

 

You guys could check these out for fun http://www.aquastyleonline.com/categories/LED-Lighting lots of reefers(aquariums guys) are getting into this and growing good looking corals. I am pretty sure they have 6500K bridgelux leds and they will basically make any kit you want. Prices seem pretty good.

[BlackMesa]

@hofner67 - I can't exactly answer that because there isn't very many deticated LED veg lamps to use as a referance. Here is a link to a fellow grower journal who used a deticated LED veg light and the results are pretty impresive. LED Veg light journal

 

I know 2 other growers who are using the same type of lights as me but in different wattages and configurations so I'll have more data regarding wattage and coverage. 1 is using a 500w (300 watts actual) and the other is using 2 of the 500's together and then I'm using 2 - 240w units that each put out 133-140 watts actual.

[BlackMesa]

What what would be the color options and ratios suitable for a veg lamp?

 

for example, a 100 (3 watt lamp) running at 150 watts

 

the choices are White, Blue, Red, and UV

 

This is a very solid performer LED Veg Light Call them and ask what the ratios are used for this light and apply that to your custom light. I tried looking for the answer but came up short but I do know that the ratio that this light uses is proven to kick butt!

[BlackMesa]

So I got the green light to post some pics of a friends Awesome LED grow! He's regarded as the master of LED growing and has been featured on the High Times site. The pic set below was grown with 180 watt LED panels with 2 plants per panel I believe. He also has multiple well documented grow journals for the sceptics out there. I will also post these in the "Bud Porn" sticky because they deserve it!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There's plenty more but they appear too big to post