Mmj Dispensary Owners To Continue Court Fight

[Ten4GoodBuddys]

The system was better without destructive and counterproductive government intervention by a previous opponent of this who has earned some clout since then.

 

Does double jeopardy apply? Marijuana on ballots again? Seems like its been voted and the states citizens had adjusted to the new laws.

 

And now hundreds of people unemployed and a over restrictive ruling on the commerce of a new market.

 

Do not allow opponents of this healing herb to divide such a just cause. The caregiver and dispensary system are obviously a symbiotic relationship that cannot operate without each other.

 

If they shut down caregivers and left dispensaries open the oppression by tyrants would be the same. Do not fight behind the battle lines and take your energy to the front by fighting any and all accusations that there is a problem with a plainly worded proposition that was approved by 63% of voters.

[Oman]

Dispensaries are a productive part of the whole process. I also agree the system works better when dispensaries are involved and allowed to co-exist with regular patients and caregivers (but not in lieu of them). It is only when standard Caregivers are ignored, criminalized, or otherwise unfairly used or treated within that process, that I personally hold any objections. I think dispensaries are being unfairly treated, as well as the average patient and caregiver. However, I think most average patients' and caregivers' arrests, and the unfair (actually "unlawful") LEO and court dealings they are forced to endure go largely unnoticed due to the attention given by the media to dispensaries and their particular plights. It seems that having pre-paid attorneys on call, and such may be fairing better in court than the poor person trying to use an affirmative defense, particularly when Michigan ranks dead last in fairness of Legal Defense for the poor, as well as in our quite possibly unconstitutional Seizure Laws. This combination even prevents one from securing enough of their own capital to fully fund their own defense when they do secure a good attorney instead of a public defender. I think some folks understandably get a bit jealous that for-profit businesses can garner formidable defense strategies and teams, while patients and caregivers outside the entrepreneurial community seem to be denied defense after defense. Although unfair, it is not the businesses' fault that they have capital. And typically they are charged with some nasty offenses that are generally far overstated and were just being wise in securing defense counsel in advance.

 

I would really encourage folks to support the Beatrice Solomon Patient and Caregiver Protection Resolution that is on the Dems list of Resolutions. This would at least allow for overages to be used by other patients and the caregiver to be compensated in some manner. This seems supportable and do-able compared to more grandiose strategies... even if they sound wonderful, they need to be achievable...

 

 

And without p2p sales where do you propose new patients get their meds while waiting 6 months for their crop to come in? Find an established caregiver? And when there are none? When you need a new caregiver? What then? How will they obtain a clone or a seed? And they will have to wait a decent 6 months for meds... I'm sorry but the system was better with dispensaries than without.

[Natural Remedies MGR]

The system was better without destructive and counterproductive government intervention by a previous opponent of this who has earned some clout since then.

 

Does double jeopardy apply? Marijuana on ballots again? Seems like its been voted and the states citizens had adjusted to the new laws.

 

And now hundreds of people unemployed and a over restrictive ruling on the commerce of a new market.

 

Do not allow opponents of this healing herb to divide such a just cause. The caregiver and dispensary system are obviously a symbiotic relationship that cannot operate without each other.

 

If they shut down caregivers and left dispensaries open the oppression by tyrants would be the same. Do not fight behind the battle lines and take your energy to the front by fighting any and all accusations that there is a problem with a plainly worded proposition that was approved by 63% of voters.

 

 

THIS. +1

[Natural Remedies MGR]

Dispensaries are a productive part of the whole process. I also agree the system works better when dispensaries are involved and allowed to co-exist with regular patients and caregivers (but not in lieu of them). It is only when standard Caregivers are ignored, criminalized, or otherwise unfairly used or treated within that process, that I personally hold any objections. I think dispensaries are being unfairly treated, as well as the average patient and caregiver. However, I think most average patients' and caregivers' arrests, and the unfair (actually "unlawful") LEO and court dealings they are forced to endure go largely unnoticed due to the attention given by the media to dispensaries and their particular plights. It seems that having pre-paid attorneys on call, and such may be fairing better in court than the poor person trying to use an affirmative defense, particularly when Michigan ranks dead last in fairness of Legal Defense for the poor, as well as in our quite possibly unconstitutional Seizure Laws. This combination even prevents one from securing enough of their own capital to fully fund their own defense when they do secure a good attorney instead of a public defender. I think some folks understandably get a bit jealous that for-profit businesses can garner formidable defense strategies and teams, while patients and caregivers outside the entrepreneurial community seem to be denied defense after defense. Although unfair, it is not the businesses' fault that they have capital. And typically they are charged with some nasty offenses that are generally far overstated and were just being wise in securing defense counsel in advance.

 

I would really encourage folks to support the Beatrice Solomon Patient and Caregiver Protection Resolution that is on the Dems list of Resolutions. This would at least allow for overages to be used by other patients and the caregiver to be compensated in some manner. This seems supportable and do-able compared to more grandiose strategies... even if they sound wonderful, they need to be achievable...

 

 

Bolded part. I agree. We NEED a strong caregiver population no matter what.

[Ten4GoodBuddys]

Bolded part. I agree. We NEED a strong caregiver population no matter what.

 

Since there is no language in the law about large scale commercial growing, we (the voters) read it as such that the caregivers would be able to provide the dispensaries. New patients go to dispensaries to become familiar with their new choices, as well as obtaining medication until the can establish a patient caregiver relationship with a reputable caregiver.

 

When a caregiver that supplies overages to the dispensary has a patient opening the dispensary would assist in finding that person a caregiver.

 

When I applied, I asked the receptionist where I was to get my medication and she told me a dispensary. I went to a dispensary and was introduced to the caregiver system, I joined the mmma.org and found out more about the caregiver system.

[Oman]

This is really what it comes down to... (see bold line in quote). Since they have sought to dehumanize any person who uses this substance. They are enacting an Apartheid form of government. When a Cannabis Patient (or person) is denied the ability to work, to travel (note this is actually a "Right" despite modern interpretations), to vote, sit a jury, bear arms, and to gather... what is really left?

 

I personally believe that if logged appropriately and presented professionally, our government which seems to want to "force" our "style" of freedom on other Nations should likewise be held accountable for imprisoning the highest proportion of a nation's population in recorded history... far worse than USSR under Stalin. With Michigan's Public Defender and Seizure rankings, it should be the centerpiece of such an ongoing study into this chicanery.

 

The real issue is, the dysfunction of the government. When the government causes wide scale damage in the distribution of medicine to patients. arrest people who are legally compliant. Disregards it's constitutional mandates for interpreting a voter's initiative. They are committing civil rights violations,. They should not be treated as rulers, but should be tried as tyrants. Thanks, Bb

[Kevin]

Everyone wants something different, everyone has different ideas to get it done. Agree with this, disagree with that. It's about caregivers, no, it's about patients, no, it's about dispensaries, no, it's about this or that. All going in different directions like a big cloud of gnats, and we expect to bring about positive change? Don't think so.

 

To hope for this, or wish for that, or pray for something else is nothing less than foolish. They are not going to change their minds on any of it. If we hope or wish or think they will, then we're the fools.

 

Legalization is the only logical solution. All Michigan pro-cannabis organizations & their members must advocate for a statewide initiative to repeal cannabis prohibition or we continue the futile fight for scraps. We deserve better than scraps.

 

The time is now. Support for cannabis legalization has never been higher. Though most polls show 60%+ to 70%+ in favor, a recent Michigan poll showed close to 90% of voters would support it. Time to decide who is standing and who is sitting. Each has a choice to be a part of a blitzkrieg or to be a part of a sitzkrieg.

 

A statewide legalization initiative on the ballot for Nov 2012 is the only logical solution. Or else, we find ourselves here still fighting in 2022. Not me.

 

I know where I stand and legalization is where my last efforts will be spent. Time to decide for yourself.

[CherryCrush]

It's not the governments fault that we, the community, have failed to implement the caregiver system to a proper level.

 

The law is the law regardless of what you wish, hope, shoulda, woulda coulda think it is. It is what it is and it will be interpretted conservatively in the state of michigan for at least 20 years until people quit voting in social conservative republican judges. So... be safe. Stay WELL within the law and you will have no problems.

 

IF The time, effort and money spent on dispensaries was spent supporting the pt/cg system that actually exists in Michigan, we wouldn't even be discussing this issue. The problem was, everyone running CC's clubs decided the money was more important and gave up on the legal cg system. Simple as that. I could name 30 clubs in the state that changed to a dispensary or a quasi dispensary instead of simply teaching and training people and patients to become safe, reliable affordable caregivers. It is the best way to ensure the best price and the best quality. Caregivers cost 50% of what medicine costs at a dispensary.

 

Is this law about commercialized money or simply helping patients to procure their meds from the actual grower at the best prices?

 

If it is about commercialized money, i expect to never hear you speak ill of Pfizer or any other corporatized commercial drug dealer. You are EXACTLY the same. Different scale, different drugs; same greed and same excuses to skim the patients of their futures. Pfizer gives away a few free drugs too ya know... to make themselves look good and cover up the underlying motives. Pffft.

 

The court of Appeals ruled that people/businesses who engage in "sales" outside of the pt/cg compensation model are simply Drug Dealers and will be treated as such. Caregivers are not street drug dealers. They are legal, competent caring people performing a service to help out a loved one, a friend or occasionally a stranger whom asks for help.

 

Instead of complaining about how difficult it may be to find caregivers in your area, why havent you started a compassion club where people can come and network and share in compassion with one another. Relentlessly training people to grow and be kind warm and compassionate caregivers.

 

This program is simple and straight forward. Noone is willing to put in the effort though because there isn't as much MONEY as people hoped there would be when taking care of 5 sick and disabled people. Don;t quit your day jobs people, this isn't meant to be a gravy train.

[Natural Remedies MGR]

The government must always exist within it's restraints or face extinction at the hands of the voters. The government has destroyed the wealth of the working class. All it has to offer is freedom. It's performance in that respect is dismissal. The government is destroying it's own mandate to govern. I love our country. I hope the ruling elite wake up, before it is too late. Thanks, bb

 

 

They have underestimated the effect of taking bread of off peoples tables. And I know a lot of people have, through various court rulings, to take the bread of off a LOT of people's tables. I'm not talking about people getting rich, I'm talking about people who know they can afford propane this winter, or at least they did. Now we will see that money redirected, not completely, but in significant quantities none the less, to drug cartels and illegal importers instead.

[CherryCrush]

Now we will see that money redirected, not completely, but in significant quantities none the less, to drug cartels and illegal importers instead.

 

 

Actaully, that was what most dispensaries were doing. Importation. Caregivers grow their patients medication. It is safe, inexpensive, and done in a personal private manner that far exceeds the safety of a dispensary.

[Herb Cannabis]

Everyone wants something different, everyone has different ideas to get it done. Agree with this, disagree with that. It's about caregivers, no, it's about patients, no, it's about dispensaries, no, it's about this or that. All going in different directions like a big cloud of gnats, and we expect to bring about positive change? Don't think so.

 

To hope for this, or wish for that, or pray for something else is nothing less than foolish. They are not going to change their minds on any of it. If we hope or wish or think they will, then we're the fools.

 

Legalization is the only logical solution. All Michigan pro-cannabis organizations & their members must advocate for a statewide initiative to repeal cannabis prohibition or we continue the futile fight for scraps. We deserve better than scraps.

 

The time is now. Support for cannabis legalization has never been higher. Though most polls show 60%+ to 70%+ in favor, a recent Michigan poll showed close to 90% of voters would support it. Time to decide who is standing and who is sitting. Each has a choice to be a part of a blitzkrieg or to be a part of a sitzkrieg.

 

A statewide legalization initiative on the ballot for Nov 2012 is the only logical solution. Or else, we find ourselves here still fighting in 2022. Not me.

 

I know where I stand and legalization is where my last efforts will be spent. Time to decide for yourself.

 

I agree with you Kevin, it is time to put the screws to these people by just legalizing it. I hope everyone will agree, this is the best way forward.

[wingnut]

As a long time advocate for the disabled and disenfranchised, it is appalling to me to once again encounter the utter hypocrisy exhibited by the Court of Appeals, in conjunction with law enforcement to cause legal, medical, and personal problems to everyone involved in the legal, State administered Medical Marijuana Program.

To what end? Some have speculated that Big Pharma will be the ultimate victor, likely dispensing some crap which will pass for, say, a rather exceptional Purple Kush bud. Amazing! It just goes on and on. As we know, there is a lot of money to be made here—-and darn sure, it will be the ones who now have the enormous wealth and political connections who will win this battle. In the end, we will be fortunate to retain our right to even grow a few plants. A pox upon the house of the oppressors!

 

Good luck to all.

 

 

[CherryCrush]

Still,

 

the government is not who has failed the caregiver system, we have.

 

Look in a mirror people.

 

 

Quote:

 

"The patients must retain all of their freedom. Including the freedom to recover their cost..."

 

 

That isn't part of the current law though BB so it was never had or there to be lost.

 

To change it, we have to open up the law and since we don;t support opening the law, we best learn to work with what we have. A small program to help sick people produce or procure their medication from their registered caregiver.

 

That's the program. Will it work for everyone? Not a chance. Will adding dispensaries work for everyone? Not a chance. Will adding farmers markets on top of all of those work for everyone? not a chance.

 

:-)

 

Sux, but it is life. We do the best we can to not let people slip through the cracks as a social community. But it will always happen.

 

But to expand/fix our law for most things, we will have to open up the current law. Noone wants that. Open it up means everyone gets their swing at it. Us, you, MSP, prosecutors, Bill Schuette, Rick Jones, MTA, MML, and every and any other group you can think of.

 

So, lets fight to protect what we have, abide by what we have, and simply make what we have work until we can run a new ballot initiative to expand the law or legalize.

 

:-)

[CherryCrush]

What i am saying is, we can only control what we can control; and what we can control, we havent controlled.

[CherryCrush]

Preachin to the choir on that one.

 

I have always said we have a chance to fight it under acquisition in that compensation could be allowed. A small chance.

 

Every single state with similar language to ours has ruled no patient to patient with consideration etc. One third of those states have said a patient can;t transfer to another patient at all.

 

So it doesnt surprise me in the least bit in Michigan, with such a socially conservative Judiciary, that they will rule against compensation, consideration and/or renumeration in a pt/pt transfer.

 

We can and will keep trying to get it accepted, but realize, precedent isnt with us.

[CherryCrush]

damm right.

 

We may not have gotten EVERYTHING in this law, but we dam well did get more than they give it credit for.

 

Onward and upward. it's all we can do.

[Restorium2]

Still,

 

the government is not who has failed the caregiver system, we have.

 

Look in a mirror people.

 

 

Quote:

 

"The patients must retain all of their freedom. Including the freedom to recover their cost..."

 

 

That isn't part of the current law though BB so it was never had or there to be lost.

 

To change it, we have to open up the law and since we don;t support opening the law, we best learn to work with what we have. A small program to help sick people produce or procure their medication from their registered caregiver.

 

That's the program. Will it work for everyone? Not a chance. Will adding dispensaries work for everyone? Not a chance. Will adding farmers markets on top of all of those work for everyone? not a chance.

 

:-)

 

Sux, but it is life. We do the best we can to not let people slip through the cracks as a social community. But it will always happen.

 

But to expand/fix our law for most things, we will have to open up the current law. Noone wants that. Open it up means everyone gets their swing at it. Us, you, MSP, prosecutors, Bill Schuette, Rick Jones, MTA, MML, and every and any other group you can think of.

 

So, lets fight to protect what we have, abide by what we have, and simply make what we have work until we can run a new ballot initiative to expand the law or legalize.

 

:-)

So no one wants to open the law for amendments. I know when I'm beat. But remember who was the loudest (crazy) advocate for amendments, RESTO I will have to be resigned to the fact that Rhode Island's RIPAC was kicking ash and taking names in a way that we can't even attempt. Ahhh... you must welcome the disfunction...bask in it. Feel the warmth of it. It's Pure Michigan.

 

Look at the bright side: It's cheap to live here.... and you can transfer in private and hold in public.

[Hayduke]

and what is your conclusion on dispensaries?

[Hayduke]

...and if the law is opened, which seems somewhat likely in our Republican majority state, what then?

 

we can wait them out hoping they do not pass anything successfully. But in light of the fact that numerous of the House bills only require a simple majority (this means they are not amending the MMMMA), and we truly do not know if they can muster a super majority to open the MMMA, what then?

 

As you know, our strategy at CPU, has been, and remains, an effort to at very least, try and provide some changes to the proposed bills prior to any voting going on. Granted this is a thankless job, and legislators who have proposed these bills may elect to NOT change their "well thought out" (sic) words, but we are thinking calmer heads will prevail and the thought of losing ones election over ones vote on the MMMA may bring more legislators to the compromise or kill the bill camp.

 

hopefully in conjunction with a successful Sept 7th showing, the legislators will think twice before voting in these absolutely crumby bills.

 

Time will tell...

[Restorium2]

The reality about dispensaries, that we will all have to live with for the foreseeable future, was best summed up by David Leyton on the TV news;

 

"There is a public dispensary model that is legal; a caregiver, or several, servicing their 5 registered patients at one location, in public.

Until it is brought to our attention, with proof, that they are doing something other than this, they will be left alone. I'm not going to pay my investigators to look into it."

 

Now Mr. Leyton likes us. Not all prosecutors do. And some WILL pay their investigators to look into cannabis stores.

 

And since there is this window of legality for dispensaries, they will continue to open and be closed. The owners, caregivers affiliated, and their patients, will continue to be victims of the system. There will be countless court cases.

[+EdwardGlen]

Let's defend the patients rights above all else. We will not allow them to be fodder for the politicians and corrupt judges. They will not become spectacles to be paraded before the public. Their names published ob lists. Their homes invaded. Forced to scurry around dark alleyways for their medicine. We will no longer hide. We have tasted freedom and will no longer tolerate slavery. Thanks, Bb

 

Ready.. Willing.. Able...

[mrd]

bb you really need to get out of the Lord of the Rings verb-age. It sounds like you are always describing Gollums world. Although I can see why you might make that analogy, I feel it is a distraction. The politicians who are against us really do not care about patients, so you are just drumming in that approach to those who are already in agreement.

 

I want to know what those who oppose us really think. What they really think about mj or mmj. What they think in private. Not what they say to try to get re elected and such. I want to persuade them to do otherwise, through logic and hopefully backed by enough of their constituents to change their mind. I never really hear about those things.

 

On the other hand my friggin Senator Mike Rodgers sends me all kind of email crap but managed not to mention a town hall meeting a couple of miles away from me. (I am probably on the "lets not call him list since I have called their office (which I am about to do again!)

 

Okay so who are the democrats in the legislature and where do they stand on mmj? Who is on the fence? How do i get this information.

 

I know that those who oppose us live in the Suburbs of Mordor but there is work to be done!

 

Also we should fire those at CPU and get a nice reliable Hobbit to represent us. (They work cheap)

[Restorium2]

bb you really need to get out of the Lord of the Rings verb-age. It sounds like you are always describing Gollums world. Although I can see why you might make that analogy, I feel it is a distraction. The politicians who are against us really do not care about patients, so you are just drumming in that approach to those who are already in agreement.

 

I want to know what those who oppose us really think. What they really think about mj or mmj. What they think in private. Not what they say to try to get re elected and such. I want to persuade them to do otherwise, through logic and hopefully backed by enough of their constituents to change their mind. I never really hear about those things.

 

On the other hand my friggin Senator Mike Rodgers sends me all kind of email crap but managed not to mention a town hall meeting a couple of miles away from me. (I am probably on the "lets not call him list since I have called their office (which I am about to do again!)

 

Okay so who are the democrats in the legislature and where do they stand on mmj? Who is on the fence? How do i get this information.

 

I know that those who oppose us live in the Suburbs of Mordor but there is work to be done!

 

Also we should fire those at CPU and get a nice reliable Hobbit to represent us. (They work cheap)

 

LOL Michigan is a GRAND place to be for a cannabis attorney. Can you say boom state? I think the attorneys have us by the nads and they advise us to stay this way. OUCH! At least a hobbit doesn't have that kind of GRIP! LOL Might as well laugh it off... ha ha ouch.

[+mayorherb]

Not an option for many people. Not every caregiver can afford to grow for 5 patients. You aren't likely to appease the people that think we are outside of the law, that we are in fact inside the law anyways. Its like trying to convince a tiger not to eat your foot after it ate your toes already. Good luck.

 

On even further consideration, your notion that they just use a different caregiver until theirs is ready... again where does that new caregiver get a seed or clone LEGALLY? And again they can't just wait for the CG of choice to get his grow going, he CAN'T grow unless he has patients, so that means they must wait.

 

 

My advice to CAregivers is: If you are going to take on a patient..You need to get a cpl grows under your belt (for new growers) ..Get all the bugs figured out..Then when you add a aptient, You will have eds for them..when you go to Dr. and get meds..YOU DO NOT have to wait 3 or 4 months..I KNOW a few patients who do not have a few months to wait..BY then, they will be dead..So if you want to be a caregiver and want to do a good job, Practice. So your patients are not with out..

[Willy]

perpetual grow, is the only way for a good caregiver to work. no way around it, or have contacts with another good cg to help out in emergencies...