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Re: the MMMA Role.

 

In a lot of ways this site is more of a legal site than a medical site. Maybe something like 60% legal info; 20% medical info; 20% other info.

 

I hope we get away from what kind of bong do you like type conversations. If so they should be in the spirit if medical benefit.

 

I think the focus means to be on patients and for patients needs. I think that because so much of patient needs are legal information in a changing landscape, the somewhat disproportionate amount of legal information is appropriate. As things become more clear, I would hope that we grow in the medical information area. Things like Ed Rosenthals new book about strains and what medical uses each has. I learned about Simpson Oil here, I learned about Cancer Killing Cannabis treatments, I learned about how I can help a lot of people I love dearly. Expanding the knowledge base of how we can help people with medical cannabis treatments is highly beneficial in growing as a community. The more people who choose medical marijuana the more support we have.

 

I think safe access via the farmers market has become a current need after the COA ruling. I support the mmma's action on creating the farmers market and hope to see it continue. In addition to this I hope that we are keeping the focus of connecting patients and caregivers who can offer more individualized, strain specific, health benefit oriented than what is available in the market setting.

 

Here are some areas I am particularly interested in learning more about.

- Cerebral Palsy (Cannabis seems to have an amazing impact on quality of life)

- Neuropathy (I have a close loved one who suffers and is interested in benefits from cannabis)

- Chrons disease (Loved one suffering)

- PTSD specifically with veterans but not limited to veterans

- Cannabis as an exit drug to the opiate addiction for pain. I would eventually like to see marijuana recommended prior to opiate prescriptions for most pain.

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I like the new direction of the thread.

 

Ok, so where the MMM.org could go -

 

design the forum to separate medical and legal discussion, user selects 'skin' that will load his/her preferred settings - like loading new content from the medical forums, rather than mixing them together.

 

There was no discussion of banning legalization talk, but the whole idea of this post was to get everyone to think, 'maybe we should treat this site like a medical marijuana site'. Think, does a sick 55 year old want to come to this forum for credible information on MMM? Does a 40 year man want to tell his wife to visit MMM.org so she can understand why he wants to try medical marijuana? At this point, everything abotu the MMMP is going to rely on credibility and legitimacy.

 

Interesting side topic, "how does one define recreational use vs medical use?" perhaps thats another thread, good ideas.

 

See you at the Protest today!

 

DN

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I like the new direction of the thread.

 

Ok, so where the MMM.org could go -

 

design the forum to separate medical and legal discussion, user selects 'skin' that will load his/her preferred settings - like loading new content from the medical forums, rather than mixing them together.

 

There was no discussion of banning legalization talk, but the whole idea of this post was to get everyone to think, 'maybe we should treat this site like a medical marijuana site'. Think, does a sick 55 year old want to come to this forum for credible information on MMM? Does a 40 year man want to tell his wife to visit MMM.org so she can understand why he wants to try medical marijuana? At this point, everything abotu the MMMP is going to rely on credibility and legitimacy.

 

Interesting side topic, "how does one define recreational use vs medical use?" perhaps thats another thread, good ideas.

 

See you at the Protest today!

 

DN

 

 

But your failing to realize that this site is not only about Medical Marijuana.... You could add in a bunch of words to that... example: Think, does a sick 55 year old want to come to this forum for credible information on MMM? Yes but does she care about computers? Sports? Conspiracy Theorists?

Does a 40 year man want to tell his wife to visit MMM.org so she can understand why he wants to try medical marijuana? Sure, but is she going to go to... Patient issues, or sports to find that out?

 

I actually find it sick that anybody here would want the status quo when it comes to Marijuana law. The only real way to get full medical is along with full legalization....

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This patient doesn't want the outcome to be a felony.

These rules were adopted by the Founding Board Members of the MMMA and should be adhered to out of respect for the Principles and Ideals of the MMMA.:

 

Keep the focus on patient outcomes. What is best for the patient must always be the #1 priority and the primary focus.

 

We are about medical cannabis, not the larger issues of Prohibition or responsible adult use. Do not stray too far into those areas. Refer people to MI NORML if they wish to pursue those important issues.

 

Avoid exaggerated claims of the medical efficacy of cannabis. The MMMA position is, “marijuana TREATS the SYMPTOMS of many diseases”.

 

Do not claim cannabis or cannabinoids CURE any disease. Do not claim that cannabis or

cannabinoids treat the disease itself. This is non-negotiable.

 

No one knows all the answers about the Michigan Medical Marijuana Act. Be sure the information you impart to anyone is accurate.

 

Don’t pretend to know things you don’t, if you’re asked a question you don’t have an answer for, tell people you don’t know but you will find out, or tell them where to find the information.

 

Be honest with people and they will respect your leadership and want to follow you.

 

Always stay on the MMMA message

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When it started, we didn't know patients would be spending tens of thousands in going to court to face felony charges with no medical defense. Very bad but unforeseen patient outcomes.

That doesn't change what we stood for at the beginning. Are you saying that we were wrong when we made those guidelines back in '08? And if so, why?

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These rules were adopted by the Founding Board Members of the MMMA and should be adhered to out of respect for the Principles and Ideals of the MMMA.:

 

Keep the focus on patient outcomes. What is best for the patient must always be the #1 priority and the primary focus.

 

We are about medical cannabis, not the larger issues of Prohibition or responsible adult use. Do not stray too far into those areas. Refer people to MI NORML if they wish to pursue those important issues.

 

Avoid exaggerated claims of the medical efficacy of cannabis. The MMMA position is, “marijuana TREATS the SYMPTOMS of many diseases”.

 

Do not claim cannabis or cannabinoids CURE any disease. Do not claim that cannabis or

cannabinoids treat the disease itself. This is non-negotiable.

 

No one knows all the answers about the Michigan Medical Marijuana Act. Be sure the information you impart to anyone is accurate.

 

Don’t pretend to know things you don’t, if you’re asked a question you don’t have an answer for, tell people you don’t know but you will find out, or tell them where to find the information.

 

Be honest with people and they will respect your leadership and want to follow you.

 

Always stay on the MMMA message

If we are focusing on what's best for patients then that would be full legalization. The first two years of the law-before the "recreational" users joined in, the patient raids were terrible. Rallys only had a small number of people and we didn't have as much attention focused on the issue. As far as "recreational" users go, as a patient, all I have to say is Thank You.

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Not so much dividing us patients, it divides public opinion of the regular person on the street. Almost everyone is for medical cannabis. A lot less people are for total legalization. The law rode on the back of the slogan, "Take the patients off the front lines in the war on cannabis". Lets see that through. We need to keep that promise made in '08. Just like when we said there wouldn't be any dispensaries. People are paying attention to all of this and they are not dumb. No one likes to be made the fool by bait and switch.

 

Got to keep them separated, Medical Cannabis XXXXX Free The Weed, two totally different things. All medical can do for legalization is to force the schedule change.

 

this is about the same place im at currently. but, there is a 3rd aspect to this conversation which is extremely important for us as a NATAION with HUGE financial hurdles.

 

HEMP

 

 

still trying to figure out exactly where im at for sure. 1. im all for killing prohibition. so that would put me in the full on legalization ring.

 

but, it wasnt until i was in my early 30, and decided to take a break from my "Recreational" use for a few months, that i then realized, i was using cannabis FAR FAR more as a medicine than a relaxing agent for after work.

 

with in 2 weeks of taking my break, i was very stiff, and very sore, my body ached, and my joints bothered me. i never gave it much thought at first. just took some tylenol, and a few hydrocordones, which vaguely helped. but after 3 weeks i was still soar and hurting.

 

went out with some buddies on the 3rd weekend, ans one of my buddys had some decent green at the time, so i said sure, let me take a few pokes.

 

i was still soar, but with in 10 minutes, i wasnt hardly as hurting as i was, and within 20 minutes, i was pretty much pain free. those few hits did more for me that 2 to 3 weeks worth of tylenol or hydrocodone i was getting from my wife every morning before i took off to work could.

 

so you can see why im torn on this. i honestly think it should be legal outright. but that process will HAVE to address Hemp as well. which is where 1/2 of the opposition comes from, while the other 1/2 is Pharma and the alcohol industry.

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She must have had a really stupid attorney is all I can say. All attorneys should have known dispensaries were illegal with our law.

 

We knew there would be test cases.

 

Bob was out there in the beginning and he got chosen. He wasn't guilty and still isn't, as proven in court. That's just how it works with new laws.

 

end the stupid cannabis laws and then the patients would not have to suffer period, why do you continue to want people to suffer, or support this kind of nonsense

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Do you have any statistics to prove raids were bad and got better? I pay attention and I'm thinking you are way off with that statement. I just don't think that is a factual account of the history of medical cannabis in Michigan.

 

You are correct that recreational users did get our law passed. That's because we were all recreational back then. I became a patient on 12/4/08 when I first saw a doctor about medical cannabis.

Actually, I have not done a true statistical analysis on the subject, but I remeber a lot of very destructive raids on older people, especially up north and in the Saginaw area over a year ago. I have heard of some raids lately but they have focused more on dispensaries from my perspective.

I would love to see your statistics, since you called my statement "way off".

At this point, I will focus on my patient's plants and stop arguing over trivial things since we are supposed to be focusing on patients.

Edited by kirsten
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to not discuss it would be equivalent to turning a blind eye to a huge aspect of our law. they are connencted. though i agree. the end results concern 2 different current issues.

 

 

full legaliztion is the big step that will make medical cannabis use a mute point. that is a fact.

BUT in the meantime, until Cannabis is removed from All drug scheduling, we have to protect and fight for the law We the People passed, and have currently enacted. MMJ is the law of Michigan, full legalization is not, and those two aspects need to remain seperate, though both are connected at the end of it all.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I listened to, and had as a guest at my cc, a smart attorney that told us what we couldn't get away with. No one that followed my advice would be in line for a felony because I followed those rules. Nothing that as happened has been a surprise to me or my attorney. When the basic rules were not followed, they couldn't use a medical defense. Nothing has changed since '08. Things my attorney predicted came true. He's not some wizard with a crystal ball. Much of what has happened was easily predicted back in '08.

 

Oh please .. nothing has changed since 2008???

 

Case law after case law .. none of which was there in 2008.

 

In 2008 he did a GREAT service to our community.

 

That said, he is NOT perfect. No one has a completely accurate crystal ball.

 

Everything he talked about and wrote about back then was conveyed with a view toward caution. Err on the that side, was his advice.

 

He was NOT saying that "err on the side of caution" is how the law will conclude in every situation.

 

Edit .. I have sat down with this same attorney many times since that meeting and discussed this law.

Edited by peanutbutter
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Oh please .. nothing has changed since 2008???

 

Case law after case law .. none of which was there in 2008.

 

In 2008 he did a GREAT service to our community.

 

That said, he is NOT perfect. No one has a completely accurate crystal ball.

 

Everything he talked about and wrote about back then was conveyed with a view toward caution. Err on the that side, was his advice.

 

He was NOT saying that "err on the side of caution" is how the law will conclude in every situation.

 

Edit .. I have sat down with this same attorney many times since that meeting and discussed this law.

what attorney r we talking about?
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She must have had a really stupid attorney is all I can say. All attorneys should have known dispensaries were illegal with our law.

 

Really??

 

Please quote the law you are talking about. The one that says dispensaries are illegal.

 

Edit .. interesting how you agree that some attorneys may think dispensaries are indeed legal. More interesting that the test to determine if an attorney is stupid depends on weather or not they agree with you.

Edited by peanutbutter
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I live near Saginaw and know the details of all the raids. My cc was in Saginaw. I can recite the details of most all raids in Saginaw County. If you need specifics just reference the case and I will try to fill in the blanks. Things have not gotten any better... or worse, in my area. Many know not to step over the lines now because some got busted. The ones I know of were not following the advice I gave them at the cc when they were 'approached'.

 

Didn't you run one single meeting?

 

With the intent of having one single meeting with the hopes that someone else would lead a Saginaw CC.

 

You had one meeting and then quit. As you intended.

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In 1996, when the first Medical Marijuana Initiative passed in CA (Prop19) both myself, Jack Herer and many others were skeptical about focusing on medical use only. Yes we did understand the political implications and yes it did allow some headway that would not have otherwise occurred. But here we are 15 years later and what have we got?

 

As Adam Brook pointed out to me last April: it was the Michigan Municipal League that first tried to walk back the law by pushing local zoning ordinances etc. I testified in both Royal Oak and Dearborn Heights in an attempt to thwart this. And Adam who had the balls to stand up in Royal Oak most likely was singled out for doing the same thing. I often wonder if I could have suffered a similar fate had I also lived in Royal Oak.

 

In 2010 Dearborn Heights passed a zoning ordinance that would technically disallow caregivers from growing in their own homes. Because I testified they assured us that caregivers rights would in fact be upheld. Scarce comfort to be found in that from my point of view. But what I found interesting, upon investigating their city budget, Obama gave 230,000 dollars to the City in 2010. To me this is Federal Blackmail, serving international corporate interests. The goal seems rather obvious:

 

Obama has been giving GW Pharmeceuticals preferential access to the market, paving the way for them to grow THEIR Cannabis in order to provide the components for Sativex. At the same time -- as I had long predicted -- he has escalated the war on Cannabis Consumers and Growers (e.g., "caregivers). In an insane exercise in schizophrenia Shuette and the Obama maintain that Marijuana has no "recognized" medical use at the same time they successfully sought a patent on Cannabis based on it's proven medical use.

 

Also interesting was the global reach of the law firm representing the City of Dearborn.

 

Similarly I investigated two Marijuana busts in Dearborn on the block that my parents have resided in since 1963. Never has there been such a bust on their street. My dad was struck by the military style invasion of the two homes: one next to them, one two doors down. When I analyzed the Dearborn budget online (e.g., the CAFR Report) I found that the city made $830,000 in drug arrests and forfeiture in 2009 and you can be assured that most of that was for Cannabis. During discovery the victim on the corner found that they were going through his trash for months and only found a twig and less than a gram of Cannabis residue. For that they broke down his garage door and the two entry doors to the house. In all nearly $3000 in damage and all they found was a glass pipe and less than a gram of Cannabis.

 

So let us stop beating about the shrub here. The reason this arrest and forfeiture continues is because it is a significant revenue stream for every city in the United States. And the Federal Government sees this as a means to prop up failing local governments that have already dug deeply into their pension funds to keep their respective boats from sinking. In other words the cities are more addicted to Marijuana Prohibtion than addicts are addicted to nicotene and heroin. It is ALL about the money.

 

When I worked with a small federation of activists to defeat Prop19 in 2010 we were adamant that we would not allow the government to "tax, regulate and control" the production and distribution of Cannabis. Yet organizations such as NORML, MPP and DPA acted like the regular cheerleaders and gave full support to Prop19. Although it would be insane to take full credit for this I can assure you that our impact on the defeat of Prop19 was very significant. We had some of the most highly regarded activists on our team including Dennis Peron.

 

On a international level we are seeing the slow and sure implementation of Agenda21 which seeks to control our food, our supplements and deny us the right to own a gun. I mention this because I do believe that this is the overarching agenda within which the "corporate control of Cannabis" is but a small but significant facet. This was also reflected in Obama's ATF announcement recently where the "making whoopee donkey rectum in chief" had the audacity to say a Marijuana patient cannot own a gun. Of course he hid behind the ATF but be assured that this is exactly what he wanted to occur in order to placate those that put him in power (the Central Banks, Monsanto etc.).

 

I know a lot of you would just like to forget the legacy of Jack Herer but it might just be worth a short review. What was the real primary point of his book "The Emperor Wears No Clothes?"

 

The primary point was that the REAL reason for Marijuana Prohibition was that it posed a threat to many Multinational Corporate interests including Big Oil, Synthetics, Paper and Pharmaceuticals. In essence he made clear that the real reason for Cannabis Prohibition was that it would have interposed a truly free market in agricultural/industrial hemp that would have reduced or eliminated the need for oil drilling, fracking, cutting down trees for newspaper etc.

 

And what has the Medical Strategy done to create this envisioned "truly free market." Not a darn thing. In fact it has done the opposite as larger entities (e.g, Oaksterdam, THCF, dispensaries in general) have been hard at work on garbage like Prop19(CA), OCTA(OR) etc. in order to monopolize control of the "market" for themselves. And if "Poop Shuette" gets his way I could see the patient/caregiver lists given to local authorities which could result in massive raids as they shoot us like fish in a barrel.

 

I think it is time we got back on track again and prepare for the final battle: where Marijuana is never controlled by any city, state or federal entity. Adults should be able to grow indoors under 2-4 1000W lamps and gift, sell, or consume whatever comes forth without ANY expensive government regulation or control. Let's face it, this is how it has worked since the early 60's -- some 50 years now.

 

It is time to insist on a rejuvenation of our inalienable rights to grow whatever food or herb that we desire. And, yes, this flies directly in the face of Agenda21 which seeks to control us by controlling our access to food, supplements, herbs and guns. It is time for all parties -- government, dispensaries, etc. -- to put the common good first.

 

Frankly I would recommend no limits on NON_GMO Industrial hemp biomass production much like they are currently doing in countries like Scandanavia. Stigliz had recently assessed that the cost of dominating energy resources (e.g., Lithium, Oil, Natural Gas) in Iraq and Afganistan have cost us nearly 7 TRILLION dollars. And many of the energy industries, especially nuclear energy, would not be profitable were it not for government subsidies (e.g., you tax money). To whatever extent that we can produce our own energy proportionately reduces our need for military interventions as well as the likelihood of the next World War.

 

Well, I've "blathered on" long enough here. The point is we really need to immediately embrace the entire package for Marijuana Re-Legalization and stop merely focusing on "medical" which was just a strategic ploy anyway. Since the Spring of 2009 a majority of Americans now embrace what I would call "true legalization" where we get beyond this puritanical moo poo that we don't enjoy getting a buzz on once in awhile. And we won't tolerate anything more than a drivers license, showing that we are over 18, in order to grow or consume Cannabis.

 

I mean really how many more millions are going to have to get arrested or shot before we get beyond our own personal economic interests surrounding our relationship with this plant?

 

One thing that WE could be doing is insisting that the agri/industrial/medical/recreational uses of Cannabis becomes Plank#1 of the Occupy Wall Street Movement. This will be a great challenge to scum like Soros who is already attempting to co-opt this movement just as he co-oped the Re-Legalization Movement. Any takers? LOL.

 

Yours in Peace and Freedom,

 

Bruce W. Cain

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If patients and caregivers were not having to go to court and jail, I'd think the mmma would be enough and we didn't need legalization. I am a patient that needs legalization. I am afraid of persecution.

 

Simple as that. I approach it totally from a patient perspective. We need to help patients. Seems the best way to keep them out of courts and out of jail.

 

I mean, if they weren't willing to charge patients with felonies and other criminal sanctions, I don't think we'd be talking about this at all. The legalization talk started because of the governments heavy handed tactics with patients. If the initiative materializes, from my perspective, it will be for the patients.

 

Thanks for your support

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