Medical Marijuana Views Collide At Macomb County Courthouse Video

[+ProPlayer420]

News link w/video protest video

 

MMA advocates rally in support of Chesterfield Township facility subject to township crackdown

 

A spirited rally and a police chief’s testimony highlighted the radically different interpretations of the state medical marijuana law Thursday inside and outside the Macomb County courthouse.

 

Chesterfield Township Police Chief Bruce Smith testified in support of the township and state Attorney General Bill Schuette’s attempt to shut down Big Daddy’s medical marijuana facility through nuisance and zoning ordinance violations.

 

Smith said medical marijuana commercial facilities don’t belong in his city of 43,000 residents.

 

“I think commercial compassion clubs are not something we want in the township,” he testified. “California has had an increase in crime around their dispensaries. Robberies, murders. I didn’t want this thing coming into Chesterfield Township. It’s my belief medical marijuana dispensaries are a bad thing for the community.”

 

Smith said the law indicates limits MMA caregivers to providing pot five patients, so commercial facilities are unlikely to be able to legally operate and stay in business. He said caregivers must be listed by name and cannot provide to anyone with a patient card.

 

“If two caregivers are working, the most they can service is 10,” he said. “I don’t see how they could legally service beyond 10.”

 

MMA card holders should grow and sell cannibbas in their homes because keeping it inside “is much more suited to the family lifestyle of Chesterfield Township.”

 

Protesters noted state voters passed the law in 2008 by a 63 percent.

 

“We voted for this and now they are trying to take it away, that’s not right,” said Larry Smith, 34, of Mount Clemens, as he held as sign that said, “Back to the street for meds.”

 

Medical marijuana provides a preferable option for people experiencing physical ailments and pain over prescription and illegal drugs, advocates said.

 

Jason, who said he was a 35-year-old caregiver and did not wish to be named, said patients who can’t get drugs at a dispensary turn to other drugs.

 

“If patients can’t get their medicine, they’ll go to illegal prescription drugs or worse drugs,” he said, adding that “one one has died” from a marijuana overdose.

 

Misty, who also did not want her last named, said she is a patient and caregiver who patronizes “a couple of places” to obtain marijuana.

 

“I support access for patients to their medicine,” she said. “I think he (Schuette) is getting in the way and not allowing the law to do what it supposed to do.”

 

Schuette on Thursday responded that the law was never intended to make room for pot shops, marijuana farms or legalization. He said the state Court of Appeals in August essentially agreed with him in People vs. McQueen.

 

The AG remains convinced that the ballot proposal was “vaguely worded, poorly crafted, on purpose” and then used as a vehicle by out-of-state activists to bring Michigan closer to the complete legalization of marijuana, although outlawed by federal authorities.

 

“That these folks want to protest, that’s fine. That’s our country. They have the right to express their opinions,” he said. “But, mind you, my job is to enforce the law.”

 

Big Daddy’s, which operates three other facilities in Michigan, stopped marijuana sales after the McQueen decision.

 

James Rasor, attorney for Big Daddy’s, at the court hearing tried to present evidence of studies that show no crime increase around medical marijuana facilities in states that have allowed them longer.

 

“Are you aware of studies of medical marijuana facilities in other states that show they’re safer than banks, safer than pharmacies, safer than liquor stores?” Rasor asked Smith.

 

But Smith didn’t have to answer and Rasor was restricted from pursuing that line of questioning by Judge James Foster of Macomb County Circuit Court.

 

Rasor, a Royal Oak city councilman, during cross examination tried to show Smith incorrectly interpreted the law. Rasor said the law only limits caregivers in “cultivation” of marijuana for five patients.

 

MMA advocates say caregivers can supply an unlimited number of patients. Rasor said the law permits the “use” of marijuana, and “use” as defined by the law includes the “unlimited transfer” of marijuana, which is equivalent to the “sale.”

 

The MMA allows for “compensation for costs associated with assisting a registered qualifying patient in the medical use of marijuana.” Patients can possess up to 2.5 ounces of marijuana and 12 plants.

 

Foster limited Thursday’s testimony to the public nuisance issue, one of four allegations, in which the township and Schuette claims Big Daddy’s hosted illegal activities.

 

Smith testified that he did not receive any citizen complaints about Big Daddy’s but learned about suspected illegal sales from his officers.

 

“They were doing business, people were purchasing marijuana at that location,” Smith said.

 

Police Office Harry Otal testified he patronized Big Daddy’s as an undercover officer with the County of Macomb Enforcement Team. He had obtained a patient license under a fake name and went to a doctor in Port Huron who didn’t know Otal’s position. Otal said he told the doctor he had leg or back pain, and the doctor approved him for a patient card.

 

He described the transaction in May when he purchased six grams of marijuana for $55. He first met with a man who allowed him to become a compassion club member for $2 per month, and then was taken to a back room by a woman. He said he could choose among about six jars containing different strains of marijuana.

 

He said the woman did not show him a card, and she was not listed as his caregiver.

 

He said the marijuana was not located in a secure and locked facility as required under the MMA.

 

The hearing is expected to continue Friday when several other witnesses, including police officers and caregivers, are expected to testify.

 

Rasor also during the hearing accused the township of violating court rules by improperly obtaining evidence when patrons of Big Daddy’s were subjected to police traffic stops and interviews by township police.

 

“There were taking depositions of individuals without notice to us,” he said. “They were getting discovery by pulling people over using police powers. Lights, sirens. It’s just outrageous.”

 

But township attorney Colleen O’Connor retorted that the stops were done as part of a police investigation.

 

“There’s never been an instance of any one pulled over without probable cause,” she said.

 

Foster said Rasor could file a motion on the issue.

 

Foster said he already has heard enough arguments about a claim that Big Daddy’s violated a zoning law that was passed after the facility opened.

 

Staff Writer Chad Selweski contributed to this report.

Prior to the hearing, dozens of medical marijuana advocates rallied in front of the downtown Mount Clemens courthouse to protest the township and Schuette’s efforts

[The Digital Nomad]

Things of note:

1. leo pulled people over leaving the place

2. leo used actual issued MDCH MMMP card to get in

 

DN

[kruztydj]

Dozens hahahahah,,, try a few hundred.......

 

Well why are they in court if nobody complained ???? Hmmmmmm seems they cant answer that.. Well go figure.....

:growl:

[The Digital Nomad]

When the Chief of police said "“I think commercial compassion clubs are not something we want in the township,” he testified. “California has had an increase in crime around their dispensaries. Robberies, murders. I didn’t want this thing coming into Chesterfield Township. It’s my belief medical marijuana dispensaries are a bad thing for the community.”"

 

I was the one that coughed and said "bullshuette" in the courtroom. The prosecutor looked angry and tried looking around for me. Sorry, reflex.

 

DN

[The Digital Nomad]

which conflicts the definition given last month by COA. A transfer, delivery, or acquisition PLUS MONEY is a SALE.

 

Also, I believe it says, a CG may assist the five patients they are connected to via the MDCH registry.

 

interesting indeed.

 

DN

[The Digital Nomad]

the public nuisance complaint can be used from the Public Health Code - no one shall dispense a controlled substance without license.

 

I would point out, most dispensaries are located in industrial or city areas, which are likely to have high crime.

 

DN

[solabeirtan]

In order for Police Office Harry Otal of the County of Macomb Enforcement Team to obtian a valid Michigan Medical Marihuana Card he would have had to supply falsified documents including a Phoney Michigan Drivers License.

 

 

 

While he claims the Cannabis was not secured per the intention of the Law , this is speculation on his part. I'm sure they were in an area protected by at least one locking door.

 

 

 

A Patient is allowed to get his medicine from any sources available. Especially since there isn't another available source that can sastisfy this need Although if he has a dedicated Caregiver, I would assume his Caregiver should have this right as well [to procure medicine].

[Medcnman]

I know that in California its a felony to illegally obtain a medical

Marinuana card. Is it not the same here in Michigan? Why can LEO illegally obtain a MM card to bust legal patients. It just baffles me. Its a crime to lie to LEO but if LEO lies to us, its called an "investigation". Now more than ever, we need to pull together and fight the fight that LEO has brought to our door. It sounds to me that Chief Smith has substituted hard evidence for his opinion and Judge Foster thinks thats good enough. Well, its just not good enough for me!

[angel4us]

so when is next hearing and when is next protest date ?

[+Dizledot]

Excuse me but did this person named Jason, last name withheld, state someone died from a marijuana overdose because they couldn't purchase mm from a dispensary? When you have caregivers making statements like this it harms our cause. Please show me just one human overdose who died, a documented one within the last 20 years! Ok better yet one in the last100 years! That is utter moo poo! If I didn't know better I would say the guy was planted in the crowd to cause doubt!

[mibrains]

Excuse me but did this person named Jason, last name withheld, state someone died from a marijuana overdose because they couldn't purchase mm from a dispensary? When you have caregivers making statements like this it harms our cause. Please show me just one human overdose who died, a documented one within the last 20 years! Ok better yet one in the last100 years! That is utter moo poo! If I didn't know better I would say the guy was planted in the crowd to cause doubt!

 

morning diz..

that's the first thing i thought as well, but after re-reading that statement a few times and deciphering the context i believe its a typo, there are so many typos in this article it makes it hard to comprehend at the speed i read.

i think this editor (of the article) needs a better spelling and grammar checker

[Medcnman]

Excuse me but did this person named Jason, last name withheld, state someone died from a marijuana overdose because they couldn't purchase mm from a dispensary? When you have caregivers making statements like this it harms our cause. Please show me just one human overdose who died, a documented one within the last 20 years! Ok better yet one in the last100 years! That is utter moo poo! If I didn't know better I would say the guy was planted in the crowd to cause doubt!

I think that was a typo and was supposed to say "not one person has died from marijuana use".

[+Dizledot]

...hadnt had my cup of tea yet when I read this. Perhaps the paper needs to be contacted because most people who read fast like I do will mis read this as I did twice. Sometimes I think these things are intentional. Articles about me in my local paper have numerous type-o's or at least they did when I was considered the underdog. Lately I've noticed they are accurate right down to my direct quotes. You can't seem to find any paper that can report the facts with an unbiased opinion.

[The Digital Nomad]

1. why don't they prosecute the doctor for giving a rec to a NON qualified patient? Oh, yea, doctors have $$$ for lawyers.

2. Farmer's market, parking lot deals, club events - you are right, now an LEO can present a legitimate MDCH MMMP card to get in and buy.

(DN's suggestion - don't do business with someone who does not smoke in front of you, know thy patient )

3. The premise of big daddy as i see it - they are running P2P or 'assisting a patient' parts of the MMMAct. Now we know that P2P is being discouraged, at least on a large scale. Do cops care if one patient helps another, do they care about a social event - will they care about a farmer's market?

 

DN

[Purplehaze]

Im am bummed, I missed this, in my backyard to. I am glad you stood up for our Law

 

Thank you

[Medcnman]

...hadnt had my cup of tea yet when I read this. Perhaps the paper needs to be contacted because most people who read fast like I do will mis read this as I did twice. Sometimes I think these things are intentional. Articles about me in my local paper have numerous type-o's or at least they did when I was considered the underdog. Lately I've noticed they are accurate right down to my direct quotes. You can't seem to find any paper that can report the facts with an unbiased opinion.

I dont think there is any media outlet that will publish an unbiased opinion. Unfortunately, the truth is boring and wont sell news. The media often prosecutes innocent victims long before they go to trial. Without "sensationalism" there is no "Journalism". It sucks and its just not right. Medcnman.

[Medcnman]

1. why don't they prosecute the doctor for giving a rec to a NON qualified patient? Oh, yea, doctors have $$$ for lawyers.

2. Farmer's market, parking lot deals, club events - you are right, now an LEO can present a legitimate MDCH MMMP card to get in and buy.

(DN's suggestion - don't do business with someone who does not smoke in front of you, know thy patient )

3. The premise of big daddy as i see it - they are running P2P or 'assisting a patient' parts of the MMMAct. Now we know that P2P is being discouraged, at least on a large scale. Do cops care if one patient helps another, do they care about a social event - will they care about a farmer's market?

 

DN

Most CCs/Dispensaries did not allow medicating on site. Neither does the farm market. Sometimes you just have to trust that your dealing with an honest person. I realize it is getting harder to do these days but we still have to make an attempt to get quality meds to truly sick patients. Thnks, Medcnman.

[mibrains]

what is truly ironic to me is that

 

by committing an morally questionable act by lying to a certification specialist, then also providing false information on a state certified document (a misdemeanor) by filing out and signing the state paperwork

they actually don't even realize they are gathering evidence against themselves.

 

1) they committed the crime by obtaining the card through fraud. (they should have just faked it)

 

2) the law does not provide anyplace that states that big daddy's did anything wrong. transfers are allowed between caregivers. the coa ruling even stated so. this argument about public nuisance has so many holes and flaws in it it makes out law look air tight.

 

3) if they can't understand the difference between a carded member and a non carded member then they are the ones who are lacking. they should be trying to catch big daddy's transferring meds to non-carded members... at least then they would have a case..

 

it seems to me that the political agenda is where the problem arises.

 

if big daddy's did apply for and was granted permission to use the building prior to the moratorium then they should win.

zoning laws will regulate where clubs are located, and each and every township and city in Michigan is subject to them, so every tool that is needed to keep the location, style, signage, color, every detail is already on the books....

all they have to do is quit crying about it and get to work in the planning commission office.

 

 

[LansingAreaCaregiver]

I dont think there is any media outlet that will publish an unbiased opinion. Unfortunately, the truth is boring and wont sell news. The media often prosecutes innocent victims long before they go to trial. Without "sensationalism" there is no "Journalism". It sucks and its just not right. Medcnman.

 

Have you tried? I'm just a regular Joe and the Lansing State Journal published my column. It railed against the proposed changes to the medical marijuana law as well as Bill Schuette, Rick Jones et al. Try submitting something to your paper. Sure the Jokeland Press might not print it, but you may also be pleasantly surprised. Make it well written, well thought out and avoid hyperbole. If you aren't a natural writer, find a friend who is and ask them to help you express your feelings. Just make sure it doesn't read like a "Free love and herb, man..." <--said with a Cheech and Chong accent. That doesn't help the cause.

[Restorium2]

This COA was deciding what was illegal. It found that p2p was illegal. It based that decision on the fact that cg/pt is legal and not a "Sale". Your question is not as straight forward as it seems because the COA was having to lie in order to justify it's decision. If you read the decision it is a heroic jump from (4)(e) to p2p being illegal. Creative writing all the way. The reason being they went to the PHC for definitions(Acquire/Transfer). This was flawed. The Supreme Court has ruled that words should be given their customary and ordinary meanings. This time the court ignored it's mandate by using a law to find the definitions of acquire and transfer. Their ordinary meaning and their meaning under the Public Health Code is very different. So the entire decision was dishonest. It's hard for me to base a honest opinion on a lie. Thanks, BB

Let me phrase it differently;

We have yet to get a court ruling that caregiver to caregiver transfers are legal. And, until we do, it is yet to be decided, there is no legal precedent. Just like patient to patient transfers were before it went to court in a test case.

[petoskeystoned]

How about this tidbit of lack of knowledge. "the marihuana was not located in enclosed, locked facility as required by the MMA". It's comments and misinformation like this that puts people in prison! Were they buying rooted, potted plants?

[cindy48647]

Any word yet from the hearing?

[Timmahh]

the CA vs Mi CoA ruling dealt solely with a PT to Pt transfer for compensation! more specifially the money CA chaged to Host the transfer area via their locker system. the biggest issue they dealt with from what i can tell is the Sale aspect CA was using. and the possession due to the access to the rented lockers best i can tell.

 

 

it did not address any transfer dealing with a CG, and the CoA went as far as to say that is not addressed in that hearing. SO CG legalitys are just as they were prior to the case.

 

as a CG, in the MMMA Definitins it clearly states, A CG can "AQUIRE" medicinal marihuana by Any Means Neccessary.

so a CG can Aquire from another CG, or he can get in his car and drive to colorodo or california, or he can have it air mailed into the state if hes so foolish enough to do so.

 

the law allows for us to get and use our meds, and meds for patients, but no where in ANY law does it say People have to be Intelligent in the way They try to use the law.

 

now we all know, having mmj air lifed in is BEYOND Risky, but guess what, some silly billy is going to try to do it, and will do it, until he gets caught.

 

but as far as CG to any transfers, they are currently in the same place they were prior to the CoA ruling in the Compassionat Apothacary procedings. not any better, not any worse.

[newbie313]

where do they come up with the stuff?

[The Digital Nomad]

Big Daddy has several locations. They closed the Oak Park location.

 

DN