I Believe The State Can No Longer Require The Id Card

[petoskeystoned]

June 17th, 2010 - raided by SANE with 4 sets of paperwork and my doc's rec.

Arrested and charged.

Dec 12th, 2010 - raided by SANE, "notice" on door, 5 cards -

Arrested and charged.

Jan 25th, 2011 - raided by SANE, 5 cards, beaten, strip searched.

Arrested Then charged.

April 11th, 2011 - MDCH raided by SANE

False information and improper disclosure provided to SANE for prosecution.

Dec 5th, 2011 sentencing.

That's what a card will get ya.

[Willy]

and again i ask , why are all the checks being cashed from indianna. think about that for a bit. I see them hiding the money in another state, and another state that doesn't even have medical marijuana. HMM go figure. Think its just a plain rip off. I DO !!

[+budhabit]

I got my card from LARA and it protects me from arrest. I like my card and the protection it gives me.

 

MDCH or LARA, who cares?

 

The Card does not protect you from arrest or forfeiture it may protect you from prosecution or charges being filed against you

[JustanOldALJ]

Or yeah, and another guy smoking in his room at a casino was let go about his business also. I think his girlfriend was messed with for being drunk and disorderly though. They left the patient alone after the card was shown. Like I said, cards are helping patients on a regular basis.

 

I have a client who is a patient and was staying at a casio hotel for a conference. Went to her car for a med hit, drove to a quiet corner of the parking lot. Security saw something (flame?) on cameras and sent the tribal cops. Tribal cops hauled her to management. She was told in no uncertain terms that she was not protected with her MI card at the casino. Yet, everyone agreed that she should go about her merry way if she: 1.) waited a few hours before driving away, 2.) checked out of the hotel, and 3.) didn't come back for 30 days.

 

Cards carry a lot of weight - might not be 100% foolproof, but we are hearing more and more stories of FEDERAL cops who don't want to haul a patient to the slammer for medical use. SOME LEOs hate marijuana. MOST don't want to deal with it anymore. I firsthand heard a PA utter, in response to a MMJ case, "I wish they'd just legalize this shyt already."

 

I have yet to hear of the MSP taking the lead on any organized sting/bust. I think these bears have plenty to deal with already and don't want to get elbows-deep in an MMJ case. In fact, I have another client, also a patient, who was growing his own. 12 beauties in the flower room. He had suffered a break-in where rippers took only his previous flowering plants. So he was concerned about keeping the cycle going and got some cuttings a couple weeks before harvest. He fell upon bad luck when a State cop pulled in his driveway after seeing his car in the driveway and mistaking it for one involved in a high-speed car chase. The girlfriend answered the door, MSP female cop smelled marijuana, and pushed her way in. Just then the local LEO involved in the car chase showed up and said "no that's not the car. I was chasing a MAROON camaro; that one is RED." MSP was already in the home and on the way to the basement. Counted 12 plants and a bunch in Rapid Rooters in the cloner. She plucked a few out, and found a couple with root stubs and then pulled the rest. They took the plants and a gun and shipped it all to MSP crime lab. Fem MSP LEO said "There's a 50/50 chance they will prosecute."

 

That was a year ago. Still no charges.

 

MOST of the time the card works. MOST of the trouble patients and caregivers are enduring is at the hand of LOCAL LEOs who have an axe to grind already - either against marijuana in general or against specific people they already don't like. The local Chief LEO in my town of about 15,000 residents once said "we have a list of about 40 people we keep track of. They cause 90% of the trouble in our area." Guess what, if you are involved in MMJ and you are already in local LEO's sights, you will at some point probably get harassed. BS? probably, but for god's sake, stay off LEOs informal "out to get you list," and probably you won't ever hear from LEO.

 

Final thoughts: Who has heard of any charges filed in MI by the feds, other than the Lansing-area matter with the federal supbeona to MDCH that Bill S bent over on? I don't believe that there were any other federal arrests. John Roberts was raided, and his stuff taken by the feds, but no charges filed. A dicky thing for the feds to do, but by in large, the 100,000+ patients in Michigan have seen only negligble trouble from the state and federal LEOs. It is all at the county and local level.

 

Learn to play the game.

 

There are about 120,000 patients in Michigan. A reasonable estimate as to charges brought against patients for growing/possessing but still within the Act is about 300 cases since the law too keffect. That's one quater of one percent.

 

Your card is 99.75% effective.

 

We have come a long way in Michigan, and we need to spend more time emphasizing this.

Edited November 17, 2011 by JustanOldALJ

[The Digital Nomad]

 

 

Wouldn't that be funny if the bank in Indiana uses the Federal laws to seize or close that account - as it is from 'illegal drug trafficking' - like they closed dispensary bank accounts. According to the DEA, any city employee who is 'facilitating' the 'distribution' of a CS is arrestable, so why not seize the state's accounts that handle the MMPs. I would not be suprised, the feds are broke azz motherfu*kers.

 

DN

[The Digital Nomad]

The Card does not protect you from arrest or forfeiture it may protect you from prosecution or charges being filed against you

 

This is correct, lets get the schematics right - The card can help prevent PROSECUTION, but you can still be arrested. It does not mean you can wave it - and expect immunity from being searched, detained, or even taken to jail overnight. You will be processed up to the point where a magistrate or prosecutor will review the case and either dismiss it or proceed.

 

Forfeiture in Michigan DOES NOT require criminal charges to be filed - Michigan has the worst laws in the USA for forfeiture, they can seize your property - and YOU have to prove it was not from illegal proceeds, or pay about $5,000 to release it (that is why they will try to seize stuff worth $5,000 so you will pay).

 

If you were arrested, they can have at least a year to bring charges against you. For example, they raided Big Daddy's about a year ago - about 9 months later, they issued warrants for their arrest. If they do not bring charges against you, you may still need a lawyer to shut down any investigations on you.

[cristinew]

Sec. 4. (a) A qualifying patient who has been issued and possesses a registry identification card shall not be subject to arrest, prosecution, or penalty in any manner, or denied any right or privilege, including but not limited to civil penalty or disciplinary action by a business or occupational or professional licensing board or bureau, for the medical use of marihuana in accordance with this act, provided that the qualifying patient possesses an amount of marihuana that does not exceed 2.5 ounces of usable marihuana, and, if the qualifying patient has not specified that a primary caregiver will be allowed under state law to cultivate marihuana for the qualifying patient, 12 marihuana plants kept in an enclosed, locked facility. Any incidental amount of seeds, stalks, and unusable roots shall also be allowed under state law and shall not be included in this amount.

 

possesses a registry identification card shall not be subject to arrest, what part of that do they not understand,

[+budhabit]

Sure it does. Happens every day here in Michigan. Patients show their cards and are not getting arrested. A patient must also be in complete compliance for this to work though. Like the guy caught at the casino, the feds let him slide because he had his card.

That Guy also got raided 3 months later and lost a lot but did not get charged

 

 

 

[Reveen]

I feel that PB is right and I agree with the things that have him feed up. But the act of going on a doctor recommendation only, regardless of your reasoning will or at least COULD end you up in jail, prison, probation, the loss of your rights in the future to have the "right" to a card, possible forfeiture of everything you own and the list goes on. That in my view is FAR to great a price to pay when there is a better way to go. I hate to say it but this rings of the "you can't fight city hall" world we live in. You will be as right as rain but they will still cart you off and destroy your life. That said I offer this as food for thought. What if you could LEGALLY avoid sending the MMMP or LARA any applications or the fees that go with them? And what if you could do it without opening your self to all the bad mojo that goes with it? And further, what if you could do this because of what they HAVE NOT changed about the law? Taking a read through the law on the state web site and going through the FAQ section I offer this little slice of loop hole.

 

 

Section 4(j) of the MMMA code states:

A registry identification card or its equivalent issued by another state government to permit the medical use of marihuana by a qualifying patient or to permit a person to assist with a qualify patient's medical use of marihuana has the same force and effect as a registry identification card issued by the Department.

 

Therefore, if you take a trip to another Marijuana tolerant state, apply for and receive a card in that state, you would be legal here in Michigan while paying nothing into the wrongfully used and illegally changed MMMP. That would protect people from police while allowing them to protest the wrongful acts and cut off the flow of money that is being miss-used. Also it would allow a patient or caregiver all the legal rights you would have as a MMMP card holder. I think that if applications for cards started to drop in large numbers and law enforcement started to see more out of state card handed to them (with a copy of section 4j of medical marijuana code attached) when the need arose, rather than Michigan cards, I believe a strong message would be sent to the powers that be. They would be forced to follow the law in order to get the money the want so badly lest they be cut off from the financial benefit they receive from people that STILL have all the rights that the law provides.

 

I now open my thoughts to peer review in the same spirit as PB and look forward to hearing thoughts and concerns.

 

Peace

[peanutbutter]

Interesting ..

 

I sure don't want to be any test case.

 

I guess, in theroy, a person living in New York could get a card issued in Oregon and use it in Michigan.

 

Perhaps a certified friendly visitor service?

 

Or Michigan people getting certified in Oregon?

 

BTW nice first post. thanks

Edited March 5, 2012 by peanutbutter

[Reveen]

Thanks Peanut Butter, no matter what happens now I will always have 1 good post! I so agree with what your getting at in your post and was kind of unaware of the changes that have been made. I' just trying to find a way to reach the same ends with less exposure to police problems. I think if you went to Colorado or California or Oregon and got your card there you could then come home, follow Michigan law with your out of state card, and have some legal leg to stand on. The way they wrote the law is so simple and straight forward and I believe you would have the same protection as if you had a Michigan card and we could still cut off the funding that the state of Michigan is wrongfully collecting. The only thing I can see that would be a problem is if you were not eligible under Michigan law to have a card, due to a conviction of a crime or what have you, and got an out of state card to use here to get around it, they could say that you were in violation of some type of law and come after you. It would be great if there was someone in the legal profession that could weigh in on the matter I think the issue is more important that people realize and I thank you for raising it. It is the systematic breakdown of a law that was voted in by the PEOPLE of the sate and now we have politicians who don't like it trying to destroy it is such a manner that most people not even see it happening. If we allow polititions to go against the will of the peopel we allow polititions to strip us of our rights as Americans and open the door for them to do this again and again on whatever laws the choose. Is there a Laywer in the house?

[cheesewreck]

bottom line is we need UNITY

[Mememe]

definitions

(21) "Visiting qualifying patient" means a patient who is not a resident

of this state or who has been a resident of this state for less than 30 days.

[Mememe]

The Card does not protect you from arrest or forfeiture it may protect you from prosecution or charges being filed against you

 

"Sec. 4. (a) A qualifying patient who has been issued and possesses a registry identification card shall not be subject to arrest,...."

[bobandtorey]

"Sec. 4. (a) A qualifying patient who has been issued and possesses a registry identification card shall not be subject to arrest,...."

 

it may say that today but if we don't get down to Lansing on March 8 @9:30 we could lose it all hope to see you their

[Croppled1]

bottom line is we need UNITY

 

 

Yes and we should not encourage any behaviors that may put patients at risk of hardhips costing tens of thousands of dollars and or even their life as well as years of probation without cannabis . Get a card because no protection is not a wise choice and guard it with your life . It makes us all stronger showing were not afraid to registrar any longer . There are half again as many States now pushing for more reform and 2 for legalization Michigan is not expected to get legalization on the ballot . Some volunteers are having trouble finding new signitures when based in the same locations . They may need more volunteers willing to learn and pound the pavement its not to late .

 

Remember this our enemies are trying to denounce the existance of medical cannabis . They want to tax patient use as a restriction to access . Don't loose your grow rights nor let them tax medical cannabis for patients forcing caregivers to collect it . The Judicial panel has discussed this with exact words to "limit use" . We must keep recreational and medical seperate in peoples minds which our enemies are trying to undo They are trying to call all self grown natural cannabis plant use recreational and restrict us accordingly . There were some transrcipts from the commitee that reflect this but I am sorry I couldnt find that one or where Bill Schuette referred to the Act as a joke . 300 plus Citizens facing prosecution or already tried as felons do not agree . Nor do the 100,000 plus patients registrared .

 

http://blogs.metroti...ot-in-michigan/

 

https://help.repealtoday.org/

 

http://michiganmedic...ical-marihuana/

 

http://cannabiscultu...ttorney-General

Edited March 6, 2012 by Croppled1

[Croppled1]

it may say that today but if we don't get down to Lansing on March 8 @9:30 we could lose it all hope to see you their

 

Mr Redden could the out of State card revelation possibley help you ? Most people could never qualify for out of State cards as residency requirements are not met . I found it sad they wanted to restrict experienced caregivers from out of State for 2 years . This helps nobody . It is fear of outsiders Xenophobia . ! They want to stop the spread of knowledge of activists .

[Croppled1]

June 17th, 2010 - raided by SANE with 4 sets of paperwork and my doc's rec.

Arrested and charged.

Dec 12th, 2010 - raided by SANE, "notice" on door, 5 cards -

Arrested and charged.

Jan 25th, 2011 - raided by SANE, 5 cards, beaten, strip searched.

Arrested Then charged.

April 11th, 2011 - MDCH raided by SANE

False information and improper disclosure provided to SANE for prosecution.

Dec 5th, 2011 sentencing.

That's what a card will get ya.

 

The last I heard was no contact with cardholders would be allowed . Has anyone heard if Mr Neil is ok in prison or did they keep him in County and release him on probation ?

[bobandtorey]

I am not an attorney. I have never been to law school.

 

Below, I state my opinion. I hope that this document will be accepted for “peer review.”

 

I believe the Medical Marihuana Program in Michigan to be void.

 

I believe that any patient in Michigan, who has a doctors letter of recommendation for medical marihuana, has fulfilled their duties under the Michigan Medical Marihuana Act.

 

It is impossible for said patients to proceed with the licensing procedure contained within the law.

 

The law requires that applications be sent to the Department of Community Health. By order of the Governor, the Department halted the receipt of applications.

 

This directly eliminated the ability to submit an application to the department. This department was ordered, by law, by the voters of this state, to accept these applications. This lawful order of the voters has been violated.

 

Furthermore, our Attorney General has assisted in the conversion of a hundred thousand sets of safeguarded information, from applications, into a process of gathering documents of self-incrimination.

 

No law can require a person to surrender their rights against self-incrimination to receive other protections under that law. This was established when Timothy Leary went before the United States Supreme Court in 1969. That case eliminated the Marijuana Federal Tax Stamp Act. The reasoning expressed by the court, in that case, was that the Tax Stamp Act required the applicant for the stamp was required to wave their fifth amendment protection against self-incrimination to receive the stamp.

 

Now the State of Michigan requires patients sign statements, that may be used against them in a court of law, to receive their Medical Marijuana ID card. This status was assisted in implementation by our own State Attorney General.

 

The State has now eliminated the program that was established by law.

 

The Governor of Michigan has caused the MDCH to stop taking applications and the Attorney General has conspired with federal authorities to make every application a signed confession that could be used in court against the applicant.

 

The program has been eliminated by these two officials.

 

Furthermore, the state has converted the program into a tax to be paid by the sick and dying people of Michigan.

 

The MMMA allows fees to be collected in the amount needed to offset the costs of the program. For three years now, the state has collected about three times the amount of fees than it has spent on the program. Much celebration has taken place about the Medical Marihuana Program providing funds to the state coffers.

 

There is no reason to celebrate this theft. The state is siphoning money from the program. This leaves the program under funded. Resulting in state issued ID cards being issued months later than the twenty days required of the state by law.

 

The medical marijuana patient of Michigan has done their duty. We have complied with every requirement place on us by this law.

 

The state has refused to comply in nearly every single aspect.

 

After three years of the state refusing to comply, I feel the program should no longer exist. That we, the patients, should no longer be compelled to deal with a state government that is determined to violate the law against us.

 

I believe the state of Michigan then falls back on section eight of the law.

 

Any patient that has received a doctors letter of recommendation has the complete protection, WITHOUT THE STATE ID CARD.

 

Just like California, thanks to Rick and Bill.

 

i agree you don't need a card you would then be unReg that has been the way the C.O.A has ruled with are case if we were to send are money to the MMMA Lawyers so that they can fight for us all in court when the $$$ stops the state will comply with us

[peanutbutter]

ping

[ilynnboy]

Thanks for top posting this Peanutbutter.

Interesting take on it

[Celliach]

Interesting ..

 

I sure don't want to be any test case.

 

 

 

....and yet you continuously give advice on this forum that could make someone else a test case. If you wouldn't do it, don't post it as advice.

[peanutbutter]

 

 

....and yet you continuously give advice on this forum that could make someone else a test case. If you wouldn't do it, don't post it as advice.

 

I continuously give my opinion. I refuse to let anti logic go unanswered. I refuse to allow a single protection dwindle away because people forgot it was in OUR law.

[Dr. Bob]

You will fight for every protection and right so long as you are not the test case. I believe that was the point of Cel's posting.

 

Dr. Bob

[Celliach]

I continuously give my opinion. I refuse to let anti logic go unanswered. I refuse to allow a single protection dwindle away because people forgot it was in OUR law.

 

But you're not protecting patients, you're putting them in more danger by giving advice that could put them in jail and acting as if it's fact. Your almost just as bad as Leo or Schuette because you are sending people to jail that follow your advice. It's sick. Why anyone would listen to some of the insane interpretations you have of the law, is beyond me. You even have lawyers telling you that you're wrong and you still insist on spreading bad information. You're the very worst thing that could happen to our community. You're like the wolf in sheep's clothing.