A Look Into Longhair's Laboratory

[pic book]

that warehouse is making 700,000 dollars every 2 months i'm not sure if you ever saw a 10 lb plant it is over 12 feet tall and 10 feet wide with 3 months of veg time. its IMPOSSIBLE to hit that indoors unless its a green house type of grow where the sun comes into play not supplemental lighting.

Want to see that plant.

Edited November 19, 2012 by pic book

[pic book]

Need some advice setting up the master bedrooom as a flower-only room of 15 x 25 (with 8-foot ceiling) and C02 for LHB hydro system. I know I need a bigger res than 57 gallon with 19 plants in 5-gallon buckets. Have 1000 watt HPS in-lines bot but thinking(after the purchase a real good time to think huh?) Shud instead go with 600s, not 1000s. Maybe bare bulbs atttached to light rails?

Edited November 18, 2012 by pic book

[mibrains]

 

hey LHB...

 

once again i want to say thank you this is a great thread....

 

i think i may have finally decided to upgrade to your design.. i just had a couple of questions...

 

i see you set a "max number of grow sites" at 20 per reservoir.

 

have you ever daisy chained 2 reservoirs together to increase capacity?

i thought about connecting the two res at the bottom with a maybe 1" -2" line (**edit -it should defiantly have a bigger - say maybe 3" connection near the top.... to prevent accidental pump overflow... so then maybe two reservoir connections**)

and then running the control bucket in and out lines to each end of the two reservoirs...kinda like a daisy chain... or whatever u wanna call it...

 

rather than spend the money as well as run and maintain two separate systems...i thought about modifying your layout to something like whats above... it would allow for a perpetual harvest of 2 plants per week with an 8 week strain.

 

i thought about splitting the reservoirs...

 

and going with a veg and a bloom....

 

but i like the sound logic u have expressed with regards to the plants doing very well on the simple Lucas formula in both veg and bloom so why would i mess with it right?

[LongHairBri]

I make a math mistake above and this is what happens?? I'll try and talk to them again and see if they'll let me take pic's and get the exact stats. 4 lights and some bare bulb supplementation. I was there to help trim, not to interview or take the grand tour. I must have forgotten my press pass that day. I will try and rectify that...WITH PHOTO'S

 

 

anyway, back to the hydro...for now

 

 

multiple sites:

I run 14 without any problem. a couple more wouldn't make too much difference. the down side is you'll be having to top off more offten, and the maximum time you could spend away from home would be shortened. anything much over 16 sites would be getting awufuly close to the point where the rez would be about empty during flood cycles. you'd loose some of the stability of the system too. a big part of why this works so well it having the large amount of water/nutes compaired to the number of plants living in it. I hold a good 30-35 at static level in one of my 14 site bloom loops, then 55 in the rez. thats what? 80+ gallons total and around 6.5 gal per plant......I'd not want to push that much lower. the ppm and pH would start jumping all over the place, and you'd be topping the rez off every other day.........no better than dirt!!

 

connected systems:

I've thought about this before. one way would be if there was a second controller bucket, or somehow, a second float valve in the already crowded control, AND both sets of pumps ran off the same timers for flood/drain control. otherwise you'd be CONSTANTLY trying to keep them sync'd up

 

OR, like your drawing, both barrels were connected, I'd be afraid of trusting a pump to keep from over-filling one side or the other. BUT, by installing bulkheads near the bottom of both barrels to connect them, the water level would stay the same in both when cycling. then by having a pump dump from one side to the other, it would stir them together (said pump could run 24/7). I'd fill and nute from the "extra" side, then let it stir itself in with the pump and d/f cycles. this would avoid the plants ever being exposed to stronger levels of nutes before they're dilluted/mixed into the rest of the water

 

ALSO, I prefer to run larger footprint systems in a circle instead of 1 long run like pictured. it still works in a single line, but I wouldn't want to have a site or two that were "hind teets". especially if the runt sites were in flower

[pic book]

880ppm, 6.2pH...not exactly the target numbers but close enough

So what are the 'target numbers?' 1000 ppm and 5.8 ph?

So the $6 ph pens off ebay are good? how about ppm pens? same thing?

Edited November 18, 2012 by pic book

[LongHairBri]

yep. since they all are cheap crap. why not pay that way?? I measure the tap water to get a baseline so I can check when in doubt. if it's not in that zone, replace. I get 6 of each at a time, but I have a large circle of growers I socialize with, so they never seem to last that long

[pic book]

Quick Build: Looks like could buy 'big boys', add airstones, if could make do with their 3.5 gal pots.

Ebb & Flo has a video on utube touting their version with 5 gal buckets as growing "Monsters."

Edited November 25, 2012 by pic book

[rhinoman]

Hey Bri, Its cool bout the math thing, but some pics would be real nice.

 

 

 

 

 

take care man.

[pic book]

Q-tipper: your elephant trunk and bucket of roots that vegged 8 weeks before flower? Did you use any lighting other than the1000s, like side light? What did that yield (about)?

Edited November 25, 2012 by pic book

[pic book]

Starting building the LHB DWC/EBB&FLOW system, should be a few more days to get everything built and installed.

Also have you ever thought about tapping a 1/4" line off of the flood hose to also top feed the plants?

Toadstool, how'd the buiild come out? Is yours set up to top feed? What advantages do you find in topfeed?

[pic book]

So even with serious heat stress issues you can still pull frosty colas like this one with this syst

 

strain? yield? how long in veg?

Edited November 25, 2012 by pic book

[pic book]

note on boosting yield: on the titan ebb & gro system page, at the bottom, a note by a customer reports on the manufacturer testing their 4- gallon bucket system and reports that they found a 10% increase in yields when using 80% stones with 20% coco fiber vs 100% stones or any other % mix of LECA (viastone).

of course this is without the benefit of an airstone in the buckets (dwc).

Edited November 25, 2012 by pic book

[engineered_excellence]

I have built this system and I'm having problems with the float valve, I bought the 1/2" hydrofarm valve and have a 250 gp pump but it just takes forever to fill the buckets. The float valve has like an 1/8 hole that the water goes through, that gets plugged when the float lifts.. Is it suppose to be this way? It seems like a 60 gph pump would do just fine with the size of hole on there. Or did i get the wrong valve? It looks just like the one in the pics. Because it takes over a half hour to fill it up it trickles out of there. I tried this with and without the relief hole, at first i had it above the water level, and that didnt work at all, all the water came out of there, ad then I moved it under the water level and that works, as well as no relief hole.

 

I actually have some plants going about 4 weeks into flower, I have just been top feeding the buckets with water from the control bucket once a day, they are doing good, here are some pics...... well i have some pics, but I can't seem to get them uploaded, the site is not letting me.

 

edit.. uploaded to imgur

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 28, 2012 by engineered_excellence

[pic book]

Great pics! Good layout showing detail, and white roots abound. I've heard from others, the float does stall things. What strains you running? Those are healthy girls.

Also, curious if Bloom or CAl-Mag is highly acidic? Sometimes ph just heads down below 5, and PH UP only causes it to bounce to 5 for a short while. Res is only 2 weeks old.

Edited November 28, 2012 by pic book

[bigbudsnewbie]

Did you drill a little bigger hole in the float valve? It looks like the black tube from control bucket to rest of system might be slowing the flood down..

[MrShpongle]

I have the exact same problem with the float valve. I had to set my timers to fill for 30 minutes in order to get the proper amount of water into the buckets. It's funny how the 160 gph pump empties the system in 10 minutes, but the 250 gph pump takes 30 minutes to fill it. Not the end of the world, but if I were to build the system again I would either use a smaller pump or find a different float valve.

 

re: the Bloom & Mag-Pro. I use Detroit city water, and these DynaGro nutes drop the pH like a rock. The ProTekt, on the other hand, is highly alkaline, so it balances out the others for the first week. After that, I have to add pH Up on a daily basis until I flush the rez at the two week mark. I remember LHB saying that when you have to fiddle with the pH every day it's time to dump your rez, but I can't bring myself to change it 4 times a month (gets expensive).

[engineered_excellence]

Did you drill a little bigger hole in the float valve? It looks like the black tube from control bucket to rest of system might be slowing the flood down..

 

I think if i drilled out the hole in the float valve, when the float lifts, the stopper might not plug the hole, i will have to look at it more. I do plan on replaceing that black tube with straight pvc, i just didnt have the fitting at home and wanted to get the thing built. That actually is 1/2 tubing on the ground, same as whats going into the plant sites, so its not constricting anything really. The problem isnt with the water getting out of the control bucket to the sites, its getting from the reservoir to the control bucket, it literally is an 1/8 inch hole in that float valve. So its got a 250 gph pump, pumping through 1/2" tube, and trying to push through an 1/8" hole. If i have that 1/2 tube just coming off the pump, it shoots out like a hose, I am suspicious that this might actually be hard on the pump. Also what happens when the float valve shuts off, and the pump is still going? I know theres suppose to be a relief hole in the line, but that seems to just take away from the flow going to the control bucket? Any thoughts on this?

I have the exact same problem with the float valve. I had to set my timers to fill for 30 minutes in order to get the proper amount of water into the buckets. It's funny how the 160 gph pump empties the system in 10 minutes, but the 250 gph pump takes 30 minutes to fill it. Not the end of the world, but if I were to build the system again I would either use a smaller pump or find a different float valve.

 

re: the Bloom & Mag-Pro. I use Detroit city water, and these DynaGro nutes drop the pH like a rock. The ProTekt, on the other hand, is highly alkaline, so it balances out the others for the first week. After that, I have to add pH Up on a daily basis until I flush the rez at the two week mark. I remember LHB saying that when you have to fiddle with the pH every day it's time to dump your rez, but I can't bring myself to change it 4 times a month (gets expensive).

 

I just sent a message to pic book about my thoughts on pH, heres what i wrote:

 

When I first fill my res, I do the 5ml magpro, 10 ml of bloom and 5 ml of pro-tekt per gallon and i have to add about 2.5-5 ml of pH down per gallon to get my ph at 5.8, and my ppm is usually right at about 1000 give or take. I let them have that for a week or two and when the water level gets a little low, I check and I'm usually at like 1300 ppm and 5.2-5.4, so I just add back plain water which mine is at about 6.8-7 ph, and it brings the ppm down to 1000 and the ph back up to 5.8. Sometimes the plants are drinking and sometimes they are feeding, when the ph goes down and the ppm goes up they are drinking, and when the ppm goes down and the ph goes up they are feeding. I never have to add ph up, if my ppm is down and my ph is down, i just add back the amount of nutes and water without the ph down.

 

I am using my well water, taken before the softener, and i get some particles in the bottom, and some calcium/mineral buildup, but i dont let it bother me. I do not use a filter, but i havent had to yet. I've always been suspicious of my water and whats in it, i suspect its high in calcium. It comes out of the well at about 250 ppm and 6.8-7 ph. But I think that i had other things going on in the past that cause problems, I think mainly the GH nutes just didnt work with my water, i even tried the hard water formula. What i got going now is my most consistent run and I am getting good at reading the plants and the ppm/ph and making adjustments. One thing i can say about LHB's method compared to straight dwc or uncdercurrent dwc, is that the plants get flooded to the top a few times a day, instedf of the water level being under the net pot all the time, this lets a lot more roots grow out the sides of the net pot and creates a bigger mass, before, mot of my roots grow out the bottome, they get really thick right where they come out of the net pot and then the ball of fime roots is below, instead of one big solid ball of fine roots throughout. I think the next thing I will try if this run isnt better, is going to be a compast tea to keep the roots healthier. This is what im talking about with my well water, my roots are never that white, and i think they could be healthier.

[LongHairBri]

you need to drill the valve hole larger. I make the hole a couple sizes bigger/ like 1/4 or even 3/8

 

as long as it mostly stops the water when floating, and your not running the pump for 30min to flood, a little leakage past the float is fine.

 

as for the pH....I wait till the next day to test. it always comes out low when freshly filled. + I want the rez and static water to mix before adjusting.

 

I'll wager that if you wait 24hrs before testing, you'll use way less pH up, if any.

 

 

it's all about balance. you don't want huge swings in ppm or ph. if your rez ppm is climbing quickly as the water level gets lower, your feeding too high. if there is a drop in ppm's, the plants want more. you shouldn't ever get lower than 750 or above 1300ppm whenever you test. if you are, change your target

 

for using ph as clue to change rez. it gets where the ph is rising every time you check and adjusting only holds it for a day or so.....time to change

[engineered_excellence]

you need to drill the valve hole larger. I make the hole a couple sizes bigger/ like 1/4 or even 3/8

 

as long as it mostly stops the water when floating, and your not running the pump for 30min to flood, a little leakage past the float is fine.

 

 

Good to know, you should add that note to your instructions on the first page. What about the relief hole in the fill hose? Where do you locate that? I found that having it under the water level amounts to lower loss of flow.... Man, drilling out that hole is going to change my life... I can't wait to get home. I thought about drilling it but didnt want to ruin it, especially if it was the wrong one.

 

As far as pH and ppm goes, it seems I am adding back a diluted nutrient solution or plain water more often than adding back a mix that is over 1000 ppm to bring it up. More often than not, when i go to fill up, my ph is low 5's and ppm is around 1300, so i just add plain water and it brings me right where i need to be. Occassionally, my ph will be at 6 or so and the ppm around 900. Is there anything that can be happening with the nutrient solution that would be adding PPM, besides just becoming more concentrated by water loss/usage? For instance say the roots break down a little which im sure happens, leaving some particles. Does this raise the EC/ppm? or does organic material not raise the EC?

 

Even though i am getting decent results, i am somehow still convinced my well water is not ideal. I sometimes want to blame things on the water, but at the same time, I want the water to be just fine so I dont have to get RO or anything else. There is not much straight-talk on the web about using well water, softened or not, or whatever... it seems you can find successes and failures with each. So maybe it really isnt my water, its other things, more like environmental things, temps, humidity, res temps, amount of fresh air....etc...

[LongHairBri]

the vacuum break is installed in the hose from rez pump to float valve (fill hose). locate the hole and barb fitting inside the rez, just below the exit hole. I put a 90* barb fitting in there, keeps the hole from closing and you can direct the stream to the side eliminating the splash noise when pump is on.

 

DON'T MISS THIS STEP!! without a vacuum break, when the fill pump turns off it will contine to siphon nutes down to the float valve, over- filling and possibly spilling over.

[engineered_excellence]

the vacuum break is installed in the hose from rez pump to float valve (fill hose). locate the hole and barb fitting inside the rez, just below the exit hole. I put a 90* barb fitting in there, keeps the hole from closing and you can direct the stream to the side eliminating the splash noise when pump is on.

 

DON'T MISS THIS STEP!! without a vacuum break, when the fill pump turns off it will contine to siphon nutes down to the float valve, over- filling and possibly spilling over.

 

I did EXACTLY this…. With the little elbow and everything, and when the pump kicked on, water was just coming out of the vacuum break, not getting to the float valve. So I moved the vacuum break hole to only a few inches above the pump, under the water level, and that seemed to get the flow through to the float valve.. plus, absolutely no noise or spraying inside the res. But this was all with only the 1/8” hole in the float valve… so I’m guessing once I drill out the float valve, all will be good in life, and I could move the vacuum break back up to where you are saying.

 

Oh ya.. LHB, how about some action shots of your flower room with this system rocking?

[LongHairBri]

having it set too low won't work consistantly. if the water level is higher than the hole, like after topping off, it won't break the siphon

 

 

drill out the float and move hole high enough that it will be out of the water when system is full (depending on how many sites you have)

[engineered_excellence]

having it set too low won't work consistantly. if the water level is higher than the hole, like after topping off, it won't break the siphon

 

 

drill out the float and move hole high enough that it will be out of the water when system is full (depending on how many sites you have)

Don't put the vacuum break under the water line or it won't work. It works by air getting into the tubing to break the siphon created within the tubing when it goes up and over the lip of the reservoir. If it is under the water line when the pump turns off it will just keep filling until the reservoir is empty.

 

I can't believe I let this slip by me... I knew in the back of my head I shouldn't have it under the water level, I was frustrated and trying it due to the issue with the float valve hole being too small and no water getting through..lol I should have realized that this would just cause an uninterupted siphon.. I am Civil Engineer! I freakin design water and sewer systems for cities! practice and theory are worlds apart!!!

[engineered_excellence]

One time i left an air hose.. a 1/8" air hose, hanging over an 18 gallon tub of water, next day i came back to the tub nearly empty with my feet sloshing, took me a few minutes to realize what had happened..it was a facepalm moment.

[engineered_excellence]

I got the float valve drilled out to 3/16" i think, it was like 1/16" of an inch to begin with. With the 250 gph pump, this is about a 1/2 gallon a minute, which fills the system in about 16-18 minutes.. I only have 4 plant sites going right now, working on adding 4 more. My smaller return pump has a dial on it to control flow, so I can tinker with that to get this working right. I think the advantage of this system over regular DWC is the flooding of the bet pot to the top, it promotes root growth within the net pot, and out the sides of the net pot, in normal dwc, you don't see this as much. The advantage over traditional ebb and flow, is having the air stones in each site and leaving a couple gallons of water in there makes the roots nice and happy.

Edited November 29, 2012 by engineered_excellence