The Importance Of Decarboxylation In Edible Making

[GrowGoddess]

I know for me I'm not interested in any buds harvested more than a month ago. My patients feel the same way. Extracts keep longer for me, under vacuum in dark glass. but they have a shelf life for us also, about 3 months. color changes are my first indicator in trichomes, and absolute or concrete extractions.

 

That is really too bad. When I was making oil, I made large quantities. I have oil that was made about a year ago and the potency has not changed since it reached maximum potency. I keep it quadruple sealed in a cool dark environment.

 

As for the oil degrading, that is where I feel sorry for you. Must be the method? I have been eating oil that is more than two years old and it has not degraded a bit. For over a year it has been left in my safe just in the syringe. A quality syringe with triple seals. The only change is that it got a bit thicker. The quantity or potency did not change.

 

Try my methods and you will see I am correct. Unless the strains used is the difference.

[GrowGoddess]

Sounds more like CBN increase.

 

That is kind of hypocritical for you to even suggest that.

 

After how many times you have told the community, especially Northern Labs, that testing is worthless, for entertainment and gimmick purposes only.

 

It appears that you are incorrect.

 

I wonder how you can be accurate about the CBN content since you don't believe in testing or methods used. (must be clairvoyant)

 

I 100% guarantee it is not CBN. There is no logic to that statement. No common sense to that statement either. You are great with politics, stick with it.

 

Any oil makers out there? I am sure you all could back this up. First, as soon as the oil is made and sucked up into the syringes, while it is still warm, you can take an extremely large dose and it will not have the intense effects. CBN? I think not. It is high THCa. It takes time for it to decarb to THC. It is more comfortable buzz right out of the purge pan, nice and warm and fresh. Any oil makers out there disagree when it comes to RSO?

 

Maybe if it is over purged or over heated and caused damage that is not the case. I have tried that just to know, and it is a different buzz and there is no cure time with it. It is what it is.

 

Where is the logic in it suddenly converting to CBN three weeks later for example? The big change taking place in a 24-48 hour period in a cool dark environment. No logic in that. Anyway, What is happening is the THCa converting to THC. I am confident of this. CBN? I should quote your other comment, but I will just finish it here. You don't make concentrates using the RSO method because of CBN? Where did you dream that up from? The last reputable test result I have seen on an RSO sample showed 95% THC and 0 CBN. WOW! How did they do that? Maybe the tooth fairy? That's right, you don't believe in testing, not even the top notch California facilities eh? I still don't believe you have ever ingested real RSO.

 

If you ask me, my best guess, the reason why you like your oven better and your product does not mess with your heart is because you are actually lacking THC. Doesn't THC effect your blood pressure and increase your heart rate? If you ask me, since it is an oven and you are not using a solvent to aid in the decarb process, you are creating many CBNs from overheating the outer parts, the central heating aspect gives you THC, and what does not get decarbed, which is probably most that did not vape away, is THCa. That is from experience. It has been about 4 years now, haven't missed a dose yet.

 

Either way, that is my opinion. No interest in a debate.

[trichcycler]

 I wouldn't say the oil doesn't cause an effect,(potency) only that the effect is different than the effect of fresher oil, and less desirable to me and my patients.

The oil is definitely degrades with time, as do the trichomes the oil is made of, along with their contents. Its visible degradation under a microscope, and detectable in both color and effect. The chemical breakdown is different, and terpenes are lost.Taste is still good, yet different. some folks like hard peaches, some prefer soft riper ones is all. I love to hear about others' likes and dislikes. I'm blessed with a registry that often shares mine, of course, making my cg job that much more pleasurable.

 

peace out

[GrowGoddess]

Well, GM you may be right about the color degrading, especially when left out in the open. I have a feeling you never actually held on to any oil for one or two years. I assure you my oil that is stored in syringes, in a sealed jar, has not degraded whatsoever in any manner. My other oil was kept in a syringe, in a sealed jar for one year, then kept in the syringe just in the safe for the second year. Thicker and a bit darker, but still potent. Believe me, I am the one eating and vaping it.

Keep in mind, in a syringe the oil kind of creates its own seal.

 

I have a picture of my two year old oil. Still vaping and eating it. The buzz is the same.

 

[+Malamute]

Unfortunately for you GG I understand science.

 

 Go ride your broom to a science class.

 

 You are just wrong on this one.

[+Malamute]

Cannabis produces phyto cannabinoids in a carboxylic acid form that are not orally active at least at the CB-1 receptor sites, because they don’t readily pass the blood brain barrier in their polar form.

 

To enable them to pass the blood brain barrier, they must first be decarboxylated, to remove the COOH carboxyl group of atoms, which exits in the form of H20 and CO2.

 

Decarboxylation occurs naturally with time and temperature, as a function of drying, but we can shorten the amount of time required considerably, by adding more heat.  The more heat, the faster it occurs, within reasonable ranges, and in fact occurs spontaneously when the material is burned or vaporized.

 

There is another mechanism at play however, which suggests that we need to control the decarboxylation temperatures carefully.

When we heat cannabis to convert the THCA and CBDA into THC and CBD, we are also converting THC to CBN at a faster rate. 

 

At about 70% decarboxylation, we actually start converting THC to CBN at a faster rate than we are converting THCA to THC, so as you can see by the following graph, after about 70% decarboxylation, the levels of THC actually start to fall sharply.

 

That of course means that the CBN also begins to rise and the medication is becoming more sedative.

 

We can’t expect dry material placed in an oven at any given temperature to be that uniform temperature throughout instantly upon placing it in a heated oven, nor know for sure the state of decarboxylation by simple observation.

 

Decarboxylating plant material, also alters the taste (roasted/toasted), which some find less agreeable, and of course decarboxylating also evaporates away the smaller Monoterpenes and Sequiterpenes alcohols, phenols, ketones, aldehydes, ethers, and esters.

[+Malamute]

That is kind of hypocritical for you to even suggest that.

 

After how many times you have told the community, especially Northern Labs, that testing is worthless, for entertainment and gimmick purposes only.

 

It appears that you are incorrect.

 

I wonder how you can be accurate about the CBN content since you don't believe in testing or methods used. (must be clairvoyant)

 

I 100% guarantee it is not CBN. There is no logic to that statement. No common sense to that statement either. You are great with politics, stick with it.

 

Any oil makers out there? I am sure you all could back this up. First, as soon as the oil is made and sucked up into the syringes, while it is still warm, you can take an extremely large dose and it will not have the intense effects. CBN? I think not. It is high THCa. It takes time for it to decarb to THC. It is more comfortable buzz right out of the purge pan, nice and warm and fresh. Any oil makers out there disagree when it comes to RSO?

 

Maybe if it is over purged or over heated and caused damage that is not the case. I have tried that just to know, and it is a different buzz and there is no cure time with it. It is what it is.

 

Where is the logic in it suddenly converting to CBN three weeks later for example? The big change taking place in a 24-48 hour period in a cool dark environment. No logic in that. Anyway, What is happening is the THCa converting to THC. I am confident of this. CBN? I should quote your other comment, but I will just finish it here. You don't make concentrates using the RSO method because of CBN? Where did you dream that up from? The last reputable test result I have seen on an RSO sample showed 95% THC and 0 CBN. WOW! How did they do that? Maybe the tooth fairy? That's right, you don't believe in testing, not even the top notch California facilities eh? I still don't believe you have ever ingested real RSO.

 

If you ask me, my best guess, the reason why you like your oven better and your product does not mess with your heart is because you are actually lacking THC. Doesn't THC effect your blood pressure and increase your heart rate? If you ask me, since it is an oven and you are not using a solvent to aid in the decarb process, you are creating many CBNs from overheating the outer parts, the central heating aspect gives you THC, and what does not get decarbed, which is probably most that did not vape away, is THCa. That is from experience. It has been about 4 years now, haven't missed a dose yet.

 

Either way, that is my opinion. No interest in a debate.

 

 

 Some day GG you will simply come to the realization that i know everything you could possibly know around the topic of marijuana and much much more...

 

 Thanks for the insults so i dont feel guilty just saying it to you finally.

[Restorium2]

Some day GG you will simply come to the realization that i know everything you could possibly know around the topic of marijuana and much much more...

 

 Thanks for the insults so i dont feel guilty just saying it to you finally.

Very well put.

 

My brother has the CBN heart thing too. If you wouldn't have figured it out I still would be wondering why his heart races after injesting cannabis oil. Thanks for the eureka moment... again. Everyone is different and we need to understand that as we help each other with using cannabis as a medication.

[GregS]

 

Cannabis produces phyto cannabinoids in a carboxylic acid form that are not orally active at least at the CB-1 receptor sites, because they don’t readily pass the blood brain barrier in their polar form.

 

To enable them to pass the blood brain barrier, they must first be decarboxylated, to remove the COOH carboxyl group of atoms, which exits in the form of H20 and CO2.

 

Decarboxylation occurs naturally with time and temperature, as a function of drying, but we can shorten the amount of time required considerably, by adding more heat.  The more heat, the faster it occurs, within reasonable ranges, and in fact occurs spontaneously when the material is burned or vaporized.

 

There is another mechanism at play however, which suggests that we need to control the decarboxylation temperatures carefully.

When we heat cannabis to convert the THCA and CBDA into THC and CBD, we are also converting THC to CBN at a faster rate. 

 

At about 70% decarboxylation, we actually start converting THC to CBN at a faster rate than we are converting THCA to THC, so as you can see by the following graph, after about 70% decarboxylation, the levels of THC actually start to fall sharply.

 

That of course means that the CBN also begins to rise and the medication is becoming more sedative.

 

We can’t expect dry material placed in an oven at any given temperature to be that uniform temperature throughout instantly upon placing it in a heated oven, nor know for sure the state of decarboxylation by simple observation.

 

Decarboxylating plant material, also alters the taste (roasted/toasted), which some find less agreeable, and of course decarboxylating also evaporates away the smaller Monoterpenes and Sequiterpenes alcohols, phenols, ketones, aldehydes, ethers, and esters.

I'd sure like to see that graph Mal. Decarbing my stuff is a little too much like guesswork, although it does work very well.

[Restorium2]

I'd sure like to see that graph Mal. Decarbing my stuff is a little too much like guesswork, although it does work very well.

Go over to Skunkpharm and see all the amazing information on oil. http://skunkpharmresearch.com/getting-the-green-and-waxes-out-afterwards/ Edited June 2, 2014 by Restorium2

[Norby]

Very well put.

 

My brother has the CBN heart thing too. If you wouldn't have figured it out I still would be wondering why his heart races after injesting cannabis oil. Thanks for the eureka moment... again. Everyone is different and we need to understand that as we help each other with using cannabis as a medication.

I thought it was THC that made your heart race?  CBN relaxes or sedates.  My heart sure races from stuff I've had tested that is .01% CBN so I think there is something else causing it too.  Dang servers messed up.  My last post didn't appear.  Luckily I copied, here it is.

 

That's with heat decarbing past 70%.  I have a hard time believing that an oil would turn to cbn that quick with no heat.  I see 99.9% decarbed oils on iron labs site and they are all still less than 1% cbn(or one milligram per 100 milligrams THC).  Much lower on ones that weren't heated to decarb fully(or heated but not full decarb time).  Plant material tested ranges from .01% to .15%.  So the fully heat decarbed(guessing with 99.9% decarb) are still 5-10 X the amount of CBN but still very low in the mix.  I'd love to see the tests on natural decarb. Since GG doesn't heat to decarb, just to boil off fumes I'd be real surprised if it degraded that quick.  The one paper I saw on storage said that hash and oils lasted way longer than bud because they were protected from light and heat and the outside of the hash was the only part that degraded near quick as buds.

 

Sorry Mal but you'll have to come up with better info to convince me.  I just don't buy it.  If THC turned to CBN that quick in a closed environ I think we'd all be in trouble as our unsealed bud would only last a couple weeks, tops.

Edited June 2, 2014 by Norby

[Restorium2]

I thought it was THC that made your heart race?  CBN relaxes or sedates.  My heart sure races from stuff I've had tested that is .01% CBN so I think there is something else causing it too.  Dang servers messed up.  My last post didn't appear.  Luckily I copied, here it is.

 

That's with heat decarbing past 70%.  I have a hard time believing that an oil would turn to cbn that quick with no heat.  I see 99.9% decarbed oils on iron labs site and they are all still less than 1% cbn.  Much lower on ones that weren't heated to decarb fully(or heated but not full decarb time).  Plant material tested ranges from .01% to .15%.  So the fully heat decarbed(guessing with 99.9% decarb) are still 5-10 X the amount of CBN but still very low in the mix.  I'd love to see the tests on natural decarb. 

 

Sorry Mal but you'll have to come up with better info to convince me.  I just don't buy it.  If THC turned to CBN that quick in a closed environ I think we'd all be in trouble as our unsealed bud would only last a couple weeks, tops.

Like I said, go over to SkunkPharms and educate yourself about this process. The way they explain it's very simple. I'm sure you can find the link I posted earlier. Dig around a little on their web site. It's common knowledge among folks who do their research. Most folks wouldn't even notice THC converting to CBN. It's a rare bird that has their heart race. No one needs to guess or argue when the facts about this are plain as day. Always remember it's about correct info and not about whos side you are on, hint hint. Edited June 2, 2014 by Restorium2

[+Malamute]

THC can make the heart race... no question.  But THC does not trigger my Atrial Fibrillation. 

 

CBN is known for causing more of the uncomfortable aspects(for some) of the marijuana experience and also may increase the effects(and side effects) of THC. <--- attn: GG

 

I would not depend on Iron Labs as your end all by any means. They do not use the proper equipment yet. Ask them how they test for mold as one minor example... ;-)

 

 Anyhow,... it is a slower degradation as you have mentions Norby,.. 100% true.  But it is still degrading.  Think of it like vacuum sealed items in your freezer compared to ziploc bagged.  They are both degrading in your freezer, but one simply takes longer because of less O2 etc.

 

Actually I am surprised people would even question CBN issues and take any offense whatsoever to mentioning the increase of CBN over time and that it can have negative results for some people.  :-)  Not a big deal GG.  Just a few broken chains off the ol molecule aye.

[+Malamute]

One of the problems with CBN is the lack of studies done on it.  But, it has also been seen that the effects can be different between small mammal test studies and humans.  And in the end, all I was saying is that I prefer not to use means in which I get a higher rate of CBN.

 

 Many people absolutely prefer higher levels of CBN and peachy keen kudos to everyone that does. :-)

[Norby]

CBN actually negatively effects my heart so I would never use that process. I use ice extraction then simply melting the kief into whatever oil based product I am cooking at that moment.  Keeps CBN as minimal as possible.

 

 Many people like CBN though(those that generally prefer oil/hash).  To each his own aye. :-)

What temps do you cook at?  I'd think that cooking a batch of brownies that reaches 300+ for 15 minutes would do worse than naturally decarbing.  All that mass has to cool after leaving the oven.  I'd think the kief would reach a higher CBN rate (%wise) than naturally decarbing.  And if you put the oil right in the pan for a linguine prima vera or something it would be even worse.

  I'd stick to the capsules because the way I make oil it doesn't get above 140 for the whole evap process and reaches near 200 for 5 minutes to finish.  My oil caps would get less hi temps than your cooked food.  My temps are still on the decarbing range at over an hour at 140.  Unfortunately the graph doesn't go further but I'd think that the rate at under 170 would go on for quite a while before hitting the 70% mark and then starting to degrade to CBN.

 

It seems that adding kief to coconut oil and just adding heat to dissolve it might be better if it's that much of a worry.  A lot could probably be gleamed by hitting the iron labs site and just looking at CBN/THC levels for the edibles.  Lots of info missing like decarb temps and time but you can see granola bars and things that would have to be cooked and you can compare all the RSO's that are 99.9 decarbed as opposed to 90%, etc.

[Norby]

Like I said, go over to SkunkPharms and educate yourself about this process. The way they explain it's very simple. I'm sure you can find the link I posted earlier. Dig around a little on their web site. It's common knowledge among folks who do their research. Most folks wouldn't even notice THC converting to CBN. It's a rare bird that has their heart race. No one needs to guess or argue when the facts about this are plain as day. Always remember it's about correct info and not about whos side you are on, hint hint.

Cardiovascular Effects of Cannabis

 

One of the most consistent effects of cannabis intoxication is an increased heart rate. For this reason alone it would not be normally recommended for patients with cardiovascular problems. However, THC also acts as a smooth-muscle relaxant, relaxing the walls of the arteries, which can result in lower blood pressure and increased blood flow to the tissues[ii][iii]. The effect taken together is analogous to a car changing down a gear.

 

Cannabis intoxication has been found to reduce the level of exercise which can be tolerated before the onset of angina[iv].to a greater extent than a high-nicotine tobacco cigarette[v]. Cardiovascular symptoms have been attributed to cannabis use, either alone (stroke)[vi], or in combination with alcohol and cocaine[vii].

 

The presence and action of CB1 cannabinoid receptors in arterial tissue was described by Bilginger et al[viii], who reported: "the data demonstrate that cannabinoid signalling is involved with the regulation of the microvascular environment" Cannabinoids such as CBD and the synthetic HU-211[ix] have been shown to reduce ischaemic cell damage following cardiac arrest or stroke. CBD also counteracts the increase in heart-rate associated with THC[x] - THC and CBN both appear to increase heart rate, while CBD tends to decrease heart rate. There is conflicting evidence as to whether changes in cardiovascular function are related to myocardial contractility[xi][xii]. Animal studies are conflicting, the effect in dogs appears opposite to that in humans[xiii][xiv]. Part of the increase in heart rate can be counteracted by use of beta-blocker drugs[xv], but not by opiate antagonists such as Naloxone[xvi]. From a clinical study of long-term marijuana smokers, Tashkin et al[xvii] concluded "in long-term heavy users of cannabis, marihuana has no significant effect on myocardial contractility independent of its effect on heart rate."

 

It says nothing on SKPH about making your heart race. It does say in a scientific study that both make your heart race.  Maybe he should add some CBD to counter that.

I thought you were one who didn't believe in the tests?  So how did he find out it was CBN that made his heart race and not THC?  And I'm not on anyone's side except the correct info about natural decarbing.  Sorry SKPH doesn't have the info on nat decarb and the rate of conversion to CBN.  And as I said if the oil was degrading instead of decarbing our buds left in something not sealed would degrade faster than 2 weeks!  Your right it's not about sides it's about the truth.  Maybe you should take your own advice!

 

And if he has a heart problem then he should be very interested in what's actually happening in each circumstance, not just argueing to be right. This is serious stuff.  So if you don't trust Iron Labs for your testing who do you trust Mal?  Cause I'd like to switch to them.

Edited June 2, 2014 by Norby

[+Malamute]

It absolutely does Norby.  I rarely ever make medibles anymore. But as you said, the cooking increases it as well depending on internal temps and for how long they are maintained.  CBN is being created constantly. Duiring the whole growth process and it increases from the second you cut your plant down.  CBN production, production is the wrong word really, is occurring up to the 70% mark and simply increases quicker than THC from that point on, as example. 

 

 I mean, I know many people that love it.  Hash is packed with it and it can give you that foggy ya wish your head could open up and yawn feeling. hahaha...

[GregS]

Cardiovascular Effects of Cannabis

 

One of the most consistent effects of cannabis intoxication is an increased heart rate. For this reason alone it would not be normally recommended for patients with cardiovascular problems. However, THC also acts as a smooth-muscle relaxant, relaxing the walls of the arteries, which can result in lower blood pressure and increased blood flow to the tissues[ii][iii]. The effect taken together is analogous to a car changing down a gear.

 

Cannabis intoxication has been found to reduce the level of exercise which can be tolerated before the onset of angina[iv].to a greater extent than a high-nicotine tobacco cigarette[v]. Cardiovascular symptoms have been attributed to cannabis use, either alone (stroke)[vi], or in combination with alcohol and cocaine[vii].

 

The presence and action of CB1 cannabinoid receptors in arterial tissue was described by Bilginger et al[viii], who reported: "the data demonstrate that cannabinoid signalling is involved with the regulation of the microvascular environment" Cannabinoids such as CBD and the synthetic HU-211[ix] have been shown to reduce ischaemic cell damage following cardiac arrest or stroke. CBD also counteracts the increase in heart-rate associated with THC[x] - THC and CBN both appear to increase heart rate, while CBD tends to decrease heart rate. There is conflicting evidence as to whether changes in cardiovascular function are related to myocardial contractility[xi][xii]. Animal studies are conflicting, the effect in dogs appears opposite to that in humans[xiii][xiv]. Part of the increase in heart rate can be counteracted by use of beta-blocker drugs[xv], but not by opiate antagonists such as Naloxone[xvi]. From a clinical study of long-term marijuana smokers, Tashkin et al[xvii] concluded "in long-term heavy users of cannabis, marihuana has no significant effect on myocardial contractility independent of its effect on heart rate."

 

It says nothing on SKPH about making your heart race. It does say in a scientific study that both make your heart race.  I thought you were one who didn't believe in the tests?  So how did he find out it was CBN that made his heart race and not THC?  And I'm not on anyone's side except the correct info about natural decarbing.  Sorry SKPH doesn't have the info on nat decarb and the rate of conversion to CBN.  And as I said if the oil was degrading instead of decarbing our buds left in something not sealed would degrade faster than 2 weeks!  Your right it's not about sides it's about the truth.  Maybe you should take your own advice!

 

And if he has a heart problem then he should be very interested in what's actually happening in each circumstance, not just argueing to be right. This is serious stuff.  So if you don't trust Iron Labs for your testing who do you trust Mal?  Cause I'd like to switch to them.

I have gone to see my cardiologist, who insists cannabis is dangerous because it causes fast heart rates, and smoked on my way there for the purpose of finding what increased rate he was talking about. It was Sour Diesel. I said nothing about it, my vitals were excellent, the ECG was unremarkable, and neither the staff who took them nor the doctor remarked that anything was wrong. I did have someone to drive me.

Edited June 2, 2014 by GregS

[+Malamute]

I have never said I do not believe in testing,... I have always said the testing being done and the equipment used by almost all of the hack supposed labs is sub par and the results can vary by as much as +-20%.  To be clear. 

 

Whackos think I am against science, but the fact is, I am already ten steps ahead of them on the topic. :-) 

 

And yes,.. what I said about the heart issue...  I think you simply are pointing out what I am saying...

 

 Also,... I would look at the studies done by Rhee as well as some followups to it done by others so you can understand receptors, affinity, binding, immune(CB2), CNS(CB1)  and the transformation effects of ethyl and hydro conversions. It may give you some insight into the topic.  It may help you understand why people with immune system problems are looking for high cb2 receptivity, what has affinity to cb2 receptors, and why what we are talking about is targeted to that issue in hopes of helping.

 

I could really talk all day about it, but I will not type all day about it.  en vivo knows me and we both have a pretty intricate understanding of the biological processes at hand.  He seems to have more energy than myself lately, maybe he will help you with links or more info. :-)

[Norby]

  Iron labs being wrong by +-20%.  So your saying I'm throwing my money away? No thanks. I have no need to read up on receptors as the idea of bud decarbing or degrading has nothing to do with that.  Remember, we are talking about THC to CBN conversion rate in natural decarb as opposed to buds left on the table. 

 

So if there is that much error at Iron Labs which lab would you recommend?  And what info would you even believe?  As I said, I'll search out the paper on degradation of buds, hash and oil and that should get the answer right there.  If it says oils don't degrade but at 1/10th or 1/20th the rate of buds left out then you'd get more CBN from a 2-8 week old bud.  If the decarb chart is right then 177f for 2-3 hours to cook off the iso shouldn't even hardly decarb the oil let alone cause degradation from THC to CBN.

 

As I said it's all about what % are actually happening.  What about smoking?  Wouldn't those temps also create CBN much faster than vaping?

 

Science isn't the problem, it's the math.

Edited June 2, 2014 by Norby

[+Malamute]

Please go read the science, not the conjecture.

 

Meet back here in a year or two when ya figure it out. :-)

[Norby]

Please go read the science, not the conjecture.

 

Meet back here in a year or two when ya figure it out. :-)

ok, after I look up that paper on THC degradation in the types I listed.  Meet you back here in a year or 2 when you figure out the math.

  There is no way that the 2-6 week increase in potency is from degradation rather than decarboxylization.  Not at the temps for iso extract and not in the time given.  And like I said if it did then our buds increase in CBD at an exponetial rate since light and oxygen are responsible for more rapid degradation.

 

So you won't give me a lab you'll accept reports from and you won't look at the degradation paper?  Guess you win, you can think what you want.  although don't try and pull the wool over my eyes.  Quite an ego. Since your so much ahead why can't u give me a lab you'll trust.  How do you get so far ahead if you can't even find a lab you'll trust to confirm your thoughts?

[+Malamute]

Please go understand the chemical processes at hand and the biologicical interaction of said chemical processes in degradation and chain conversion.

 

 I am being 100% serious.  It is a waste of my time to try to type out what takes a lot of education to understand.  I beg you to go learn. Please do it. 

 

 Someday you will be like,... " Hmm,.. he did know what he was talking about,... but he is still arsehole".... and I accept that. :-)

 

But honestly,... it is hard to have a discussion on these topics when I have to start by explaining basic chemistry.

 

And your sentence about degradation or decarboxylation is kinda silly if you understand it.

[Northern Lab]

I don't do testing anymore, but if I were to get back into it my equipment list would look something like this:

 

HP Agilent 7890 with a mass spectrometer.

 

HP 1100 liquid chromatograph with at least a diode detector.

 

Moisture balance

 

Multiple Incubators for biologicals

 

Colony counter

 

100x trinocular microscope

 

If one was to buy all these items brand new, you'd pay upwards of $250k all told. Refurbished would be half of that.

 

What I had was a 5890 II with and FID and ECD. One of the oldest modern GC's on the market. It was a useful tool, but i don't think the results would be accepted under any law, even though the state probably has a few still in operation at some of their state labs.

Edited June 2, 2014 by Northern Lab

[+Malamute]

Useful tool indeed. :-)  I have never said it isn't interesting, fun and useful.

 

 But.... :-)

 

 Good to see ya Northern...er read ya.