The Importance Of Decarboxylation In Edible Making

[Restorium2]

And just to make you happy; If you are below the boiling point of water it's not the water bubbling. You would need to be much more specific about all aspects of your oil to get a better answer than that.

Edited June 3, 2014 by Restorium2

[Norby]

Water in an oil won't bubble out at a lower temp?  Then what's making the small bubbles?  The conditions change on boiling when 2 different liquids are combined so I wouldn't be so sure if I were u. The site says they don't start decarbing and making small bubbles till 250f.  So I guess it doesn't have all the answers.

 

You don't even know what we're talking about?  Why are you wasting my time?  Mal said GG marked increase in potency after 2-8 weeks is from THC degrading to CBN and not that it's naturally decarbing in the vial to show the increase in potency.  That is the question.  Was her oil decarbed before going into the vial and started degrading to cbn or was it not decarbed when it went in and it decarbed naturally over the 2-8 week period.

 

  How can you accuse me of a popularity contest when you don't even know what the conversation is about?  Again I ask you look at your your reason to be in this conversation.  If GG said the same to Mal it would be her and I having this conversation.  You'll eventually realize that I have no "friends" and eventually tinkle everyone off for butting heads.  When you argue something you automatically loose a good segment being on your side so if it was popularity I was going for I'd just stay out of it and like others posts.

[Restorium2]

Water in an oil won't bubble out at a lower temp?  Then what's making the small bubbles?  The conditions change on boiling when 2 different liquids are combined so I wouldn't be so sure if I were u. The site says they don't start decarbing and making small bubbles till 250f.  So I guess it doesn't have all the answers.

 

You don't even know what we're talking about?  Why are you wasting my time?  Mal said GG marked increase in potency after 2-8 weeks is from THC degrading to CBN and not that it's naturally decarbing in the vial to show the increase in potency.  That is the question.  Was her oil decarbed before going into the vial and started degrading to cbn or was it not decarbed when it went in and it decarbed naturally over the 2-8 week period.

 

  How can you accuse me of a popularity contest when you don't even know what the conversation is about?  Again I ask you look at your your reason to be in this conversation.  If GG said the same to Mal it would be her and I having this conversation.  You'll eventually realize that I have no "friends" and eventually tinkle everyone off for butting heads.  When you argue something you automatically loose a good segment being on your side so if it was popularity I was going for I'd just stay out of it and like others posts.

That's exactly what I meant about not reading the information on the site. If you had read it, or listened to Mal at all, you would know that 'her' oil was decarbed if 'her' oil was heated in the process. Same with degradation. Now, what are you trying to accomplish, medically, with your questions here? Edited June 3, 2014 by Restorium2

[Norby]

Ya, because the chart shows a near strait line at the temps needed to boil off iso.  For me reading that chart it says the oil WON'T decarb at the temps and time for making oil from iso.  My theory is that it weakens the bonds and decarbing happens quickly in the vial in a couple weeks afterwards.  Could you show me the temps used for gg oil and the temps and time needed to decarb?  I'd be happy if I'm wrong and someone could show me why.  Not just that it was decarbed if it was heated.  That's not an answer.  Decarbing is a product of temp and time and I don't think those were achieved to decarb when the oil was finished.  I use the same method as GG.  If I used the same method as Mal then I'd be asking if someone said something that I didn't think was right about his oil.  Why is the quest for knowledge a popularity contest for you?  Why can't someone just want to know what is happening in their process?  Maybe your not that precise on wanting to know what's going on with your meds but I am.

 

Seeing if the oil had THC or THCA in it before 2-8 weeks to know if it's pass the blood brain barrier(say for a brain cancer patient) and what the CBN levels are to know if it would affect a heart patient.  These are things that you'd rather have a little knowledge of so you can make decisions without having to start researching when you encounter the problem.  What if a heart patient wants oil for any other reason.  It's part of my job to know as much as I can so I can help people with their health and not cause problems.  Not just rely on generalities.

[Restorium2]

Ya, because the chart shows a near strait line at the temps needed to boil off iso.  For me reading that chart it says the oil WON'T decarb at the temps and time for making oil from iso.  My theory is that it weakens the bonds and decarbing happens quickly in the vial in a couple weeks afterwards.  Could you show me the temps used for gg oil and the temps and time needed to decarb?  I'd be happy if I'm wrong and someone could show me why.  Not just that it was decarbed if it was heated.  That's not an answer.  Decarbing is a product of temp and time and I don't think those were achieved to decarb when the oil was finished.  I use the same method as GG.  If I used the same method as Mal then I'd be asking if someone said something that I didn't think was right about his oil.  Why is the quest for knowledge a popularity contest for you?  Why can't someone just want to know what is happening in their process?  Maybe your not that precise on wanting to know what's going on with your meds but I am.

 

Seeing if the oil had THC or THCA in it before 2-8 weeks to know if it's pass the blood brain barrier(say for a brain cancer patient) and what the CBN levels are to know if it would affect a heart patient.  These are things that you'd rather have a little knowledge of so you can make decisions without having to start researching when you encounter the problem.  What if a heart patient wants oil for any other reason.  It's part of my job to know as much as I can so I can help people with their health and not cause problems.  Not just rely on generalities.

GG oil? That's not really going to fly. You need to describe the process to get an answer. There are many ways to make and taylor oil. You start with a medical purpose for the oil and taylor it for that purpose. What is it that you are trying to accomplish medically?

[Norby]

Again, I read the site, obviously you didn't.  To say her oil was decarbed if it was heated just shows your wasting my time.  Did you read the site where it says "it's easy as dirt to see decarb in a hash oil if you heat it up to 250f in an oil bath and watch for the little bubbles"?  It wasn't necessarily decarbed because it was heated.  And you don't know what your talking about.

[Restorium2]

Norby question:

What if a heart patient wants oil for any other reason?

Answer; 

 

We had a very rare patient, that has had their heart effected by cannabis oil type products, give us advice. You should listen to what he tells you very closely. Mal is a rare bird and he is willing to help you learn about what works. He is much more useful, as an informed patient, than any other testing device you could imagine.

Edited June 3, 2014 by Restorium2

[Restorium2]

CBN actually negatively effects my heart so I would never use that process. I use ice extraction then simply melting the kief into whatever oil based product I am cooking at that moment.  Keeps CBN as minimal as possible.

 

 Many people like CBN though(those that generally prefer oil/hash).  To each his own aye. :-)

[Restorium2]

Cannabis produces phyto cannabinoids in a carboxylic acid form that are not orally active at least at the CB-1 receptor sites, because they don’t readily pass the blood brain barrier in their polar form.

 

To enable them to pass the blood brain barrier, they must first be decarboxylated, to remove the COOH carboxyl group of atoms, which exits in the form of H20 and CO2.

 

Decarboxylation occurs naturally with time and temperature, as a function of drying, but we can shorten the amount of time required considerably, by adding more heat.  The more heat, the faster it occurs, within reasonable ranges, and in fact occurs spontaneously when the material is burned or vaporized.

 

There is another mechanism at play however, which suggests that we need to control the decarboxylation temperatures carefully.

When we heat cannabis to convert the THCA and CBDA into THC and CBD, we are also converting THC to CBN at a faster rate. 

 

At about 70% decarboxylation, we actually start converting THC to CBN at a faster rate than we are converting THCA to THC, so as you can see by the following graph, after about 70% decarboxylation, the levels of THC actually start to fall sharply.

 

That of course means that the CBN also begins to rise and the medication is becoming more sedative.

 

We can’t expect dry material placed in an oven at any given temperature to be that uniform temperature throughout instantly upon placing it in a heated oven, nor know for sure the state of decarboxylation by simple observation.

 

Decarboxylating plant material, also alters the taste (roasted/toasted), which some find less agreeable, and of course decarboxylating also evaporates away the smaller Monoterpenes and Sequiterpenes alcohols, phenols, ketones, aldehydes, ethers, and esters.

[Norby]

If your going to avoid the questions and play on my heart strings I'm done. Who's going for the popularity contest?  And he's not willing to help me learn.  He already said he doesn't have the time.  I'm not debating cbn affecting his heart I'm debating the actual levels throughout the process.

 

And with that I'm out.  You don't want to get to the real answers you just want me to stop.  So I'll stop before you waste anymore of my time.

[Restorium2]

If your going to avoid the questions and play on my heart strings I'm done. Who's going for the popularity contest?  And he's not willing to help me learn.  He already said he doesn't have the time.  I'm not debating cbn affecting his heart I'm debating the actual levels throughout the process.

 

And with that I'm out.  You don't want to get to the real answers you just want me to stop.  So I'll stop before you waste anymore of my time.

Keep in mind that your next new patient might be the one that has this rare heart problem. I had one and it's an awesome thing to know what happened. Thanks to Mal, an extremely informed patient, I know more about what happened and can taylor a medicine to fit this patient. Informed patients with rare problems that they have learned how to deal with are priceless. I'm sure you can relate to that with your recent break though with your IBS.

 

What is the medical purpose for this debate you want to have about how much of the THC converted over to CBN?

[Wild Bill]

Is the pissing contest over? I just wanted to know if you can put decarbed bud into hard candies before they cool and make an effective medible.

 

Probably. I've never tried it in hard candies but I regularly use it in chocolate.

 

http://oldtimemeds.blogspot.com/2013/09/sugar-free-chocolate-cannabis-candy.html

[cheapshades]

Probably. I've never tried it in hard candies but I regularly use it in chocolate.

 

http://oldtimemeds.blogspot.com/2013/09/sugar-free-chocolate-cannabis-candy.html

 

Nice recipe!  Looks easy to make.  

 

Question:  Approximately how long to wait after the initial dose to best judge if another is needed? 

[jointedone]

Thank you very much, Mr Wild Bill.   Thats all I wanted to know. Cheap,I don't know if you were asking me,but I wait about 20 minutes,if not where I want to be,eat another candy. To get the full effect don't use any other method of injesting,then you can tell what amount you need for your relief. Now I can make my own candies and use the decarbed that was going to be for tea. That kinda makes me feel good that I can do something for MYSELF.  I am going to put a gm in each candy to start. Heck I actually learned something here. Who woulda thunk it!

[Wild Bill]

Nice recipe!  Looks easy to make.  

 

Question:  Approximately how long to wait after the initial dose to best judge if another is needed? 

 

It depends on factors like empty stomach, tiredness, strength of herb etc.

 

I've found it best to eat them right before a meal. Normally the effects are felt within one hour.

 

Just be cautious the first time.

[GrowGoddess]

Thanks Wild Bill. I am so happy that someone was able to answer the initial question!  I do not have any experience with medibles, so I did not wish to provide any assumed information.

 

It would be nice if someone could answer my questions. In one way or another, I will find my answers, and it won't be at Skunkpharms, I have already read over their stuff. They do not have an answer to my questions. I do disagree with some of their info, but they do also have a lot of helpful information. Where I disagree most is when it comes to vaporizing.

 

MMMA has a pretty good vaporizing blog http://michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/blog/532/entry-1026-my-experience-with-portable-vaporizers-pen-vaporizers-for-concentrated-cannabis-oil-and-e-cigarette-oil/

 

I must apologize for spamming, but, it is MMMA that I am spamming It is also MMMA exclusive too!

I will be testing the newest best products soon. Some are in the mail and other will be ordered soon. The report will be posted on the blog.

 

This is for you Mal and Resto!

 

All in good fun aye?

[Restorium2]

No offense intended GG. You were just stomping all over some very important medical marijuana information that all caregivers should be watching for, a patient that gets a heart reaction from cannabis. I had one like that. Mal is another example that was willing to provide a first hand account. Put two examples together and you start to learn something that could save a patient a whole lot of discomfort, and possibly give them a second chance with cannabis they otherwise wouldn't have gotten. To me, this is the most useful aspect of this website, learning what works for patients from patients. All the rest of the stuff that goes on here is just a distraction, in my opinion. Until the next time .......

Edited June 4, 2014 by Restorium2

[GregS]

Pay no mind to Resto's insults. He is unable to tailor his speech without them. It's just his style. The content really sucks, but you can always count on being called names or otherwise put down.

Edited June 4, 2014 by GregS

[GregS]

My take is that GG has a professional difference of opinion with the other source. It happens. I am confident that her skills will permit her the means to appropriately dose most any patient with most any treatable condition.

[GregS]

Nicely edited Resto. Thank you.

[GrowGoddess]

GG oil? That's not really going to fly. You need to describe the process to get an answer. There are many ways to make and taylor oil. You start with a medical purpose for the oil and taylor it for that purpose. What is it that you are trying to accomplish medically?

GG's oil is fully described. Here is just one place: http://michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/blog/532/entry-1098-rso-qwiso-concentrates-by-grow-goddess/

 

I don't see that you or Mal have documented anything with a tutorial or blog or even pictures describing any of your oil methods to share with others and to help people learn.

 

You pretend to be so concerned about patients, but all I see is trolling on the forums, stirring the pot and bickering. I truly believe if you were so very concerned about patients you would desire to journal your experiences. Wouldn't that help people?

 

I can't help but to say this, really it is somewhat of a question. It seems to me that since Greg Francisco handed this site over to Blueberry your attitudes have done a 180 and has remained that way since. Is this just a long dragged out grudge you are holding against this site?

 

All the editing, both of you. Sometimes it is done soon after a reply to the comment and often times even the next day.Unless that unedited post was quoted it can make the reply seem out of place, which is quite disrespectful to do that to people. I think I speak for many when I say that it would be more respectful if you would at least have the courtesy to point out what you are editing. It can make all the difference for the readers to comprehend the conversation. Otherwise all it really does is confuse people. Maybe that is the goal?

 

Hmmmmm, time limit to edit........

 

Norby question:

 

What if a heart patient wants oil for any other reason?

 

Answer; 

 

We had a very rare patient, that has had their heart effected by cannabis oil type products, give us advice. You should listen to what he tells you very closely. Mal is a rare bird and he is willing to help you learn about what works. He is much more useful, as an informed patient, than any other testing device you could imagine.

 

How hypocritical of you. This is in regards this statement and another statement you made about your tailoring your product to fit specific medical needs.

 

Was it not you and Mal non stop hounding PB and me about making any medicinal claims and all that? At that time it was more like a campaign against anyone claiming medicinal properties of a concentrate.

 

Being able to truly tailor a concentrate to an illness, well, in all reality, we are at least decades away from that. There are billions of combination possibilities between the CBDs and all of the other compounds found within the marijuana plant. Yet, you claim you can tailor the medicine for specific illness and seek Mal's advice? Well, last time I went to seek advice from Mal he compared concentrates to bleach in regards to cancer.

 

I live in reality. I have pictures, blogs, patient testimonies, strangers with no relation to me, I have shared some of my best knowledge and my experiences. My goal is to try to help others whether it is to make oil, grow, or simply find relief to an illness. This is not just hot air or imaginary. Heart condition?

I have treated a patient successfully right in front of all. We documented the treatment from start to finish. We discussed prehand about how the oil can effect the heart and blood pressure issues. He closely monitored everything about his health issues from the start of taking the oil. http://michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/topic/41261-cancer-%E2%80%93-free-alternative-treatment-option/ to save you the time of reading the entire topic, post #82 mentions about the blood pressure meds and other health issues.

 

During the first week many of the symptoms he was suffering from started to diminish. For instance, night sweats - gone; itching all over - gone, but still itching on hands and feet occasionally though; gained weight; he has gone from 3 - 5 hours of sleep per night to 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep.

 

He has kept a close eye on his blood pressure and has been able to discontinue a HBP medication.

 

This is before I met my patient, his first and maybe only post. http://michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/topic/41978-this-is-a-problem/ After he made this topic post, he sent me a PM about my treatment offer. You can read all about my experiences with the two patients I worked very closely with on the blog I did My Experience with Rick Simpson Oil (cannabis oil) vs. Cancer

 

I have done many blogs, posts, worked with patients, and provided pictures. My point is, I don't live in an imaginary world, I provide proof.

 

I have seen Resto and Mal snaking around actually answering any direct questions. I must say, the two of you would be the last I would ever seek advice from, unless it is politics. You are great politicians.

 

I must apologize to the community for this rant. Just dumping my cards out on the table. Truth and transparency.

 

So, I think I am done for now, have to get back to my vape, and take a quick ride on the broomstick!!

[Restorium2]

GG's oil is fully described. Here is just one place: http://michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/blog/532/entry-1098-rso-qwiso-concentrates-by-grow-goddess/

 

I don't see that you or Mal have documented anything with a tutorial or blog or even pictures describing any of your oil methods to share with others and to help people learn.

 

You pretend to be so concerned about patients, but all I see is trolling on the forums, stirring the pot and bickering. I truly believe if you were so very concerned about patients you would desire to journal your experiences. Wouldn't that help people?

 

I can't help but to say this, really it is somewhat of a question. It seems to me that since Greg Francisco handed this site over to Blueberry your attitudes have done a 180 and has remained that way since. Is this just a long dragged out grudge you are holding against this site?

 

All the editing, both of you. Sometimes it is done soon after a reply to the comment and often times even the next day.Unless that unedited post was quoted it can make the reply seem out of place, which is quite disrespectful to do that to people. I think I speak for many when I say that it would be more respectful if you would at least have the courtesy to point out what you are editing. It can make all the difference for the readers to comprehend the conversation. Otherwise all it really does is confuse people. Maybe that is the goal?

 

Hmmmmm, time limit to edit........

 

 

How hypocritical of you. This is in regards this statement and another statement you made about your tailoring your product to fit specific medical needs.

 

Was it not you and Mal non stop hounding PB and me about making any medicinal claims and all that? At that time it was more like a campaign against anyone claiming medicinal properties of a concentrate.

 

Being able to truly tailor a concentrate to an illness, well, in all reality, we are at least decades away from that. There are billions of combination possibilities between the CBDs and all of the other compounds found within the marijuana plant. Yet, you claim you can tailor the medicine for specific illness and seek Mal's advice? Well, last time I went to seek advice from Mal he compared concentrates to bleach in regards to cancer.

 

I live in reality. I have pictures, blogs, patient testimonies, strangers with no relation to me, I have shared some of my best knowledge and my experiences. My goal is to try to help others whether it is to make oil, grow, or simply find relief to an illness. This is not just hot air or imaginary. Heart condition?

I have treated a patient successfully right in front of all. We documented the treatment from start to finish. We discussed prehand about how the oil can effect the heart and blood pressure issues. He closely monitored everything about his health issues from the start of taking the oil. http://michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/topic/41261-cancer-–-free-alternative-treatment-option/ to save you the time of reading the entire topic, post #82 mentions about the blood pressure meds and other health issues.

 

 

During the first week many of the symptoms he was suffering from started to diminish. For instance, night sweats - gone; itching all over - gone, but still itching on hands and feet occasionally though; gained weight; he has gone from 3 - 5 hours of sleep per night to 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep.

 

He has kept a close eye on his blood pressure and has been able to discontinue a HBP medication.

 

This is before I met my patient, his first and maybe only post. http://michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/topic/41978-this-is-a-problem/ After he made this topic post, he sent me a PM about my treatment offer. You can read all about my experiences with the two patients I worked very closely with on the blog I did My Experience with Rick Simpson Oil (cannabis oil) vs. Cancer

 

I have done many blogs, posts, worked with patients, and provided pictures. My point is, I don't live in an imaginary world, I provide proof.

 

I have seen Resto and Mal snaking around actually answering any direct questions. I must say, the two of you would be the last I would ever seek advice from, unless it is politics. You are great politicians.

 

I must apologize to the community for this rant. Just dumping my cards out on the table. Truth and transparency.

 

So, I think I am done for now, have to get back to my vape, and take a quick ride on the broomstick!!

 

 

[Restorium2]

Rick Simpson Oil, Peanutbutter's Oil, GG's Oil, all makes me want to projectile vomit. It's all YOU, thumping your chest for acknowledgement. I was the very first here to put up a tutorial about making oil. Step by step with pics. Back in '09. Didn't call it Restorium's Oil. That would be silly(or worse). Like pretending you are a God or something. I also documented with pics, several grows including a scrog tutorial and several automation tutorials. Showed how to make a cloner. Showed how to make your own reflective hood. Started a MMMA CC in the real world, also back in '09. I was the 7th member here to join the MMMA. Ran this web site too.

Have fun. I have better ways to help patients than to slug it out here with you. Have a nice life, seriously. If you had a real life then you wouldn't have to put your name in front of something others created long ago. You are very tall standing on other's shoulders.

 

As far as you picking on Malamute; He has contributed more of his time, and substantial brain power, to Medical Marijuana in Michigan, than possibly anyone else ever. If you have not been in a position to see that then just ask the people who know and see the long list of things he has worked on tirelessly for all of us patients. Every time you mention Mal and I in the same sentence/cutdown I'm actually honored to be in good company. It's like saying, Resto and Warren Buffet did this and that. I'm really honored. The only other person I can think of that even comes close to Mal is Zap. This post is an exclamation and also a tribute to them and all the work they have done for me as a Michigan Medical Marijuana Patient.

[zachw]

The thread started off pretty straightforward with useful decarboxylation information, info that is widely available and seemingly not at all controversial. Eventually it devolved into petty bickering and name calling for reasons I can't figure out.

 

Time to take a breath and move on folks. At this point this thread is a complete waste of time. In fact, don't even bother reading THIS reply, hokay?

Edited June 5, 2014 by zachw

[GregS]

Obviously zachw, you don't know Resto. There is a Maladaptive Covert Narcissism Scale (MCNS) that I would like to offer him to see how he scores. The mods fail to see the humor.

 

Google is your friend.