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Why We Need Dispensaries!


zachw
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After watching the first couple installments of Weed Wars, it quickly became apparent why dispensaries are critical for the future of medical cannabis. While I theoretically like the idea of a CG cottage industry, let's face it: only a dispensary will have the means to ensure consistent, tested products. Even if testing becomes cheaper and quicker, a CG can only grow a limited number of strains and is somewhat at the mercy of numerous grow problems. What if one needs to guarantee the regular availability of a high CBD tincture? Or a diabetic that prefers to ingest diet cannabis soda? There are other reasons, of course, why dispensaries are needed (availability of CGs, for example). But in the short term dispensaries can provide patient needs much more effectively than one CG per patient. (And I say this even though I have an excellent CG that can provide numerous strains, medibles, etc).

 

Note that I said "short term". In the long term all of this will be passe since cannabis will eventually be legal.

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in 06/07 when we the people were chatting about this. i was against dispensaries. to me, it was like the beer store (which i do use either)..

 

but, my mind was changing in the middle of 09, as i became more aware of the bigger picture. Im always a "See the big picture" but only once i start to look over the ins/outs of a situation.

 

in 07, i was like nope. we dont need them. plenty of people can and will be willing to grow.... but i had not though deep enough to go to the extent, no everyone everywhere will know someone, and then i thought, if my sis were still alive, never having been a user, if i were dead, or not around, who/where would/could she go to be seen by someone she can trust. thats when the lightbulb went on for me.

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I agree Restorium2 but not everyone knows you. The real issue is access for the sick. Not all sick people know a good caregiver and I mean GOOD. Big difference. No two caregivers are created equal and the differences are huge. The dispensaries I feel are needed for those with no means to obtain their meds. I am not a big fan of dispensaries per say I just want those who do not know a good grower to have safe access. So I feel the disp. are needed and have a place.

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I quit supplying dispensaries in mid to late '09 because I noticed that one (which is no longer in business) was changing the names of my strains and ALL OF THEM were charging 2 - 2.5 times the cost at which I offered it to them. In turn screwing the patient and placing the blame on "overhead costs". By doing this, I put a dispensary in Owosso out of business. He was a young greedy kid that thought he was gonna be a millionaire by the end of the month. He had no compassion. I applaud Compassion Clubs and Farmers Markets that offer competitive pricing and a massive selection. But dispensaries........ Not anymore! Medcnman.

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If the people want them, why not vote them in on another Prop vote.

 

That will settle it. Let the people decide...... not Schuette.

 

I would think that each county could have it's own decision.

 

If your county says NO, then you just have to drive over to the next county, where they said YES.

 

Otherwise, this is getting old...... and, the word "dispensary" does not appear on our current MMJ Law.

 

Maybe it should have, maybe not. Restorium2 has a point, Cargivers can do many things these days.

 

However, if Patients have money to throw away, considering this is America, who am I to say they can't blow their money at a Dispensary ??

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i was exactly where you are at in this thought last summer Rest.

 

but fact is, with all the people we all know, we still dont know everyone.

 

sure they mark up. cant donate 200.00 an oz to a grower, and donate it to a Pt for the same 200. the building has lights, doors, wages, power bills ect. just like the grower.

 

point is. every person walking In the front door, is probably someone i dont know. and if im the best grower in the state, i still cant grow enough for everyone, or would be willing to work with any ole stranger that walks in...

 

thats what a dispensary can do... give jonny q public a place to meet others in the area.

 

now, once some of the disp members meet eachother, word gets out, and some patients will find a good CG that they can use, over the disp. its likey they were using his meds anyways...

 

but without the dispensary around, i have to wonder who my sister would of be able to trust. i wonder if anyone would be willing to treat her with the respect and honest concerns one human should have for another.

 

Fact is, we as humans, are failing ourselves in our human kindness department.

 

its a sign of the times, people care more about what they have in their own pocket and will step over a starving person to throw away 5.00 in food....

 

point is. a dispensary, though wont do much for me, would of been my Sisters only real hope for trustworthy help...

i cant introduce her to you or anyone else if i dont know them. and if i dont know who they are, she sure in the hell wouldnt.

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Fact is, we as humans, are failing ourselves in our human kindness department.

 

You expect a dispensary will fix that? A business that is only open to make money is going to save humanity? I believe they are part of the problem. How many dispensary advocates are the ones who dump pounds there because they will not help a patient directly? Sometimes I think that the majority of dispensary advocates are the dumpers. Maybe all of them are the dumpers, acting like they are patients in need. I saw a girl cry, literally cry about a dispensary being closed. She said it was the only way she could get meds. Turns out she was sad because she couldn't make a quick buck dumping. The reality of the situation is often buried so deep you can't find it.

I agree with your thoughts on dispensaries but there isnt a single business in this world that isnt in business to make money. Im sure the DeAngelo brothers make a nice salary out of their $21 million a year at Harborside. And they are a non-profit. Even non-profits are in the business of making money. Medcnman.

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If a state chose to do it, why couldn't 'patient's' or their individual 'care giver' still retain the right to grow for themselves right along with 'nonprofit dispensaries' being allowed to provide MJ also.

 

Why would it 'have' to be 'one or the other'.

 

But the really 'big why' is because Federal law won't allow it.

 

Until Federal law is changed, we will still have problems, even at the 'local' level of enforcement... just ask Mr. Schuette.

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Whatever happened to the caregiver position being volunteerism to help a patient whom can't help themselves at cost which we know is no more then $60 a ounce ? How do you respond to the Officer who lost their job for being a caregiver for a suffering family member who never used cannabis or sought to profit ?

 

There are many reasons why a storefront is required . Many people need delivery at home but are scared to just have strangers come who havent' been screened by others in their community for one . It is scary even then .

 

There are many others including strain availabillity and emergency supply as well as accepting paperwork and a inhability for patients to move freely due to health . Surely some of you can put up real reasons why they are necessary .

 

Being tied to anyone individual is not safe because something can happen to them - it is a system that puts contant fear in a patient if their is not a backup alternative that is also in place .

 

However that said caregivers in Farmers Markets can help keep prices under control . I wish I could see one - hopefully one day I will .

Edited by Croppled1
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I can do everything that dispensary does and do it cheaper. I have proven that consistently since early '09. If I can do it you can too. It's just work.

 

"you can too": no, not everyone has the means or ability to grow, or to grow consistently. I - for example - simply do not have the space. And even if I did, I would much rather pay someone for their time and expertise than deal with all of the hassles of growing and the possibilities of a failed crop. Growing is simply not for everyone.

 

And cheaper is not the only consideration. Do you test everything thing that you produce (including % THC, CBD, CBN, mold)? Can you consistently provide a 20% CBD/1% THC product in tincture? Can you consistently provide a 10%/10% smokeable product? Can you provide the sheer range of strains and medibles that a large dispensary can?

 

z

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Why? Because of the dumping. It is a diversion away from the caregiver/patient model. Every dump takes a dump on a patient or 10. No place to dump, no dumping.

 

None of my meds has ever been in a dispensary and I see your point about dumping, but I feel you are WAY off if that is your only argument. "Dumping" happens in all facets of business. In any and every point of retail there is "dumping". Look at your grocery store. wal-mart. Liquor store. Pharmacy. All of these things get "dumped" on by someone or some other business manufacturing a product. Whether it's alcohol or toys or pharmaceuticals. But yet, everyone of US have gone to these "dumping" grounds for a reason and paid whatever compensation was needed for what WE were getting.

 

I do see a need for them in our community. Especially for new patients that maybe don't know or have a CG. What about patients from other CARD holding states? they cannot travel with their meds out of state. And I thought, but correct me if I'm wrong, Michigan does honor those cards. So where are they to get meds? There are alot of very VALID points for having dispensaries.

Edited by Tyin'Flies
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If a state chose to do it, why couldn't 'patient's' or their individual 'care giver' still retain the right to grow for themselves right along with 'nonprofit dispensaries' being allowed to provide MJ also.

 

Why would it 'have' to be 'one or the other'.

 

But the really 'big why' is because Federal law won't allow it.

 

Until Federal law is changed, we will still have problems, even at the 'local' level of enforcement... just ask Mr. Schuette.

 

There are two of us that believe this is how it should be at least . I am not saying I will do it in practice just I believe this is how it should be . I refuse to cross the line and let them silence my voice . I can't take the incarceration in this state of health it is torture pure and simple and you have few if any protections if you choose to cross certain lines .

Edited by Croppled1
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I can do everything that dispensary does and do it cheaper. I have proven that consistently since early '09. If I can do it you can too. It's just work.

 

Question is can you do it for 94,000 people? When you look at those kind of numbers there is no possible way single and multiple caregiver systems can never meet that kind of demand. When you've had a law in place as long as California's people depend on those big dispensaries and to have the the US government going around pulling the plug on those peolples source for their meds should be criminal!!!!

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Fact is, we as humans, are failing ourselves in our human kindness department.

 

You expect a dispensary will fix that? A business that is only open to make money is going to save humanity? I believe they are part of the problem. How many dispensary advocates are the ones who dump pounds there because they will not help a patient directly? Sometimes I think that the majority of dispensary advocates are the dumpers. Maybe all of them are the dumpers, acting like they are patients in need. I saw a girl cry, literally cry about a dispensary being closed. She said it was the only way she could get meds. Turns out she was sad because she couldn't make a quick buck dumping. The reality of the situation is often buried so deep you can't find it.

 

you and i have had this discussion in the previous legislation thread. So you know my point and are aware of my position on this issue. you also know that I KNOW that a dispensary is not going to save humanity.

The intention of that statement is while we all set here and hollar about compassion, we ll overlook things right infront of our face because it doesnt effect us personally. And I would have to make the summation this is exactly what is happening....

 

You are well aware of the fact Many Pts cant find a good CG, or have any around their area, and if your not aware of the fact, you need to get out more. So if you have a never used cannabis pt, carded and seeking meds. are they supposed to wait for the Caregiver god to visit them with a list of good lil boys and girls?

no, they like any other pt, is going to look for ways to find the medicine they use. Are you going to show up on their doorstep, regardless of where they are at in Michigan, and help them out, no dontations needed? as much as im sure you would like to, you know you cant get to everyone. no one can. so what do you purpose someone in this situation do?

 

hope to stumble across a seed or clone somewhere along side the road and grow it out? if they cant find you, or anyone like you, they may as well not have a card, and just pop another vic.

 

SO access is the number two thing a dispensary can bring, unless you can do that Rest. for the Entire state, and every Pt and CG here in? Can you do that Rest? not with a imaginary network of old and new contacts sometime in the future. but now, today, or even next week? point is, you cant, neither can i, and no one can unless they have their Jesus Sleds on...the only way to get the access needed to the entire state is with some sort of dispensary network.

 

that can be a state controlled, ran, employee based network... (think IRS, DMV, or LARA offices), where things will be so in expensive cuz the states do things so efficiently, or it can be run by a chain of corporate type entities as seen in Colorado, again, real inexpensive there when it runs over 200K just to get your certifications to even look for a building. those 1/4 mil in fees will keep the disp cost down huh. or we can see if we can get the Restitorium method of networking going, and make it all good and hiden from the public, cuz keeping things hiden from public view is a good thing to do when your dealing with public issues like health and medicine. that invokes alot of public trust right? it does doesnt it?

 

or it can be like we had/have going with individual entrepreneurs opening shops through out the state. to get those that have no other options, access to the meds they need. yes at an increased cost. just as it would be if you were to drive to say escanaba to deliver for them or if they were to drive to you to pick it up. the travel still costs money. even if you were doing like the fool in TC area and using the Mail to distribute to Carded Pts? how did he verify the cards i wonder? non the less. it didnt work for him nor any of his PTs or CGs very well did it? even with the priority mail shipping costs being cheap as they are.

 

 

simply put, we can all agree, in the current state of affairs with BS' bs, people are scared of even trying it now... People that just last spring that perhaps had a sick loved one, perhaps a child with cancer, would of been open to the possibility that cannabis can and will help their child in ways conventional medicine just cant and/or wont do.... People are afraid of being locked up, over maybe curing their illness, or just maintaining it with cannabis... Like it or not, when Dispensaries were around, They gave the legitimacy to the fact that cannaibis is here, it can help, and it is ACCESSIBLE to anyone with a card. And that is the number 1 thing dispensarys bring. and in my opinion, this out weighs the negatives that SOME people were expereinces at some less that desirable establishments were.... thats where the free market would of worked out those kinks, had they been allowed to continue to opperate...

 

Its a 2 way street Rest. you and i and everyone else is well aware of that. their will always be a negative side. in this case the positives of a dispensary, would be number 1, the legitimacy it brings to cannabis as medicine in the rhelm of public opinion. 2. a legitimate store front where people that dont have those connections you and i have, can find medicine now, not a month later after trying to find someone they feel they can trust here. if you refuse to see that these 2 points of legitimacy in public opinion, and out right immediate full access any Pt can obtain at a dispensary, then your either bull headed and refuse to see the good, and want to throw the baby out with the bathwater, or you dont understand as much as you think you do, about what finding a honest and good CG, especially in todays climate, that you can trust, is really like.

 

You must realize not every patient is a former stoner dont you? not everyone has an inner ring of old friends to fall back on?

and not everyone feels cozy, warm, and fuzzy, meeting someone in a parking lot to get medicine in the form of say oil, to give to their dying child, when cannabis as a medicine has been passed by the citizens of this great state, and they should be able to get this medicine openly and readily, from say a dispensary, or yourself if they are fortunate enough to be in your area, or perhaps have the good luck to meet you some how, or someone like yourself.

 

that fact that there is a storefront, a brick and motor facility,often a mom and pop run public outlet, brings with it more legitimacy to cannabis as medicine than 1000 good pvt growers can... Simply because it is in the Publics Eye, and can Not be avoided to be seen.

you can argue till your blue in the face about it, but you will be arguing a mute point. It is a fact, and I can almost guarantee it is one of the Main Driving Premises behind BS' campain. By shutting down the dispensaries, he is attempting to subvert the information and education about the medicinal value Cannabis really has... He knows, if he can keep the image of the dirty hippy pot head alive, reefer madness if you will, then he has the public opinion to support his illegal campaign trail he is on.

 

That alone should be enough to drive the most devout anti dispensary advocates to switch to supporting them...

 

you only need to look to cali for proof. they have without a doubt the most vast amount of private growers, and even they cant get to every one. Dispensarys are all over in cali, and still opening up. and yet some growers have to dump on dispensaries to get rid of overages. they price was falling due to over production in some areas, while its going up in others. and now that the feds are back at their BS, Cali will see prices soar up again because of it.

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I feel the law was intended for a caregiver system, and farmers markets helps with people without a caregiver or access to one. I think if the people of this state want dispensaries then a initiative should be written voted on and passed. I have been growing now for some time, relatively new to this forum. I have had countless patients expect free meds assuming I will make money dumping at dispensaries or elsewhere. This is one effect of dispensaries. I have patients with low income and I have always found a way to make it work really well for both me and them. There needs to be a new law supporting them because what we have now is a mess in my opinion.

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After watching the first couple installments of Weed Wars, it quickly became apparent why dispensaries are critical for the future of medical cannabis. While I theoretically like the idea of a CG cottage industry, let's face it: only a dispensary will have the means to ensure consistent, tested products. Even if testing becomes cheaper and quicker, a CG can only grow a limited number of strains and is somewhat at the mercy of numerous grow problems. What if one needs to guarantee the regular availability of a high CBD tincture? Or a diabetic that prefers to ingest diet cannabis soda? There are other reasons, of course, why dispensaries are needed (availability of CGs, for example). But in the short term dispensaries can provide patient needs much more effectively than one CG per patient. (And I say this even though I have an excellent CG that can provide numerous strains, medibles, etc).

 

Note that I said "short term". In the long term all of this will be passe since cannabis will eventually be legal.

 

 

i think its sad, a lot of people watch this show.... :money: In no way shape or form do we need disp to supply good meds to patients. In fact a disp is your least likely source for consistency. When dealing with your CG, if he grows the same meds for you the same way....Now when ive been to a disp, no way to even be close to sure its the same meds you had last time, they change the names, they are about money. testing is just a guess.... you test a gram its fine, doesn't mean the next gram is the same. disp are more like candy stores, not my top choice if you are really searching for medicine.

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i think its sad, a lot of people watch this show.... :money: In no way shape or form do we need disp to supply good meds to patients. In fact a disp is your least likely source for consistency. When dealing with your CG, if he grows the same meds for you the same way....Now when ive been to a disp, no way to even be close to sure its the same meds you had last time, they change the names, they are about money. testing is just a guess.... you test a gram its fine, doesn't mean the next gram is the same. disp are more like candy stores, not my top choice if you are really searching for medicine.

 

When you say "testing is just a guess", I think you're way off-base.

 

 

If the CG provides what the patient wants and needs, great. But I think that this is more apropos to palliative treatment of pain, sleep problems, anxiety disorders, and such. Where specific curative effects are desired (e.g., inflammation reduction from high CBDs), testing is imperative, particularly with regards to THC/CBD ratios. And mold. Even in so-called "high CBD" strains, the content can vary widely if grown from seed.

 

Dispensaries are much more likely to test samples of everything. And to carry products from companies that are able to standardize. That's way better then testing nothing, especially if we are truly looking at cannabis as medicine.

 

z

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ok then guys. Riddle me this...

 

how do you get new patients access to meds today? hell, how do you get all patients access today? what do you guys purpose for the 2 or 3 new members of the site that need med/CGs in the UP? should they drive to meet you around here? or should you perhaps drive to see them? whos going to cover the cost of travel?

 

how do you find them. how do they find you? if your ill, and you need medicine, how are you going to get it immediatly?

 

 

Give us VALID Quantifiable options to dispensarys, that can be ready to hit the ground and be open for service immediately, and i ll gladly go back to the no need for dispensaries....

 

 

honestly. i dont like the idea, but until a Viable option is ready to implement, Dispensaries are the only way to get mass access to the nearly 150,000 and growing MMP card holders.

 

Id be happy to hear your thoughts on how to do it. with some detail please.

 

you have to understand where my position is, and i know GW knows my situation.

 

i grow for myself have one friend signing me as his CG, so i can cover both our needs. I have basically No need for a dispensary. i have a 40 yr ring of family and friends to network, as well as many here on the forum now... so for me personally, the only thing a dispensary offers, is an opertunity for a job, or to run one if i so choose.

 

so on a personal level, i dont care if they are there.

 

but, regardless of my needs, im not the only pt/cg in the state. I have to consider everyone else involved as well. the visiting pt from another state that is carded. if they are here as a tourist, and know no one, who they going to get their meds from while here? how are they going to find them?

 

I also have to consider those that never used, or knew of those that used cannabis. as i noted earlier what would you suggest a woman like my sister do, If i was not her brother. this is all after the fact now, but if my sister was seeking use of cannabis to treat her cancer, she had no knowledge of it, or anyone that uses, used, experienced, smoked a joint ect, then where is she going to get her GOOD Education?

 

Sure CC Clubs are good, but until every county minimally has one true CC model available, they only touch a small percentage of patients.

lets not forget the MMMP dept is getting approximatly 1500 applications per day..

 

so please explain to me how we can get ANYONE access to meds as soon as they are ready? without a 3/4 month grow to wait for, or a 2 month search and destroy attempt to find a CG they can work with, trust, and know they are being well cared for and taken care of?

please, im begging you, Enlighten me....

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Well put GW. You are one person that hasn't fallen for the hype and isn't on the dispensary dole.

 

One thing that fools a lot of people is that they think that a dispensary somehow magically supplies thousands of patients. They do not. They actually get in the way of supplying thousands of patients. Caregivers(all legal growers) need to understand that if they are going to set up shop here in Michigan they need to deal with patients, not dispensaries. Once everyone gets on that page, we patients can enjoy some consistency, without paying for unneeded overhead and dead weight, of a business that is greed(huge profits) driven by definition.

 

I get that you are against dispensaries as a business, and I'm not going to argue this point. But do you feel that they should at least be available to patients?

 

z

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Well put GW. You are one person that hasn't fallen for the hype and isn't on the dispensary dole.

 

One thing that fools a lot of people is that they think that a dispensary somehow magically supplies thousands of patients. They do not. They actually get in the way of supplying thousands of patients. Caregivers(all legal growers) need to understand that if they are going to set up shop here in Michigan they need to deal with patients, not dispensaries. Once everyone gets on that page, we patients can enjoy some consistency, without paying for unneeded overhead and dead weight, of a business that is greed(huge profits) driven by definition.

 

 

I don't argue the fact that dispensaries are a business, and that $ drives all business. Also, that the consistency of the meds available in most are not the greatest. You do bring up some good points.

 

Certainly I've never thought that dispensaries care for thousands of patients, but I don't see how they get in the way of helping patients either.

 

I'm not saying, and wouldn't want the only option for a patient to be a dispensary. But I feel not having them would also do a dis-service to patients IMO.

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ok then guys. Riddle me this...

 

how do you get new patients access to meds today? what do you guys purpose for the 2 or 3 new members of the site that need med/CGs in the UP? should they drive to meet you around here? or should you perhaps drive to see them? whos going to cover the cost of travel?

 

how do you find them. how do they find you? if your ill, and you need medicine, how are you going to get it immediatly?

 

 

Give us VALID Quantifiable options to dispensarys, that can be ready to hit the ground and be open for service immediately, and i ll gladly go back to the no need for dispensaries....

 

 

honestly. i dont like the idea, but until a Viable option is ready to implement, Dispensaries are the only way to get mass access to the nearly 150,000 and growing MMP card holders.

 

 

Id be happy to hear your thoughts on how to do it. with some detail please.

 

 

 

 

Agreed! If we didn't have them, or another alternative for immediate meds then WE close the door on some new patients.

Edited by Tyin'Flies
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again you keep giving the bad to a dispensary, but still refuse to offer a Valid Viable solution.....

 

just bitching about them wont make things better for those that DONT have a person like you or myself in their ring of friends...

 

for once, it would be nice to see you think about SOMEONE elses ability to get meds... someone that you dont know, and maybe someone that has never dealt with cannabis or anyone that has....

 

how do YOU propose to help that person...

Please share..

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