Clones

[lifesaver]

As a newbe caregiver do clones count toward your 60 plant count for five patients?

[mrd]

absolutly

[kruztydj]

Yes indeed rooted or not...

[Kingdiamond]

A cutting is a plant in this state roots or not so be carefull .

[ruan99]

I was under the impression they only count rooted plants toward your plant limit and the rest is considered "trash".

[Estimated Prophet]

I hear that in Oakland County they count every leaf on the floor as a full plant.

[mike44]

I was under the impression they only count rooted plants toward your plant limit and the rest is considered "trash".

No it's not called trash, even if it is. The only thing that won't count towards your plant count or total weight is stems & seeds. Now if the stem has some leaves on it, it could be counted towards your allowed weight, or even as a full plant. Don't be fooled into thinking otherwise. Don't cut your plant up when you hang it to dry either.

[donnachris]

If we arent supposed to cut the plant up at harvest how is it supposed to dry properly. I thought that when you took it from ahnging into the paperbag that you wanted to cut he buds off the stems so they dry properly. I could be wrong.

[mike44]

If we arent supposed to cut the plant up at harvest how is it supposed to dry properly. I thought that when you took it from ahnging into the paperbag that you wanted to cut he buds off the stems so they dry properly. I could be wrong.

Yes, it is important to dry and cure properly, and you can't let the buds stay on the stalk the whole time. I am only refering to the first few days, that I suggest you hang the plant whole. That is how I do it.

I have a buddy here in town that had a visit from LEO a few years back (before the MMMA)

He had plants growing in his basement, as did many of us. He had one plant hanging & drying that was cut into 4 main sections, he was charged for one plant per section as well as one plant for each one he had growing. He was convicted for the amount of plants charged with, and it costed him a bag full of money for legal fees, and fines as well as 1 year in the county jail. He could have got worse. If you trust LEO to take your word for how many plants you have, cutting them up is fine. I don't, at least not until they are ready for the next step, which is removing the buds from the plant.

[Medcnman]

Personally, i cut every single flower off the stem and put them in my drying racks. It cant be seen as a plant and untill its dry, its not "useable". When the outside of the flowers beigins to feel a bit crispy, i put them into jars. They are nowhere near ready yet. After about a half day, the flowers have rehydrated from the moisture deep within the flower. I take them back out of the jars and put them back in the rack. I do this until the flowers are firm yet slightly soft. Usually about 3-4 days. They then stay in the jars and I "Burp" the jars daily for about 10-20 minutes. About another 3-4 days. After showing a friend my process, he said "Dude!!!! Your knocking all the trichomes off the flowers by handling them that much". Then I showed him my test results. He now uses the same process I do. I handle the flowers as if they were paper thin glass. I think many who have sampled my meds would agree, this process works well. Its all about personal preference tho. There are many good ways to dry and cure your meds. This is just my way. Good day all!! Medcnman.

[pic book]

'dried and usable' is what the law (MMMA of 2008) states. Ignoring that, Oakland-Nazi County has been using, IMHO, "anything containing thc."

[Croppled1]

No it's not called trash, even if it is. The only thing that won't count toward your plant count or total weight is stems & seeds. Now if the stem has some leaves on it, it could be counted toward your allowed weight, or even as a full plant. Don't be fooled into thinking otherwise. Don't cut your plant up when you hang it to dry either.

 

 

This is helpful but I never would of considered this necessary with individuals who are reasonable . Patients whom we know to be in compromised health should not be pursued for arrest but helped to be compliant in any first contacts with law enforcement . The Act says 2.5 ozs of cured material . To stay within my 2.50 ozs I always trim my plants down as I require supply ( I would prefer to store to create non interrupted supply and remove the fear of suffering returning to levels before this act ) . I use scissors . With my disability which has caused atrophy and prevents much exercise do to inflammation which aggravates symptoms to unbearable levels I am not active for long periods often just putting the cut pieces on a dry net or in a paper bag . Since the material is fully mature buds with little leaf I feel no threat of anyone believing these would be cuttings for clones but the courts have shown how little they know about cannabis cultivation and curing . People with none or almost no practical knowledge of medical cannabis are interpreting and enforcing the act in ways never intended by those who wrote it and were very versed in the realities that exist.

 

I will make a mental note to remove stems as soon as possible upon removal from the plant but leave a few in the net as snapping stems are how I tell the curing process is ready to take to containers and the final steps . That should cover problems but reasonable application of the law needs to take place or it is bullying . And bullying is exactly what has occurred in the King case , Bob and Torrey's case and many others around the State . These are cases which are injuring the defendants to define law which common sense should of handled . The situation is so severe patients do need further protections . We have seen that death can result from the burdens and stress placed on patients who are pushed into a criminal defense posture . Patients denied medications have suffered stroke and as well as been forced into painful withdrawals that create temporary insanity in some as punishment dealt out by medical professionals for participating in the program . While some may find they can use cannabis instead most often patients are finding they go through this forced dangerous withdrawal only to be in suicidal pain requiring treatment of the previous medication . There are few medications that were not utilized in adjunctive care with cannabis prior to 1937 . In fact few is not even correct prior to cannabis prohibition it's use did not effect the prescribing of other medication . There is no excuse for Medical practitioners to put any patients at risk of injury or suffering for participating on the program . It would seem to violate the Hippocratic Oath they took . .

 

 

Our Legislator passed a anti bullying law this past year . They understood that form of abuse we need to appeal to this line of thinking . Threats of non election are very poorly received . However Snyder admitted a dislike for bullies and that he was a victim when young . Surely we can appeal to him and others from this position and truth as cannabis users we are most definitely victims of abuse being denied work , arrested and caged for minor technical disputes involving the act , denied equal rights which includes access to normal medical care most notably adjunctive care . Many patients have had other medications discontinued without slow tapers representative of the time spent on them , inpatient care and or individual withdrawal profiles considered . It is truly cruel abusive behavior that has been enforced on them in direct conflict with the acts protections . This is abuse and discrimination which is even more clear when you are aware the States AG has opposed the Federal Health care mandate under State rights while declaring Federal superiority in the case of the medical issue of medicinal Cannabis with complete disregard for State Law created by the voter initiative .

 

Without fully implementing the act in a supportive way so patients could benefit we are seeing a few hundred legislators attempting to create new law that would place tens of thousands of currently registered patients at risk of arrest stripping them of their use of a medicinal herb that is the only substance that brings them any comfort from horrendous suffering others do not even know as reality . A substance that is helping individuals deal with disease and injury not understood in our time that was previously causing premature death in many . The true experts are the patients and few are listening to them and the actual problems complying with the act in good faith or the benefits . It is so sad we have a AG role model who denies the existence of medical cannabis as reality outright without apology while people suffer and die based on legal treatment surrounding it . It is so sad we write laws and enforce them based on fears of the criminals activity prohibition has created first and not on the needs and safety of patients struggling to put this into practice treating themselves .

[CaffeineForAll]

Far too many "lawyers" that spread the old criminal law which states "any plant that has produced cotyledons, or any cutting from a plant that has produced cotyledons shall be considered a single plant"

 

The MMMA makes no statement or quantification of what constitutes a plant. So until someone gets popped for having unrooted clones, or a bunch of cut up limbs drying, and fights it to an appeals court there is no definition under the MMMA.

 

Take caution, I count my unrooted clones as plants, but I don't count my branches chopped for harvesting as plants. Use your own personal judgement in how much risk you are willing to take, and how far you are willing to fight for it.

 

Also don't count on the "community" to help you, you are basically a leper once you've been raided.

[mike44]

This is helpful but I never would of considered this necessary with individuals who are reasonable . Patients whom we know to be in compromised health should not be pursued for arrest but helped to be compliant in any first contacts with law enforcement . The Act says 2.5 ozs of cured material . To stay within my 2.50 ozs I always trim my plants down as I require supply ( I would prefer to store to create non interrupted supply and remove the fear of suffering returning to levels before this act ) . I use scissors . With my disability which has caused atrophy and prevents much exercise do to inflammation which aggravates symptoms to unbearable levels I am not active for long periods often just putting the cut pieces on a dry net or in a paper bag . Since the material is fully mature buds with little leaf I feel no threat of anyone believing these would be cuttings for clones but the courts have shown how little they know about cannabis cultivation and curing . People with none or almost no practical knowledge of medical cannabis are interpreting and enforcing the act in ways never intended by those who wrote it and were very versed in the realities that exist.

 

I will make a mental note to remove stems as soon as possible upon removal from the plant but leave a few in the net as snapping stems are how I tell the curing process is ready to take to containers and the final steps . That should cover problems but reasonable application of the law needs to take place or it is bullying . And bullying is exactly what has occurred in the King case , Bob and Torrey's case and many others around the State . These are cases which are injuring the defendants to define law which common sense should of handled . The situation is so severe patients do need further protections . We have seen that death can result from the burdens and stress placed on patients who are pushed into a criminal defense posture . Patients denied medications have suffered stroke and as well as been forced into painful withdrawals that create temporary insanity in some as punishment dealt out by medical professionals for participating in the program . While some may find they can use cannabis instead most often patients are finding they go through this forced dangerous withdrawal only to be in suicidal pain requiring treatment of the previous medication . There are few medications that were not utilized in adjunctive care with cannabis prior to 1937 . In fact few is not even correct prior to cannabis prohibition it's use did not effect the prescribing of other medication . There is no excuse for Medical practitioners to put any patients at risk of injury or suffering for participating on the program . It would seem to violate the Hippocratic Oath they took . .

 

 

Our Legislator passed a anti bullying law this past year . They understood that form of abuse we need to appeal to this line of thinking . Threats of non election are very poorly received . However Snyder admitted a dislike for bullies and that he was a victim when young . Surely we can appeal to him and others from this position and truth as cannabis users we are most definitely victims of abuse being denied work , arrested and caged for minor technical disputes involving the act , denied equal rights which includes access to normal medical care most notably adjunctive care . Many patients have had other medications discontinued without slow tapers representative of the time spent on them , inpatient care and or individual withdrawal profiles considered . It is truly cruel abusive behavior that has been enforced on them in direct conflict with the acts protections . This is abuse and discrimination which is even more clear when you are aware the States AG has opposed the Federal Health care mandate under State rights while declaring Federal superiority in the case of the medical issue of medicinal Cannabis with complete disregard for State Law created by the voter initiative .

 

Without fully implementing the act in a supportive way so patients could benefit we are seeing a few hundred legislators attempting to create new law that would place tens of thousands of currently registered patients at risk of arrest stripping them of their use of a medicinal herb that is the only substance that brings them any comfort from horrendous suffering others do not even know as reality . A substance that is helping individuals deal with disease and injury not understood in our time that was previously causing premature death in many . The true experts are the patients and few are listening to them and the actual problems complying with the act in good faith or the benefits . It is so sad we have a AG role model who denies the existence of medical cannabis as reality outright without apology while people suffer and die based on legal treatment surrounding it . It is so sad we write laws and enforce them based on fears of the criminals activity prohibition has created first and not on the needs and safety of patients struggling to put this into practice treating themselves .

 

I agree with what you are saying here, and your post is very well written and to the point. I can only hope you and others like you with good writing abilities, are communicating with the Governor and the Representatives. A letter containing the details you have posted could go a long way toward getting patients treated fairly, if the right person(s) actually read it.

This was the same point I was trying to make with my post, that patients are not being treated fairly or reasonably. The way I see it the whole point of schuettes "clearing the air" seminars was to teach law enforcement tricks and loopholes to "Bully" otherwise compliant and patients and caregivers who would normally be immune from prosecution..