Jump to content

Sativex


TheBeagle
 Share

Recommended Posts

I think this is a wonderful opportunity for patients to benefit from the therapeutic effects of the cannabinoids through an alternative method of ingestion for those uncomfortable with handling medical cannabis. I don't see this as a direct threat to herbal cannabis as there will still be people who prefer that form as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes but stuff like this will give them enough reason to keep regular cannabis illegal....now they have another excuse..." I need medical cannabis for my pain relief" ...answer.... They now have a pill that will help.... And the shiney bracelets keep snapping closed on sick patients

 

I don't see why pharmaceutical-grade cannabis-based medical extracts and other forms of herbal cannabis can't exist side by side. Clearly the social problems associated with cannabis use far surpass any negative health consequences from its use, but we have to realize that there are many other people that could likely benefit from cannabinoids that don't want anything to do with herbal cannabis; they'd much rather visit a pharmacy than a dispensary and if it's available by prescription only they'd likely only have to pay a co-pay if they had insurance. Sativex is a sublingual spray that contains a 50:50 ratio of THC:CBD as well as terpenes of undisclosed composition since it is extracted from actual cannabis plants, not artificially synthesized.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't see why pharmaceutical-grade cannabis-based medical extracts and other forms of herbal cannabis can't exist side by side. Clearly the social problems associated with cannabis use far surpass any negative health consequences from its use, but we have to realize that there are many other people that could likely benefit from cannabinoids that don't want anything to do with herbal cannabis; they'd much rather visit a pharmacy than a dispensary and if it's available by prescription only they'd likely only have to pay a co-pay if they had insurance. Sativex is a sublingual spray that contains a 50:50 ratio of THC:CBD as well as terpenes of undisclosed composition since it is extracted from actual cannabis plants, not artificially synthesized.

 

yes and when Bayer get ahold if it most likely they will put some kinda moo poo in it just like the rest of their pills and meds cause bayer has the option to produce it

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We already produce something much like Sativex when we make Simpson Oil. We have the benefit of an entourage effect with all the additional cannabinoids and terpenes present in RSO, so it could be argued that RSO is actually BETTER than Sativex in many ways. In fact, RSO could likely be delivered the same way as Sativex just by diluting it down with ethyl alcohol and putting it in spray bottles.

 

We can also tune different extracts to specific symptoms/illnesses/diseases by determining cannabinoid and terpene profiling. That's where lab testing comes in handy.

 

There is an opportunity for pharmaceutical companies to patent certain combinations of cannabinoids and terpenes, but that is the extent of the 'engineering' they can do with it when using natural compounds. Cannabis is not going away as a homemade, homegrown, open source medicine. Count on it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We already produce something much like Sativex when we make Simpson Oil. We have the benefit of an entourage effect with all the additional cannabinoids and terpenes present in RSO, so it could be argued that RSO is actually BETTER than Sativex in many ways. In fact, RSO could likely be delivered the same way as Sativex just by diluting it down with ethyl alcohol and putting it in spray bottles.

 

We can also tune different extracts to specific symptoms/illnesses/diseases by determining cannabinoid and terpene profiling. That's where lab testing comes in handy.

 

There is an opportunity for pharmaceutical companies to patent certain combinations of cannabinoids and terpenes, but that is the extent of the 'engineering' they can do with it when using natural compounds. Cannabis is not going away as a homemade, homegrown, open source medicine. Count on it.

 

Except Simpson Oil starts with any number of strains. Until tested, the THC/CBD ratio (as well as other compounds) are unknown.

 

Our own results with SO are mostly positive (still too early for me to report details but it's being used along with other compounds for Crohn's & related issues) but it would be great to have something with standardized cannabinoids etc.

 

z

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Except Simpson Oil starts with any number of strains. Until tested, the THC/CBD ratio (as well as other compounds) are unknown.

 

Our own results with SO are mostly positive (still too early for me to report details but it's being used along with other compounds for Crohn's & related issues) but it would be great to have something with standardized cannabinoids etc.

 

z

 

Of course it's always helpful to know the cannabinoid ratio, I mentioned that. That's an important piece of information to know when trying to match meds to symptoms. :thumbsu:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Of course it's always helpful to know the cannabinoid ratio, I mentioned that. That's an important piece of information to know when trying to match meds to symptoms. :thumbsu:

 

With Sativex, you're getting a known ratio and known dose that is practically guaranteed to be free of contaminants.

 

RSO will always be an option for those looking to concentrate herbal cannabis but you don't know what the ratio or dosage is and you don't know how well it's been decarboxylated (some people might want the acidic cannabinoids over the activated cannabinoids) and you don't know how much residual solvent is still present in the RSO. If there are bubbles forming in the RSO after you let it sit out, that's from residual solvent evaporation, you don't need a testing lab to demonstrate it's contaminated. Also, you don't know the quality of the input material, some people are using medical-grade buds while others may be sweeping leaves off the ground, you have to keep in mind that concentrating cannabinoids also means that you're concentrating mycotoxins, pesticide residues, and other things that most people wouldn't feel comfortable putting into their bodies. Additionally, many of the terpenes are absent from Simpson Oil as a result of using heat to drive off the solvent.

 

I'm not trying to say one is better than the other (provided that RSO is made in a contaminant-free manner) but rather that they each have a target audience.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I will always have to take a pass on Sativex. It is my personal opinion that pure, herbal Cannabis is the gold standard for Medical Marihuana. That is just my preference however, and this is from the guy who does not really even like hash.

 

The furthest I will go with the deviation from that "gold standard" is melting my trim into butter for edibles. They are great for pain, and sleep. I wonder how Sativex will compair...

 

No matter though. If I can not grow it,and process it myself, I am not interested.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here are some interesting, relevant posts from Clear (UK's Cannabis Law Reform):

 

The Truth About Sativex

The Sativex Scam part 1

The Sativex Scam part 2.5

 

 

z

 

Thanks for the links! Yes, Sativex is pharmacologically identical to herbal cannabis and comes at a higher cost. I would love for Michigan to have locally produced cannabis-based medical extracts (CBMEs) similar to what http://www.4altacalifornia.com/products.html provides in California that are made in a completely transparent manner with repeatable ratios and dosing to compete along side with Sativex. However for now, these products don't exist here in Michigan and many people in states without medical cannabis laws don't get to benefit from cannabinoid-based medicines in any manner.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

With Sativex, you're getting a known ratio and known dose that is practically guaranteed to be free of contaminants.

 

RSO will always be an option for those looking to concentrate herbal cannabis but you don't know what the ratio or dosage is and you don't know how well it's been decarboxylated (some people might want the acidic cannabinoids over the activated cannabinoids) and you don't know how much residual solvent is still present in the RSO. If there are bubbles forming in the RSO after you let it sit out, that's from residual solvent evaporation, you don't need a testing lab to demonstrate it's contaminated. Also, you don't know the quality of the input material, some people are using medical-grade buds while others may be sweeping leaves off the ground, you have to keep in mind that concentrating cannabinoids also means that you're concentrating mycotoxins, pesticide residues, and other things that most people wouldn't feel comfortable putting into their bodies. Additionally, many of the terpenes are absent from Simpson Oil as a result of using heat to drive off the solvent.

 

I'm not trying to say one is better than the other (provided that RSO is made in a contaminant-free manner) but rather that they each have a target audience.

 

Thanks for your post! I agree that mycotoxins are a concern. I think we may be well on our way of addressing that. I have been doing some hunting for peanut oil refining equipment and techniques, and cam across this:

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=FBDzbLAUYMcC&pg=PA384&lpg=PA384&dq=filtering+mycotoxins+from+peanut+oil&source=bl&ots=wrGyu1IVIi&sig=jJ0ZAqqeqbL0EZ8IbWImkRjlOlk&hl=en&sa=X&ei=OqEdT5K2OoOfgwez3uTiCw&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

Seems like a combination of activated charcoal, fuller's earth, and salt can remove many, if not all, the mycotoxins from RSO. I'd be interested to hear your take on a homebrewer's ability to effectively accomplish that using pretty common filtration/deactivation material.

 

 

 

Here are some interesting, relevant posts from Clear (UK's Cannabis Law Reform):

 

The Truth About Sativex

The Sativex Scam part 1

The Sativex Scam part 2.5

 

 

z

 

Great links! Thank you!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for your post! I agree that mycotoxins are a concern. I think we may be well on our way of addressing that. I have been doing some hunting for peanut oil refining equipment and techniques, and cam across this:

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=FBDzbLAUYMcC&pg=PA384&lpg=PA384&dq=filtering+mycotoxins+from+peanut+oil&source=bl&ots=wrGyu1IVIi&sig=jJ0ZAqqeqbL0EZ8IbWImkRjlOlk&hl=en&sa=X&ei=OqEdT5K2OoOfgwez3uTiCw&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

Seems like a combination of activated charcoal, fuller's earth, and salt can remove many, if not all, the mycotoxins from RSO. I'd be interested to hear your take on a homebrewer's ability to effectively accomplish that using pretty common filtration/deactivation material.

 

 

If people making RSO at home have access to the proper equipment, proper solvents/reagents, and proper protocols, this would greatly improve the safety of RSO. It would be nice to see a synthesized protocol for the 'best practice' method to produce RSO, including explanations of why it is important to remove the residual solvent and methods of aflatoxin/mycotoxin decontamination.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If people making RSO at home have access to the proper equipment, proper solvents/reagents, and proper protocols, this would greatly improve the safety of RSO. It would be nice to see a synthesized protocol for the 'best practice' method to produce RSO, including explanations of why it is important to remove the residual solvent and methods of aflatoxin/mycotoxin decontamination.

 

I agree and I think that's something that people like you and me can help with. :thumbsu:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share



×
×
  • Create New...