My Opinions

[TomJ]

I have been a member here since August. I have not been on here regularly until the last few weeks. I have jumped on with a question or two, that's about it. However over the last few weeks after receiving emails about bills and petitions, I have been a lot more involved. I have been reading through a number of threads here and I am starting to become more active in both voice and signing petitions etc. I have noticed that most of you here are very compassionate and passionate about what is going on and what you are doing. I love this community and look forward to be a more active member in the future.

 

Tom

[newbie313]

Pleasure to have you aboard!!!

[Medcnman]

Welcome Tom. We are glad to have you and your voice with us. Medcnman.

[The Digital Nomad]

Thank you for stop lurking ; )

 

I wish more people would stand up.

 

Do what you can, there is always something.

 

Try to make the next protest or rally sponsored by the MMMA.

 

Find a local club, they need help too.

 

Again - I never ask anyone to do what I do not do myself. I also understand that people have to balance activism with security - you and your family. At the same time, understand that the more people around you that become aware and educated - they can protect you.

 

DN

[SparklyBuds]

Welcome, Tom, glad you came out of the lurker shadows and joined us! I love this site & our community, we have disagreements but we're still family. I appreciate you coming forward to join us in the effort to preserve our law. We need all the help we can get!

[TomJ]

This is exactly what I have been doing.

 

Local clubs? I have no idea where I would find such a place where I live. I wish there was one I would join in a heartbeat. Jokeland

 

I am sickened by what goes on here they all lie, it's all about money, and they won't even give you the time of day if you aren't making $250,000.00 or better. I am sick of this county. I once loved it too.

 

I am not going to mention what I do here but I do work for some of the wealthiest people in the state. It's disgusting the influence they have over our government.

[wingnut]

Kentucky v. King, the US Supreme Court has ruled that cops who smell marijuana coming from your home can break down your door and arrest you, just as long as they knock first and claim to have heard you destroying evidence. They don’t need a warrant or probable cause, either. Today in America, police can now randomly patrol neighborhoods and apartment complexes sniffing around for pot. When they smell it, they can knock on your door and then break it down, claiming they heard noises from within. And this is the reason I served in the Armed forces? Sad state of affairs

 

 

 

[TomJ]

Wingnut you are right and they think it's cute to do so. This just happened to a friend of mine luckily they didn't break down his door he was able to answer it before they had the chance. They destroyed his plants now he is facing felony charges

[TomJ]

And from what I understand he was completely legal in what he was doing. I haven't talked to him personally about the matter.

[The Digital Nomad]

Kentucky v. King, the US Supreme Court has ruled that cops who smell marijuana coming from your home can break down your door and arrest you, just as long as they knock first and claim to have heard you destroying evidence. They don’t need a warrant or probable cause, either. Today in America, police can now randomly patrol neighborhoods and apartment complexes sniffing around for pot. When they smell it, they can knock on your door and then break it down, claiming they heard noises from within. And this is the reason I served in the Armed forces? Sad state of affairs

 

thats kentucky.

 

In Michigan LEO has to confirm that you are not a legal grower. Judges will not issue warrants based on smell, stems/trash, or FLIR - they want evidence of criminal activity. The law requires LEO to let the judge know if they discover evidence that it is a medical grow - ie - your paperwork, or card.

Stories are plenty where LEO during a stop or house visit called the prosecutor and was told to leave everything alone - it was a medical grow with the proper paperwork, secure enclosed, etc.

Here in Michigan, we advise people not to open their doors, or use a chain on the door. You do want to show your paperwork or ID card if the police are at your door, but at the same time, you do not have to let them in your house. If they had a warrant, they usually do not knock.

 

BTW, read the oath you took for the armed forces, you swore to protect this country. And this country, is its people. I believe in our country, even in our government. The problem is several businessmen have taken positions in politics that they abuse power in - you do not have owners of companies watch themselves, you do not have bankers in power to control housing and loans, you do not have politicians that are paid for by special lobby - where they no longer care about the paycheck from the people they were supposed to represent.

 

We just need to clean house, prosecute those who abuse the power of office, and get back to it.

 

DN

[The Digital Nomad]

And from what I understand he was completely legal in what he was doing. I haven't talked to him personally about the matter.

 

You'll need to talk to him personally. Again, you don't get felony charges for following the MMMAct. Even some of those who challenged parts of the MMMAct are being dismissed and overturned. Fight FUD - Fear, uncertainty, and despair with information and education.

 

DN

[wingnut]

thats kentucky.

 

In Michigan LEO has to confirm that you are not a legal grower. Judges will not issue warrants based on smell, stems/trash, or FLIR - they want evidence of criminal activity. The law requires LEO to let the judge know if they discover evidence that it is a medical grow - ie - your paperwork, or card.

Stories are plenty where LEO during a stop or house visit called the prosecutor and was told to leave everything alone - it was a medical grow with the proper paperwork, secure enclosed, etc.

Here in Michigan, we advise people not to open their doors, or use a chain on the door. You do want to show your paperwork or ID card if the police are at your door, but at the same time, you do not have to let them in your house. If they had a warrant, they usually do not knock.

 

BTW, read the oath you took for the armed forces, you swore to protect this country. And this country, is its people. I believe in our country, even in our government. The problem is several businessmen have taken positions in politics that they abuse power in - you do not have owners of companies watch themselves, you do not have bankers in power to control housing and loans, you do not have politicians that are paid for by special lobby - where they no longer care about the paycheck from the people they were supposed to represent.

 

We just need to clean house, prosecute those who abuse the power of office, and get back to it.

 

DN

 

The US Supreme Court ruled in Kentucky vs. King that the officers’ conduct “was entirely lawful,” and they were justified in breaking in to prevent the destruction of the evidence.

With our AG I would not count on The MMMP to protect you .

 

The 4th Amendment to the US Constitution plainly states:"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." Our system has become a total joke.

How is it possible that 8 out of 9 US Supreme Court Justices vote against the fundamental protections afforded to us by the Constitution? This is insane! What’s next? The chilling of free speech, no doubt.

Is it “reasonable” to violate a man’s 4th Amendment rights over a potential misdemeanor? This shows how corrupt the supreme court is, we need an electoral system for the supreme court because the judges obviously don’t care about upholding justice anymore and should be voted out. Sorry for the rant

[Medcnman]

The US Supreme Court ruled in Kentucky vs. King that the officers’ conduct “was entirely lawful,” and they were justified in breaking in to prevent the destruction of the evidence.

With our AG I would not count on The MMMP to protect you .

 

The 4th Amendment to the US Constitution plainly states:"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." Our system has become a total joke.

How is it possible that 8 out of 9 US Supreme Court Justices vote against the fundamental protections afforded to us by the Constitution? This is insane! What’s next? The chilling of free speech, no doubt.

Is it “reasonable” to violate a man’s 4th Amendment rights over a potential misdemeanor? This shows how corrupt the supreme court is, we need an electoral system for the supreme court because the judges obviously don’t care about upholding justice anymore and should be voted out. Sorry for the rant

You are well within your rights to rant, and may I say, what a good rant it was!! Well put my friend. You can rest assure that this will be brought up with my Rep meeting on Friday. All we want is what we voted for!! Leave our law alone!! Medcnman.

[wingnut]

Thank you Medcnman for all your hard work. Why the CSA is still in place when it takes away peoples constitutional rights?

I mean isn’t it against the Bill of Rights to take away peoples natural rights of liberty and property including freedom of religion, freedom of speech, a free press, free assembly, and free association, as well as the right to keep and bear arms? I find the entire CSA to be UN-constitutional under the Bill of rights.

[The Digital Nomad]

CSA still has many dangerous drugs - heroin cocaine and meth. Even pills, we just need to find a better way to regulate them.

 

DN

[Hempcheff]

dont worry, sugar is going to join the controlled substance gang soon too

 

 

Sugar as a controlled substance? What an idiotic idea

Recommending taxation or controlling the access to sugar in my opinion is idiotic. Free choice is what makes us humans. And there has not been a single example that shows that prohibition of anything works."

Read more:

http://www.foxnews.c.../#ixzz1ldJS4S00

CSA still has many dangerous drugs - heroin cocaine and meth. Even pills, we just need to find a better way to regulate them.

 

DN

[Herb Cannabis]

I have been a member here since August. I have not been on here regularly until the last few weeks. I have jumped on with a question or two, that's about it. However over the last few weeks after receiving emails about bills and petitions, I have been a lot more involved. I have been reading through a number of threads here and I am starting to become more active in both voice and signing petitions etc. I have noticed that most of you here are very compassionate and passionate about what is going on and what you are doing. I love this community and look forward to be a more active member in the future.

 

Tom

 

Your post caused me to think a little and I must say, your story is comparable to my own and hopefully many others. I hope that your post will inspire others to come out of the closet and fight back. This is a righteous law and we must fight like hell to keep it. Lets fight the good fight!

[Letterhead954]

"The US Supreme Court ruled in Kentucky vs. King that the officers’ conduct “was entirely lawful,” and they were justified in breaking in to prevent the destruction of the evidence."

What's someone going to do, flush their plants down the toilet?

[wingnut]

Ruling in the Kentucky case, the justices said that officers who smell marijuana and loudly knock on the door may break in if they hear sounds that suggest the residents are scurrying to hide the drugs.

The smell of a burning flower and the sound of “scurrying” are now the “exigent circumstances” needed to “reasonably” cross that “firm line” without a warrant.

 

If you make noise when the cops knock, police can interpret that as you attempting to hide or destroy evidence (drugs), which creates the “exigent circumstance” needed to break down your door. Which leads me to ask, what does hiding or destroying cannabis sound like? I suppose the sounds of garbage disposals, trash compactors, and flushing. Note to self and advice to others: When you’re smoking pot in your home and the cops come a-knocking’, be very, very quiet. I’m only half-kidding.

[The Digital Nomad]

BTW the officers on calls like these will not have a battering ram. If you block the door with a simple 2x4, you can hear the sound of him breaking his leg when he kicks your door.

 

DN

[semicaregiver]

 

 

In Michigan LEO has to confirm that you are not a legal grower.

 

DN,

 

I think you may have overstated the protections here in MI. There would be no reason for HB 5286 if this were true.

[The Digital Nomad]

DN,

 

I think you may have overstated the protections here in MI. There would be no reason for HB 5286 if this were true.

 

There are stories to back this up, but the stories are not consistent in all areas of the state and with all agencies.

 

I suppose they are clarifying what is already in the MMMAct

 

"(g) A person shall not be subject to arrest, prosecution, or penalty in any manner, or denied any right or privilege, including but not limited to civil penalty or disciplinary action by a business or occupational or professional licensing board or bureau, for providing a registered qualifying patient or a registered primary caregiver with marihuana paraphernalia for purposes of a qualifying patient's medical use of marihuana.

 

(h) Any marihuana, marihuana paraphernalia, or licit property that is possessed, owned, or used in connection with the medical use of marihuana, as allowed under this act, or acts incidental to such use, shall not be seized or forfeited.

 

(i) A person shall not be subject to arrest, prosecution, or penalty in any manner, or denied any right or privilege, including but not limited to civil penalty or disciplinary action by a business or occupational or professional licensing board or bureau, solely for being in the presence or vicinity of the medical use of marihuana in accordance with this act, or for assisting a registered qualifying patient with using or administering marihuana."*

 

Meaning "Cultivating, manufacturing marijuana"

 

Smart judges and prosecutors knew this. The process of raiding someone's house or even seizing medical marijuana from a vehicle or person - LEO contacts the supervisor, who I assumes is in touch with the prosecutor's office or a judge. Again, the card presents defenses as long as everyone follows the rules.

 

further -

 

") There shall be a presumption that a qualifying patient or primary caregiver is engaged in the medical use of marihuana in accordance with this act if the qualifying patient or primary caregiver:

 

(1) is in possession of a registry identification card; and

 

(2) is in possession of an amount of marihuana that does not exceed the amount allowed under this act. The presumption may be rebutted by evidence that conduct related to marihuana was not for the purpose of alleviating the qualifying patient's debilitating medical condition or symptoms associated with the debilitating medical condition,

 

the underlined section means the LEO has to tell the judge or prosecutor why he thinks the marijuana is not for medical use - ie - drug traffic, a UC buy, a snitch buying, PLAIN VIEW of a unsecured grow.

 

DN

[semicaregiver]

DN,

 

The part I had a problem with was the suggestion that "In Michigan LEO has to confirm that you are not a legal grower." They do not have to do that to get a warrant or arrest you. They do however need to stop if "you" show them a card. And, like you say, anecdotal evidence on reality goes both ways on that one.

[The Digital Nomad]

DN,

 

The part I had a problem with was the suggestion that "In Michigan LEO has to confirm that you are not a legal grower." They do not have to do that to get a warrant or arrest you. They do however need to stop if "you" show them a card. And, like you say, anecdotal evidence on reality goes both ways on that one.

 

That statement is still from procedures that LEO is supposed to follow in a drug investigation. A noise complaint where they smell marijuana is different, they act on the fly until they get all the facts in the information - like the warning sign with the MDCH phone # and the registry number, or a person showing them a card at the front door, not inside.

 

You'll need to examine those cases and see what the elements of the case were.

 

We can agree to disagree too!

 

DN

[semicaregiver]

 

 

We can agree to disagree too!

 

DN

Agreed!

 

I come from the old school perspective of don't smell, don't tell and don't sell. While I understand there are protections in the MMMA, I think we all need to remember that not every LEO wants to follow the law, and, the feds are still out there. Just ask the guys at the Russell Industrial Center. While I would suspect there could have been some folks bending the law, I think it is just as likely that there were 100% legal growers that got swept up in the raid.

 

I do not like to leave a newbie with any warm and fuzzy feelings that all is good.