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Caregivers, Patients, And Compassion


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Something has been bothering me for awhile, and I feel it's time to speak my mind. I know this has been discussed here before, but I have a different take on this matter. I don't mean to cause an arguement, but this needs to be said.

If anyone thinks we have enough caregivers to take care of all the patients, then read no further. And if we do have enough, then I'm wasting my time writing this, and wasting my time wanting to be a caregiver. However, everything I've read here tells me we don't. So how do we get more?

There is a culture here that says that the only acceptable motivation for growing and becoming a caregiver is compassion. Those who can afford to do that are to be commended, but to suggest that that is the only acceptable motivation is to guarantee a shortage of caregivers. Whenever and wherever the profit motive is ridiculed or eliminated shortages follow. Take food... we need it every day and have an abundance of it in America. We spend less money on food relative to our income than any country in the world. Does anyone imagine that it is because farmers are so compassionate? Hell no! It's because of self-interest. Their only goal is to make a living and feed their families. Their self-interest (NOT the same as greed) means that we all get to eat, every day. It's working quite well, don't you think? Basic economics and human nature tell us that if providing a product or service is profitable, more people will do it. Competition will see to it that only those who provide a good quality product or service at a reasonable price will survive. Adam Smith, who wrote 'The Wealth of Nations' back in 1776 put it this way... “It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own self-interest. We address ourselves not to their humanity but to their self-love, and never talk to them of our own necessities, but of their advantages”. Do any of us get up and go to work in the morning out of compassion? Or is it self-interest? Compassion is a wonderful thing, and this is a compassionate community. But if you think that compassion is enough for most people to spend thousands of dollars setting up a grow, spending countless hours growing, and risking prosecution and imprisonment, you're sadly mistaken.

My story is this... I've had my own business for 32 years. It's been a struggle most of the way, but in this economy it's been almost impossible to just pay my monthly bills, let alone make a living. I live modestly, yet I go further in debt each month. I am a single father, and my primary responsibility in life is to provide for myself and my daughter. Due to health problems and the fact that there are rarely any part time jobs here, I have few options. So I have decided to grow and become a caregiver. I'll say it outright... I need to make money. It's pure fantasy to think that I will be motivated to spend (credit cards actually. I have no money) over $1300 to set up my grow room, spend countless hours, and risk crop failure and prosecution purely out of the goodness of my heart. That doesn't work anywhere else. Why should it work here? Now, I'm as compassionate as the next guy. I know I will want to help poor patients as much as I can. I know what it's like to be in need. But if I'm going to be shamed and be told I'm greedy because I am doing this out of self-interest (you know, like eating, living in a house, and providing for my daughter) then is it better that I don't grow, and that fewer patients have affordable meds? I'm sick and tired of being afraid of talking to other growers about this out of a fear of being shamed or told that I'm greedy. I've been told repeatedly that I should only grow enough for myself and my future patients. That's a great goal, but if that were the case how could the Farmer's Markets exist? If not for overages, which I'm told to eliminate, how would all those patients get their meds? If I can't make any money, it would be better for me to rest and watch tv. I'm not looking to get rich at this. I merely need to suppliment my income so I can pay my bills. But if I can't make any money I'd be a fool to grow at all. I don't use a lot of mmj in a month, so it would be better for me to buy it elsewhere and let another caregiver spend their money and take all the risk.

Compassion is a wonderful thing, especially in a community of suffering people. But to suggest that it is the only acceptable motivation to provide ANY product or service not only violates human nature, but is self-defeating. If compassion were the only acceptable standard, we'd be living in the stone age.

So, what is the consensus here? Should I stop growing and not become a caregiver because my motivation is self-interest? Should I just go back to watching tv? Or should I continue, provide quality meds at a decent price, and take care of my daughter and myself? You all decide. I'm sick of feeling like I have to hide.

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So, what is the consensus here? Should I stop growing and not become a caregiver because my motivation is self-interest? Should I just go back to watching tv? Or should I continue, provide quality meds at a decent price, and take care of my daughter and myself? You all decide. I'm sick of feeling like I have to hide.

Grow for your patients and take overages to the farmers market. Patients without caregivers can have access at a fair price, and you recover growing costs. That's my 2cents

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You say that you will want to help poor patients as much as possible. This does not sound like you are doing this solely out of self interest. Of course you have to look out for your own needs, there is a difference between greed and taking care of oneself. You are the only person who knows for sure if your intentions are good, and the choice is yours alone to make. I have met you and you don't strike me as being a greedy person that would take advantage of sick people. Honestly it is a very personal decision to become a caregiver, and I don't think there are enough in the state to cover the patients we have here. I wish you good luck with whatever you decide.

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Something has been bothering me for awhile, and I feel it's time to speak my mind. I know this has been discussed here before, but I have a different take on this matter. I don't mean to cause an arguement, but this needs to be said.

If anyone thinks we have enough caregivers to take care of all the patients, then read no further. And if we do have enough, then I'm wasting my time writing this, and wasting my time wanting to be a caregiver. However, everything I've read here tells me we don't. So how do we get more?

There is a culture here that says that the only acceptable motivation for growing and becoming a caregiver is compassion. Those who can afford to do that are to be commended, but to suggest that that is the only acceptable motivation is to guarantee a shortage of caregivers. Whenever and wherever the profit motive is ridiculed or eliminated shortages follow. Take food... we need it every day and have an abundance of it in America. We spend less money on food relative to our income than any country in the world. Does anyone imagine that it is because farmers are so compassionate? Hell no! It's because of self-interest. Their only goal is to make a living and feed their families. Their self-interest (NOT the same as greed) means that we all get to eat, every day. It's working quite well, don't you think? Basic economics and human nature tell us that if providing a product or service is profitable, more people will do it. Competition will see to it that only those who provide a good quality product or service at a reasonable price will survive. Adam Smith, who wrote 'The Wealth of Nations' back in 1776 put it this way... “It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own self-interest. We address ourselves not to their humanity but to their self-love, and never talk to them of our own necessities, but of their advantages”. Do any of us get up and go to work in the morning out of compassion? Or is it self-interest? Compassion is a wonderful thing, and this is a compassionate community. But if you think that compassion is enough for most people to spend thousands of dollars setting up a grow, spending countless hours growing, and risking prosecution and imprisonment, you're sadly mistaken.

My story is this... I've had my own business for 32 years. It's been a struggle most of the way, but in this economy it's been almost impossible to just pay my monthly bills, let alone make a living. I live modestly, yet I go further in debt each month. I am a single father, and my primary responsibility in life is to provide for myself and my daughter. Due to health problems and the fact that there are rarely any part time jobs here, I have few options. So I have decided to grow and become a caregiver. I'll say it outright... I need to make money. It's pure fantasy to think that I will be motivated to spend (credit cards actually. I have no money) over $1300 to set up my grow room, spend countless hours, and risk crop failure and prosecution purely out of the goodness of my heart. That doesn't work anywhere else. Why should it work here? Now, I'm as compassionate as the next guy. I know I will want to help poor patients as much as I can. I know what it's like to be in need. But if I'm going to be shamed and be told I'm greedy because I am doing this out of self-interest (you know, like eating, living in a house, and providing for my daughter) then is it better that I don't grow, and that fewer patients have affordable meds? I'm sick and tired of being afraid of talking to other growers about this out of a fear of being shamed or told that I'm greedy. I've been told repeatedly that I should only grow enough for myself and my future patients. That's a great goal, but if that were the case how could the Farmer's Markets exist? If not for overages, which I'm told to eliminate, how would all those patients get their meds? If I can't make any money, it would be better for me to rest and watch tv. I'm not looking to get rich at this. I merely need to suppliment my income so I can pay my bills. But if I can't make any money I'd be a fool to grow at all. I don't use a lot of mmj in a month, so it would be better for me to buy it elsewhere and let another caregiver spend their money and take all the risk.

Compassion is a wonderful thing, especially in a community of suffering people. But to suggest that it is the only acceptable motivation to provide ANY product or service not only violates human nature, but is self-defeating. If compassion were the only acceptable standard, we'd be living in the stone age.

So, what is the consensus here? Should I stop growing and not become a caregiver because my motivation is self-interest? Should I just go back to watching tv? Or should I continue, provide quality meds at a decent price, and take care of my daughter and myself? You all decide. I'm sick of feeling like I have to hide.

:goodjob: Ditto on what others have said. Most of us are in the same boat or something similar. If I can give I will but not at the sake of not being able to eat first or pay my bills. You must be compassionate to yourself as well as to others. This is not greed. Those that are greedy it is so clear it screams.

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No one ever said you couldnt pay your self. As a caregiver, you are valuable. Therefore, you have every right to compensate yourself for your time in addition to your costs. As a business owner of 32 years, i'm sure you have experienced the "good times" and have probably come to expect a certain lifestyle. As our economy takes a turn, so does ones life style. No ones time is free and you shouldnt feel guilty for wanting to be compensated for it. It would be quite difficult making a healthy living on 72 plants. Im sure it could be done but it will take a large investment to do it. But as you said, your just looking to suppliment your income and that is definantly possible. I wish you well my friend. Thank you. Medcnman.

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to me, no its not a mistake, to others, yes it is.

 

 

My interpritation of what the People intended, and what the law is derived from a deeper view of the intentions. not just the simple black white of the act itself....

 

 

Saying this brings me much evil eye, but bottom line, as a Pt that grows for myself, If i have a good harvest, i should be able to offer my overages same as any CG with an assigned Pt. and be compensated for it. that is how i Fully interpret the Act. A CG can get compensation, means ANY CG, that is taking care of a PT that is Utilizing Cannabis as meds. Notice the part about compensation, doesnt assert the compensation must be from an assigned Pt, only A Pt. this crosses over to the Patient that is a self grower in my opinion.

 

also its my opinion, that a caregiver does not need to be even a MMJ caregiver to aquire meds for any of their patients that are utilizing cannabis for meds. as a Caregiver, regardless of it being a live in medical caregiver, a wife or husband, or a paid medical caregiver that visits 3 times a week, they are all caregivers for that same pt that utilized cannabis, and any of them should be able to ensure the pt can have an uninterupted supply of meds, and each should be able to be compensated for the time and money it took to get that patient their meds. That is not to say anyone can grow or hold on to meds for them, only acquire and be sure the pt has the meds. and be compensated. to Grow and hold overages in reserve, you must be an Assinged CG. but that is about Growing and holding, not acquiring and transfering.

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to me, no its not a mistake, to others, yes it is.

 

 

My interpritation of what the People intended, and what the law is derived from a deeper view of the intentions. not just the simple black white of the act itself....

 

 

Saying this brings me much evil eye, but bottom line, as a Pt that grows for myself, If i have a good harvest, i should be able to offer my overages same as any CG with an assigned Pt. and be compensated for it. that is how i Fully interpret the Act. A CG can get compensation, means ANY CG, that is taking care of a PT that is Utilizing Cannabis as meds. Notice the part about compensation, doesnt assert the compensation must be from an assigned Pt, only A Pt. this crosses over to the Patient that is a self grower in my opinion.

OH hell no not me no evil eyes coming from this direction! I totally agree and have posted such here. I was saying mistake as in the current law. Wishful thinking something had changed I didn't know about. :)

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i understand you position Restless, i was just clearing my position for those that read it, see im a Mod, and think my opine is the Law. I believe my opine is the Exact intent of the voters, and i believe the State Court of Appeals would uphold my opine per our 08 MMM Act, but it is just my opine, and i wanted that to be clear, that is was even just mine, and not that of the 3MA because im a Mod here.

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:thumbsu:

i understand you position Restless, i was just clearing my position for those that read it, see im a Mod, and think my opine is the Law. I believe my opine is the Exact intent of the voters, and i believe the State Court of Appeals would uphold my opine per our 08 MMM Act, but it is just my opine, and i wanted that to be clear, that is was even just mine, and not that of the 3MA because im a Mod here.

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Im sorry but I cannot bring myself to agree with this. I completely agree a caregiver should be compensated in full for every material item that is required to produce high quality meds, and even to a certain extent your time, but this law was not intended to boost the job market it was passed so people who really need these meds can legaly get them. Really if prices were truly based on the growers expenses shouldnt prices drop everytime a piece of equiptment is paid off thru transfer of meds. At a point all the majors are paid off and you just have the weeklys. Now if you need to turn profit to make your room the best it can be or something new & better then by all means do, Im just sayin at some point equiptment becomes an asset.

As far as the comparison of mmj to standard agriculture what your not thinking of is the inspection process that we dont have. Anyone who qualifies can become a caregiver on paper but really, you dont just get up one day and decide your gonna grow pot and make a living at it, you need to know that you are able to produce meds of good quality, clean, bug free meds. If we dont find a way to regulate ourselves, the man will find a way to bring us down!

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Im sorry but I cannot bring myself to agree with this. I completely agree a caregiver should be compensated in full for every material item that is required to produce high quality meds, and even to a certain extent your time, but this law was not intended to boost the job market it was passed so people who really need these meds can legaly get them. Really if prices were truly based on the growers expenses shouldnt prices drop everytime a piece of equiptment is paid off thru transfer of meds. At a point all the majors are paid off and you just have the weeklys. Now if you need to turn profit to make your room the best it can be or something new & better then by all means do, Im just sayin at some point equiptment becomes an asset.

As far as the comparison of mmj to standard agriculture what your not thinking of is the inspection process that we dont have. Anyone who qualifies can become a caregiver on paper but really, you dont just get up one day and decide your gonna grow pot and make a living at it, you need to know that you are able to produce meds of good quality, clean, bug free meds. If we dont find a way to regulate ourselves, the man will find a way to bring us down!

if DTE accepted rainbows and unicorns for payment I'd agree with you. till then I can't

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I have to disagree with you I believe you are so way off base.The prices don't rise because new equipment needs to be bought why should they go down in price once they are paid for. No one would be a caregiver for long if they did not have quality meds to offer unless they were in this because they are no better then a drug dealer and that is the type of so called patients they are growing for. This man is talking about being compensated to supply patients who don't grow for themselves and need the Caregivers, who btw majority do not ask some huge amount of money for all the hard work it takes to do this, you seem to be so down on. This is medical marjuna not street drugs or just homegrown.

 

I would like to ask this of you. Please set yourself up as a caregiver and in 6 months come back to this thread and post again.

 

Im sorry but I cannot bring myself to agree with this. I completely agree a caregiver should be compensated in full for every material item that is required to produce high quality meds, and even to a certain extent your time, but this law was not intended to boost the job market it was passed so people who really need these meds can legaly get them. Really if prices were truly based on the growers expenses shouldnt prices drop everytime a piece of equiptment is paid off thru transfer of meds. At a point all the majors are paid off and you just have the weeklys. Now if you need to turn profit to make your room the best it can be or something new & better then by all means do, Im just sayin at some point equiptment becomes an asset.

As far as the comparison of mmj to standard agriculture what your not thinking of is the inspection process that we dont have. Anyone who qualifies can become a caregiver on paper but really, you dont just get up one day and decide your gonna grow pot and make a living at it, you need to know that you are able to produce meds of good quality, clean, bug free meds. If we dont find a way to regulate ourselves, the man will find a way to bring us down!

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I said I agree you should be able to pay dte and any other expenses, and I do and always have produced my own meds but I consider myself a patient/caregiver, I consider myself to be partially compensated by being able to produce my own meds that alone saved me big money, so why not work as a team of 6 instead of 5 patients and 1 caregiver, everybody wins, nothing is free, trust me I dont run around in a toto sprinkling ferry dust on pillows but I have seen this thing evolve from the beginning from just bein happy to be legal to how much can I make off this guys back pain. As these small groups of like minded people merge small communities are born, & the people have a strong voice because they are all on the same plane.

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Im sorry but I cannot bring myself to agree with this. I completely agree a caregiver should be compensated in full for every material item that is required to produce high quality meds, and even to a certain extent your time, but this law was not intended to boost the job market it was passed so people who really need these meds can legaly get them. Really if prices were truly based on the growers expenses shouldnt prices drop everytime a piece of equiptment is paid off thru transfer of meds. At a point all the majors are paid off and you just have the weeklys. Now if you need to turn profit to make your room the best it can be or something new & better then by all means do, Im just sayin at some point equiptment becomes an asset.

As far as the comparison of mmj to standard agriculture what your not thinking of is the inspection process that we dont have. Anyone who qualifies can become a caregiver on paper but really, you dont just get up one day and decide your gonna grow pot and make a living at it, you need to know that you are able to produce meds of good quality, clean, bug free meds. If we dont find a way to regulate ourselves, the man will find a way to bring us down!

How many farmers pay off a combine before they buy a new one? Technology is constantly changing. If your not keeping up, neither will your meds. Now I do understand that a good combine can run upwards of $300,000. But its all relative. In the three years that I have been a CG, i have spent a total of nearly $30,000 on things related to growing for my patients. And that doesnt include gas expenses, vehicle maintenance and such. I have yet to see it all come back. Not even close I might add. For the most part, I cover expenses. I stay alive. Its not a glamourous lifestyle. Medcnman.

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:thumbsu: Well if you do good you have about $35.00 to $40.00 per Oz. and the first compassion club i went to was chargeing $20+ a Gram and had 1 bud trender you could get an Oz. for $400.00 + depending on how good the Med's were.... :growl:

To me they were out and out THIEFS :growl:

You've been dealing with the wrong people.

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I said I agree you should be able to pay dte and any other expenses, and I do and always have produced my own meds but I consider myself a patient/caregiver, I consider myself to be partially compensated by being able to produce my own meds that alone saved me big money, so why not work as a team of 6 instead of 5 patients and 1 caregiver, everybody wins, nothing is free, trust me I dont run around in a toto sprinkling ferry dust on pillows but I have seen this thing evolve from the beginning from just bein happy to be legal to how much can I make off this guys back pain. As these small groups of like minded people merge small communities are born, & the people have a strong voice because they are all on the same plane.

Well why didn't you say that to begin with?

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i dont know where you guys are from but im up near the tip of the mit and im telling you the prices this fellow is talking about are very true up here. There is a "compassion" club in Kalkaska, downtown, 20 for a gram is cheap there, these are the prices im battleing up here. The clubs up here are crazy,some of the meds arent bad but nuthin less than 10 a gram, when I confront these people they tell me exactly what i hear here. I cant see anything above 225 a z needed to cover cost. I mean really bb $30,000? I hope that included a building

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Something has been bothering me for awhile, and I feel it's time to speak my mind. I know this has been discussed here before, but I have a different take on this matter. I don't mean to cause an arguement, but this needs to be said.

If anyone thinks we have enough caregivers to take care of all the patients, then read no further. And if we do have enough, then I'm wasting my time writing this, and wasting my time wanting to be a caregiver. However, everything I've read here tells me we don't. So how do we get more?

There is a culture here that says that the only acceptable motivation for growing and becoming a caregiver is compassion. Those who can afford to do that are to be commended, but to suggest that that is the only acceptable motivation is to guarantee a shortage of caregivers. Whenever and wherever the profit motive is ridiculed or eliminated shortages follow. Take food... we need it every day and have an abundance of it in America. We spend less money on food relative to our income than any country in the world. Does anyone imagine that it is because farmers are so compassionate? Hell no! It's because of self-interest. Their only goal is to make a living and feed their families. Their self-interest (NOT the same as greed) means that we all get to eat, every day. It's working quite well, don't you think? Basic economics and human nature tell us that if providing a product or service is profitable, more people will do it. Competition will see to it that only those who provide a good quality product or service at a reasonable price will survive. Adam Smith, who wrote 'The Wealth of Nations' back in 1776 put it this way... “It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own self-interest. We address ourselves not to their humanity but to their self-love, and never talk to them of our own necessities, but of their advantages”. Do any of us get up and go to work in the morning out of compassion? Or is it self-interest? Compassion is a wonderful thing, and this is a compassionate community. But if you think that compassion is enough for most people to spend thousands of dollars setting up a grow, spending countless hours growing, and risking prosecution and imprisonment, you're sadly mistaken.

My story is this... I've had my own business for 32 years. It's been a struggle most of the way, but in this economy it's been almost impossible to just pay my monthly bills, let alone make a living. I live modestly, yet I go further in debt each month. I am a single father, and my primary responsibility in life is to provide for myself and my daughter. Due to health problems and the fact that there are rarely any part time jobs here, I have few options. So I have decided to grow and become a caregiver. I'll say it outright... I need to make money. It's pure fantasy to think that I will be motivated to spend (credit cards actually. I have no money) over $1300 to set up my grow room, spend countless hours, and risk crop failure and prosecution purely out of the goodness of my heart. That doesn't work anywhere else. Why should it work here? Now, I'm as compassionate as the next guy. I know I will want to help poor patients as much as I can. I know what it's like to be in need. But if I'm going to be shamed and be told I'm greedy because I am doing this out of self-interest (you know, like eating, living in a house, and providing for my daughter) then is it better that I don't grow, and that fewer patients have affordable meds? I'm sick and tired of being afraid of talking to other growers about this out of a fear of being shamed or told that I'm greedy. I've been told repeatedly that I should only grow enough for myself and my future patients. That's a great goal, but if that were the case how could the Farmer's Markets exist? If not for overages, which I'm told to eliminate, how would all those patients get their meds? If I can't make any money, it would be better for me to rest and watch tv. I'm not looking to get rich at this. I merely need to suppliment my income so I can pay my bills. But if I can't make any money I'd be a fool to grow at all. I don't use a lot of mmj in a month, so it would be better for me to buy it elsewhere and let another caregiver spend their money and take all the risk.

Compassion is a wonderful thing, especially in a community of suffering people. But to suggest that it is the only acceptable motivation to provide ANY product or service not only violates human nature, but is self-defeating. If compassion were the only acceptable standard, we'd be living in the stone age.

So, what is the consensus here? Should I stop growing and not become a caregiver because my motivation is self-interest? Should I just go back to watching tv? Or should I continue, provide quality meds at a decent price, and take care of my daughter and myself? You all decide. I'm sick of feeling like I have to hide.

 

Well said, your statement reflects the conundrum most of us have faced at sometime or another.

Being on a fixed income I can not afford to pay the electric bill if I do not receive some compensation for my expenditures. If I had millions that would be a different story.

Keep this in mind: If one has a good paying job and meets all of his/her needs and becomes a caregiver for shear profit that is greed.

The person that is trying to make ends meet and wants to provide quality meds for a decent donation is one that does not fit the for profit model.

Those here that know me would tell you that I often gave meds away for free. That is until mold attacked my supply and wiped it all out! I took the loss and sent everything to the compost pile.

Got some really happy worms now :)

I say do not feel guilty about wanting to supplement your income. Hopefully when your economic situation turns around you would consider taking on a patient that is truly indignant.

Edited by Fat Freddy
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i dont know where you guys are from but im up near the tip of the mit and im telling you the prices this fellow is talking about are very true up here. There is a "compassion" club in Kalkaska, downtown, 20 for a gram is cheap there, these are the prices im battleing up here. The clubs up here are crazy,some of the meds arent bad but nuthin less than 10 a gram, when I confront these people they tell me exactly what i hear here. I cant see anything above 225 a z needed to cover cost. I mean really bb $30,000? I hope that included a building

I can see those prices. locally folks want 300 and up IF you get a full oz. I can go south 30 minutes and get better deals or farther south and do a bit better yet. Im sure the cost up north, like everything, is about 30% more give or take.

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i dont know where you guys are from but im up near the tip of the mit and im telling you the prices this fellow is talking about are very true up here. There is a "compassion" club in Kalkaska, downtown, 20 for a gram is cheap there, these are the prices im battleing up here. The clubs up here are crazy,some of the meds arent bad but nuthin less than 10 a gram, when I confront these people they tell me exactly what i hear here. I cant see anything above 225 a z needed to cover cost. I mean really bb $30,000? I hope that included a building

It wasn't BB that made that quote. It was me. Yes. I have bought the best I could buy. I have changed my set up a few times and once again. Bought the best I could buy. Unfortunately, it wasnt till my 3 setup change, did I find it much easier and cheaper to build everything myself. I am beginning to see a couple bucks come back each month but with last months clone failure, it went right back out the window because nothing will be coming in to cover costs of what went out. It takes alot more than you think. Northern prices are much higher. Nothin I can do about that. I'm not up there. Medcnman.

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